Atlas may have used the financial end as the plausible excuse.
If I were attempting to moderate those forums, I would have grown tired of them--at least the HO one--long ago. Considering some posts were even pretty much asking Atlas to shut down the forum, it seems they decided this is a "convenient" time.
Money-wise Atlas will be just fine. Atlas has faced challenges before and has remained one of the best companies. They are shifting at least some of their production to Bowser's builder in China, who has stated they have plenty of capacity to build trains for both Bowser and Atlas. From what I've been told the builder just bought plenty of additional pad printing machines to handle the Atlas business.
John
cmrproducts riogrande5761: Baloney, That is a symptom of the modeling community at large and not a problem of Atlas forums in particular. I have been a member of Atlas since it's earliest days in 1994 and personally I think this is a symptom of the poor economic conditions of the hobby and possibly Atlas too. If Atlas cannot continue to maintain it's forums, which was IMO an ambassador of good will and good PR to the model RR community, then they must hurting financially. (snip) I too believe that Atlas maybe having money problems! They had announced that they are having track supply problems currently and in 2010 they had problems supplying turnouts for most of the year. Our Club has 6 of the MP15 Sound engines still on back order for almost 2 years now - We did receive the Non-Sound units we had ordered. This thing with having to pre-order engines and cars is, I Believe, not going as well as THEY had hoped and the longer the delays become makes many less ready to PRE-Order anything else as they (like my Club) are unhappy about having to wait for over 2 years for a simple MP15 switcher. Now with them saying they are trying to save money - sure indicates the current business climate is not as good as most are trying to make it sound! I am involved with a Hobby Shop and I can see the problem slowly turning away NEW Modelers as the LACK of availability of Engines and Cars in specific roads - being SOLD-OUT. While the business model of only building to Pre-Orders is ONLY taking into consideration current Modelers! What about any NEW Modelers (as those now finding time to begin or get back into Model Railroading). They just may want some of the engines that are now ALL SOLD-OUT - never to be run again! YES - they can try and find the stuff on e-Bay but now their COST is much higher and it is turning NUBEs away. This environment of just building to those into the Hobby NOW and not thinking of Future NEW Modelers is a sure fire way to go out of business! YMMV ;-) BOB H - Clarion, PA
riogrande5761: Baloney, That is a symptom of the modeling community at large and not a problem of Atlas forums in particular. I have been a member of Atlas since it's earliest days in 1994 and personally I think this is a symptom of the poor economic conditions of the hobby and possibly Atlas too. If Atlas cannot continue to maintain it's forums, which was IMO an ambassador of good will and good PR to the model RR community, then they must hurting financially. (snip)
Baloney,
That is a symptom of the modeling community at large and not a problem of Atlas forums in particular.
I have been a member of Atlas since it's earliest days in 1994 and personally I think this is a symptom of the poor economic conditions of the hobby and possibly Atlas too.
If Atlas cannot continue to maintain it's forums, which was IMO an ambassador of good will and good PR to the model RR community, then they must hurting financially. (snip)
I too believe that Atlas maybe having money problems!
They had announced that they are having track supply problems currently and in 2010 they had problems supplying turnouts for most of the year.
Our Club has 6 of the MP15 Sound engines still on back order for almost 2 years now - We did receive the Non-Sound units we had ordered.
This thing with having to pre-order engines and cars is, I Believe, not going as well as THEY had hoped and the longer the delays become makes many less ready to PRE-Order anything else as they (like my Club) are unhappy about having to wait for over 2 years for a simple MP15 switcher.
Now with them saying they are trying to save money - sure indicates the current business climate is not as good as most are trying to make it sound!
I am involved with a Hobby Shop and I can see the problem slowly turning away NEW Modelers as the LACK of availability of Engines and Cars in specific roads - being SOLD-OUT.
While the business model of only building to Pre-Orders is ONLY taking into consideration current Modelers!
What about any NEW Modelers (as those now finding time to begin or get back into Model Railroading).
They just may want some of the engines that are now ALL SOLD-OUT - never to be run again!
YES - they can try and find the stuff on e-Bay but now their COST is much higher and it is turning NUBEs away.
This environment of just building to those into the Hobby NOW and not thinking of Future NEW Modelers is a sure fire way to go out of business!
YMMV ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Atlas may or may not be tightening their belt a bit, but I do believe Bob that you are right about the effect of the preorder system on the hobby, new people in particular.
With some sense of being able to aquire all or most of the critical elements, who in their right mind would get into this or any other hobby?
Those of you who approach the hobby from the more casual "train collecting" point of view likely don't understand this, but those of us with specific modeling goals have plan. Having some sense that we will be able to secure the elements needed for that plan is an important step in that kind of plan.
Atlas makes (imports) very nice locos and rolling stock, and I have been in this hobby long before Atlas was in the loco/rolling stock business. But guess what - there are only 4 pieces of Atlas rolling stock on my railroad and NO Atlas locos. Why you ask?
Well, very few of their loco offerings are in my era, BUT I have never persued the ones that are because of the limited supply/preorder situation. My modeling theme requires multiple copies of most locos for MU sets, and to get the big railroad "fleet" feel. Getting 6 Atlas GP7's undecorated is a chore, getting six Proto GP7's undecorated was easy peasy lemon squeezy.
So was getting a long list of other Proto2000 first generation diesels, so Atlas missed out on a lot of my business.
I said it years ago and was laughed at, and told how it was the only way these companies could make these "prototype specific" models and how it was the wave of the future. It's the future all right, a future without a model train industry.
I'm 54 and now have 95% of the stuff I want for my layout - it is the new guy who will not get serious about this hobby and will not progress to the next level because it will be impossible to build the layout theme he is interested in, and thereby he will spend less money, eventually loosing all interest.
ANY industry has to actually have product to sell if they expect people to buy it.
For seven years I sold MATCO TOOLS, having the tools ON THE TRUCK was the secret to success, nobody wanted to wait a week, let alone months or years.
At some point, this industry will have to face this, the only question will be how much damage has been done to the potential market in the mean time.
But what do I know? I've only been in the business of selling stuff since I was 14, I've sold trains, other hobbies, electronics, tools, construction services, tractor parts, automotive service.........
One other unrelated point, I understand how much some of you enjoy these forums, but I would really love to see some numbers as to what percentage of modelers participate. In other words, Atlas has lets say 100,000 customers, how many of them were on their forum, follow them on facebook, etc.
I'll bet $100 to a doughnut that less than 10% of the people in this hobby use/follow forums or social media as it relates to the hobby. Why do I say that? Of all the modelers I know in the flesh, most do NOT follow this or any forum, nor do they use social media.
So the forums may be a "good will" gesture, but not one that reaches most of their customer base.
Sounds like a bad advertising investment to me.
Sheldon
I regularily read 3 forums daily, sometimes two or three times. Atlas, MR and Train orders. all three serve their purpose and present different views and ideas. I hate to see Atlas go, remembering a time years ago when I kept bugging Atlas for a certain Santa Fe diesel, and eventually they produced it. At that time, I received one of the first ones "off the line" from Atlas as a gift. Lately I have spent less reading time on Atlas because of a few individuals on that forum who were obviously raised in a barn, not a home. However, I can find the same ones on this forum and on Train Orders, so what the heck.
Somehow Altas's announcement, along with XactRail attempting to rewrite the hobby to their specs does bother me and cause concern for the future of the hobby. On the other hand, have been in HO since late 50's and was in Lionel before that so I can "skip" the China syndrome and have plenty of equipment to operate and then let my wife sell it off when I die.
Bob
Good riddance to the Atlas Forum!
While I will concede it once was a source of useful information, over the past couple years at least the HO forum has degenerated into a place for whining and moaning. Those high posting individuals are too ignorant to realize how much they don't know, have lobbied for ever more highly detailed models that now they don't want to pay for (what a shock! like we couldn't see that coming), and have likely done more to hurt this hobby and drive others away than anyone else has ever done. Don't even try to provide them factual information and real manufacturing cost estimates--they won't accept them at all but instead argue "Kadee builds it here so why can't everyone else". Finally, several of the high posting members don't even have a layout--so why should anyone listen to their product evaluations anyway?
BRAKIE Bob,While I agree with most of what you said, I don't think Atlas is hurting after all they bought Branchlines line of cars and Walthers O Scale buildings.We can't overlook that. If one rereads the explanation Atlas gave for the forum's closure slowly and closely the true reason is there.
Bob,While I agree with most of what you said, I don't think Atlas is hurting after all they bought Branchlines line of cars and Walthers O Scale buildings.We can't overlook that.
If one rereads the explanation Atlas gave for the forum's closure slowly and closely the true reason is there.
BRAKIE
What Atlas says is true - they are also going to have CASH flow problems - Period!
You have to have PRODUCT to sell - if you don't NO CASH
They spent a lot of bucks in the Branchline cars and it will take a while to get China up to speed on those (a year or more) to get more stuff out there.
More CASH Flow problems while this is happening.
The EXPENSES keep on coming in (Elect, Wages, Taxes, etc.) no matter if you are not spending any money paying for stuff to arrive from China (been there) !
And where do we cut back - where ever we can.
We begin to NOT release NEW Cars & Engines as fast we we could etc.
Now the Cash flow is getting worse as NO ONE is buying anything as there is NOTHING to sell - REMEMBER - we ONLY build to ORDERS!
So we have to cut back a little more - More Cash Flow problems and it continues till we are no longer able to keep the doors OPEN!
Again I can speak from experience on this!
This current method os economics is not going to keep the doors open!
You can't make MONEY on NO STOCK/SOLD OUT!
cmrproducts I too believe that Atlas maybe having money problems! They had announced that they are having track supply problems currently and in 2010 they had problems supplying turnouts for most of the year.
This may be the whole problem. I went to my LHS last week to buy some Atlas flex-track. I was told I was in luck, because the day before he'd gotten one box from his supplier, but he was told that's the last he'd see until October. Atlas is shifting track manufacturing from one Chinese factory to another, but in the process they will lose many months of production. I'd imagine that track is a significant part of their revenue stream, so they will have cash-flow problems this year.
It may be that they've made the choice to shut down the forum rather than lay off employees. If that's the case, I'd agree with the decision.
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riogrande5761 Baloney, That is a symptom of the modeling community at large and not a problem of Atlas forums in particular. I have been a member of Atlas since it's earliest days in 1994 and personally I think this is a symptom of the poor economic conditions of the hobby and possibly Atlas too. If Atlas cannot continue to maintain it's forums, which was IMO an ambassador of good will and good PR to the model RR community, then they must hurting financially. (snip)
selector jeffrey-wimberly: No problem for me. I don't go there much anyway. Too many guys there who pick fights over nit-picky stuff for my taste. Should we worry that they may decide to come here? Crandell
jeffrey-wimberly: No problem for me. I don't go there much anyway. Too many guys there who pick fights over nit-picky stuff for my taste.
No problem for me. I don't go there much anyway. Too many guys there who pick fights over nit-picky stuff for my taste.
Should we worry that they may decide to come here?
Crandell
I been on the Atlas forum since 2002-I join here first then Atlas- and that is a yes/no/maybe type of question.
You see there are lots of knowledgeable modelers on that forum that never took part in the bashing,trashing and bickering..Those would make excellent members..
I would hate to see the few bad apples migrate here.
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riogrande5761 selector: jeffrey-wimberly: No problem for me. I don't go there much anyway. Too many guys there who pick fights over nit-picky stuff for my taste. Should we worry that they may decide to come here? Crandell I find it sad how arogant some people are on this topic. For starters, quite a few hobbiests have been on mulitple forums for years, including here, Atlas and others. I too have been a member here for a few years and Atlas since the beginning in 1994. Yes, there have been some negative people at Atlas, but IMO, that is a sypmtom of the hobby, not any one place. Atlas never had a staff of volunteer moderators to help clean things up, and thats probably why this forums apears to be a little more positive - not because it is somehow just a holy place. I like this forum too and will rely more heavily on it now that Atlas is too feeble to maintain their forums anymore. Some comment on how this will give them more time in their basements. Well, some of us don't have space for a Model Railroad so we rely on forums for periods of time to enjoy the hobby until the day we are as fortunate as y'all to have a layout to work on again. Anyway, I will miss Atlas, it has been a part of my life for 18 years.
selector: jeffrey-wimberly: No problem for me. I don't go there much anyway. Too many guys there who pick fights over nit-picky stuff for my taste. Should we worry that they may decide to come here? Crandell
I find it sad how arogant some people are on this topic. For starters, quite a few hobbiests have been on mulitple forums for years, including here, Atlas and others. I too have been a member here for a few years and Atlas since the beginning in 1994. Yes, there have been some negative people at Atlas, but IMO, that is a sypmtom of the hobby, not any one place. Atlas never had a staff of volunteer moderators to help clean things up, and thats probably why this forums apears to be a little more positive - not because it is somehow just a holy place. I like this forum too and will rely more heavily on it now that Atlas is too feeble to maintain their forums anymore.
Some comment on how this will give them more time in their basements. Well, some of us don't have space for a Model Railroad so we rely on forums for periods of time to enjoy the hobby until the day we are as fortunate as y'all to have a layout to work on again.
Anyway, I will miss Atlas, it has been a part of my life for 18 years.
I agree, it was a rhetorical question. We should count ourselves lucky to get many of them, and hope that Atlas regains some composure soon. It can't be a good sign for the hobby if Atlas is having to cut off it's forum outreach.
All I can say is to any of those joining us here that are new to our site or returning after being away at that "other" site...
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
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Odie They were probably tired of the incessant whining from certain rivet counters over there. Or, they couldn't take the heat on quality issues from the customers any more (read: newest HO intermodal car set).
They were probably tired of the incessant whining from certain rivet counters over there. Or, they couldn't take the heat on quality issues from the customers any more (read: newest HO intermodal car set).
I have been a member of Atlas since it's earliest days in 1994 and personally I think this is a symptom of the poor economic conditions of the hobby and possibly Atlas too. If Atlas cannot continue to maintain it's forums, which was IMO an ambassador of good will and good PR to the model RR community, then they must hurting financially. The forums have always made me feel much better about Atlas and their products and kept me more informed of them. Now they will be dropping off my Radar - and no, I don't give a hoot following them on facebook and twitter.
This is an end of an 18 year run and a bitter shame. I hope Atlas recovers enough financially in a few years to revive the forums. To me that will be a sign of them becoming more healthy again.
Not at all, we have some excellent moderators here and I can't see where there will be any serious issue or problem. I can remember a number of years ago where there were some rather pointed and rude comments on this forum, but those days seem to be gone.
We have a lot of veterans here that always seem to find the right words to correct an inappropriate response and if that doesn't work then our moderators kick it up a notch.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
Probably not ....
Mark.
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jeffrey-wimberly No problem for me. I don't go there much anyway. Too many guys there who pick fights over nit-picky stuff for my taste.
I checked out the Atlas site a few times. I found that there were a few members who were somewhat offensive in that if any one disgreed with their point of view or opinion they were outraged.
There were also a few members who thought that any brand other than Atlas was not worth buying and you were a fool if you did.
Unfortunately, with the Atlas forum closing they will be looking for a new home.
I never really used it, but it did seem like every time I did a search regarding N scale...that's where Google was leading me.
To me, this is kind of similar to news that the library in the next town burned to the ground. I never used it, but I feel sorry for those that did, and for the loss of that store of information - some of which may be unique or difficult to replace.
As for farcebook and other social sites, they've stopped sending me invitations to join - which has reduced wear on my delete button. And, again in my not very humble opinion, the short form of Twitter is ... you guessed it! (just replace the two Es in tweet with an I.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - when not writing novels)
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Actually, after the first "discovery" of online forums in general, I have become less interested in them, only spending time on them when I am "trapped" in my home office and unable to escape to the train room or garage to actually do something.
Actually, after the first "discovery" of online forums in general, I have become less interested in them, only spending time on them when I am "trapped" in my home office and unable to escape to the train room or garage to actually do something.
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Atlas had a forum? It won't be missed here at my house. But I spend less and less time on this sort of thing anyway.
I use Atlas track, buy some of their other products, rolling stock, etc, and hope they do good things with the Branchline rolling stock, but very few of their locos are in my era, so they are not on my radar much for locos - in fact I don't have even one Atlas loco.
The manufacturer run forums seem to have a few pit falls, so its no surprise to me.
I can understand how some are disappointed with this news about Atlas. However, there is no reason why this forum can't pick up the slack....we can be as informative as they were.
I never signed up at Atlas but I would occasionally pop over and read through some threads, so I wont really miss it, but anytime you lose a site that has as much info on it as the Atlas forums did it's always a sad thing.
This is a true pity. The Atlas N-scale Forum was clearly the best, most informative of the alternatives. I for one will miss it.
I've never used the Atlas forum so it won't be missed by me. However, it does make me appreciate what Kalmbach Publishing provides us modelers on this site. I'm very pleased with this forum and consider it one of the best I've seen.
I really enjoyed the Atlas forum and hate to see it close. They have good HO products but don't have a lot of new items that fit my era or my pocket book.
Gale
BLI pulled the plug on their forum last year. However, they shut their's down for different reasons.
It does cost money for the host for servers, storage space, and management.
Tom
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WRGMILW I guess i will have more time to work on the layouts ! They say that cost of the forums is alot. . They say that money will be spent on more R&D . Hopefully that means moving production to the USA ! ? I will miss the Atlas forums.
I guess i will have more time to work on the layouts !
They say that cost of the forums is alot. . They say that money will be spent on more R&D .
Hopefully that means moving production to the USA ! ?
I will miss the Atlas forums.
Typically, R&D means "research and development". Of new products or processes, generally.
Production will only move to the USA when it becomes cost-effective to do so: Chinese laborers demand higher wages, the cost of shipping to / from China becomes too high, high unemployment in the US drives down wages and increases incentives, some combination of the above, or something no one has foreseen, could do it, but not a company spending more on R&D.
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