At this point I will shutdown this topic as "Atlas Model Railroad Co. Inc." is an important manufacture of our hobby and we don't want any reactions to this to be seen as negative to them being posted here.
Again, we any new members that might join us here due to this news and look forward to your contributions to existing a new topics you or others might start.
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
My Blog
Personally I have been a member of Atlas for a few years before I came on this forum. I like both of them for different reasons and I hate to see Atlas close. Until the last few months, Atlas was a nice place to be and then certain "loudmouths" took over. I hardly posted on it the past several months, just read it.
I do "recognize" several Atlas members that are also on this forum by the posts they make, don't need a name. So this forum has already been infiltrated.
Bob
Hi!
While I am very sorry to see the Atlas (and some other) boards close up, that just makes me appreciate this Forum that much more. Thank you Kalmbach!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I have two reactions to this thread after reading through all of these responses.
One, I refuse to believe that Atlas shut down its forum for financial reasons. There is no way that Atlas is in dire financial straits, and, if it is, then other manufacturers like Bachmann have to be in trouble as well. In my view, Atlas shut down the forum as a sign of the times. Manufacturers of model railroading equipment have no real vested interest in maintaining forums whether the forum membership behavior is civil or not. The reason that this forum survives is that its benefactor, Kalmbach, is all about communication rather than production. Kalmbach does have a vested interest in promoting discussion about the hobby to ensure continued readership of its magazines and books. But, that is not to say that Kalmbach couldn't pull the plug on its forum. That would be an absolute shame because the quality of advice here is unsurpassed by any other forum except for the highly technical forums like NCE DCC and Wiring for DCC.
Two, fears of an invasion of this forum by flame throwing nut cases from another forum is silly. I have been a member of the Atlas forum for years, and I am sure that there are more than a few Atlas members that are members of this forum too. Once Atlas shuts down its forum in a few days, the Atlas members will scatter to the four winds. I just don't see this forum deteriorating due to an influx of Atlas members looking for trouble. One thing that makes this forum successful, over and above its moderators who do a great job of keeping things civil and on topic, is that the forum is intelligently organized into appropriate categories of interest. Questions get asked, questions get answered. Issues are debated and, for the most part, resolved. As far as prior flame wars on these forums go, I have been a member since 2004, and while there have been some rather unfortunate threads over that time, I honestly don't recall any period in which overall forum behavior got out of hand.
I can only say, in conclusion, that I hope this forum survives and thrives. We all know how much we appreciate this forum and the generosity of Kalmbach in sponsoring and supporting it. My fervent hope is that Kalmbach will continue to find merit in sponsoring and supporting the forum as we go forward.
Rich
Alton Junction
I have been on the A-board since about 1999. While I agree that it could be a bit rowdy, the problem there was with certain members who simply don't know when to shut up.
The thing I'll miss most are the in-depth reviews of products, including non-Atlas stuff. Most manufacturer forums limit conversation to their own products, so everything gets a little vanilla. Even here, the moderators are a bit heavy handed when an advertiser's wares come into the cross hairs.
One of the reasons I dropped my subscription to MR was the fact that the reviews are both wishy washy and terribly late compared to the rapid response modelers now utilize via the forums. Also, the print reviews only cover a tiny fraction of what's out there. Smaller manufacturers with truly innovative products rarely make into print, but the forums capture just about everything. On The Railwire, there are several manufacturers (including some major players) who participate regularly.
As the self-proclaimed flagship of the hobby, the MR forum is a nice place to visit, post pictures and chat about various issues, but it completely misses the boat as a resource for closer looks at projects, products, and innovations. There's too many members, too many posts, and so it moves too quickly to really do a thorough job of it.
Of course, their hope is that we'll pick up the magazine for the deeper material, but even that's trying to be too much to too many. While the coverage is broad, it's not terribly deep.
As for the "noise to signal" ratio on Atlas (as Dr. Dave Vollmer puts it) yes, there was a lot, but if you tuned out the idiots, you could find some really good stuff there.
I for one thank Atlas for putting up with us for so long!
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
I have beern a member of this forum for several years, I have been a member of Atlas for even more years, and can honestly say that both forums have their detractors. I don't see Atlas any worse than this forum.
But, model rails do love to argue about trivial and non trivial issues, seems to be the human nature of the human being. I just ignore the bad and read the good on any forum.
AntonioFP45I also received much more feedback regarding my research and experimentation on Alclad with the focus on achieving stainless steel appearances which in turn I share with everyone else. The feedback here was helpful as well, but it was less, quantity-wise.
Speaking of which, did they "disappear" threads on the Atlas forum? If not, then the newbie Shruggers will need to get used to that. I remember at least two threads I participated in that were disappeared (the one where the guy from DownTown Deco was assembling and finishing one of his kits step-by-step, which got nuked before he did the weathering-darn it!; and the moon-amtrak one - I think we were doing very well in finding HO scale figures showing bare hinies), and that was after the great MR "Flame Wars" that you remember, Antonio.
Stourbridge Lion AntonioFP45: The other Atlas forum members that aren't members here, should be invited and made to feel welcome. I hope that the passenger train modelers come as well. I agree and have posted such on Atlas welcoming all that wish to join us. Every forum has problem members and it's the moderators that need to deal with those issues and not the membership. So yes, to any new Atlas (or other places) members that I hope will add to out community.
AntonioFP45: The other Atlas forum members that aren't members here, should be invited and made to feel welcome. I hope that the passenger train modelers come as well.
The other Atlas forum members that aren't members here, should be invited and made to feel welcome. I hope that the passenger train modelers come as well.
I agree and have posted such on Atlas welcoming all that wish to join us. Every forum has problem members and it's the moderators that need to deal with those issues and not the membership.
So yes, to any new Atlas (or other places) members that I hope will add to out community.
Lots of griping, conjecture and assumptions. I've been on the Atlas Forum for many years. I have noticed the membership/ user drop steadily for a while now. Usually would just pop in from time to time, not a regular like here.
I would also welcome The Atlas members here, there's only a few bad apples that seemed to haunt that place. Now they will be crying in their "Beer' and looking at Blank screen. I don't think they would try to come here w/ that same attitude. If so, we'll let Jeff have at 'em!
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
AntonioFP45 The other Atlas forum members that aren't members here, should be invited and made to feel welcome. I hope that the passenger train modelers come as well.
jeffrey-wimberly desertdog: I did not know that, but it comes as no surprise. I just hope that the troublemakers do not drift over to other forums to cause similar problems with the same outcome. They drift over to mine they'll be plucked, stuffed, slow cooked and out on their ear if I catch them causing trouble. They'll be out. All the way out.
desertdog: I did not know that, but it comes as no surprise. I just hope that the troublemakers do not drift over to other forums to cause similar problems with the same outcome.
I did not know that, but it comes as no surprise. I just hope that the troublemakers do not drift over to other forums to cause similar problems with the same outcome.
They drift over to mine they'll be plucked, stuffed, slow cooked and out on their ear if I catch them causing trouble. They'll be out. All the way out.
Jeff,
I really had to chuckle when I read your comment and I do like your approach to these potential problems....quick, short, and easy.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
I'm a bit disappointed by some of the negative responses, but understandably in many situations the negative points are what draw attention.
I've been a member of this forum since 2003 and joined Atlas later. Guys don't forget that this forum went through some "king kong sized" flame fests that, imho, made the Atlas incidents seem trivial. I was here and got "torched" a few times as well. Even the manufacturers were noticing. Our moderator then, Eric "Bergie" Bergstrom, certainly had his hands full. Thankfully, things have become much more civil since the 2006-2010 period.
Ripping on the Atlas forum due to the flame wars, imho, is like China ripping on North Korea for human rights violations. Sort of "The kettle calling the stove black" scenario.
The comments and concerns about Atlas forum members joining here......don't make sense; especially since a good number of those members are here too! SWChief, myself, Paul Cutler, Jason Shron, HGilespie, CMarchand, just to name a few. So what is up with this "concern"? The other Atlas forum members that aren't members here should be invited and made to feel welcome. I hope that the passenger train modelers come as well.
I like this forum and don't plan on going any time soon, but imho, it seems that I saw more threads and informational exchanges on the Atlas forum in the areas I was strongly geared towards.....passenger train modeling and southeastern railroad topics. I enjoyed some of the detailed in-depth posts and historical info. Many photos of passenger car models can be found on that forum in threads over the years.
I also received much more feedback regarding my research and experimentation on Alclad with the focus on achieving stainless steel appearances which in turn I share with everyone else. The feedback here was helpful as well, but it was less, quantity-wise.
Overall, my experience on the Atlas forum was a very positive one and I'm sad to see it go.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
That is the best approach...no sense getting into flamefests...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
desertdog BRAKIE: John,Atlas shut the forum down twice before because of the rowdy behavior. I fully believe this was strike three and they decided the forum was no longer worth the hassle and will pull the plug May,1st. Brakie, I did not know that, but it comes as no surprise. I just hope that the troublemakers do not drift over to other forums to cause similar problems with the same outcome. John Timm
BRAKIE: John,Atlas shut the forum down twice before because of the rowdy behavior. I fully believe this was strike three and they decided the forum was no longer worth the hassle and will pull the plug May,1st.
John,Atlas shut the forum down twice before because of the rowdy behavior.
I fully believe this was strike three and they decided the forum was no longer worth the hassle and will pull the plug May,1st.
Brakie,
John Timm
If a troublemaker shows up here and starts trouble, please just issue the Report Abuse and let the Moderators handle it. No need having our members get into attacks and such here...
GraffenMembership fees is never a good thing on a Forum..... And the figure of $25 as mentioned above must imply that the forum in question can't have very many users, as the costs involved can't justify that amount of money.... Picture a forum like this UK forum: "XXXXX, which started in March 2005, is the busiest online railway modelling community in the UK with a membership of around 15,000 attracting an average of over 85,000 unique visitors per month and continues to grow in terms of membership, traffic and content and ranked as the fourth busiest site in railway modelling in the world according to alexa.com." I can't see a reason demanding $375.000 annually for running it....... Unless the owner is greedy..... :-) My guess is that they pulled the plug due to the amount of time and work it demanded, and no amount of fees could have saved the situation...., :-)
Heh, the UK railway forum XXXXX (no names, but it begins with an 'R' and end in a 'Web', and I've posted on it a few times) was brought out by a modelling publishing group a month or so ago.Maybe in the medium term the surviving forums will be associated with modeling Media companies?
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desertdog I did not know that, but it comes as no surprise. I just hope that the troublemakers do not drift over to other forums to cause similar problems with the same outcome.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
It's not totally surprising. I'd guess the number of users / posts on the Atlas forums peaked some years back. It seems to me in recent years the Kalmbach forums have gotten much more use. Plus the expense part is real, I used to regularly post and read items on the "Fender Forum" hosted by Fender guitars. Eventually they decided they had to charge $25/year for users to have full access to all the forums.
I never used the Atlas forum much (to much rivet counting) but I did get ideas from them on ocassion.
Joe Staten Island West
BRAKIE John,Atlas shut the forum down twice before because of the rowdy behavior. I fully believe this was strike three and they decided the forum was no longer worth the hassle and will pull the plug May,1st.
The fact that some of the posters on this thread are also posting the same text in threads on the Atlas Forum closing in multiple other model railroad forums is an indication of how much the Internet presence of the hobby has changed since Atlas first established its forums.
With so many other options, the Atlas Forum de-evolved into being a mostly sour place, it seemed to me, with a few prolific (but ill-tempered) individuals doing lots of bashing of hobby institutions and other forum participants -- along with competitive manufacturers using the Atlas forum to announce their own products. Not to mention the many SPAM accounts that cluttered up the site -- a major upgrade would have been needed to deal with even just the SPAM alone.
The wild-eyed speculation here that Atlas is in dire financial straits based on their Forum shutting down seems unwarranted. It seems to me that Atlas is saying that the Forum had become more trouble than it was worth. Hard to argue with that, from my vantage point.
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Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I used to visit the Atlas HO forum regularly. There are some great modelers on the forum and I learned a lot from them. Where I was able and thought I had something meaningful to offer, I would contribute, as well. But in the last couple of years, I have visited the site less and less. Many of the topics have become far removed from model railroading and the tone has become increasingly negative, personal and combative. Threads are locked with regularity as some posters seem to relish the opportunity to start a quarrel.
Looking at the statement from the Atlas CEO, Tom Haedrich, the most significant part of what he has to say is the first sentence. (Italics are mine).
“...a result of the ever-increasing amount of time and other valuable resources expended to monitor and administer the forums. Besides the monthly costs of bandwidth, software and service providers, Atlas dedicates a significant amount of precious R&D staff time responding both on and offline to forum based issues and problems. It’s time that Atlas reestablished these limited resources, in particular valued R&D employee time, toward increased efforts at developing new and innovative model railroad products.”
It’s no wonder that Atlas wants to focus its attention on product. They are tired of refereeing a brawl. Frankly, I am surprised it took them so long to come to their decision.
chutton01 Shifting the topic a bit back to the original - about those "hordes" of former Atlas Forum users supposedly headed this way...don't you need to be a subscriber to Model Railroader, Trains, Classic Trains et. al. to be able to register to post on this forum?Or maybe that's just the subscribers extras, and posting is allowed for registered non-subscribers?
Shifting the topic a bit back to the original - about those "hordes" of former Atlas Forum users supposedly headed this way...don't you need to be a subscriber to Model Railroader, Trains, Classic Trains et. al. to be able to register to post on this forum?Or maybe that's just the subscribers extras, and posting is allowed for registered non-subscribers?
Nope, you can be a nonsubscriber and still be able to post on the forums.
You can't make MONEY on NO STOCK/SOLD OUT!
BOB H -
--------------------------------
Bob,I fully agree a company certainly can't sell if its not in stock.
Looking at the Atlas Trainman line that was suppose to be in stock at all times yet,a lot of the Train Man line has sold out and was never been release as a restock item-the low bulkhead flat cars comes to mind as does the regular bulkhead..
Atlas did manage to release the former Branch Line Berwick boxcar recently..
I'm still waiting on the release of their N Scale coil car that's been long in coming.
I fully convince there is more to the shutdown then low cash problems.
That's just it.
The new guy is going to end up either needing a complete workshop for all his scratchbuilding needs, such as that is anymore. Having to go and make one's own decals..which in itself is a job......and who knows what all else......or s/he is going to have to have one whale of a set of deep pockets to get any of the RTR high/low whatever detail locomotives and rolling stock left.
Conversely, given the way things can go either way..we could see it become more of a 'cottage' industry with little tiny businesses actually selling stock through direct marketing or who knows what...
blownout cylinder I've been on that forum a few times, but, I've got to the point where Icould not even log in to the site..nothing would work...so what the heck... On the other cash flow issue stuff..well...IIRC a few Prophets Of Doom who used to post here did suggest that such a thing could occur...you want high detailed trains..but are unwilling to either A) pay for such a privilege or B) can't buy a less detailed piece and build it up yourself...oh well...what can you say....
I've been on that forum a few times, but, I've got to the point where Icould not even log in to the site..nothing would work...so what the heck...
On the other cash flow issue stuff..well...IIRC a few Prophets Of Doom who used to post here did suggest that such a thing could occur...you want high detailed trains..but are unwilling to either A) pay for such a privilege or B) can't buy a less detailed piece and build it up yourself...oh well...what can you say....
Barry,
High detail, low detail, high priced, moderately priced, it makes no difference - you have to actually have something to sell BEFORE you try to sell it.
People with no experiance in this hobby are not very likely to "trust" that the product will show up, and therefore will be less likely to invest in the other aspects of a modeling project if that "key" piece is not a realtively sure thing.
And all this high detail RTR has shifted modeling styles and driven out companies like Champ decal, so you statement about detailing it yourself is now much harder than it was 15 years ago.
Personally, I'll take it either way, I build what I need to and buy what I don't feel like building, but again, that's ALL getting harder with this preorder non sense. I have 40 years experiance, a wide knowledge base of what has been produced in those 40 years for searching the secondary markets, and 40 years of refined modeling skills - AGAIN, what about he new guy?
Sheldon