Bob and Richard,
Glad you are both back, just two among a big crowd lined up at the Narrowgauge Station. Look around, but if anyone gets stuck on anything from where to get what to where to find a good place to talk in depth with more narrowgaugers, please just ask. I'd be glad to make a suggestion or offer a link.
Two essentials that haven't been mentioned are the Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette (an independently published magazine distributed by Kalmbach) and the HOn3 Annuals (2009, 2010, and 2011 issues so far) published by Carstens. In addition to great articles and fantastic pics, both also carry ads for many vendors that may be less widely advertised, but are well-known in the NG world.
There's also the National Narrow Gauge Convention. It's held yearly at a rotating location, which in 2012 is Seattle. There you'll find the widest selection of narrowgauge products and the latest stuff being announced and produced.
While nothing is official on the K-36, my sources indicate that -- off-the-record -- word is that this is all but certain. But I would not be disappointed to be wrong if it was a K-28. I have a brass Sunset version from the mid-90s that is scheduled to get a Tsunami soon, which will be my second such install, so I may be a little more patient about the wait for a "sports" model. Whatever it is, it'll most likely be announced in Seattle.
One indicator of how Blackstone is growing the market for HOn3 is Peco. Last year, they came out with HOn3 flex track. Apparently they just announced the availability of switches in HOn3 at a European show. Not quite the snap track some are starting to clamor for, but that means Peco joins ME and Shinohara in building widely available track components, in addition to a number of smaller, cottage manufacturers of custom track work.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I know it is all a bit new to you now, but hang in there and while the sounds, as delivered on the Blackstones is great, make sure to explore the many sounds within the system using the CV values to create your own special sound and reverb capabilities within the on-board audio production mixer.
This will require a good DCC command station. (I chose the Digitrax Zephyr 'extra') and you will need to print out the 100 plus page Tsunami prgrammers guide found on the CD provided with your engines. The guide is the same for all the engines. It took me a full year to learn the ropes. I'm 66 and slow on the uptake, but I am pleased beyond description at the final payoff with my finished sounds.
Spend a lot of time playing with your stuff on a simple loop or oval learning to program, setup and change the CV's. As you get better and better, you will want to get to layout building.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
As a newcomer to HOn3 and Rio Grande railroading, I truly value the information and great insight expressed in this thread. I had given up on my modeling after approx. 50 years in HO scale, due to health issues and sold my 12 locomotives & rolling stock. Then my health problem improved, and I found myself "trainless", and decided to look at narrow gauge.
I've just purchased 2 C-19's and a K-27 (Blackstone), along with a few start-up passenger & freight cars... and am in the process of re-doing my train room, benchwork, and backdrop areas. I was a bit surprised to see the somewhat limited amount of HOn3 supplies & resources available (I guess HO scale spoiled me...) but I'm adapting quickly.
I'm just glad to find that there are other "narrow minded" forum members out there. 'See you around the train yard!
Bob
Mike, Thanks for adding even more fine points to the narrow gauge discussion. As I have noted in my earliest posts, I am here doing what I am doing and back in to MR after a 15 year hiatus solely due to Blackstone and for no other reason at all! The other reasons came after I got my first Blackstone K-27 in early 2011 and spent a few months boning up of Colorado narrow gauge history, spending about $200.00 for Bob Richardson's fabulous trio of "Chasing the Narrow Gauge books and the Denver and South Park book. The hook was set and more than a few bucks later, here I am working on the railroad again.
I considered dual gauge track and bought a bundle at the Timoniumtrain show last year, but ultimately decided to allow full concentration on narrow gauge only. What I did do was make up a 4X8 sheet layout Containing two concentric a simple ovals with dual gauge HO and regular N gauge track to "run-in locos for myself and my friends. This undecorated, raw plywood table lifts into the ceiling for storage in an attached building on my house used for other purposes. It really comes in handy for simply watching trains run while my main narrow gauge layout might remain an unfinished, work in progress for some time.
I look forward to scratchbuilding too.
I am not planning on getting any K-36s if that is truly what is next from Blackstone. However, all the three major Blackstone dealers that I know personally, claim that Blackstone refuses to discuss what is next and may not even know themselves, yet. They throw up their hands in frustration. They could be selling the next Blackstone product, but it ain't there.
I took the Blackstone on-line survey and told them I would buy three "sports models" , (K-28s) at any price they choose the moment they were offered. I consider the K-28 to be the most beautiful of all narrow gauge engines ever built as long as they are in black with the shotgun stacks they came with. No Bumble Bee, green boiler or fake diamond stack stuff on my layout. I want 'em as they were outshopped at the builder. The "Mudhens", (k-27), and the C-19s were hits out of the ball park for Blackstone. The K-28 would be a nice three run play just now, in my opinion. Still, they are starting another run of C-19s and a third run of K-27s having sold out those big hits already. They are in a prime position just now. I hope they take full advantage.
The gauge issue is another point. I do note that I am seeing a ton of On30 stuff clogging the market and if the Narrow Gauge Gazette magazine is any indicator, that might be the narrow gauge of the future. Unfortunately, and very untrue to realism, all the On30 stuff is modeling the D&RGW which never ran that 21/2 foot gauge at all. The fact that it runs on standard gauge HO track is probably the only reason it exists at all.
On3 almost doesn't exist due to the flood of On30. Finally, poor Sn3 while more available than ever is still very much outside any sort of main stream. A lot of narrow gauge stuff is also being produced in G gauge, too, if you have the really big bucks and the room to work it.
narrow gauge nuclear The latest spate of narrow gauge locos with Tsunami sound and rolling stock in all gauges is fabulous and the great part of narrow gauge is that long trains are 5-10 cars. Two or three engines are about all the entire road needs. A narrow gauge empire can involve fewer than 20 revenue cars and maybe 3 MOW items, worked by three engines. There is rarely a need for what could be called a narrow gauge "yard". Instead, a lot of single and double, well weeded sidings will handle 100% of the traffic, switching tricks and car storage scattered all up and down the line in several small "burgs". Richard Hull
The latest spate of narrow gauge locos with Tsunami sound and rolling stock in all gauges is fabulous and the great part of narrow gauge is that long trains are 5-10 cars. Two or three engines are about all the entire road needs. A narrow gauge empire can involve fewer than 20 revenue cars and maybe 3 MOW items, worked by three engines.
There is rarely a need for what could be called a narrow gauge "yard". Instead, a lot of single and double, well weeded sidings will handle 100% of the traffic, switching tricks and car storage scattered all up and down the line in several small "burgs".
Richard Hull
Before you get too exstatic about your vision of what narrow (i.e., smaller than 4'8.5") gauge is, bear in mind that it might collide head on with a reality check:
As you can see, there's backwoods narrow gauge on a frayed shoestring, and then there's narrow gauge that can put most Class 1 standard gauge railroads to shame. Of course, in Japan, 1067mm gauge IS standard gauge.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - narrow gauge and narrower gauge)
My timing must just have been right. I started a medium sized layout based on the Rio Grande that is HO/HOn3, with considerable dual-gauge track. In part, I included standard gauge because I like Rio Grande standard gauge, too, but also because of the daunting task of building all the narrowgauge rolling stock I'd need. At least I would be able to run lots of SG while I labor to build a decent inventory of rolling stock.
Then came Blackstone. The superlatives that can be used are nearly endless. They produce absolutely magnificent models at what I consider to be fair prices. Some complain about that, but the fact is if you've spent lots of time building the same kit over and over, you KNOW it's more of a bargain than such discussions indicate. My time is worth a lot, even hobby time, so I appreciate the value that Blackstone offers to those serious about NG.
That said, HOn3 has been a rather clubby scene. At one time, because you had to be pretty adventurous, resourceful, and somewhat well financed when every loco was either brass or something you built yourself and most everything else was scratchbuilt. This is not to say that current HOn3 modelers aren't inventive or resourceful, but the fact of the matter is that by around 1980, a full line of items was available so long as you're willing to devote the time to build kits. Why this image persists is mostly myth, nurtured by certain grumpy old guys who seem more interested in yelling "Get off my lawn!" than being helpful.
It is the case that some are uncomfortable with all the new attention to NG that RTR HOn3 has brought, but they're passing into history. There are some great -- and friendly! -- groups out there, so search around if you don't find the help you need to get started or advance in NG. Good folks are out there who will welcome you, even if you weren't born in baggage care snowed in on Cumbres Pass.
I'd encourage anyone considering narrowgauge to consider it seriously, for all the advantages mentioned above. True, in RTR form it currently concentrates on Colorado prototypes. But there are plenty of other great lines to model and today's resourceful NG modeler has plenty of raw material to work with. I enjoy my K-27s (and Blackstone has made clear that the K-36 is next to be announced) because I I'm a Rio Grande man.
The availability of the C-19 means a wonderful, fine operating little loco is available in a form factor that was used by many other lines far beyond Colorado. Several versions have been released painted but unlettered to make this even easier, with more versions like this scheduled for the next run in 2013.
But Blackstone's work isn't just good for Blackstone. It's also nurtured a much wider general market for all HOn3 items. Sure, I do NOT have to build all those 3000 series boxcars. However, that just frees up time to kitbash or scratchbuild what I want that isn't or won't be offered RTR. Those folks having a conniption fit because they're sure real modelers will die out when they pass away can go back to yelling at the kids on the lawn. HOn3 is growing -- and changing -- so come on in, the water's fine!
Welcome back to the narrow gauge arena.
How odd, I just ordered my second C-19 with Tsunami sound this morning! You'll love your C-19.
I have an old Westside Brass K-27 and it doesn't like tight radius either. The Blackstones easily cruise over 18 radius and probably would handle a bit tighter track if the gauge was opened ever so slightly. Real narrow gauge engines with their blind drivers were famous for navigating tight turns and less than stellar track work.
Ever see a real live narrow gauge triple header? In this video, the Cumbres and Toltec, (a second hunk of old D&RGW trackage), seems to have all their engines and rolling stock out for a cinder pushin' romp. The little mikes are literally "haulin freight" A triple header and triple cabooser as well! Wow!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIXu702O3bw&feature=related
If I were to abandon my current S standard guage endevors, no doubt the Lake Tahoe Railway & Navigation would my choice in Sn3, SP aquired control and converted the line in 1927, the exact year I currently model.
Dave
narrow gauge nuclear There was always that desire to have big yards,
My first adventure into narrow gauge was not good. At the time allmost all narrow gauge loco's were brass. I soon discovered their tight tollerances and that these small eight coupled locomotives required 24' to 30" radius. Instead of easing the 4x8 blues it made space worse. As such the first narrow gauge loco's I owned have been sitting in their boxes for 25 years or so. I certainly hope the foam hasn't rotted on them. On the other hand I just got a Blackstone C-19 two weekends ago. So my narrow gauge modeling has started again.
After about 50 years in HO I have had a number of layouts and have collected a lot of cars and locos. There was always that desire to have big yards, long consists, Mallets, etc. More track was better. At least, that was the older MR mindset. Larger layouts and craming as much stuff on the smaller 4X8 sheet that you could get on it.
N Gauge gave the 4X8 layout a real shot in the arm, especially after the gauge got some serious manufacturers that took the unfinished toy look out of the rolling stock and locos.
Finally, a large fraction of my old HO gauge structures and people are transferable. A lot of interesting action is possible as double and triple headers of tiny mikes are needed to pull 10 full ore gons, two freight cars and a caboose up the 4-5% grades. Three car passenger trains on the narrow gauge are considered obscenely long and found only on crack named trains run only during the "happy times".
The human form is more "in tune" with the little engines and rolling stock and serve the local needs better.
I include a great narrow gauge video URL of the Durango and Silverton (ex D&RGW). Note the tiny box car compared to the brakeman coupling the little mike. Also note the sloppy, ill aligned track as the train 'rounds the bend. Beautiful scenery and little trains running all year round
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlhY0J5-ftg
This is why I chose narrow gauge and a lot of others are getting into it as well.