Well, Mike those Blackstone's would have out of my range as well, but over the last 11+ years I accummulated 12 HO scale DCC locomotives, three were early BLI's, one Proto, and all the rest were B'mann Spectrum's. I installed Tsunami decoders & high bass speakers in all the rest... and they fetched enough $$$ to pay for three Blackstone locomotives. (I knew if I was ever going to get any Blackstone's it had to be now, while i still had the money from my HO trains).
I figured your track & turnouts were hand-laid, as they looked way better than "store-bought" ones. The real test has been passed (.....with flying colors) if you've never had a derailment. That is awesome... You Da Man!!!
Bob
Bob,
Thanks. It does need ballast
The standard gauge main is all code 83. Everything dual gauge and NG is code 70. Turnouts are all Shinohara. The flex track is almost all weather ME in 70 and 83. So nothing fancy. My only handlaid track is this HO/HOn3 crossing, the first piece of hand laid track I've ever done. The ties should have been skinnier and the rail could have been a little less crooked, but things operate through it just fine. It's never had a derailment.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Excellent looking layout, Mike... your track work looks great!
That's a great looking layout plan, Wolfgang.... you can bet I'll follow every step of your progress with great interest!!!
Here's the next episode in the tour of the line.
9] As we near Tefft riding on the rear platform, this shot looks back down the grade towards Rockwood. 10] Just before Tefft, we cross a bridge and see the Cascade logging branch above the Silverton branch. 11] Tefft station was built from the same plan as the better known Cumbres station. 12] The Tefft overview shows track arrangements and the junction with the Cascade branch. 13] Looking back again from the rear platform, we see how the Cascade branch rises in the distance. It will eventually pierce the wall and curve into a logging area to be built over the standard gauge staging area in the next room. 14] Nearing Silverton, we see the bridge over the Rio de las Animas ahead, along with the North Star Mill on the far side. 15] An overview of the river crossing shows the coved corner of the backdrop, along with the $50 river (that's how much casting plastic it took to make it.) 16] A wide angle shot of Silverton. I painted the backdrop based on a panorama of photos I took in Silverton following Greg Gray's excellent tutorial VHS tape on painting backdrops. Underneath Silverton is Dove Creek on the standard gauge.All for now.
Nice K. Guessing it's from the latest run of Blackstone's? Reminds me I should try mounting the plow on one of mine.
Ulrich,
Nice pics. My wife lived in Japan for a number of years (US Navy brat) and speaks fluid Japanese. If you haven't seen them yet, John West has 5 nice pics of JNR steamers here:
http://lifewastedchasingtrains.com/main.php?g2_itemId=257
Wolfgang,
Great track plan. I'm sure that this layout will be eye-catching with the extra creative space permitted by the elevations you can work with compared to the limitations of modules. I've got a trackplan somewhere on paper, but just can't find it right now. I'll need it for the Golden Spike award paperwork, but just haven't gotten around to that. In fact, this slideshow cam about as a substitute for the trackplan, since people wanted to know more about the layout.
I've always liked narrow gauge. Never modeled it by i do like it. Wheel high weeds. mouldering freight cars. beutiful.
"Mess with the best, die like the rest" -U.S. Marine Corp
MINRail (Minessota Rail Transportaion Corp.) - "If they got rid of the weeds what would hold the rails down?"
And yes I am 17.
I started my narrow gauge adventure with modules and got finally an empire in a room made of modules. This was the Silver Valley RR.
But with modules there're a few drawbacks, no grades and a lot of module borders. When I came across the "Pueblo and Salt Lake RR" plan from John Armstrong this hooked me and I developed this plan for my basement room.
Now I'm busy with benchwork and hope in the next future to have my Silver Spike. That means, not the RR from one end to the other, but an temporary layout with my modules Salina and Fiddletown.
This way I can run trains and do some scenery at Esperanza and the narrow gauge line.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
Narrow gauge railroading has been my long time favorite ever since I had the chance to take a ride on the Durango & Silverton RR back in 1974, when it was still operated by the D&RGW. I bought a Westside Model Co. brass D&RGW T-12 a little later, which I painted and lettered. Being a college student in those days, that was some expenditure. IIRC, the cost was $ 160, plus shipping to Germany and duty - more than my monthly allowance in those days.
It´s a far cry from those beautifully detailed Blackstone engines, which are out of reach for me in terms of price.
I am still in love with narrow gauge. My layout is based on a line in Japan, where the "standard" gauge is 3 1/2 ft..
Does not really look like narrow gauge, does it?
The C-18 or the C-19 are my favorite D&RGW locos. The above drawing I made using Atlas RTS.
Richard,
Thanks for your comments. I believe we think along similar, but not identical lines.
This project is just entering its 20th year. It began, in part, as a rehab project after surgery (we won't go there, other than to say that didn't help me in the long term. I'm glad I got a lot pf physical stuff out of the way before things got worse. But that is a lesson. We'll all get old, so it's good to take into consideration we'll eventually be wider, stiffer, and weaker.
I tend to get onto certain projects depending on what I'm feeling like, have the materials for, find inspiration with, or otherwise decide, "It's time that got built." Starting in Durango is backwards from how track and scenery was laid, as the custome HO/HOn3 crossing there was the last major piece of track laid. I started at the top and worked my way down. The tour will eventually get to Red Mountain -- yep, we're going there! -- but it's the only part of the layout that came with me to the new basement with dwelling over it. I planned, built track that began with Red Mtn, and worked my way around the room and down. Oddly, after most of the rest of the scenery was roughed in, I only got back to Red Mtn in the last six months or so, which you'll see when we arrive at the end of the line.
Slow sometimes and not always steady, I did projects as they came at me. Many of the buildings were only built in the last year or so. Trees? A bunch of them lately and that's helped tremendously. Quickest, but not necessarily cheapest way for a layout to look better is add trees.
It's getting late, so will be back with more of the tour on Saturday.
Thanks, Maxman... I'll check it out.
IronGoat As I mentioned to Richard, my burning question at present concerns the choice of roadbed (HO or N ?) HO looks to wide & too high! Thanks again... Bob
As I mentioned to Richard, my burning question at present concerns the choice of roadbed (HO or N ?) HO looks to wide & too high!
Thanks again... Bob
You are not limited to cork for roadbed. The California Roadbed Company (http://www.homabed.com/) sells HOn3 homasote roadbed. It comes in straight lengths as well as curveable lengths.
A nice summary, Richard.... and thanks for a great layout tour, Mike!
My K-27 arrived yesterday.... and I thought I'd "play with it a bit" before jumping back into building my layout.....
Mike, Thanks for the slide show tour of your very large layout! It's really nice. I notice that on many large layouts of more modern construction that large sections are "unfinished", in the sense that ballast is not there and in yard and congested areas little finish is done and such assemelages are more often a MR's rolling stock storage area where a lot of switching tricks are done. or simply pass-through areas on the way to more scenic developed areas.
At the same time, such layouts have areas of intense interest and show a great deal of meticulous modeling skill as if being entered in a diorama competition. I guess these are most often finished so well due to the desire to photograph a flawless scene where some cool activity is focused.
I like this idea and it is how I am developing the P.U.P. By building a layout in a series of more or less finished dioramas, you can have a small active area for photography that is fascinating and operational within itself for those important "show-and-tells". You can develop skills and hone technique as you go without making a giant mistake spread over a rapidly assembled complete system. I have already changed my ideas on some track and operational areas based on my first section of the layout.
My initial thought was to just blast down all the track and get something operational and pick up the scenicing part later. I am glad that I started as part of what will be a patchwork quilt of dioramas on my more narrow, narrow gauge shelf layout. I will note that the roof slant backdrop has worked out a bit better. photographically, than I thought it would on such a narrow shelf type layout.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
To keep the discussion going, I decided to parcel out a tour of my layout I put together for my list buddies at HOn3Chat, a Yahoo groups list that is one of the best groups of folks you can find to hang with in HOn3. I'll do this in installments, maybe when the conversation starts to lag again. So if you're bored with seeing more of my layout, keep on talking
I'm omitting the first part of the slideshow narrative, which shows staging and some SG track, and may omit more at the end for similar reasons. However, all the pics are available at the link just below and if you have questions about anything, just ask.
Here's the link to the slideshow: http://img812.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=albuquerqueeaststaging0.jpg The layout room is 28 feet at its very longest axis, along the wall where Silverton sits. The room is narrow at the entrance, but then widens out into a space that is 16x16 feet square at the far end, broken up by a curved room divider. Overhead clearance is a bit of an issue, so instead of a double-deck layout, it's sort of a cross between a no-lix and deck-and-a-half. I also wanted to have big mountains that blocked my view. I'm over 6' and the ceiling is about 6'6". To get to Durango, we have to travel over the D&RGW Four Corner Division. It is a standard gauge secondary main that stretches from a connection on the Rio Grande mainline across Utah down to Moab, then across rugged territory like the Paradox Valley, through the small, but industrious town of Dove Creek, Colorado, past Hesperus and on into Durango, the 3rd Rail Hub of the San Juan Mountains. From there, the line proceeds south to Grants, New Mexico, where trackage rights on the Santa Fe allow traffic to proceed to Albuquerque. That's where we'll get aboard the Houston-Portland Zephyr for a fast ride to a slow ride in Durango. Traffic on this little-known line is not busy, but it is profitable. Set sometime between 1960 and 1974, the Atomic Energy Commission has an important, but secret plant at Dove Creek. Some of it's feedstock comes, tight-lipped, from the mines above Silverton. Other traffic, especially in 3rd rail territory, supports the usual needs of a busy, somewhat profitable region rich in mining and other extractive industries.3] Overlooking the station, you can see there is a dual-gauge track in front of the station, along with the standard gauge main and a siding. On the back side of the station is the dual-gauge yard. 4] The overview of the Durango facilities shows the newest loco on the block. Burnham Shops just released a standard gauge 44-tonner modified with dual-gauge couplers that is well-liked by the switch crews, other than they have to be careful not to run off into 3-foot territory with it! 5] This overview of the Durango roundhouse also shows various industries. There's an oil refinery, stockyard, packing plant, and, in the distance, the location of the ASARCO smelter in West Durango, among others. Lots still to build and detail, but I'm not longer embarrassed to take pics of it. 6] At West Durango, one can see, in order, the reversing loop track on the left, the Silverton Branch, the dual gauge main to the RGS and Hesperus, and on the right, the ASARCO smelter site. 7] As the Silverton Branch heads upgrade, the train soon comes to the national forest boundary as it enters the mountains in earnest.8] Our narrowgauge train soon arrives at Rockwood, site of a lumber mill that is slated for massive expansion once the planned extension of the Cascade logging branch is built. It is a source of cut lumber, ties, and box materials.All for now. Keep on having fun!
Nice job, Silverton! You may be in standard gauge, but you have the narrow gauge spirit well in hand.
Recently, I have tried to obtain at least one HOn3 K-28, but alas, it is hopeless, I fear, at a price I can handle. I have never modified a loco to any great extent, but such is the urge to run a K-28, I am tempted to use my old lost wax casting setup and do a wax of the smoke box cover of a K-28, cast it in bronze or tin-antimony, add one of my old cal-scale air pumps and put it on one of my Blackstone K-27's! I'll have to re-pipe and re-hand rail it and add the needed number boards and cal-scale Pyle-National headlamp! Then, there is the tender issue...Hmm..
I hate diddlling with one of my k-27's, though any real warranty on them is long gone. I'll have to forget the improper sand and steam domes, but a litle forgiveness might be allowed if I do a creditable job on the thing, otherwise.
With narrow gauge a two car train looks right. You have shorter trains, sharper curves and steeper grades. And it looks good.
Those Blackstone engines are fun to run!
Well, I'm just starting my narrow gauge layout, the Pueblo & Salt Lake RR. There will be quite some dual gauge track.. I like track building. That's another point for this layout.
I am prompted to enter this thread for a number of reasons. I have always been a fan of narrow gauge, but never quiet wanted to give up what I had invested in all my HO stuff. My layout that I am currently building has a narrow gauge 1927 theme, but using small HO engines and cars. My engines are 3 Ken Kidder, 2-6-0 Porter Moguls (they have been re-geared and Sagami motors added from Northwest Short Line) and 5 Pacific Fast Mail/United 2-8-0 Ma &Pa Consolidations (the consolidations are modeled after the 1912 Baldwin and according to the PFM catalog can run on a 15" radius), and 1 Roundhouse RTR 2 truck shay. Cars are the smaller Roundhouse Overton passenger cars, the older Mantua 1860 freight cars and some old Bobber type cabooses. I just like the Colorado feel, with the older broken down, well used engines pulling a rather small number of cars. Also, it’s a feel for the scenery. And trying to create a certain atmosphere. Good luck with your narrow gauge project.
The emphasis on Colorado narrow gauge is, has and always will be, obvious. As Mike noted, there are more miles of track, long lived activity and mountainous documentation on Colorado narrow gauge than anywhere else in the US. Thus, it rules so far as r-t-r and kit based rolling stock and locos are concerned.
No one is bound to Colorado narrow gauge. Fantasy roads, like mine, with reasonable, believable origins are the life blood of narrow gauge in that they avoid your having to follow any rules to produce 100% or even heavy adherance to any real scenery or operational regime. What's more, you can alter extant engines, if that is your bent, so that only vestiges of their origin remain. Narrow gauge is classically tucked away in nooks and crannys of 19th and early 20th century America. Opportunities abound for fantasy shortlines.
In my fantasy road's case, I stayed in Colorado but pushed rail west out of Placerville to Paradox, creating an almost purely mineral hauling road owned by a mining consortium designed to take advantage of the big mineral rushes and mining out to the Paradox valley from 1938 until the PUP closed down in 1952. (Paradox Uravan and Placervile). All of this allowed for rental and purchase of D&RGW and RGS locos that were either spares, too aged or were on their way to the scrappers. Same goes for rolling stock, though the PUP did custom build a few cars in its small Nucla/Naturita shops.
Narrow gauge is to be enjoyed, free of many confines that might be expected in other areas of MR and most Narrow gaugers are far more forgiving of their fellows as there are only a limited number of us. Most anything narrow gauge will "wow" us.
Your tip on the N scale roadbed is a good one... I'll definately go that way. The site by John West is a great piece of reference material, thanks for that one!
What people usually do when using the N scale roadbed is let the ties hang out over the edges without any filler strips. That way you can grade the ballast to expose as much or as little of the tie ends as you want. This technique becomes more obvious if you start looking at pics of the Rio Grande right of way and the varied ways in which maintenance, erosion, and weathering affected the track's appearance.
Here's a great site by John West, a a guy who's wasted his life chasing trains, but doesn't seem unhappy about it :
http://lifewastedchasingtrains.com/main.php?g2_itemId=120
Lots of views of the track to help give you some ideas about how you'll want to model it and the interface between track and scenery..
John's site doesn't cover only the Rio Grande or Colorado. However, Colorado and the railroad are attractive targets for railfans, vacationers, and photographers, thus there is plenty of documentation available to model with. While this focus upsets some, it's also a little like the European fascination with Swiss trains (and to a certain extent, Austrian and other NG lines are in similar relationship to the Swiss as the C&S, etc are to the Rio Grande).
Essentially, it's a very similar niche market that is widely accepted and well provided with suitable models and supplies to fans in many countries, whatever their interest in their own national railways of various types. Bemo and the others serving this sub-class of overall model railroading apparently make a profit, as well as providing a market base for even more specialized manufacturers, just as Blackstone has done here in the US.
Thanks, Richard and Mike...
I think I'll either go with N scale cork roadbed, or no roadbed at all... I'll have to think that one over a bit. If I do N scale, it looks like I'd have to use the N roadbed supplemented by a center strip or spacer of some sort. (I guess i wonder about the sound without any roadbed present....)
I haven't decided what aspect/era I want to model yet.. I'm sort of like Mike, in that I may do some things that are not verifiable as prototype, but are "probable" or "possible"!
I already have received my two C-19 locomotives, and I'm waiting for the K-27 (#462 weathered, with plow). The performance & appearance of the C-19 is impressive, to say the least.
As for which roadbed, I used HO for all my track, HO, dual, and HOn3. However, I most likely would use N if I did it again on the narrowgauge side.
I guess I think that putting track down right on the sub-roadbed -- in most cases wood -- is going to be noisy, so my advice is to use something. I do know some are trying foam, like WS?, but I'm not sure about how it'll hold up. Cork does get dry and brittle, so it's pick your poison on that aspect.
As for getting that dirted in look, that's all in how you ballast and how you apply your scenery. I'm happy with mine, although if you didn't use roadbed at all it would be a lot less ballast. But you do need to plan for it or you'll end up with an entirely too neat looking line.
While there are NG lines that resemble mainline action and standard gauge lines that resemble what many HOn3 lines look like, modelling the Rio Grande and its associated connections in Colorado is all about which aspect of NG you want to depict. 70 car freights behind multiple locos? Cumbres Pass. Classy varnish? The San Juan. Logging? Connections at Chama and Dolores, among others, to woods lines and sawmills. Little struggling shortline traffic feeders? If the RGS is too big time, then there are the Three Little Lines that ran north out of Silverton. And plenty of classy short train railroading through just about any Western scenery you can imagine.
Guess I'm unapologetic about being Colorado-centric, but it's one of the realities that the HOn3 modeler contends with. Either love it or do something else, they're both good. And some people are happy to dabble in just about anything HOn3. I like doing freelance things that there may not have been a prototype for, but which could have been.
One of the things I like is not necessarily many NGer's cup of tea, because I like diesels, too. There are a few authentic diesel models available, but there are also a number of good looking conversions to HOn3 that allow a much lower entry cost to the HOn3 market. My current favorite conversion is a Kato NW2, but the Bachman 44- and 70-tonners are also good, cheap locos that can run well in HOn3. Likewise, conversions involving older Athearn chassis are also possible.
So definitely don't worry if you can't afford a K- or C-class loco from Blackstone, there are less costly alternatives. Building from kits bought wisely can also be rather inexpensive.
A Peco update: Was trying to find the note I saw recently about the new turnouts, but no luck so far. A lot of my reading overseas is done through Google translator, which can be a little confusing when backtracking for links. I did find a Jan. 2012 confirmation from a designer who works for Peco confirming the imminent release of the #5 HOn3 turnouts soon. So if they're not being produced for stock yet, they soon will be.
Agree especially with limited space
Cramming sidings etc just creates a cluttered look
Trains with 5 to 10 cars no larger than 40' boxcars look great on 4x8 to 5x12 layouts
You can use 2-8-0s---2-8-2s for short lash ups
Even a Mountain or a Berk doesn't look bad pulling 10 car consists or even 12 if using 50 ton coal hoppers
I have a 6 1/2 x 9 1/2 around the walls and while I have loaded up 24 coal hoppers etc to a Berk for videos I much prefer watching the 5-10 cars
51% share holder in the ME&O ( Wife owns the other 49% )
ME&O
IRONROOSTER Actually, the advantages you list are true for any shortline railroad that's not too prosperous regardless of gauge. I think that a lot of folks are into On30 because the cars and engines are a good size - about the size of S standard gauge cars and engines. It's also a bit cheaper with the deep discounts you can get on Bachmann stuff and of course you can use Atlas track to save even more. If I were to do narrow gauge as my primary railroad, On30 is what I would pick. Enjoy Paul
Actually, the advantages you list are true for any shortline railroad that's not too prosperous regardless of gauge.
I think that a lot of folks are into On30 because the cars and engines are a good size - about the size of S standard gauge cars and engines. It's also a bit cheaper with the deep discounts you can get on Bachmann stuff and of course you can use Atlas track to save even more. If I were to do narrow gauge as my primary railroad, On30 is what I would pick.
Enjoy
Paul
I have to agree with Paul on both counts. Modeling any shortline, like the Ma & Pa, means short trains, limited trackwork, small rosters, sharp curves, etc, - it need not be narrow gauge.
And, having done some work in HOn3, if I ever went back in that direction, it would have to be in a larger scale than 1/87th.
On3 or On30 really brings home the human interaction of smaller simpler trains.
But my modeling interests are currently firmly rooted in big time 1950's, Class I operations. And, admittedly, I have the space for it.
But I do believe that reguardless of era or railroad type, layouts need not be overly crouded or complex to cover the subject matter. Narrow gauge, shortline or double track mainline Class I, better to model a small portion of it well than a large potion of it poorly.
We should not confuse size with complexity. Just because a layout is large, it need not be complex.
Sheldon
Although I model in HO Standard gauge, my layout is more like narrow gauge with tight turn radius, fairly steep grades and mountainous terrain!
I love the narrow gage lines of Colorado and if I were to start over would likely model in Sn3 or On30.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I use just standard old HO cork roadbed, but hindsight is always 20-20. I now wished I had used nothing at all as narrow gauge lines ran mostly on dirt or rubble fill and were often on no real grade at all! I would have to tear up more track than I am willing to re-work to go flat on my homasote base. Narrow gauge looks best and very natural with just rails and tie tops showing on zero grade elevation beyond the natural terrain. If you model prior to 1890 a lot of track is virtually unballasted on round log ties that were just planed top and bottom, bark still on the sides.
I see nothing wrong with just using standard HO cork roadbed though if you really want roadbed.
Thanks, Mike...
I already have the three Annuals (from Carstens) and have subscribed to the Gazette... the "big show" in Seattle sounds great... as I just attended the Great train Expo here in Kansas City last week and was amazed at the absence of Narrow Gauge items (all scales...) at the show. *One seller had a half dozen Blackstone cars, and that was it!!!
Thanks, Richard... I still have my Digitrax Super Chief command station & controller set, so I am set in that department. I've settled on ME track & turnouts, as I used ME on my HO layout and was satisfied with it.
I still am a bit confused regarding cork roadbed... as HO looks too large, and N scale too small? Any guideance in that department?
I understand about "the uptake problem" as I'll be 74 in May, and bearing that in mind, I intend to make this my last layout. I only have a small room, formally my home office, before my retirement, but it'll do nicely for my new HOn3 pike.
Thanks again for the input, as I need all of that i can get at this stage of the game!
God bless... Bob