Rodger, Mike and Ray,
It's guys like you that made me want to be a member. I was a lone wolf modeler for years. I think one of the most rewarding aspects is having people that you can go to, no matter what your skill level, and they are more than happy to show, teach me new things or methods. I have done some volunteering at shows. Something I never would have thought of doing before. My wife and I have even given a clinic on tree making! The monthly meeting that the group that we joined has become one of our most looked forward to events every month.( She calls it all her eight year old friends)
Of course, group membership in any organization is not for everyone. But for me, it has been one of the best things I have done in this hobby, other than getting my wife hooked on trains!! I feel, like most things in life, you only get back what you are willing to put into something.
I read that some of the responders complain about the cost of membership, that it's an elitist group, well the hobby needs promoting, just like any group. When I joined our group, we only had six or seven members. Now seven years latter, we have a consistent 20 to 30 folks every month.
I am by no means a rivet counter, but my work has improved a lot. Being a boat bum, never in my life did I think that I could sit in a room with a bunch of rocket scientist's and have fun playing with trains! The one thing that does bother me is that my wife can paint and weather circles around me! But that could be another post, that could open up a whole new can of worms!
Have Fun
Phil, CEO, Eastern Sierra Pacific Railroad. We know where you are going, before you do!
NO. No more discussion wanted or needed.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
TA462 ATLANTIC CENTRAL: As for the AP program, its not my thing. I have the skills, but I'm not into the social aspects of the hobby to that degree. Not really interested in contests, conventions, or in building stuff just to suit the requirements that does not fit my layout goals. Sheldon Sheldon, you might think you have the skills but until your work is judged then you never really know. Don't take that as a knock on your hobby skills because it's not. I remember entering my first couple buildings to be judged and I was almost ready to quit after it was over. The judges can be brutally honest but it does make you want to be a better modeller. Or want to start a fight, LOL.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: As for the AP program, its not my thing. I have the skills, but I'm not into the social aspects of the hobby to that degree. Not really interested in contests, conventions, or in building stuff just to suit the requirements that does not fit my layout goals. Sheldon
As for the AP program, its not my thing. I have the skills, but I'm not into the social aspects of the hobby to that degree. Not really interested in contests, conventions, or in building stuff just to suit the requirements that does not fit my layout goals.
Sheldon
Sheldon, you might think you have the skills but until your work is judged then you never really know. Don't take that as a knock on your hobby skills because it's not. I remember entering my first couple buildings to be judged and I was almost ready to quit after it was over. The judges can be brutally honest but it does make you want to be a better modeller. Or want to start a fight, LOL.
I'm with Sheldon on this one. I model to suit the chap wearing MY mocassins, not some judge who may have an agenda (I have met quite a few people who are still fighting WWII two thirds of a century after it ended.) Also, I readily admit that I'm not the social type. I was an NMRA member back when the Directory was part of the deal, and rejoined in the late '90s. The first time I found value in the organization, but let my membership lapse when I found myself squeezing every penny until Abe screamed in agony. The second time I found it not worth while. I have never been tempted to go to a convention or get involved at any other level.
I really don't care about becoming, "A better modeler." I'm happy being me. If this be heresy, so be it.
Chuck (Former NMRA member modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
BroadwayLion LION is not a member. I do not suspect that the Abbot would approve of such a membership. Heck I am lucky that he lets me be a member of the Dakota Zoo! I am a member of the Nurse's Association, I joined that out of college, mostly since I knew that I would be working alone and needed contact with other nurses. Mostly it has been a good thing, I have served as District President, I have served on the Political Action Committee and the Ethics Committee. I served on a working group set up by the Board of Nursing to help write new rules and regulations in accord with new state laws. ---BUT I am thoroughly disgusted with the ANA and their political actions and affiliations over the last two or three years. Were in not for my wanting to be a member of the NDNA, I would have long ago told national where they could stuff themselves: And boy would their proctolgist be surprised! GRRRR
LION is not a member. I do not suspect that the Abbot would approve of such a membership. Heck I am lucky that he lets me be a member of the Dakota Zoo!
I am a member of the Nurse's Association, I joined that out of college, mostly since I knew that I would be working alone and needed contact with other nurses. Mostly it has been a good thing, I have served as District President, I have served on the Political Action Committee and the Ethics Committee. I served on a working group set up by the Board of Nursing to help write new rules and regulations in accord with new state laws. ---BUT I am thoroughly disgusted with the ANA and their political actions and affiliations over the last two or three years. Were in not for my wanting to be a member of the NDNA, I would have long ago told national where they could stuff themselves: And boy would their proctolgist be surprised!
GRRRR
Wow. Not only speaks of himself in the third person, but somehow manages to reply to a post with NOTHING (capitalized in his honor) that has to do with the hobby or the post. Excellent use of forum space. But hey, gets your post count up!
I joined the NMRA in 2009 with the $9 dollar deal; my subsequent move overseas made not renewing an easy decision. Seeing a couple of the posts that have been made, I may need to reconsider - I'll be back eventually, and the hobby is bigger than my immediate perspective.
I'm trying to model 1956, not live in it.
Instead of repeating what others have said more eloquently than I could (especially Mike), I'll just say that I too am a member. Do I like writing out a check for $66 each year? Not particularly. But I have to remind myself that most of my closest modeling friends are also members and that I met them through my NMRA division.
I also enjoy our local meetings, seeing other people's modeling work, visiting their layouts and attending conventions. I'm active in my local division which makes a big difference in getting to know other members. I know I'd really miss all of those things if I didn't renew.
In the end, I have to remind myself that I have enjoyed being a member for many years. And the cost of a membership is about equal to a meal or two with my wife at a modestly priced restaurant. I enjoy a good meal, but the price of a membership provides me with a year of fun and activities.
Also, attending national and regional conventions has allowed me to meet and hear clinics by modelers I would never otherwise have the opportunity to encounter.
Jim
Ditto what Roger Said!!! (Hi Roger!)
I joined the NMRA when I got back into the hobby several years ago. I am currently the Superintendent of the Lakeshores Division, NFR, NMRA. I am doing my best to get a lot more going in my division to support and proivide fun in the hobby to our membership. We have been running some operations events over the Winter which have been well received by those (few) who have participated. I great deal of the fun of membership is the local division.
Take advantage of the things offered and become a participant. Those that seem to have the most fun are those who go to meets, give clinics, serve the division, region, or national some capacity. There are many jobs needing to be done. I got "Railroaded" into mine!
I have been working the AP program and it has been the biggest help to my skills as a modeler of any of the things I do (Including being here at this site and some others). I currently have earned Golden Spike (Not really an AP certificate), Electrical, Civil, Scenery, and Association Official certificates. I will have Volunteer finished by early fall. Also currently looking towards Structures and have earned one Merit Award for the Engine House I built last year. I have a couple others done that will be used for the ones that do not have to earn a Merit award, so I am on my way.... Not started yet will be "Cars". That one I still have to build a lot of skills before my work will measure up.
I have been very lucky to have a few mentors for me in my division (two have earned Master Model Railroader and one just had his application signed by the Region). All of them have my gratitude for the time and teaching they have given to me as I walk the path of the hobby. BTW, Roger Hensley was one person who helped to boost me along the way (He probably doesn't even remember it). I sent in a set of photos to him for a scratch building showcase on the NMRA website several years ago, and got a great note from him saying he liked the work and was putting it up on the page. I now look at those photos, shake my head and say, "What was I thinking, those aren't at all up to the standard I have for my work today"!
Hope you have a great time as an NMRA member. Yes there are some curmudgeons in the group, just stay clear of them and hang out with those who like to smile a lot. They will be the ones who become friends and help you along the way.
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
mlehman ... it's mostly a way to get more out of the hobby and to also contribute to it.
... it's mostly a way to get more out of the hobby and to also contribute to it.
Emphasis added. Well said, Mike.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
NP2626I'm unsure if I will become a permanent member when my "Railpass" membership runs out. I am doing some study to attempt to see what the NMRA is all about.
I posted several comments on your similar thread in the other forum, I won't repeat those here. Membership without the magazine is currently $44 in the US.
My only additional suggestion is that if you want to fully "study" the organization that you try to take advantage of divisional and regional activities to see what that's about. There you'll meet people who are active in the NMRA and who can give you a better view, perhaps, than forum comments from folks who have never been NMRA members, or at least not for many years.
Yes, I'm a NMRA member, in fact, the local (Illinois Terminal Division) division superintendent. Our division is one of those spread over a wide area with relatively low population. In the age of expensive gas, it's hard to get people together physically, although we try as best we can.We're also working on new sorts of outreach and activities, like our website (http://itd.illinoisterminaldivision.org/news.php) although If I can get my dissertation done this year, it'll help a bunch with having time devote to such efforts, along with others active in our local division.
I think you're actually asking two questions about the value of membership. First, the cost in money. Let's be frank. Some people can't afford any luxuries or just a few luxuries in life. Some of those people are model railroaders. Spending any money on model railroading is, undoubtedly, a luxury and not a necessity. There's no need to have an elaborate rationale for not being an NMRA member, if it's a dollars and cents matter.
Second, the NMRA is a membership organization. It depends on people getting involved and helping others, all in the interests of promoting one's own skills as a model railroader and of the hobby as a whole.
As a former executive officer of a non-profit that owns a building and operates programs with a global reach, I'm very familiar with the sort of members who have high expectations of their membership, yet expect all that work to be done by someone else -- and when it's doesn't go the way THEY want it to, then they get all bent out of shape. The NMRA has a few members like that, fortunately not many around here, but far more ex-members like that [and I am NOT saying all ex-members are like this, follow along with me.] And that's probably a good thing, because members with high expectations combined with low levels of motivation to become involved aren't something that builds the strength of membership-based organizations.
I'm also an educator in my professional life. It's a fact that education is a two-way street. Both the teacher and student MUST be involved in the process. We've probably all sat next to the sort of student who puts out, at best, a D effort, and then gets all bent out of shape when they end up with a C, declaring it's all the teacher's fault for not keeping them interested enough to do well in the class to get a B or A.
Folks, I'm a teacher, not an entertainer. If you don't bring your interest and enthusiasm to class, I can't put it there for you. But in an era where kids don't think much once they get beyond the 140-character Twitter limit, attention span and enthusiasm for sustained and substantial learning are similarly limited in a way that's beyond my ability to affect on an individual basis. Either they think outside the box -- or they better learn to be comfortable inside it.
And we live in a time when, unfortunately in my view, some people like to reduce all things to a monetary value.
Enough philosophy. I'm completely neutral on whether or not any particular person should be a member, although I do believe that being an NMRA member, when combined with a personal interest and desire for involvement, is worth the investment in both time and money. But like any worthwhile endeavor, I also know that it takes more than my few membership dollars to make the organization valuable -- to me or anyone else.
So here's how I'd argue you should decide on the issue of NMRA membership.
If you're the sort of person who places most of the value you find in life on the financial bottom line, then membership in the NMRA, or any such membership organization for that matter, is probably a waste of your time. You'll always be expecting a lot and you're unlikely to contribute much, because that's your inclination. You'll be unhappy with what you get out of it, because your investment is primarily monetary, while NMRA benefits are mostly in the categories that have value that can't be quantified in such ways.
If your problem isn't so much the cost, but the way the NMRA operates, then there is only one way to change that -- join and actively participate. That's the way it is in any membership organization and the NMRA is no exception. It responds to those inside the organization who attend, participate, and vote. It's a matter of "social physics" -- don't complain that water is hard to push uphill, that's just a waste of time. Yes, you do have to "go with the flow" to a certain extent, but like any good membership organization, the input of members is welcomed and valued.
Most important of all, when constructive change is needed in any human endeavor, it most frequently is made by positive and creative action, not by simply tearing down what already exists. The NMRA is only as good as YOU make it. And if you're not there...well, it's usually not the NMRA that makes that decision with your checkbook. Only you can do that, but it's not the same as buying that shiny new piece of RTR rolling stock -- which can cost you as much or more than a NMRA membership these days. In part, sure it's a purchase, but it's mostly a way to get more out of the hobby and to also contribute to it.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
jerryl Not a member now. tried it in the past & found that the magazine had too much about elections, contest rules, qualifications for awards etc.
Not a member now. tried it in the past & found that the magazine had too much about elections, contest rules, qualifications for awards etc.
The NMRA now offers a reduced-price membership without the magazine.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Normal 0
Yes, the NMRA is worth the price to me. I joined in 1980 to support the hobby because of the Standards. In the ensuring years, I have been the Chief Clerk of the Central Indiana Division, MWR, NMRA, I have been the editor of the CID Rusty Spike, have put together the Standards and RPs on the NMRA website, have been Webmaster of the NMRA website and the CID website (where I still am Webmaster) have had my layout in three layout tours and am now busy building layouts at the Madison County Historical Society here in Anderson IN.
I have little interest in the AP Program but do hold the Author and Association certificates and have received the Golden Spike Award just for building a layout (well almost).
The current price of memberships at $66 doesn't seem bad to me. So, my answer is, Yes, it’s worth it. When I fell on 'bad times' a number of years ago, I dropped the subscriptions to the several modeling and railfan magazines that I was taking, but I kept my membership in the NMRA. Why? Well. I joined to return something to the hobby that I was a part of. I felt that by supporting the NMRA, I WAS supporting the hobby.
When the bad times came and I closed my business, it was the NMRA Bulletin and the CID 'Rusty Spike' that kept me in touch with the hobby even when there wasn't the money to go to the shows and meets and nothing available to buy anything for the railroad. Some of the tips and techniques that I found in the 'Bulletin' helped keep me modeling with an occasional bottle of paint and some common household items.
Now, that said, I will invite you to make a visit to our website at: http://cid.railfan.net for a look at the activities that we have including a meet photo album with pictures taken at out meets. We also have a page of club listings and photos from a number of layouts. In our case, the Central Indiana Division sends our newsletter the 'Rusty Spike' free to all NMRA members in the CID.
I find that I get a great deal of satisfaction knowing that I am contributing something to the hobby with my involvement in the NMRA. I have found a richness with my involvement that I never knew before. What has the NMRA done for the hobby lately? DCC
Need more?
Ciao
Roger Hensley= ECI Railroad - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/eci/eci_new.html == Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ =
While I have been most actively involved in R/C model airplanes since my late teens, when I got to building my current layout in 1988, I welcomed the fact that I could enjoy this hobby, without any need to be in a national organization. Had the NMRA not offered the "Rail Pass" option, it's not likely I would have joined the NMRA at $66.00 per year.
I'm unsure if I will become a permanent member when my "Railpass" membership runs out. I am doing some study to attempt to see what the NMRA is all about.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Yes I am, and I have been since 1970.
In a hobby where many of us spend thousands of dollars every year, I don't think NMRA dues are very high at all.
I am a small part of a group of members a working to bring back the Data Sheet program which was an important part of NMRA membership when I joined.
The Data Sheets provide endless model and prototype info and I still have my original set.
Dozens of basic questions that are asked on here over and over were at your finger tips in the original NMRA Data Sheets, hopefully we can have them return soon.
Not a member now. tried it in the past & found that the magazine had too much about elections, contest rules, qualifications for awards etc. Most hobbies settle on standards on their own & don't need recommended standards. I can remember back in the day when we had numerous coupler choices & it seems we have almost settled on the knuckle coupler without help from the NMRA. Also, one of the most popular DCC systems does not meet NMRA standards.
Also, I don't need an organization to tell me if I am a "Master Modeler" or not. I've been scratchbuilding for over 50 years & am happy with the results.
We also have many garden RRs in our area, & even with many of the owners members, they wouldn't advertise the local open house tour. I only attended 1 meet a year & took my grandson with me, so it didn't seem worth the investment. Just my opinion, you may have a more active division.
I joined way back in the early 1960's and have been a member since. I earned my Master Model Railroader #138, (which I know isn't important to some) but it made me work on my skills and my layout is better for it. I still remain pretty much a lone wolf mostly because of vocational choices, but now that I am retired, I am becoming more interested again.
Not everyone is a joiner, not everyone cares to improve their hobby skills, and I believe that generally the potential modelers today are too caught up in "what is it worth to me" thinking to realize a chance to learn new skills, meet some great new people (and some who are slobs) and on and on. I am not a poster boy for NMRA, but I go to the conventions, meets, local and statewide and enjoy the company of other modelers and enjoy having them visit my layout.
Bob Miller
I was an NMRA member way back in the early 80's but haven't been since then. Quite honestly, I've not had a need for it.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I have been a member since 1972.
Initially the dues were cheaper ($5 then), but they have risen over the years faster than inflation. Part of the problem is that those 19203 members don't all pay dues yearly - some 4000 or so are life members (program no longer available) who bought it when dues were a lot less.
Over the years the organization has changed from paying one part time person to do the administrative work out of his home to a buying a building and having a staff of individuals to support the organization.
But the NMRA hasn't published their budget for at least a couple of years now, so it's unclear where the money goes.
Benefits are:
The standards - everyone benefits from these, but some one has to actually do it. And while it doesn't get the glamor, it is very important.
The NMRA magazine. which has changed names over the years, has at times been excellent (during the years Whit Towers was the editor) to poor to fair (which is where I would rate it today).
Local activities depend on the region and division you're in and how often you take advantage of them - some are very good down to some that are almost non-existent. Although, you can attend activities outside your division/region. The national convention is supposed to be very good - if you can afford it.
Discounts on the occasional NMRA publication.
The Achievement Program. Reviewing the program you'll find it a mixed bag of skills demonstration, volunteer service, and subjective judging of your modeling. If you liked or missed out on the BSA merit badges, you may love this, otherwise it may not interest you.
Whether it all adds up to $66 in dues this year is a tough call. I don't make the decision until September, but will probably renew.
Paul
When I graduated from my 4 x 8 Lionel 0-27 layout to HO in the late 50's as soon as I could spare the membership fee I joined the NMRA. I was probably ten or eleven. My parents would drive me to the division meetings. The members welcomed me and were very supportive of my modeling efforts. I dropped out of the hobby when I discovery girls and cars. After purchasing my first house, with a nice dry basement I rejoined the hobby and the NMRA. The local division in Dayton, Ohio was and is very active, with some of the country's best modelers. In 1998 I move to western Colorado. With no local division, and any meetings and activities hours away, I let my membership lapse in 2002. The organization is responsible for the hobby being what it is today. I believe that the camaraderie is part of the benefit of membership. Is it worth $66.00? Not to me, but if you are in an area with other members it could be to you.
I have been a member 'off & on' since 1968, and a 'Life Member' since 1997. I am not big on organization, but I have been Board Member of my Region for 5 years, and a contest judge for over 15 years. This spring, I will be giving my first 'Clinic' at the Region's spring meet.
As you mentioned, 'standards' have been the most noticeable achievement from the NMRA. All of this from a 'volunteer' organization. Like the AMA, the cost of running an organization(and the liability insurance for flying your R/C airplane) makes the annual membership cost for both organizations rather high. The NMRA liability insurance protects you if you sponsor a 'layout tour' in conjunction with a Region meet.
You appear to be in Northern Minnesota - This is the Thousand Lakes Region of the NMRA. It has one of the largest areas in square miles, and lowest population densities. I live in Southern Minnesota(Rochester) and there are only 3 NMRA members that I am aware of here. There are a few more members in places like La Crosse, Winona, Mason City, Blue Earth, Fairmont, Windom, Estherville, and the Sioux Falls area.
As others have mentioned, the 'social' aspect of meeting other modelers at Region or Division meets offers something.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I am no longer a member of the NMRA. I had been a member in good standing for several years after joining up somewhere around 2003. I understand they have done a tremendous amount of good things for the hobby and continue to do so but on a personal membership level I did not take advantage of any of their offerings or programs. I had no interest in their AP programs, I am not a rivet counter, I found the magazine to be quite boring with little that interested me on most occasions and I continue to be lone wolf modeler so I was probably not NMRA material to begin with.
I never reached out to anyone in my local chapter and no one in the local chapter ever reached out me in the years I was a member. The only contact I had was the magazine and the renewal notices. For two years I was going to cancel but kept the membership active in hopes of becoming more involved. That did not happen so I did not renew my membership.
John R
John R.
Short answer. NO I'm done with groups and organizations.
"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"
EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION
http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588
1). Are you a member of the NMRA and if so why?
No
2). If you're not a member, why aren't you?
Even though one of my hobbies is model railroading, I have no interest or desire to hold a membership.
Inspired by Addiction
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Yes, I did mean the NMRA, thank you for catching that! It has been corrected.
I'm uncertain how to take your response: "The NMRA doesn't follow the GOOD ENOUGH attitude that most model railroaders have on this forum so for the majority of people it isn't worth it to them".
Certainly, endeavoring to improve one's skills and knowledge is a good thing that everyone can strive for! However, if the general attitude of the NMRA is promoting an exclusivity among members who've demonstrated great skills in the hobby, then it's no wonder membership is so low!
Having read over the AP program, I see this program as being a method for self improvement and not an exclusive club, so I think I'm miss-interpreting what you've said.
I'm a modeler, not a purchaser of RTR; or, ready built rolling stock and structures, so the AP program should be right in my wheelhouse! However, I wonder how many people in this hobby (today) are actually interesting in the modeling aspect of the hobby anymore, so maybe this is what your addressing?
Hi!
This is a very timely posting for me. Downstairs sits the annual renewal of the NMRA dues, which I am debating about paying - or not.
Although I've been a member for about 15 years, I have been totally inactive within the organization - as I am one of those Lone Wolf MRs. I joined to support the hobby, and to get the monthly magazine.
However, the annual dues have gone up quite a bit in the last few years, and are now at $66. And, in the last few years, I have rarely found anything of real interest to me.
Please understand, I am not criticizing the justification or amount of the dues or the fact the mags don't provide me with much entertainment anymore; I am just expressing my view on the subject.
Will I renew? I honestly don't know at the moment. But I guess I will in the the next couple of days.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I have been involved with model railroading off and on since I was 6-8 years old and I'm going to be 62 shortly. I have always been interested in the NMRA; but, sorta wondered how much "Bang" you get for the "Buck"? I knew that the NMRA was involved in setting standards for model railroading and without question this is probably reason enough to support the organization.
It seems to me that just a few short years ago, membership dues were somewhere around $35.00 per year, now they are $44.00 with an additional $22.00 if you opt. to take the NMRA Magazine. However, I found that the organization now offers a 6 month "Rail Pass" trial membership for $9.95 and have taken advantage of this offer!
My other hobby, R/C model airplanes has a national organization which I am currently a member of. This is the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA). The AMA has close to 150,000 members and my guess is that model aviation (as a hobby) has twice that amount of model aviation enthusiasts. The NMRA, as of the end of 2011, had only 19,203 members!! It appears to me that only a very-very-very small proportion of model railroaders choose to support the NMRA!
So, my questions are: