What Really Keeps People From This Hobby?

[Anonymous]

Great post and comments!
I jumped feet-first back into the hobby several years ago after 'setting out- bad order' ing the ex that was keeping me from it (not the reason we departed ways,though) and won't look back. My daughter has shown interest and I have included her in the layout building when I can.
Trying to look through her eyes in a town where railroads aren't prevalent and all she's seen of it is MY interest, the layout, the occasional track-side photo excursions while on a vacation, a train ride here-and-there, and a dad that's a train nut I honestly can't see her being interested in the hobby as she grows older. But then, I don't know of many female model railroders either!
So I guess what I'm saying is what kept me away for so many years was a negative input from a significant other.
Space has got to be a major concideration for many- I'm an apartment dweller and have sacrificed my bedroom for a layout. I had to change to n-scale because of the limitations of an apartment.
As far as the 'geek factor' goes- I have experienced this...my employer built a web-site show-casing each employee and what their interests were (which we filled out a form for) and wouldn't ya know- my interests in railfanning and model railroading are NOT on the site. Man, I wi***he rest of the stigmatized world would just grow-up and buy a train set!

[BRAKIE]

yankeejwb said: Personally, I think part of the exposure problem is due to the fact that many model railroad clubs are like the one in my area: full a grumpy retirees who've formed a clique and eye newcomers suspiciously. I walked into one local hobby shop and the immediate impression was twofold:
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Absolutely! I have seen this many times with modular clubs at Train Shows.During the show attendees will ask questions some get a half reply while others get that " Are you talking to me look?".and that all famous "Don't bother me look" or gets completely ignored.Surely this is a good image for the hobby and all hobbyist in general? [}:)] NOT!

[Anonymous]

I guess I'm curious how real everyone feels the 'geek' factor is ?

I'm old enough now not to give a damn what anyone else thinks about what I do and I think a lot of people start to feel that way somewhere past 25. I can certainly see how it's a much bigger issue for younger modelers, but then again, as I remember my teenage days, EVERYBODY had some kind of 'hang up', peer issue or just plain out of control teenage hormones. :-)

So, I guess my question to folks (maybe over 25 or so), is there really a 'geek' factor or a 'stigma' factor ? I find it kinda hard to believe and in fact most people I know around my age (early 40's) wouldn't think anything of my interest in model railroading.

[krump]

having just hit my 4rth decade, most of my friends could care less about my hobby (hobbies) - I fish with some, hunt with none, and enjoy the model rr hobby with the club.

I don't consider it a geek factor - many others my age are fascinated with the hobby, just not involved

my wife figures it's more of a geezer factor --- I'm the youth of the group, 10 yrs younger than the next guy, but 25-30 yrs younger than most... I can live with that, they may not be my peers, but they are my buddies, my mentors, my hobby colleagues.[^]

[Roadtrp]

II don't really think there is a 'geek factor' to model railroading. As for teens, MR just isn't in the list of priorities, and probably never will be. For a teen guy the priorities are:

1) Cars
2) Girls
3) Music

There just isn't anything that is ever going to change that. For you women that think girls are number one...

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[(-D][(-D]

Sorry... Any teen guy will take a hot car over a hot girl any old day. The car will still be in the garage tomorrow. Who knows where the girl will be?

[;)][;)]

[Anonymous]

I don't think people are kept from this hobby.

I feel trains are like musical tastes: either you like Jazz (or whatever style you like) or you don't. I think it is biological, certain people are drawn to trains. There is no easy explanation, no theorem, no magic words that will turn people into train fans. I think that those who love trains are always going to love trains, and that those who don't will always be scratching their heads. All the budding train fan needs is a little exposure from people who are not too over the top about the hobby.

NMRA studies show that kids who like trains, are into trains until they get into their mid teens and cars, girls, jobs, kids etc. take attention elsewhere. When these people get a little older, buy a house , make some cash (they are going to need it), they come back to the hobby. Hence the large number of older modelers.

As to the geek factor: It is there. It is a perception by people who are not around many modelers. It is also perpetuated by many of the stereotypes mentioned by other posts. I always tread lightly when discussing the hobby with people who are not modelers. It is easy to get carried away....


My two cents,

Guy

[krump]

perhaps it's a geep factor, and I simply misunderstood ???

cheers

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by plane_crazy

I guess I'm curious how real everyone feels the 'geek' factor is ?

I think the “Geek” factor is more of an issue than people would like to admit. Of course it’s far more an issue in the adolescent years. Yes, other things will naturally distract teens away from this hobby, but in most cases it’s just not cool to admit your into Model Railroading (as well as a number of other hobbies & activities). Talking with teens and parents of teens has underscored the fact that our current culture is far tougher on teens than ever. The pressure to fit in and be accepted by the mainstream crowd is enormous (the “herd” mentality).

Conventional thinking states that the “geek” factor should stop being an issue when people enter their 20’s. But I wonder if this is not so true anymore. There has been a trend termed as “extended adolescence” (also referred to as the “Peter Pan Syndrome”) occurring whereby people in their 20’s are still acting as though they are in their teens. Many studies seem to indicate that the maturity level of the current generation in their 20’s is far lower than those of fifty years ago.

Then there are those few that just don’t care what other people think. It’s a nice trait to have, but not many these days have it.

Like I said, this is one of a few things that have been working against this (and other) hobby(s). That’s why I think it’s important to reach kids before the pressure of the teens years set in. Hey, maybe if enough of a given generation enters their teen years interested in MRR’ing, it will be considered a “cool” thing to do as a sizable MRR “herd” will have established itself.

[bcammack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp
Sorry... Any teen guy will take a hot car over a hot girl any old day. The car will still be in the garage tomorrow. Who knows where the girl will be?

And you can lease a car! [:D] [:D] [:D]

[Anonymous]

I think the "geek" factor also applies to many adults. I bet many people have found out that neighbors, co-workers, etc., were model railroaders but never mentioned it. I think many adults don't spread the word around for fear they will be seen as "playing with trains" - a child's activity. When our club has local shows, people come out of the woodwork and buy all kinds of stuff, and its mostly for themselves and not their children.

I think the hobby can be perceived as being a geek hobby - adults who play golf, go hunting, fishing, etc., are never at a loss to describe their latest conquest to anyone within hearing distance. But model railroaders don't boast in a mixed crowd that they've just scratchbuilt something! "You scratched WHAT?" [:O]

Bob Boudreau
Proud of my Hobby! [8D]

[Anonymous]

We have not had a layout since the late ninetys and between us have
as many diesles alone as medium railroad.I sat here thinking of the front room
eyed the baywindow and thought of a good size switching layout where detail
be more then size.

I cannot say why as many are into other hobbys but we here in Saint
John really lack a hobby shop with down to Earth prices.many young modelers
are not able to put out as much as 200 for Atlas ect..we need to be more in
the realm of used engines as found at the last train show.

I was proud how many young people are in the hobby.

God protect as guide us

David

[Anonymous]

Have you seen these new video games on the Microsoft XBox and the Sony PSII systems? I have to admit it is amazing stuff. You become part of the game.......your friend at his home (or someone else across the continent) is also part of the game via a broadband connection. You work together to achieve a mission or a goal, such as on a battlefield. Unbelievable graphics and communication abilities.

Some people mentioned RC stuff. I watch my kids and thier friends in the back yard. That stuff is also amazing. The electronics have really evolved. They get so much power out of these rechargebale battery sticks. And the models with the fuel engines are little rockets. So, jumping ramps, getting big air, racing, big smash ups, hill climbing and 4-wheeling, chasing cats and other animals. Its a rowdy thing going on. And since these things always need to be repaired, and upgraded, the boys gain mechanical and electrical skills.

"Geeky?" You bet it is for a teen, or even a pre-teen. I think my boys keep the MR to themselves. And I've heard comments out of other boy's mouths about the weirdness of the hobby. Our small layout is in my home office, partly because a MR is not healthy around a bunch of rowdy teenagers. My kids have never brought their friends to see the layout.

One thing about "geeky." I shoot ducks every winter. Lots of people have made comments (behind my back) about me. That I'm stupid, weird, Elmer Fudd, etc for hiding in a salt marsh before dawn, making duck sounds with a call.

So why are my sons interested in model railroading? They have the video games and the RC trucks. The fall is crowded with Pop Warner/HS football and hunting. What makes a boy come in from all the rowdiness and mayhem and noise, and go nose to nose with a little locomotive, guiding it to couple up with a string of cars? Or to think of more ways to make an area on the layout look more realistic?

Its the Railroad Gene. Like so many of you have mentioned exposure to trains. There is a gene in our DNA that either gets triggered or stays off. You either understand trains, or you don't. Not much gray area. You get it, or don't. And if that gene gets turned on, as we all know, it lasts your entire life. As my kids grew up, we spent many a long weekend in Strassburg, Pa ------people call it "train city." We often slept in a real caboose (Conrail, of course, when ever it was available) at the Red Caboose Motel in Stassburg. The gene was triggered!

And "Roadtrp," its not just boys that put cars above girls. My son has a Good Charlotte CD, maybe you've seen the music video, song goes ....

Girls don't love boys
Girls love cars and money .......

Jim

[Anonymous]

IMHO, its the geek factor. I'm 41 and enjoy golf, hunting fishing, NASCAR, football, hockey, etc with the guys. But mention model railroading and the first response is, "You play with trains? aren't you a little for that?"

I received a train set for Christmas when I was 10 and have loved the hobby ever since. I had to go into the closet for 30 years before I returned to the hobby. Now my layout is bigger than ever and well detailed. I have spent a ton of money on layout construction, rolling stock, buildings, engines, etc. When I show it to one of my friends, they still think of it as playing with trains, they have no idea of the time or cost put into my mini-empire.

Enjoy it for what it is to you, share it if you can, but be prepared to be labeled as a geek.

I'm proud to be a part of the geek, I mean railraoding community.

[bcammack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgoodlander
But mention model railroading and the first response is, "You play with trains? aren't you a little old for that?"

I usually reply, "No, and apparently neither was Frank Sinatra, nor is Neil Young." [}:)]

[Junctionfan]

I was in a club that was more interested in politics than running trains. We voted in a horrible president who caused alot of turmoil and helped create factions. Half of the club was invited in a secret meeting to vote out 3 members for no good reason. At the next meeting they gave them a signed petition saying they had to leave. This ended up spliting up the club. 10 of us including the 3 ex members founded another club and a few others left out of discust. After this I hear the president threw out more members for reasons including "asking to many questions". Eventually the owner of the hobbyshop who we were above and owned the building, called the president. The owner said he was sick and tired of hearing that people were getting kicked out for no good reason. He also reminded the president that this was supposed to be fun. The president replied that he was the president and that he had every right to because it was in the constitution. The owner said he did give a #%$% about the constitution and said that he was the owner and if need be he would change the locks. The arguement continue until the owner said that if the president had a problem understanding his views that maybe he should resign. The president ended up throwing his keys in and leaving soon after. This unfortunate incident is true and I feel sorry for that club because it was a good club but most of us came to run trains not get drunk with power that counts for nothing really.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgoodlander
But mention model railroading and the first response is, "You play with trains? aren't you a little old for that?"

I usually reply, "No, and apparently neither was Frank Sinatra, nor is Neil Young." [}:)]

[:D]

I like that response. This past weekend the Canadian Railway Museum at St. Constant (near Montreal) featured model railroad layouts in a variety of gauges on the second floor of the spanking new multi-million dollar main building. The crowds on both Saturday and Sunday were absolutely fascinated by our layouts, no questions asked as to why grown men were playing with trains. The background music included Glenn Miller, Dizzy Gillespie, and Frank Sinatra -"I Do It My Way", of course. We weren't aware that Frank was singing about model trains!

Oh yes, not to forget, also Franky Lane singing "Mule Train", but that's a mule of another colour!
[:D]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwmurrayjr



The Star Trek fan magazine has a higher circulation than Model Railroader. That probably indicates that we MRR folks are geekier (A more unique group) than the "Trekies".

Well, Ahh.....No.... not by a very very long shot.....

I have been to many many train shows, swap meets and the like, and living in the same town where the biggest Trek convention is held every year , I have had a unique opportunity to view both species of geekdom. We a re a minor species of geekness.


At every train show of course there always the overzealous grandpa wearing the engineers overalls and blowing the toot toot engine whistle, or the evil rivet counting old fart peeing on everyone elses models but his own spectaucular model he keeps droning on about that no else has ever seen and which he didnt want to bring and display because of "all the dam kids would break it" kinda guy, but by FAR the vast majority are just regular folk, in regular cloths, just sharing their hobby....We can be spread out among the different aspects of this hobby and not be offended by the other aspects of it, railfanning, modeling, collecting, all have their pratictioners. We still look normal, often with wife and kids along. When we model a scene or a peice of rolling stock its just that, a scene, a diorama, a slice of reality or of a past reconstructed on our layouts.

At the Trek conventions...Oh My Gawd! There, the majority are just plain freaky, in full uniform, with full body makeup and costume, some talking only in Klingon or Vulcan, or some other Gibberish. I have been a fan of Trek since the early 70's but have never let the fact that it's mearly a TV show escape my sense of reality. Some of these people have NO sense of reality, they will tell you what there rank is and what starship they serve on and go on and on about why the Federation is better than the Klingons or who ever. Its a 24/7/365 days a year LIFESTYLE for a lot of them, Star Wars fans are just as psychotic. I went to a Trek convention just ONCE, I went in, got the creepiest feeling walking around looking at 5'x5' oil paintings of Patrick Stewert and giant wall size murals of the crews, and was just plain weirded out! I started hearing the the voice of Robot from Lost in Space, "Danger! Danger!" and was out of there in less that 1/2 an hour, running out would be a better description.

My favorite scene from a subsequent Trek convention was seeing a group of fully costumed Klingons standing on the corner...waiting for the BUS! That or the beat to hell up '81 Toyota Tercel with the "Starfleet Academy" and "My other car is the starship enterprise" bumber stickers all over it.. Ever since that I have never regained the same fandom I had before, I just enjoy watching the movies for what they are, entertainment. Just like my hobby now, its there for me to enjoy, not obsess over.

To TRUELY experience a LITTLE of the extreme discomfort I felt at that convention, look for a video documentary called "Trekkies" they have it at Blockbuster. It will wierd you out and make you laugh at the same time.

[Anonymous]

There are geeks, and then there are creeps. Some of the guys in this hobby make me nervous. Take your pick - lack of hygene, over zealousness, overall creepy appearance. There's a guy that works for a shop here in the Atlanta area that seemed on the brink of snapping and going postal if I asked one more question.

Based on some of the other posts, he's not the only one out there.

[bcammack]

If you think Trekkie conventions are strange, don't ever go to a gamer/anime convention! [:)]

[dano99a]

Double your fun of TOTAL weirdness go to the DRAGONCON in Atlanta it's the nations LARGEST convention for sci-fi fans.

My brother goes to this every year and takes about 50 rolls worth of digital pictures of just the people? You'll see Trekkies, Dungeons & Dragons people, Anime, Magic the gathering gamers, Vampires, sci-fi TV show fans etc. etc. etc. and a person dressed up looking like something I see living in one of my engine houses on my layout. (spider? bug thing...)

So, yeah we are kinda odd but WE DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE to those folks. We're not even in the same ball park.

[vsmith]

I just got the DVD from the Conan O'Brian Shows,

"the Best of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog"

one bit has Triumph interviewing Star Wars fans (Starries? or Warties?) that had lined up for weeks before the last movie opened and asking questions like...

" Have you ever talked to a women without having to give her your credit card number first?"

or pointing to Darth Vader's chest and asking....

"Which one of these buttons calls your parents to come pick you up!"

[Anonymous]

Just a thought, Too much babysitting by the TV, Gameboy, etc.

If Parents got more involved with their children, at the modeling level, the hobby would not see such a decrease in participants.

With such electronic 'games' available and not much Parental input required, this hobby, along with all modeling venues, will become extinct in a the course of this Century.

Anyone seen models in the latest Feature Film??? Computer generated images rule.

[randybc2003]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgoodlander
But mention model railroading and the first response is, "You play with trains? aren't you a little old for that?"

I usually reply, "No, and apparently neither was Frank Sinatra, nor is Neil Young." [}:)]

Or Yule Brinner or Joe DiMagio (sp?)
[:D][:D]

[Jetrock]

In terms of general weirdness, model railroading is probably the LEAST weird hobby I ever had...in fact, one of the things that kept me out of model railroading was the fact that it seemed like such a NORMAL activity. Of course, I spent most of my twenties at punk shows, industrial clubs, experimental/noise performances and otherwise on the fringes of the music/art world, looking for weird things to do and bad things to do to my hairstyle.

Model railroaders comprise about .1% of the population. This means that there are ten times as many "one-percenters" (a term that outlaw bikers used to describe themselves) as model railroaders.

As far as the "aren't you a little old for that?" remark, well, for starters, I never get it, and second, most of the folks I see in a hobby shop are far older than me (I'm 35.)

One other point and I'll try to get down off this soapbox.

YOU DO NOT WANT MODEL RAILROADING TO BECOME UNIVERSALLY POPULAR.

Because, quite frankly, when the masses get their hands on something neat and unique they invariably destroyed it. Remember how I mentioned above that I went to punk shows and goth/industrial clubs? Not to sound TOO snobbish, but I did both before it became popular, when Green Day was still playing dinky clubs in the East Bay and Marilyn Manson was still working in a record store. Both scenes were pretty small, but they were comfortable communities unto themselves, with close-knit social ties and informal networks of their own. When they became popularized, HORDES of idiots who had no idea of the history, culture or significance of these scenes crowded into shows with their mall-bought spiked leather jackets or cheapo Dracula capes or what have you, generally behaving like idiots, driving those who DID "get it" into seclusion or out of the scene entirely, and generally leaving these scenes a broken shell of their former selves.

Imagine, for example, that model railroading becomes the new hip fad. But rather than buying realistic, well-made trains and integrating them into interesting or realistic layouts (prototype or freelance), people bought, en masse, the cheapest, crappiest, least reliable train-set stuff, and paid through the NOSE for it. Hobby shops jack up their prices on everything, stop carrying craftsman kits and detail parts because "nobody cares about that stuff", and when things get REALLY popular, chains of national hobby shops make a deliberate effort to stamp out local hobby shops by undercutting costs and predatory marketing practices. Popular hobby companies start producing cheap, poorly-made, goofy Day-Glo plastic trainsets in outrageously cheap soft plastic, and they outsell every other product they ever produced by 100 to 1.

All the folks who buy these cruddy trains set them up on their living room floor in an oval and run them around and around at maximum speed. Some of them, hearing that brass trains and the other quality lines are better and "a good investment", buy them up (again driving up the price.) Half store their stock away and never use it for anything for fear of damaging their investment. The other half run them on the living room floor until the motors get clogged with carpet lint and throw them in the trash.

Two years later, the fad passes. The chain store liquidates their stock of cheap trainset stuff and buys a huge stock of the new mass craze, origami paper folding. Almost none of the old independent model railroad hobby shops survive, and when you mention that you're a model railroader people look at you like you showed up at a formal dinner in a leisure suit with leg warmers on. In twenty years a nostalgia fad reappears, but the only thing people remember about the Great Model Railroad Fad is the cheap crappy popular trainset trains.

This sounds like silly hyperbole but it is pretty much exactly what happened to several of the music scenes I was involved with in the 80's and 90's, both of which are still in the process of recovering from the curse of being popular. Trust me, you DON'T want it to happen.

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock



YOU DO NOT WANT MODEL RAILROADING TO BECOME UNIVERSALLY POPULAR.

Because, quite frankly, when the masses get their hands on something neat and unique they invariably destroyed it....

This sounds like silly hyperbole but it is pretty much exactly what happened to several of the music scenes I was involved with in the 80's and 90's, both of which are still in the process of recovering from the curse of being popular. Trust me, you DON'T want it to happen.

You make a very interesting observation. But I wonder if this hobby would ever appeal to the masses to begin with?

The example you used of the music scenes concerned something that had the potential to reach a wider general market (at least after the big corporations were done with it). I don’t think this hobby has that kind of potential. It has been pointed out that there will be natural constraints to involvement (ie: not everyone is going to be interested in trains). Also, maybe it's just not "cool" enough to exploit?

No offense, but it could also be argued that the music scene you were part of was itself a passing fad which may never recover. Maybe we’re seeing the same thing slowly happen in MRR’ing?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by norboy

Anyone seen models in the latest Feature Film??? Computer generated images rule.

Not sure if you have seen how they made special effects for The Lord of The Rings trilogy, but they used both computer imaging and models. Hell in fact, they constructed so good of models, that often they shot a whole take, one shot, with a single model that you see on screen. I own the platinum version of the first two movies (waiting for the third to come out) and I tell you, the models featured on the making of are to drool for.

[tstage]

QUOTE: [i]
Two years later, the fad passes. The chain store liquidates their stock of cheap trainset stuff and buys a huge stock of the new mass craze, origami paper folding. Almost none of the old independent model railroad hobby shops survive, and when you mention that you're a model railroader people look at you like you showed up at a formal dinner in a leisure suit with leg warmers on.

Jetrock,

Beautiful! Well thought out and expressed. (That last line had me in stitches. [(-D]) I agree with you in many respects. I'm usually of the mind set that if something I like becomes popular "to the masses", I usually become disinterested in it for that very reason.

Tom

[bcammack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

YOU DO NOT WANT MODEL RAILROADING TO BECOME UNIVERSALLY POPULAR.

What you describe is eerily simila to what happened to slot car racing in the 60s... [:(]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock



Because, quite frankly, when the masses get their hands on something neat and unique they invariably destroyed it. Remember how I mentioned above that I went to punk shows and goth/industrial clubs? Not to sound TOO snobbish, but I did both before it became popular, when Green Day was still playing dinky clubs in the East Bay and Marilyn Manson was still working in a record store. Both scenes were pretty small, but they were comfortable communities unto themselves, with close-knit social ties and informal networks of their own. When they became popularized, HORDES of idiots who had no idea of the history, culture or significance of these scenes crowded into shows with their mall-bought spiked leather jackets or cheapo Dracula capes or what have you, generally behaving like idiots, driving those who DID "get it" into seclusion or out of the scene entirely, and generally leaving these scenes a broken shell of their former selves.

Jetrock

You just described the rise and fall of the Punk movement in one paragraph.

I remember when Black Flag was just becoming popular and the Dead Kennedy's were only a Bay Area band, only coming to LA occasionally just to get beat up by the LAPD.

By the time I was turned on to the Punk scene in the early 80's it was already dead. Nazi-punk skin heads were causing fights at almost every event and it was getting very very ugly.

As for the universality of model railroading I agree with your point, as soon as anything becomes a FAD its destined for a hard bad fall. All the fads I can remember growing up have gone thru similar phases. BMX and Skateboarding back in the late 70's were HUGE, then went down the tubes, it took the X games to truely resurect it. Roller skating was enormous in the early eighties then went Crash only to revive in the 90's with roller blades then go down in flames again.

And most recently Mountain Biking is a good example of why becoming a popular fad is not a good thing. Back when I started in the early 90's a GOOD starter bike was around $300 without a suspension fork, those were new technology and expensive ($500) so we learned to ride without them. That means we learned how to pick the smoothest line, how to clean drops, and climb efficiently. When the forks got less expensive ($200-$300 average) all of us upgraded and loved the results we could ride faster, climb better and didnt get the heck beat of us on a rough trail. During this time the number of Mtn Bikers was still small, you'd stop and talk to others you saw on the trail or at least say hello as they passed by, we were still on realitivly good terms with hikers and equestrians, always stopping to let horses go by so they wouldnt spook.

Then came the downhill racers. Downhilling was how the sport got started back in the 70s but it s was slower and you had to be more carefull. But these guys started adding more suspension, more technology, and much more expense to these types of bikes. These bikes were much faster, could absorb big hits and carve thru corners, they also brought the X-type riders who knocked hikers off trails, blasted by terrified horse riders, and brought the whole "in your Face" rudeness to the sport.

But of course the sport grew in popularity, wildly, especially after riders started hucking big air riding off cliff faces or log titer-toters in BC Canada. It drew in the big money types, cheap mountain bike knockoffs started showing up at Wal-mart and Targets. The older bike companies and component makers started heading for the boutique market and the prices started to skyrocket. Bikes got more and more suspension, and more and more expensive, some as high as $4000, a "good" starter bike today averages $1500 but I dont go to alot of the old trails i used to, too many complete idiots have ruined the sport. People think there $60 Wal-mart wonderbike is a "real" mountian bike and get frustrated when it breaks or worse when they find out you get what you pay for. Today, show up at the trailhead with any ride that doesnt have 4" of suspension travel front and rear and wearing your full body armor riding gear covering up your 15 body piercings and tatoos and swearing like a Bad-mutha Gang-banger, other riders look at you like you some kind of freak from the dark ages.

So YES I Agree, I DO NOT want to see Model RRing become a popular FAD!
Let those who are interested in, encourage participation, and welcome newbies. But keep it the hell away from big money corporations and groups who just want to make money off soemthings popularity.

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by vsmith
But keep it the hell away from big money corporations and groups who just want to make money off something's popularity.


Ah, Unfortunately I think this is already happening. Think about it.

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