What Really Keeps People From This Hobby?

[twhite]

whoops, hit the wrong button and I was just getting started. Obviously, computers are still not my forte. At any rate, despite those two aforementioned strikes, there's hardly a day goes by that when my garage door (the ubiquitous California Basement) is open and I'm out there working on the model railroad, that I don't get one or two kids wandering in going WOW! I think what would help most is for those of us with layouts is to let people SEE them while we're working on them. Mine's always open when I'm out there, now I've got family, friends, and professional associates dropping by to see the progress. I've even got an operatic Tenor that I accompany thinking about starting one, and believe me, nobody can talk an operatic Tenor into ANYTHING! As to the prices, well, I've been in this hobby a good many years, and the chunk the hobby has taken out of my paycheck has remained pretty concistent along with inflation, raises, etc. And remember, folks, you don't have to replace or upgrade a locomotive every few years like a computer or a DVD or CD player, right? I do not think that model railroading is going to die out, as long as we remember to be enthuiastic about it. Which means, let people SEE what we're doing, don't keep it a big secret (Uncle Elmer says he's got some trains in the attic, but he never lets me see them). A smile and an explanation about what you're doing and trying to accomplish will get you one Hell of a lot further than a bark and a slap (physical or emotional) slap on the wrist.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bryant01

People generally seem to have a vague notion of what model railroading is all about. The modular set-ups I have seen at the mall will indeed attract attention as a curiosity and prompt passers-by to host their children on their shoulders to see the "toy trains". But this kind of spectator curiosity is of the sort one finds in a glass-blowing exhibition. There is seldom a thought of obtaining a deeper understanding ...
Bryant

But if you talk to many modelers, you will find their passion for the hobby was birthed while, as a wide-eyed little child, looking with amazement at a public setup somewhere with running trains.

So those "children on their shoulders" are the next generation of modelers, likely fascinated with the hobby from that experience. More than just a passing curiosity, I'd say.

I doubt many of those same children view glass blowing with the same "I'm going to do that someday" sort of fascination as they do with the model trains.

[Anonymous]

I would say that, at least over here, public perception of the hobby plays a major part. Building model trains is seen as something a bit geeky and very unfashionable - I know from bitter experience at high school never to mention my hobby when I meet people! Interestingly the computing enthusiasts amongst my friends are the most receptive to my talking trains - at least, they are very accepting! I guess it's because building PCs from parts (as I've also done) shares a lot of similar skills to model railroading. Interestingly this may change - Hornby's profits have risen steadily for the last few years, so there must be a lot of equipment being sold to a large number of modellers. It's intriguing that Radio Control models are seen as "cool toys" - maybe the new Hornby live steamer could get into a similar market? I could see one alongside the high-powered PC and Hi-Fi system of "the man who has everything", assuming a suitable easy-to-build layout was available (the "layout in a box" idea definitely has potential to attract new modellers). DCC could have similar impact, especially with sound - even my non-railroading friends are impressed with my LGB 0-4-0 steamer (from the starter set) with onboard sound - I think it adds the finishing touch, especially in larger scales. Roco had the right idea (in my opinion) with their "Digital is cool" slogan!

I think percieved high prices also put many people off. I say percieved as model railroading doesn't have to be expensive by any means - Bachmann locos in HO and N can be had new for under £20 over here and will still aquit themselves well when you start buying more expensive locos - I have three of their GP-series locos, one in particular (A NS GP50) runs as smoothly and quietly as Proto locos for less than half the price.

[Anonymous]

I am sure that cost, perception,space, etc. are all "limiting factors" that may well have a great amount of bearing on whether or not someone gets involved in model RR'ing (or not).... but I am wondering if it does not go farther back in each of our lives than those "present factors" ?

How many of us were "drawn" to the hobby without a previous exposure to model RR's or Real railroads in our early years ? The young members among us have been drawn to RR'ing by their starter train sets (and maybe their Dad wanting to get another chance to run trains again...).

Maybe there are not that many among us, who had no such "early exposure" and just suddenly wanted to start a layout. I guess what I am trying to say is maybe what keeps people from this hobby was that they missed out on that magical time back then....

[tstage]

This has been a great post! I've read some of the responses all the way through, while others I just scanned. I haven't really run across a particular response that I've disagreed with yet. I will briefly add on top of two comments that have already been made - time and patience.

Time: Families and individuals are SO busy these days - and the choices SO many - when you do have a little extra free time on hand, most folks would rather plop themselves in front of the tube and "vedge"(sp?), because they are too tired to think or do anything else. One of the nice things about model railroading is that I can sometimes "multitask " - i.e. listen to a CD, tape, or a Cleveland Indians game, while I'm building or painting a kit.

Patience: We unfortunately live in a "I want it now", "extreme", instant gratification society. ( I sure hope the word "extreme" never comes about describing model railroading. That would truly be a shame.) Be honest. Building your "empire" - however large or small it might be - doesn't happen overnight. And most folks, if they can't have it NOW, wont' even bother to take the time and effort to learn and enjoy it. Attitudes have to change before that will happen. (And that's a much deeper topic than can be shared adequately in a forum like this.)

Do you think they'll ever have a reality show (like "Extreme Makeover") where a bunch of rabid MRer's converge onto your home and build your dream layout in 24 hours? Nahhhhh!

Tom

[grayfox1119]

This is one of the most interesting forum discussions I have read. I understand each point everyone made, and agree with most. For me, (age 65), my early years were steam. We would stand on a bridge and watch the New Haven roar under us with smoke belching over us as it climbed the grade into Oxford,Ma. This was to become my love and drive for trains,especially steam engines.
Later, my father bought our 1st TV in 1949. There was a model railroad 1/2 hour program on TV each day at 5pm which had me glued to the screen. Obviously my parents took notice because that Christmas I received my 1st train set, a Lionel. Money was very tight for us, so I worked cutting grass and tried to purchase switches and signals etc., but at those costs those days, it was hopeless for me. Then came college, the Army Missile school, and then my family (4) and working career in Hi-tech. I never once lost my love for the hobby. I subscribed to Model Railroad and Trains, I rode trains wherever I could, and certainly each Fall at Conway Scenic RR through Crawford Notch in NH being pulled by an 0-6-0 no less up a 660 foot rise through the White Mountains. My grandchildren now ride with me and LOVE trains (exposure guys, rule #1). Two have pictures of 7470 on their bedroom walls, and have train sets. Each year they can't wait to ride on 7470 in the Fall.
Then, they get a chance to see the MRR layout in the trainyard. And, later they see 7470 being brought out of the barn onto the turntable, their eyes glues to the action without blinking. ( exposure guys).
Next they go with grandpa to the BIGE in Springfield, Ma in late January. Their eyes cannot behold the array of trains and equipment setup in 3 large buildings. ( Exposure guys!!)

I have many VHS and DVD's of trains, maintenance of tracks and equipment, excursions, etc, snow clearing, etc. and the grandkids love them. (Exposure guys!!)

Now I am retired and finally have both the TIME and the SPACE to build my 1st layout, not the tracks on the bedroom floor as a boy of 10, with no money, no room, and no tools, and no construction talent. My grandchildren cannot wait, and neither can one of my sons who also has a love of trains due to......Yes (exposure guys!!).

We are competing against a very hi-tech, and fast moving world. People get bored fast and are always looking for something new, something more exciting and challenging.
So my solution is to give my children and grandchildren "exposure to the hobby" in any and all ways, shows, video's, real trains, and assisting me with layout and design from what they have seen. They love to use tools (under supervison of course), and to see their creation work?? What is the price of that smile guys?? (Priceless)!!!

Sure space is a problem, and money is an issue to some, but to those who "really" love the hobby ( like all of you out there), nothing will stop you unless "you" let it happen.

Exposure to this hobby is the key people, and the remainder is up to each father and grandfather, uncle or brother, or neighbor.

It doesn't matter if there is a hobby shop near by. Of course it helps, but don't let that be a deterrant, there is so much on the enet, and the kids (me too) love to receive these things in the mail to add/build for our layout.

Keep a full head of steam guys!!!

***

[robengland]

Agree this is a great topic.

I see a number of factors. Nothing original here, but anyway here's my perspective on it:

Time is one. People are impatient. But I don't think cost is: folks these days are willing to spend lots on leisure. We older guys have a distorted perspective on this one

Definitely impaired imaginations and the desire to have entertainment done to them instead of doing it.

And a personal one that may generate a bit of debate: I just think containers and cubes pulled by diesels are not as inspiring to the layman, sorry. So the trains folk see day to day don't turn them on in the same way they once did. Whenever I ride steam excursions, I love to watch the faces of people on the trackside or in traffic light up as the train passes.

But most of all I think one word: "geek".

The message we gotta get out (and WGH is a great initiative) is that MR is COOL. I'm optimistic here: MR is a conservative hobby, and stuff like DCC and JMRI is just taking off. I have a high tech layout with DCC, JMRI CTC, DS54s, Tortoises, Soundtraxx, IR cabs, webcams, flat screen displays, on-track video, LED signalling, photo quality acrylic control panels, steel and foam construction, dimmer lighting .... and a common reaction is "now THAT is cool". Once there are more like mine then I think the younger generations will get into it more. Technology is cool. This November I won't be taking some ultra-detailed 11000 hour model to work, I'm gonna take a Zephyr and a Soundtraxx installed loco...

Now if we can just get Britney Spears to take up the hobby...

[jsoderq]

First let me say I am not trying to offend anyone. Public perception of railfans/modelers is badly tainted by those individuals running around in funny hats with 100's of pins on their vests, standing around, talking loudly, walking on the tracks (illegal everywhere) and otherwise behaving poorly. Fortunately this type seems to be on the decline generally. Modelers tend to be more educated, with abilities in electronics, etc. BUT they tend to be pretty reserved about revealing themselves to the public, probably for fear of ridicule.
Second, kids today learn almost no mechanical skills. They don't know what tools are or how to use them. The kids in my neighborhood can't even fix a flat on their bikes.They are predominently into (bad) music, video games, and getting out of anything resembling work.
Long term- will the hobby die. No. Decline, maybe but we are having great times right now. Lots of new product, sound, more accessible dcc, working knuckle couplers, more to scale wheels, track, much better scenery and buildings. Costly, yes but you can spend as little or as much as you want.

[Roadtrp]

I'm going to present a few different opinions. Not because I believe anything said so far is wrong; just because I think it might help to express a different viewpoint.

I'm an older adult (52) who is very new to the hobby. That perhaps gives me a perspective not shared by many here.

1) Trains are not a part of our everyday lives.

I don't think that makes much difference. I have seen toys with HUGE success that had nothing to do with everyday life. When my son was young... Castle Greyskull, He-Man, Skeletor, Teela, etc are examples of a toy line that was enormously successful for a while that had no basis in reality.

2) Trains are not cool.

Oh well. Many toys that were very cool you don't see anymore (like all the Castle Greyskull stuff). On the other hand, you can still buy Lincoln Logs, Tinker-Toys, etc. If the toy is a classic, it doesn't need to be cool.

3) Kids don't get train sets anymore.

Wrong. I know very few kids today who haven't gotten some type of train before they were three years old. Whether it is a plastic 'trick train' or a Brio style wooden train, I don't think I've ever seen a kid who doesn't have one.

So what would I change?

1) We need trains a step above Brio to be more affordable. I started with a Lionel 027 set when I was a kid. I'm sure many of you did too. No one could afford that as a kid's toy anymore. We need some manufacturer to make AFFORDABLE equipment in a size that young kids can handle and have fun with. The eight year old with an inexpensive O scale set will be more likely to become a serious modeler later on than the kid whose only experience was with Brio.

2) The train magazines need to be less intimidating to beginners. Sure, show the superb layouts that give us something to strive for. But also show us the layouts put together by a 13 year old kid who has been modeling for a year. I'm old enough that I don't really care that my layout doesn't stack up to what I see in MR. But for a younger person it could be very intimidating and discouraging.

3) People don't have much time today, lack patience, and want it now. Fine. Develop product that appeals to that. That doesn't mean you abandon product for the serious modeler, it just means you give some choices for a person who wants a quality looking layout without spending a whole lot of time at it. I think the industry should develop modular scenery.

Companies like Terrain for Trains have done that to a certain extent, but everyone's layout ends up looking the same. Someone needs to make true building blocks. A section with a mountain and a tunnel; a section with a trestle; a section with track surrounded by a city scene; a section that can be used for a yard. All of these modules would be 'plug and play' so that people could build almost anything they wanted by putting various modules together. All modules would have quality realistic scenery. Sure they would be expensive. But I guarantee you... there are a lot of potential modelers out there with more money than time.

So... Those are just a few of my ideas. I'm not sure they are good, but they seemed to be different from what I've read so far, so I thought I would mention them.

[:)]

[Don Gibson]

I think JETROCK said it ALL., to say the least.

[Jetrock]

One thing that has not faded entirely is people's (and kids') fascination with trains. When I volunteer at the California State Railroad Museum, folks' eyes light up when they see the equipment on display, despite the fact that trains are less a part of everyday life than they used to be. Just this week, while stopping in the gift shop after my shift, a kid who had been particularly entranced with the exhibits recognized me and pointed out with pride his brand-new wind-up train set.

And undoubtedly one of the most popular parts of the Railroad Museum is the toy-train exhibit, recently expanded to include Thomas Sefton's donation to the museum. At the far end are Thomas and Brio trains that kids can play with, and the play area actually has a reputation as a "hook-up" spot for young single parents (who chat, flirt and exchange phone numbers while their kids play.) So much for the idea that trains and meeting the opposite sex are incompatible!

In between the Sefton display and the Brio/Thomas area is a portion dedicated to model railroading, with a display of the major scales (G, O, S, HO, N, Z) and a 2x2 foot diorama of each scale (with, gee, an HO diorama by none other than li'l ol' modest me!) which explains the difference between toy trains and model railroads. People passing through learn about model railroading as an adult hobby as well as the kid-appeal aspect.

I try to do some "recruiting" among my nephews and friends' kids (I don't have any) by bringing them along on trips to railroad museums, train shows or layouts, and by the occasional gift of a train set or railroad-related item. Every little bit helps.

On the subject of instant gratification--one of my other geeky hobbies, roleplaying games, used to be a hobby based largely on graph paper, pencils, hours of work designing dungeons and adventures and painting miniatures, and quite a bit of reading. Nowadays, the term "roleplaying game" is more likely to mean a computer-based game. The work, which is in fact part of the enjoyment to those of us raised to appreciate some things, has gone out of it. So maybe more RTR stuff will help keep the hobby alive for the short-attention-span crowd--but somehow it just wouldn't be the same without kits and the more "advanced" stuff.

[BRAKIE]

As far as not having TIME for a hobby I do not buy that lame excuse nor should anybody else.You see if they have time to spend hours every week watching TV then they have TIME for a hobby.Do you know what time really means?

T=Time
I=Is
M=My
E-Excuse.

And that is exactly what time is a excuse.

[MACKINACMAC]

I have agrred with all the above. As I stated earlier it's a combination of all factors. BUt this morning I was thinking about another side. Today's world offers alot of alternatives to model railroading. All competeing for the waning time people have & in today's economy declining disposal dollars. But consider this. When I was younger, my Dad bowled once a week, Mom did ceramics, I played baseball in the summer. After that there wasn't too much else competing for your time so we built a layout. However today, Iv'e been in adult bowling leagues, volleyball, basketball, softball wallyball, racquetball, My kids swim, play soccer,. Iv'e seen little league football, adult flag football and now dodgeball. And this is just the sports side of life. This proliferation of things to do is even in our hobby. Prior years saw scales of O, S, HO, N but now you have G, O, HO, N, Z and add to this, narrow guage in each scale and now proto scale in each scale, not to mention computer modeling. this trend can be seen in every aspect of life. Even the once crowded Bingo halls must compete with lotto tickets, Keno in the bars & restaurants (I'm in Michigan), and Casinos. People today have less time and alot more choices. I think that Model Railroading is thriving as compared to other activities that must reinvent themselves to get noticed. Model Railroading has held strong.

As far a geekiness goes, I've haven't seen that. In fact I've noticed an attitude that we are elitest. Through my modeling experience I've gained the knowledge, skills & confidence to tackle just about any job. My wife is amazed that I can rewire the house, program and re configure a computer, fix just about anything mechanical, work on a car, and on and on. My daughter now thinks thats theres nothing I can't fix. I tease alot of "so-called men" who can't even identify the basic of tools let alone know how to use them. Even at work (I'm a C.P.A.) their amazed at things I can fix (telephones, calculators, T.Vs (all Fixed at work)). I was at an audit of a plastic injection modeling plant and the senior auditor was dumbfounded that I could have an intelligent conversation with the press operator, floor manager & engineers re: the process, materials, molds, etc. HE just stood there with his mouth opened and asked how I knew all that stuff and I said with grea confidence "from model railroading".

[fiatfan]

I started a response to this thread in my word processor and before I realized it, I had pounded out two pages. I won't bore the group with my thoughts since many of them are already mirrored in this topc but I have really enjoyed reading the thread. Everyone has made excellent contributions.. Thanks for starting it.

Tom

[Anonymous]

When I started model rr'ing (1 year ago) I sought advise here. Many of the posts were talking about accurate this and prototypical that, $6 a stick flex track, $30 freight cars, and $300 turntables. I became alarmed, but do to an enormous amount of time doing research and asking questions, I realized that the extremely pricey items people were talking about (more like museum display quality) was not the rule, but the exception. I think most people would not have ventured as far as I did, and would have been discouraged, thinking it was not in their budget. The ads, the magazines, and some of the forums do a lot to scare people off. I have noticed very few "budget-conscious" articles or topics. Although I don't expect Model Railroader Magazine to tackle the enormous task of starting from scratch trying to educate the new and young, someone will need to or I think the hobby will slowly die.

[tstage]

enduringexp makes two VERY good points! Price and intimidation.

One of the main reasons I stopped watching This Old 'Mansion' (sorry, This Old House) on PBS is that they only want to "cater" to a bunch of rich viewers whose sole purpuse is to impress their friends with the $250,000, maghogany paneled addtion on their...DOG HOUSE! [:(!] I don't know about you but I will NEVER be able to afford the luxuries that they tout on a show like that! (Some of you may remember that when the show first came out, it was a basically a DIY program on home projects that could be accomplished by anyone who was willing take the initiative to try and learn.)

Anyway, my aunt taught me a very valuable lesson a number of years ago that I have not forgotten: "When buying anything, buy the best you can afford." I've tried to keep that in mind - even when purchasing model railroading supplies and stock. I may only have two locomotives and a handful of cars but they are quality and look good and authentic. The new fangled, hi-tech nicities are fun to peruse through and imagine having but most of us in the hobby can not necessarily afford those things. (Or we go in debt trying.) Affordable alternatives should be encouraged. (I picked up a P2K 50' box car kit (on sale) for $6! )

On the topic of intimidation. After consulting a number of books on benchwork and trackplans, I made my first and current, light-weight train table out of extruded foam insulation for around $50. I already had some track so I was able to immediately lay it down and try out all sorts of ideas. If one idea didn't work, I could easily pull of the tacks and try something else. No one told me to do that. I discovered it on my own.

Some of the books and helps in the hobby - even the ones deemed for "beginners" or use the word "easy" - can still be pretty daunting and difficult to understand. I think many writers who write - especially those writing on wiring up your layout - aren't able to simplify concepts and ideas clearly enough for those of us who aren't quite as edumacated as those who been in the hobby a while.

I'm currently plodding through MR's Ease Mddel Railroad Wiring. It's been good initially but the electrical jargon is still tossed about a little too freely to be easily grasped. As I have told others in the area of occupation I work in: "Teach me! I'm willing the learn. Just don't blow me out of the water on your first shot!"

I said my peace.

Tom

[grayfox1119]

Roadtrp, you hit on two areas that I hope the magazine publishers and model RR construction manufacturers pick up on.
First, a new Model RR magazine aimed at the young and the NEW members of the hobby. Articles would be all on inexpensive equipment, construction techniques, all very basic. This would not intimidate new people, nor younger members, and as their skills developed, they could move into bigger and better layouts with more confidence.

Second, manufacturers should pick up on this niche in the model RR market to produce layout modules. They can be mass produced, made of foam in order to keep the costs affordable to even the most strapped for $$$.

If I win megabucks, or some other lottery, I will invite all of you guys who wrote into this forum article to join me as entreprenours in this new venture. If the producers won't/can't do, then we can!!!

Keep the pressure up in the boiler guys!!!

***

[andrechapelon]

What keeps people from this hobby? Probably lack of interest due to a lack of encouragement and exposure from an early age. My dad bought me a Lionel train set back when I was only 3 years old. A couple of years later, we were living in Colorado within sight of a D&RGW branch line where every day, I saw a D&RGW C-48 (didn't know what it was at the time, though) on a short freight. Three years after that, we were living in Mojave, CA, where I could watch the last of the cab-forwards in Tehachapi helper service and play with the American Flyer set my dad bought me (I think the Lionel set got sold in one of our moves). My own interest in trains (real and model) goes back over 50 years. Neither of my two kids were ever interested, however, despite their dad's obvious interest.

My 3 1/2 year old granddaughter is a different story. She loves trains. When she was a year old, I bought her a Thomas ride around train. This year, she visited the Roaring Camp and Big Trees RR in Felton, CA, where they had one of their "Days Out With Thomas". Her dad bought her a Thomas train set (I forget which brand). One of her favorite pasttimes when she visits Grandpa Choochoo (that's me [:D]) and Grandma is to watch train videos in the evening. I've never believe a 3 year old would sit still for a 90 minute Pentrex video, but she does it. She also has several "I Love Toy Trains" videos. She's hooked and I intend to keep her that way. Of course, it helps that her maternal grandfather (aka Grandpa Greenlight) is a train buff, too. In fact, he's got a D&RGW caboose sitting in his yard in Estes Park, CO. She can't help but be influenced.

I now have another granddaughter (2 months old). She's going to get the same treatment. With any luck, she'll get hooked, too. If not, it won't be because I didn't make the effort.

Andre - Trying to create tomorrow's modelers today

[simon1966]

My Boys are 4 and 7. Even the 4 year old has lost interest in Thomas. The problem is how to keep them interested. They would both rather pu***rains around and have imaginative play than sit and watch an electric train go around in circles. They will spend hours in the trian room pushing our HO scale trains around, rather than using the power. What has kept their interest in the wooden trains is the availability of more prototypical trains made by the Whittle short line www.woodentrain.com these are great toys that are for older kids that still want to build tracks with the wooden thomas track, but yet are not "baby" toys. In my opinion the whittle trains have extended the ply life of the wooden trains by at least 3 years. The other thing we love to do is assemble and paint the good old Athearn Blue boxes together. They really like to run trains that they delped to create.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of factors, but if I had to boil it all downt to one, I would say that Model Railroaders are the biggest cause of people not joining the hobby.[:0] Whether you are a geek, or you are old, or you are young doesnt matter. We do some pretty damn amazing things with our hobby, and we will spend hours expounding on how we did it, or how difficult it was. Thats fine for the guys in the club but not for "outsiders".

Do we mention the fun? Do we mention that at one time, we ourselves didn't know how to do this or that? Did we mention that, once we did something for the first time, how easy it was to do? Do we offer to a "newbie", "try this, if you have any problems with it, call me"? Do we try to answer questions with phrases that the layman would understand, and not use things like " points, trailing frogs, hogger, truss rods, varnish, decoders, throttle bus"and others?

The way to grow more model railroaders is to gently plant seeds. You dont hard sell or "wow" most folks into the hobby. Remember that they dont know much about the hobby, and that noone was born that way either! Foster an appreciation for the hobby and the enjoyment it brings 1st.[^] Remember, the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". Very true.
There is nothing saying you cant tell him how cool and refreshing the water is![:D]

[Anonymous]

I too, was gonna respond to this string and found that I had written over a page and was repeating a lot of what has already been said.

However, I will say that I agree with kbfcsme quite a bit. I'm trying to get back into this after a 20 year layoff and I have probably been as discouraged in my learning about this hobby as I have been encouraged. I've posted a couple times about the 'fun' aspects of the hobby or the trade off between prototypical and fantasy. It seems to me that most of the information I read here (or other forums) or in MR magazine is so very complicated, prototypical or detailed that I'm hesitant to get back into this.

I posted once a week or so ago about having fun on my layout and what I noticed is the high response of people that said ' hey go for it , its your layout, etc, etc.' what struck me is that many of the responders were "lurkers" or people with low post #'s. That tells me there is probably a lot of people who lurk on these boards and are too intimitaded to speak up or ask a dumb question . . .

Just my opionion as a newbie debating the merits of getting back into this or continuing on with my astonomy, flying and pool playing.

[Paul3]

kbfcsme wrote:

QUOTE: There are a lot of factors, but if I had to boil it all downt to one, I would say that Model Railroaders are the biggest cause of people not joining the hobby. Whether you are a geek, or you are old, or you are young doesnt matter. We do some pretty damn amazing things with our hobby, and we will spend hours expounding on how we did it, or how difficult it was. Thats fine for the guys in the club but not for "outsiders".

Most people will write or talk to their expected audience, which means that if one is talking or writing on a rail forum like this one, one presumes that most people here are railfans and already have a handle on the jargon. It's only when someone confirms that they are new that most people will go out of their way to make sure they are understood by explaining the terminology.

Maybe there ought to be a "newbie" forum somewhere on the 'net, but as of yet, I haven't seen one. Until then, I will continue to assume that people here are already conversant with model railroading unless they state they are not.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[darth9x9]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme

There are a lot of factors, but if I had to boil it all downt to one, I would say that Model Railroaders are the biggest cause of people not joining the hobby.[:0] Whether you are a geek, or you are old, or you are young doesnt matter. We do some pretty damn amazing things with our hobby, and we will spend hours expounding on how we did it, or how difficult it was. Thats fine for the guys in the club but not for "outsiders".

Do we mention the fun? Do we mention that at one time, we ourselves didn't know how to do this or that? Did we mention that, once we did something for the first time, how easy it was to do? Do we offer to a "newbie", "try this, if you have any problems with it, call me"? Do we try to answer questions with phrases that the layman would understand, and not use things like " points, trailing frogs, hogger, truss rods, varnish, decoders, throttle bus"and others?

The way to grow more model railroaders is to gently plant seeds. You dont hard sell or "wow" most folks into the hobby. Remember that they dont know much about the hobby, and that noone was born that way either! Foster an appreciation for the hobby and the enjoyment it brings 1st.[^] Remember, the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". Very true.
There is nothing saying you cant tell him how cool and refreshing the water is![:D]

[#ditto][#ditto][#ditto]

[tatans]

@ 1000 views & 60 replies to this forum must indicate this is one of the most stimulating forums ever posted, the replies are the most intelligent responses and reflect (hopefully) the feelings of people involved in the hobby, they seem to indicate the middle section of the spectrum and by the tone of the responses, have eliminated the fringe group at the extreme ends of the hobby.
I shall keep a copy of this forum and would like to see this column awarded a congratulation or award from MR of some sort. This post has truly renewed my faith in the quality of true model railroaders, you are all to be congratulated. Remember, this forum had everyone agree, and no negative replies, that really says it all.

[tstage]

Sorry. This exceptional, though-provoking post needs a jumpstart so I'm only adding this reply to bump it back up to page 1. Cheap trick but...I would enjoy hearing more comments from folks. [:D]

Tom

[cisco1]

You guys all make excellent points. My wife has put up with this hobby for over 20 years but recently she started hanging out in the basement too. What happened? She LOVES running a train around the layout with on-board sound! Had to get a second BLI loco to have one to operate myself! The six year old we babysit has gotten really good at operating a short train around the layout. His brother and sister (ages4 and 2) sit on the bar stools watching and are fascinated! Gotta get 'em started young and keep things interesting. The cost issue is a biggee until you start pricing sets of golf clubs or a good hunting rifle. Maybe if we can get enough young people interested again we can head off this shortage of new engineering students at our universities. Someone has to be around 30 years from now to keep the machines running. That's something Model Railroading contributes positively to (besides being fun, relaxing, and challenging).
We can stay in our basements but we can do so much more by getting out where the public can get a better look. Chris

[tstage]

Chris,

Great post! [^] My wife (in the whole three months that I have been in the hobby) actually enjoys reading in the same room and watching the trains go around the track. She says the sound of the 'clickity-clack' (I use metal wheels on my rolling stock) is soothing to her. I even occasionally consult her opinion on painting schemes and ideas on where to place things (i.e. trees, structures, etc.) on my layout!

Whoa! Forking out money for a BLI just for my wife? Hey! A happy wife makes for a happy home and a good marriage! I don't know, guys? Sounds like a good investment of time and money to me. What an great excuse to rationalize buying a BLI...with sound! [:D]

Tom

[Anonymous]

This is not an attempt at "the answer"...it's a casual observation of buying habits at trainshows. I generally have a table or two at 4 or 5 trainshows a year, selling surplus equipment or items I have bought from others who left the hobby.
At all trainshows, there seems to be an "age" demarcation when (for instance), buildings are being sold.
Invariably, "old-timers" in the hobby, folks in their 50's and up, will buy new kits, still in the box.
Younger modellers, in their 20's through to their 40's, seem mostly to buy pre-assembled buildings...in fact, the best way I can ensure rapid sales of a bunch of buildings, at the price I'd like, is to assemble them on foamcore bases, weather them, and add grouncover, details, and people, to make a "mini-scene" out of each one....it really has become an "instant gratification" hobby for a large majority of this younger crowd.
Similarly, it is WAY easier to sell preassembled cars & locomotives than kits...but most of the above-mentioned "old-timers" still want kits.

It's not so much WHY there are time & effort constraints...there just ARE.

regards;
Mike

[Anonymous]

I think some of us need to put feet on the ideas here and contact MR, in case they haven't read this thread. It's just the thing they need to do a full article on. After all, it is a "trade" magazine of sorts, and this topic touches a real nerve in the hobby!

Personally, I think part of the exposure problem is due to the fact that many model railroad clubs are like the one in my area: full a grumpy retirees who've formed a clique and eye newcomers suspiciously. I walked into one local hobby shop and the immediate impression was twofold:

1. If you ain't a Lionel man, you're nuthin'

2. If you haven't figured something out on your own already, then learn the way all us old timers did, on your own. Heaven forbid a customer asks a question and doesn't know the lingo.

The next time I went there, I think the owner realized he'd kinda annoyed me because he was a bit friendlier. I think if the old hands would reach out more and adopt a friendlier approach to the newcomer, it would give the hobby the exposure it needs. And yes, the articles in MR are a bit heavy on insider jargon and 500 dollar locos nobody can afford.

[easyaces]

I think Mabruce hit the nail on the head with his opening statement. That pretty much says it all !! In an age of instant gratification for the younger set, having that new $100 pair of sneakers, or the latest fashion , or a car is a status symbol unto itself ! Of those young people who do pusue the hobby, seem to keep thier mouth shut and seek out others who do , or face being ridiculed and called "GEEK" . Well to all my fellow GEEKS and those younger who pursue this hobby. Welcome Young Brothers and Sisters no matter who you are! If you need help, or questions answered, this is the place to be as there is wealth of knowledge here from us older folks to get you going in the right direction!