MAKING UP YOUR FAVORITE PASSENGER TRAIN ON YOUR MODEL RAILROAD

[Don Gibson]

quote" ...SPs Daylight Limited: 4449 pulling Spectrum Heavyweights."

If you care Dept:
#4449 (A GS-4) only pulled 'Heavyweights' at the end when in Commuter Service and they were painted black and had her skirts 'lifted'. The 'Pre-streamlined Daylight' car were painted Pullman Green and pulled by conventional steam such as non-shrouded 4-8-2's, and 4-8-4 (GS-l's).

Rivarossi, IHC, and Model Power only paint their Heavtweight's in Daylight colors to sell to the (nice word) uninitiated. I think most Espee types would prefer to see your #4449 with Athearn's coaches on a 5X8; however it's YOUR RR.

I'm thinking of running a Pooch AMTRAK with UP's M1000 coaches.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

quote" ...SPs Daylight Limited: 4449 pulling Spectrum Heavyweights."

If you care Dept:
#4449 (A GS-4) only pulled 'Heavyweights' at the end when in Commuter Service and they were painted black and had her skirts 'lifted'. The 'Pre-streamlined Daylight' car were painted Pullman Green and pulled by conventional steam such as non-shrouded 4-8-2's, and 4-8-4 (GS-l's).

Rivarossi, IHC, and Model Power only paint their Heavtweight's in Daylight colors to sell to the (nice word) uninitiated. I think most Espee types would prefer to see your #4449 with Athearn's coaches on a 5X8; however it's YOUR RR.

I'm thinking of running a Pooch AMTRAK with UP's M1000 coaches.

[soapbox] Oh? I've seen dozens of pictures of Daylight painted engines pulling heavyweight consists (Pre-1950 Sunset Limited, trains #1/2, Imperial, trains #39/40 fer instance, or the Coast Mail, trains #71/72, the Coaster, trains #69/70). Granted, the heavyweights weren't painted Daylight colors, but Daylight painted GS-4's did pull heavyweight consists quite frequently.

Then there were their stints on the "Overnights", the fast freights that ran about an hour ahead of the Lark and stayed ahead. I seem to remember a photo of #4449 on one of those in full Daylight regalia. [/soapbox]

Andre

[Don Gibson]

I was thinking of #4449 specifically. but it certainly it could - and probably was - in pool service for helper and fast mail Mail service anywhere out of Oakland/SF/LA beat.

Thanks for your post.

[johncolley]

This west coast boy loves his 14 car GN Empire Builder pulled by a pair of BLI E-7's through the Cascades. In the hole is a 60+ car freight pulled by a 4 unit Stewart FT and tailed with a caboose. This is 1947-8. Go Rocky!

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

I was thinking of #4449 specifically. but it certainly it could - and probably was - in pool service for helper and fast mail Mail service anywhere out of Oakland/SF/LA beat.

Thanks for your post.

Still, you are correct in stating that #4449 would never have pulled a train consisting of nothing more than Daylight painted heavyweights. In any case, the Spectrum cars are Pennsy prototype anyhow (except for the 10-1-2 pullman).

BTW, a few years ago, I was in The Train Shop in Santa Clara, CA, and Charlie Givens, who was a well known modeler and SP expert in the area, as well as being partners with Vern Cole in TTS told me that he had heard that one of the GS-4's had been painted in Lark colors sometime in 1945 as an experiment. Apparently, that experiment only lasted a day as the engine was quickly repainted back into Daylight colors. I have no idea if the story is true, although I do give Charlie a great deal of credence. I asked him if there were any pictures and he said he'd never seen or heard of any.

Wouldn't it be wild if Doyle McCormack & crew could be talked into giving #4449 a Lark paint job? I've always preferred GS-4's black and deskirted (yes, I'll do 100 Hail Mary's in penance for that sin [:D]), but a Lark scheme would really look classy.

Andre

[cnw4001]

I won't go into full consists on all but I have these which run at the club layout.

N & W Powhattan Arrow pulled by a J.

L & N Hummingbird in all deep blue scheme.

CNW 400 pair of E's up front.

VIA Canadian in blue/yellow scheme, not the silver and blue.

Amtrak CZ with Superliners, baggage, MHC's. FP 40's or SDP45PH's or P40/42 for power.

Amtrak Three Rivrers with viewliner Heritage and Amfleet coaches and food service with MHC's and Roadrailers on the back.

Amtrak Capitol Limited with P's for power.

Amtrak Southwest Chief with Heritage cars and A-B-B-A's up front.

CNW push-pull bi level commuter, three coaches and a cab car with an F unit for power.

Two GO Traisit six car rakes, one with an FP40 and the other with a GP 20 (TC) .

All these are HO and obviously I can make up several other Amtrak trains with a group of FP40.s and P-32's for power.

I won't start listing the N stuff.

Like all passenger trains, comes from seeing seven railroad operating their passenger trains in and out of Cincinnati Union Terminal while growing up in sight of CUT'.

[JoeJr41]

Hey Silver Campion, Thank's for th Opportunity, To Boast My Stock, I have 2-Complete Sets of Walthers TrainLine Amtrac SilverScouts, Loco's #510 & 519,
LIke Them Dash 8-40B.s, All th Car's have Different #'s, Pick up a Few Mail and Baggage Car's also, LHS Nankin Has alot,,,,-plug-,,,, Also Have A Mehano Trainline Thalys, From QVC Shopping,,, TY Mother,,,, Also Would Like to Find some L&N, I Have about 300 Coal Car's for a Drag, But 1 SD-40? Bought Awhile ago,
Still Researching,, Ya Guys, and Gal's, Them Post on the Layout Forum,,, TY, Have Gotten Alot of Great Ideas, This Past Year, I've Been a Member at Train's.com, Subcribe's to MRR Now, Hope My Mag Follow's Me, W/out Interuption,!
Signed: JAMRR

[twhite]

Andre: Talk about the GS in Lark colors, at a swap meet about five years ago, I saw an HO brass ALCO PA-B-A set painted in two-tone gray to haul the Cascade, the overnighter between Oakland and Portland, OR. It was boxed and labeled and everything. It stopped me dead in my tracks. When I told the seller that I'd never heard of such a thing, he shook his head and said neither had he, that's why it was for sale. So it seems that everybody can get in on the act, not only Jonathan's Spectrum heavyweight Daylight cars. Had a friend take me to task for buying Athearn's heavyweights in Rio Grande Gold, until I showed him some photos of the ski train. That's what makes this hobby so much fun.

[Don Gibson]

ANDRE :
I also love the two-toned-gray & black LARK scheme. I have a prized 10 car custom painted MHP 'Lark' consist (complete with 3 unit diner). I also liked Bachmann's 4-8-4 'War Baby' version even though it wasn't prototype, but the damned thing couldn't pull it.
My De-skirted re-motored Balboa in Black & Silver will - and is handsome - and I presume the SP management would have approved - if they had thought of it. Does anyone know if any 'Lark' consists ever ran with 4-8-4's in black before the train was discontinued? My guess the Black widows took over, and the final GS-4 scheme followed that.

I always thought the more subdue'd 'Lark' being pulled by redorange was either dictated by 'no one can tell the difference after dark' mentality - or a color blind executive.

Edit: Toward the end, the Daylight had smooth sided stainless steel cars, a 3/4 dome, lunch counter (yes),and a bloody nose Alco PA/PB set on the point. I was on it from LA to catch the CZ to Denver (home).

Having ridden the old GS-4 'Daylight' as a kid, it was a sad version of it's former self.

[Anonymous]

I'm not going to have any revenue pre Amtrak stuff on my layout but I'll have the Broadway Limited with E units and the 20th Century Limited with 4-6-4's and E units for fun.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

ANDRE :
I also love the two-toned-gray & black LARK scheme. I have a prized 10 car custom painted MHP 'Lark' consist (complete with 3 unit diner). I also liked Bachmann's 4-8-4 'War Baby' version even though it wasn't prototype, but the damned thing couldn't pull it.
My De-skirted re-motored Balboa in Black & Silver will - and is handsome - and I presume the SP management would have approved - if they had thought of it. Does anyone know if any 'Lark' consists ever ran with 4-8-4's in black before the train was discontinued? My guess the Black widows took over, and the final GS-4 scheme followed that.

I always thought the more subdue'd 'Lark' being pulled by redorange was either dictated by 'no one can tell the difference after dark' mentality - or a color blind executive.

Edit: Toward the end, the Daylight had smooth sided stainless steel cars, a 3/4 dome, lunch counter (yes),and a bloody nose Alco PA/PB set on the point. I was on it from LA to catch the CZ to Denver (home).

Having ridden the old GS-4 'Daylight' as a kid, it was a sad version of it's former self.

I've never heard of the Lark being pulled by a deskirted GS-4, although it may have happened on occasion when one of the remaining Daylight painted engines may have been unavailable for one reason or another. I have seen a color picture of the Daylight being pulled by a GS-1. However, this (IIRC) was due to the unavailability of the power off the Lark in LA. It's my understanding that SP pretty closely scheduled their diesel passenger power assignments and that a late arriving set of units could cause a problem with the next train the units were scheduled to pull. This incident with the GS-1 happened in 1956, well after the Coast Daylight was officially dieselized, so it wasn't a common occurrence.

Is MHP still in business? I have a copy of Wright's book on the Daylight. The thing is encyclopedic and has a weight to match. It would hold down a circus tent in a hurricane.

Andre

[Don Gibson]

There is a Overland ALCO PA -2 being offered on EBay with a wide yellow nose reverse teardrop and called a SP "Halloween" scheme 1958.
Sort of a reaction to the 'Bloody Nose?

Anyone remember such ? Andre??

[Anonymous]

The smooth side SS SP pax cars were rebuilds conceived to eliminate the near-fatal corrosion of the cor-ten frames on the P-S fluted cars built for the Daylights, Sunbeam and general service/Californian. This malady plagued every owner of these P-S, ACF, etc fluted cars (including the ATSF Pleasure Domes, BTW), which were not all-SS like the Budd cars because the other guys didn't want to pay royalties to Budd on the shotweld patent. Shotwelding was the only method for building the visible parts of a SS car where the welds weren't unsightly. So they just hung the SS sides on a conventional cor-ten side truss frame that was load-bearing (much of the car's structural stresses were routed through this frame, to reduce center sill size). This mixed-material construction leaked like a sieve, allowing water and cleaning acids into the side wall and frame area, where the insulation soaked it up like a sponge and left it, resulting in unbelieveable body cancer on those cars. The SS sides that SP applied to these cars literally saved them from a very early trip to the scrap heap as most of these cars were far less than 15 years old when the problem was discovered, and the fix added probably 20+ years to their lifetimes. No, they weren't as pretty, but consider the alternative.

Everybody else had the same problem, and many of the solutions were similar. Some were really piecemeal--that's why you see some RI and other SS cars where there are strips of fluting left at the letterboards but not beneath the windows. Some of them with bigger budgets took pride in the fixes and periodically ripped the old sides off, patched the frame, and put the sides back on. Some of them just let the cars fall apart.

These cars are a real mess, even today. I recently had the opportunity to look at a Pleasure Dome that was partially denuded, and it was a wonder that the car had even been roadworthy.

P-S finally built some all-SS cars, starting in 1954 for MKT and SLSF, but by then the market was essentially gone. These cars were not shotwelded, but employed conventional spot welding, which leaves big marks and is not as attractive.

What's ironic is that SP did the sides on almost the entire fleet at a time when they were becoming significantly anti-passenger.

Don Gibson--see other post on "Halloween" paint. Experimental paint job before "bloody nose" adopted.