MAKING UP YOUR FAVORITE PASSENGER TRAIN ON YOUR MODEL RAILROAD

[Anonymous]

The smooth side SS SP pax cars were rebuilds conceived to eliminate the near-fatal corrosion of the cor-ten frames on the P-S fluted cars built for the Daylights, Sunbeam and general service/Californian. This malady plagued every owner of these P-S, ACF, etc fluted cars (including the ATSF Pleasure Domes, BTW), which were not all-SS like the Budd cars because the other guys didn't want to pay royalties to Budd on the shotweld patent. Shotwelding was the only method for building the visible parts of a SS car where the welds weren't unsightly. So they just hung the SS sides on a conventional cor-ten side truss frame that was load-bearing (much of the car's structural stresses were routed through this frame, to reduce center sill size). This mixed-material construction leaked like a sieve, allowing water and cleaning acids into the side wall and frame area, where the insulation soaked it up like a sponge and left it, resulting in unbelieveable body cancer on those cars. The SS sides that SP applied to these cars literally saved them from a very early trip to the scrap heap as most of these cars were far less than 15 years old when the problem was discovered, and the fix added probably 20+ years to their lifetimes. No, they weren't as pretty, but consider the alternative.

Everybody else had the same problem, and many of the solutions were similar. Some were really piecemeal--that's why you see some RI and other SS cars where there are strips of fluting left at the letterboards but not beneath the windows. Some of them with bigger budgets took pride in the fixes and periodically ripped the old sides off, patched the frame, and put the sides back on. Some of them just let the cars fall apart.

These cars are a real mess, even today. I recently had the opportunity to look at a Pleasure Dome that was partially denuded, and it was a wonder that the car had even been roadworthy.

P-S finally built some all-SS cars, starting in 1954 for MKT and SLSF, but by then the market was essentially gone. These cars were not shotwelded, but employed conventional spot welding, which leaves big marks and is not as attractive.

What's ironic is that SP did the sides on almost the entire fleet at a time when they were becoming significantly anti-passenger.

Don Gibson--see other post on "Halloween" paint. Experimental paint job before "bloody nose" adopted.

[Don Gibson]

There is a Overland ALCO PA -2 being offered on EBay with a wide yellow nose reverse teardrop and called a SP "Halloween" scheme 1958.
Sort of a reaction to the 'Bloody Nose?

Anyone remember such ? Andre??

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

ANDRE :
I also love the two-toned-gray & black LARK scheme. I have a prized 10 car custom painted MHP 'Lark' consist (complete with 3 unit diner). I also liked Bachmann's 4-8-4 'War Baby' version even though it wasn't prototype, but the damned thing couldn't pull it.
My De-skirted re-motored Balboa in Black & Silver will - and is handsome - and I presume the SP management would have approved - if they had thought of it. Does anyone know if any 'Lark' consists ever ran with 4-8-4's in black before the train was discontinued? My guess the Black widows took over, and the final GS-4 scheme followed that.

I always thought the more subdue'd 'Lark' being pulled by redorange was either dictated by 'no one can tell the difference after dark' mentality - or a color blind executive.

Edit: Toward the end, the Daylight had smooth sided stainless steel cars, a 3/4 dome, lunch counter (yes),and a bloody nose Alco PA/PB set on the point. I was on it from LA to catch the CZ to Denver (home).

Having ridden the old GS-4 'Daylight' as a kid, it was a sad version of it's former self.

I've never heard of the Lark being pulled by a deskirted GS-4, although it may have happened on occasion when one of the remaining Daylight painted engines may have been unavailable for one reason or another. I have seen a color picture of the Daylight being pulled by a GS-1. However, this (IIRC) was due to the unavailability of the power off the Lark in LA. It's my understanding that SP pretty closely scheduled their diesel passenger power assignments and that a late arriving set of units could cause a problem with the next train the units were scheduled to pull. This incident with the GS-1 happened in 1956, well after the Coast Daylight was officially dieselized, so it wasn't a common occurrence.

Is MHP still in business? I have a copy of Wright's book on the Daylight. The thing is encyclopedic and has a weight to match. It would hold down a circus tent in a hurricane.

Andre

[Anonymous]

I'm not going to have any revenue pre Amtrak stuff on my layout but I'll have the Broadway Limited with E units and the 20th Century Limited with 4-6-4's and E units for fun.

[Don Gibson]

ANDRE :
I also love the two-toned-gray & black LARK scheme. I have a prized 10 car custom painted MHP 'Lark' consist (complete with 3 unit diner). I also liked Bachmann's 4-8-4 'War Baby' version even though it wasn't prototype, but the damned thing couldn't pull it.
My De-skirted re-motored Balboa in Black & Silver will - and is handsome - and I presume the SP management would have approved - if they had thought of it. Does anyone know if any 'Lark' consists ever ran with 4-8-4's in black before the train was discontinued? My guess the Black widows took over, and the final GS-4 scheme followed that.

I always thought the more subdue'd 'Lark' being pulled by redorange was either dictated by 'no one can tell the difference after dark' mentality - or a color blind executive.

Edit: Toward the end, the Daylight had smooth sided stainless steel cars, a 3/4 dome, lunch counter (yes),and a bloody nose Alco PA/PB set on the point. I was on it from LA to catch the CZ to Denver (home).

Having ridden the old GS-4 'Daylight' as a kid, it was a sad version of it's former self.

[twhite]

Andre: Talk about the GS in Lark colors, at a swap meet about five years ago, I saw an HO brass ALCO PA-B-A set painted in two-tone gray to haul the Cascade, the overnighter between Oakland and Portland, OR. It was boxed and labeled and everything. It stopped me dead in my tracks. When I told the seller that I'd never heard of such a thing, he shook his head and said neither had he, that's why it was for sale. So it seems that everybody can get in on the act, not only Jonathan's Spectrum heavyweight Daylight cars. Had a friend take me to task for buying Athearn's heavyweights in Rio Grande Gold, until I showed him some photos of the ski train. That's what makes this hobby so much fun.

[JoeJr41]

Hey Silver Campion, Thank's for th Opportunity, To Boast My Stock, I have 2-Complete Sets of Walthers TrainLine Amtrac SilverScouts, Loco's #510 & 519,
LIke Them Dash 8-40B.s, All th Car's have Different #'s, Pick up a Few Mail and Baggage Car's also, LHS Nankin Has alot,,,,-plug-,,,, Also Have A Mehano Trainline Thalys, From QVC Shopping,,, TY Mother,,,, Also Would Like to Find some L&N, I Have about 300 Coal Car's for a Drag, But 1 SD-40? Bought Awhile ago,
Still Researching,, Ya Guys, and Gal's, Them Post on the Layout Forum,,, TY, Have Gotten Alot of Great Ideas, This Past Year, I've Been a Member at Train's.com, Subcribe's to MRR Now, Hope My Mag Follow's Me, W/out Interuption,!
Signed: JAMRR

[cnw4001]

I won't go into full consists on all but I have these which run at the club layout.

N & W Powhattan Arrow pulled by a J.

L & N Hummingbird in all deep blue scheme.

CNW 400 pair of E's up front.

VIA Canadian in blue/yellow scheme, not the silver and blue.

Amtrak CZ with Superliners, baggage, MHC's. FP 40's or SDP45PH's or P40/42 for power.

Amtrak Three Rivrers with viewliner Heritage and Amfleet coaches and food service with MHC's and Roadrailers on the back.

Amtrak Capitol Limited with P's for power.

Amtrak Southwest Chief with Heritage cars and A-B-B-A's up front.

CNW push-pull bi level commuter, three coaches and a cab car with an F unit for power.

Two GO Traisit six car rakes, one with an FP40 and the other with a GP 20 (TC) .

All these are HO and obviously I can make up several other Amtrak trains with a group of FP40.s and P-32's for power.

I won't start listing the N stuff.

Like all passenger trains, comes from seeing seven railroad operating their passenger trains in and out of Cincinnati Union Terminal while growing up in sight of CUT'.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

I was thinking of #4449 specifically. but it certainly it could - and probably was - in pool service for helper and fast mail Mail service anywhere out of Oakland/SF/LA beat.

Thanks for your post.

Still, you are correct in stating that #4449 would never have pulled a train consisting of nothing more than Daylight painted heavyweights. In any case, the Spectrum cars are Pennsy prototype anyhow (except for the 10-1-2 pullman).

BTW, a few years ago, I was in The Train Shop in Santa Clara, CA, and Charlie Givens, who was a well known modeler and SP expert in the area, as well as being partners with Vern Cole in TTS told me that he had heard that one of the GS-4's had been painted in Lark colors sometime in 1945 as an experiment. Apparently, that experiment only lasted a day as the engine was quickly repainted back into Daylight colors. I have no idea if the story is true, although I do give Charlie a great deal of credence. I asked him if there were any pictures and he said he'd never seen or heard of any.

Wouldn't it be wild if Doyle McCormack & crew could be talked into giving #4449 a Lark paint job? I've always preferred GS-4's black and deskirted (yes, I'll do 100 Hail Mary's in penance for that sin [:D]), but a Lark scheme would really look classy.

Andre

[johncolley]

This west coast boy loves his 14 car GN Empire Builder pulled by a pair of BLI E-7's through the Cascades. In the hole is a 60+ car freight pulled by a 4 unit Stewart FT and tailed with a caboose. This is 1947-8. Go Rocky!

[Don Gibson]

I was thinking of #4449 specifically. but it certainly it could - and probably was - in pool service for helper and fast mail Mail service anywhere out of Oakland/SF/LA beat.

Thanks for your post.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

quote" ...SPs Daylight Limited: 4449 pulling Spectrum Heavyweights."

If you care Dept:
#4449 (A GS-4) only pulled 'Heavyweights' at the end when in Commuter Service and they were painted black and had her skirts 'lifted'. The 'Pre-streamlined Daylight' car were painted Pullman Green and pulled by conventional steam such as non-shrouded 4-8-2's, and 4-8-4 (GS-l's).

Rivarossi, IHC, and Model Power only paint their Heavtweight's in Daylight colors to sell to the (nice word) uninitiated. I think most Espee types would prefer to see your #4449 with Athearn's coaches on a 5X8; however it's YOUR RR.

I'm thinking of running a Pooch AMTRAK with UP's M1000 coaches.

[soapbox] Oh? I've seen dozens of pictures of Daylight painted engines pulling heavyweight consists (Pre-1950 Sunset Limited, trains #1/2, Imperial, trains #39/40 fer instance, or the Coast Mail, trains #71/72, the Coaster, trains #69/70). Granted, the heavyweights weren't painted Daylight colors, but Daylight painted GS-4's did pull heavyweight consists quite frequently.

Then there were their stints on the "Overnights", the fast freights that ran about an hour ahead of the Lark and stayed ahead. I seem to remember a photo of #4449 on one of those in full Daylight regalia. [/soapbox]

Andre

[Don Gibson]

quote" ...SPs Daylight Limited: 4449 pulling Spectrum Heavyweights."

If you care Dept:
#4449 (A GS-4) only pulled 'Heavyweights' at the end when in Commuter Service and they were painted black and had her skirts 'lifted'. The 'Pre-streamlined Daylight' car were painted Pullman Green and pulled by conventional steam such as non-shrouded 4-8-2's, and 4-8-4 (GS-l's).

Rivarossi, IHC, and Model Power only paint their Heavtweight's in Daylight colors to sell to the (nice word) uninitiated. I think most Espee types would prefer to see your #4449 with Athearn's coaches on a 5X8; however it's YOUR RR.

I'm thinking of running a Pooch AMTRAK with UP's M1000 coaches.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

Andre: Thanks for the picture, Al Phelps was a GREAT railroad photagrapher, and a good friend of my father's, they belonged to the same Masonic Lodge. Al took quite a few photos of our local hometown railroad, the Nevada County Narrow Gauge. You're right, it was Lathrop Junction, right out of Tracy, where the Daylights exchanged cars. Thanks for reminding me, like I said, Senility is such fun. If memory serves me right, the A-6's had 80" driving wheels and would scream like a banshee starting its train from Sacramento. But once they got going, the scenery would just FLY by. I'm with you, wi***hey had saved one.

Apparently the A-6's were also used on trains 53/54 before the San Joaquin Daylight and its Sacramento connection got streamlined equipment: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP3001.JPG That is one pretty locomotive. Here's a picture of sister engine #3003 http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP3003.JPG clearing showing the Worthington BL feedwater heater all the A-6's were equipped with.

And their bigger sisters, the P-4 4-6-2's looked like nothing so much as an A-6 "all growed up" [url}http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2402.JPG[/url].

Andre

[Mark300]

Just for a 'Hoot.' [:)]

The Western Maryland's Mixed Elkin's to Durbin W.Va run.

Up to WW2 it was consisted of
A light K1 Pacific,
1 combine (for the mail and baggage),
1 or 2 coaches

After WW2 until the early 50's;
An H7 or H8 2-8-0,
1 combine (for the mail, baggage and folks),
1 box car,
optional loads of coal, a gondola or flat car for lumber, autos or whatever,
A caboose (NE type w/fireball heralds).

And who says there's nothing sociable about freight? [8D]

Nothin' fancy. [^] It covered 47 mountainous miles in about 2-1/2 hours.

Mark

[Anonymous]

1. Union Pacific's City of Los Angeles[^]: This train makes sence on my layout since my layout is from Omaha to LA. The equiptment: Either an AB set of E6s or FEF-3 #844. For the passenger cars I'll use the 2 new sets from Rivarossi.

2. Santa Fe's Chief[:)]: Probably 3751 or an AB set of F3s pulling some Walthers or Athearn ATSF cars.

3. SPs Daylight Limited[8D]: 4449 pulling Spectrum Heavyweights.

All the passenger trains on my layout would be shortened versions, my layout is only 5x8![:p]

[twhite]

Andre: Thanks for the picture, Al Phelps was a GREAT railroad photagrapher, and a good friend of my father's, they belonged to the same Masonic Lodge. Al took quite a few photos of our local hometown railroad, the Nevada County Narrow Gauge. You're right, it was Lathrop Junction, right out of Tracy, where the Daylights exchanged cars. Thanks for reminding me, like I said, Senility is such fun. If memory serves me right, the A-6's had 80" driving wheels and would scream like a banshee starting its train from Sacramento. But once they got going, the scenery would just FLY by. I'm with you, wi***hey had saved one.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

Don Gibson: Your Daylights made me salivate all over the keyboard. FYI, yes, the 4-car daylight was pulled by an Atlantic from Sacramento to just south of Stockton (the name of the junction escapes me right now--senility is SUCH fun--) where it connected with the San Joaquin. Rode it between Sacramento and LA several times during the 'fifties, but by then the train was being pulled by Black Widow F's. Like the 4-8-2's assigned to the San Joaquins, the Atlantics were semi-painted (cab and tender) in Daylight colors, but the rest of the loco was the usual black and graphite. But you know that.

The San Joaquin Daylight and Sacramento Daylight swapped cars at Lathrop, CA. From the looks of the consist in this 1948 picture, it's going to be running heavy. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/1631/lathrop1.html.

I believe the Sacramento Daylight laid over in Tracy, a few miles from Lathrop.

Sure wi***he SP had saved an A-6. The A-3 in Travel Town is nice, but an A-6, NOW that was a 4-4-2. There's even a picture of one being used as a helper on a freight train in Beebe & Clegg's The Central Pacific And The Southern Pacific. Try THAT with a Pennsy E-6. [:D]

Andre

[twhite]

Don Gibson: Your Daylights made me salivate all over the keyboard. FYI, yes, the 4-car daylight was pulled by an Atlantic from Sacramento to just south of Stockton (the name of the junction escapes me right now--senility is SUCH fun--) where it connected with the San Joaquin. Rode it between Sacramento and LA several times during the 'fifties, but by then the train was being pulled by Black Widow F's. Like the 4-8-2's assigned to the San Joaquins, the Atlantics were semi-painted (cab and tender) in Daylight colors, but the rest of the loco was the usual black and graphite. But you know that.

[Anonymous]

ANTONIO FP45; is there any info on live steam that i can get. I wi***hat i had the space and money to do it. that you
[e-mail]

[jabrown1971]

Ok-time to weigh in:
Track 1 Amtrak's Eagle in the 80's Two F40's, baggage car, 10-6 Crew sleeper, plus the ex-ATSF Dorm-Coach, three Superliner coaches, coach baggage, diner, lounge and two sleepers. Impressive-throw in the occasional 6 axle ATSF hi-level diner and you have one heck of a train. Also-every now and again-a second section made up of Superliner coaches with a snack bar on one coach between Chicago and St. Louis.
Track 2-Amtraks Hoosier State/ Kentucky Cardinal depending on the time you model-Anything goes here due to the fact that it serves the Beech Grove Shops. Rode Once last year-2 P40's, elephant style, two Sightseer Lounges, Coach and a diner. Return trip no superliners-One P40, one regular coach (Horizon) a baggage car and a food service car (Horizon). Who says Amtrak is boring.
Track 3 and coming soon in N Scale Wabash Bluebird-gotta love it, favorite train in the world.

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks, Don!

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Don Gibson,

I teach my class with DuPont Automotive paint products. Do you happen to have the numbers of the paints that you used for your locomotive?

Yes (and No)

My 'Daylight' paints came from Richard Wright's MHP. When I contacted him later for refills, he said he "no longer had any room in his garage for 55 gallon drums".

Santa Fe colors I have some reference #'s - color chips + automotive paints in Dupont Lucite. I'm not sure how they tranlate to today's Dupont products.

Next time I go to the Brooklyn (SP Portland) Round house I can inquire about the current Daylight paint they buy for SP#4449 (the last remaining Daylight engine)which is currently painted in red white & blue 'Freedom Train' colors.

[AntonioFP45]

SILVER CHAMPION

That's a 10-4 on that!

Cheers with a Multi Unit lashup of E7s in run 8!!

[Anonymous]

TO ANTONIO FP45; THATS GREAT MY GG1 CHAMPION WILL ME YOU AT UNION STATION IN WASHINGTON D.C. SO THAT YOUR E7 CAN TAKE THE CHAMPION TO FLA. HAVE A GOOD TRIP

[AntonioFP45]

Don Gibson,

I teach my class with DuPont Automotive paint products. Do you happen to have the numbers of the paints that you used for your locomotive?

My students paint the rolling stock for the Largo Central Railroad, a live steamers club. We've refinished several locomotives and freight cars for them, including an SP Caboose. The most difficult challenge is "guesstimating" color formulas. We actually look at Athearn or MDC models and paint match those to do the large scale stuff.

Go to www.lcrailroad.com go to the pictures page and click on it. Click on September 2003 and you will see a red and black Seaboard Airline S12 that my students refinished with DuPont products.

Thanks!

[BRAKIE]

Sadly all the passenger trains I recall seeing was the sad remains of a once great train.Some a lone E8 with a baggage car and 2 coaches.So for me to model say the C&O Sportsman of the 60s I would need 2 E8s,2-3 baggage cars(for mail),one dinette(more like a snack car) and 3-4 coaches..[:(]
Was I to model this train I would use P2K E8As and not sure of the C&O cars..Perhaps Athearn,Rossi or the IHC cars?

[CP5415]

My favourite passenger train is CPR's Canadian.
If I had the room, I would model this train but since I don't, I'll make due with a shorter version.
I am however working on a version of D&H's train between Montreal & NY State.
My Proto D&H PA's are in (WOOHOO) & Walthers had announced that they are coming out with D&H coaches. Throw in my D&H dome car & I have myself an international passenger train.
I'm in the process of detailing my Athearn F7's so my CPR passenger train should be ready soon.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by psngrtrn

My favorite has been is ATSF 47-48 the oil Flyer
F7AB
baggage car
lightweight chair car
HWYT Chair diner
PSMC 10-3-2 sleeper
Ch

[8D][8D]SWEET!!!![8D][8D]