BRAKIE Jim,I fear what you say is becoming the norm for several reasons also I've notice a new trend(to me at least) one can no longer open the package to inspect the model and have it test ran.The reason quoted is" because of the fragile details" and "its factory sealed".. So,and IMHO its like buying a pig in a poke even though you can see one side.
Jim,I fear what you say is becoming the norm for several reasons also I've notice a new trend(to me at least) one can no longer open the package to inspect the model and have it test ran.The reason quoted is" because of the fragile details" and "its factory sealed"..
So,and IMHO its like buying a pig in a poke even though you can see one side.
Heya Larry
To be honest, I've been noticing LHS shops doing this more or less for the last 20-25 years. Now there may be a new trend afoot due to the last 3 years of economic down turn but it's just a tough way to make a living - and I've observed that many small LHS shops are run by retired people who aren't doing it to make a living but more as a "retirement hobby" which gives them a litte extra income - hopefully!
As far as opening and inspecting trains before buying, thats something I've almost never been a place where I could do that, mainly because I've lived in the east for the past 20+ years and most of the time the models I wish to purchase are west and loco's especially aren' t on the shelves to inspect cause eastern shops don't generally stock westerns stuff. What can you do?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Shopcat, It was that way when I had my Paintball Supply retail store in San Francisco during the 1990's and early 2000's. That is the reason I decided to get out while the getting was still good. It seems that many retail model train shop owners are doing the same.
Unless you were lucky enough to make the jump to the big time at the correct time, a small shop is now on the endangered list. The luck of the draw does apply.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
Not just model railroading....
Its both sad and comedic that this same discussion thread exists in so many different industries. Shoes, clothes, automobiles (and parts).....welcome to the new world order...
I was just this morning reading a blog thread, that has grown very long, extoling the same problems, dilemmas and fear in the retail music instrument world. Commonality?:
I don't believe there is an answer, or a magic pill to be found. As long as the commodities are value/price driven, this is how it will be.
In the music world, 100 years ago, the industry was up in arms over PIANO discounting and those dreaded mail order houses that would ship a piano (via rail) right to your home, killing the local dealer. Then came the "mass merchandiser" who really didn't specialize in the product, but just sold things off the shelf. Then came (horrors!) the 800 number. Then the dreaded catalog and the cursed "www."
Remember (I do) when MR would publish anyone's 800 number? Then it was web urls, now the advertising in the back for LHS' has gotten smaller and smaller, along with the calendar of events...(guess what...both are "local").
Believe me, fellow ferroequinologists, if this connundrum cannot be solved in much bigger industries than our little hobby based field.....then it may not be solvable...
Bums me out...
(ps. I used to work in a hobby shop for many years...and owned a retail music company)
Lion, I agree with your first posting about the younger modelers and others going on line. It is just they way it is.
Not good nor bad just the life of model railroading in the 21st century.
Also, try looking in your phone book under "Hobby Shops".
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Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Train Modeler GP-9_Man11786: Train Modeler: I know this has been discussed/posted before, but for it to hit so hard at this time of year was surprising to me. I went to one of the "main" LHSs here to go buy some pre-after Thanksgiving HO goodies. I wanted to make sure I got there when the inventory was at its' peak and selection at its' best. With anticipation my son and I walked to the very familiar aisles which we have done now for over 20 years(actually my son is only 13)--my Dad used to shop there and we would sometimes all 3 go together. After looking at the almost barren shelves I turned to the mgr(whom I've known for about 10 years now---he's new to the shop) and asked him where the inventory is--I mean it's Christmas(no offense meant to those who prefer Holidays) time. His response shocked me. 1. He said that there just aren't that many customers for trains any more and he's had to diversify into other areas. Almost all his train customers are gray haired and they are becoming much fewer in number. Acknowledging that my son was there, he said there aren't any younger customers replacing the older ones who are no longer active in buying. 2.That most customers don't want to spend much money per item and those who are willing to are rare and want a very specific item which makes stocking difficult. So, when I suggested it sounds like he's getting out of the train business, he said-no-we can order anything. As I was driving back to my house I was thinking about my son and how he is growing up in a much different world. Wondering about the concepts of "self fulfilling prophecy"/"chicken or the egg" and how regardless of the philosophy and thoughts on this forum, the result is that there will be less opportunity for him to see new product first hand at what used to be a special time of the year and therefore he won't continue to shop or buy models as a result. BTW, I normally spend about $200 to $800 on this annual trip--this weekend I spent 0. I was last in this store 4 months ago. Richard That local hobby shop you went to wouldn't be the Great Escape in Spartanburg would it? They seem to be luiquidating all their train stuff. Much better selection at Blue Ridge Hobbies in Greenville. Thanks for reply I really didn't want to say, but you're so close I will. It is the Great Escape in Greenville. I normally spent quite a bit there. I used to buy quite a bit at Blue Ridge too, but he told me he doesn't do phone orders any more. And once I have to start ordering online, I might as well go to MB Klein or somewhere else which has the cheapest price. I have found Rail and Spike in Easley to be the best stocked in the immediate area and Trainmaster in Buford, GA to probably be one of the best as well as the shop near Specer shops in NC. The Great Escape situation is sad to me since it's been where 3 generations of my family shopped. BTW, I like to come over and watch some train movements in Spartanburg every now and then. Ever been to the Krispy Kreme? I haven't, but hear that I should. Richard
GP-9_Man11786: Train Modeler: I know this has been discussed/posted before, but for it to hit so hard at this time of year was surprising to me. I went to one of the "main" LHSs here to go buy some pre-after Thanksgiving HO goodies. I wanted to make sure I got there when the inventory was at its' peak and selection at its' best. With anticipation my son and I walked to the very familiar aisles which we have done now for over 20 years(actually my son is only 13)--my Dad used to shop there and we would sometimes all 3 go together. After looking at the almost barren shelves I turned to the mgr(whom I've known for about 10 years now---he's new to the shop) and asked him where the inventory is--I mean it's Christmas(no offense meant to those who prefer Holidays) time. His response shocked me. 1. He said that there just aren't that many customers for trains any more and he's had to diversify into other areas. Almost all his train customers are gray haired and they are becoming much fewer in number. Acknowledging that my son was there, he said there aren't any younger customers replacing the older ones who are no longer active in buying. 2.That most customers don't want to spend much money per item and those who are willing to are rare and want a very specific item which makes stocking difficult. So, when I suggested it sounds like he's getting out of the train business, he said-no-we can order anything. As I was driving back to my house I was thinking about my son and how he is growing up in a much different world. Wondering about the concepts of "self fulfilling prophecy"/"chicken or the egg" and how regardless of the philosophy and thoughts on this forum, the result is that there will be less opportunity for him to see new product first hand at what used to be a special time of the year and therefore he won't continue to shop or buy models as a result. BTW, I normally spend about $200 to $800 on this annual trip--this weekend I spent 0. I was last in this store 4 months ago. Richard That local hobby shop you went to wouldn't be the Great Escape in Spartanburg would it? They seem to be luiquidating all their train stuff. Much better selection at Blue Ridge Hobbies in Greenville.
Train Modeler: I know this has been discussed/posted before, but for it to hit so hard at this time of year was surprising to me. I went to one of the "main" LHSs here to go buy some pre-after Thanksgiving HO goodies. I wanted to make sure I got there when the inventory was at its' peak and selection at its' best. With anticipation my son and I walked to the very familiar aisles which we have done now for over 20 years(actually my son is only 13)--my Dad used to shop there and we would sometimes all 3 go together. After looking at the almost barren shelves I turned to the mgr(whom I've known for about 10 years now---he's new to the shop) and asked him where the inventory is--I mean it's Christmas(no offense meant to those who prefer Holidays) time. His response shocked me. 1. He said that there just aren't that many customers for trains any more and he's had to diversify into other areas. Almost all his train customers are gray haired and they are becoming much fewer in number. Acknowledging that my son was there, he said there aren't any younger customers replacing the older ones who are no longer active in buying. 2.That most customers don't want to spend much money per item and those who are willing to are rare and want a very specific item which makes stocking difficult. So, when I suggested it sounds like he's getting out of the train business, he said-no-we can order anything. As I was driving back to my house I was thinking about my son and how he is growing up in a much different world. Wondering about the concepts of "self fulfilling prophecy"/"chicken or the egg" and how regardless of the philosophy and thoughts on this forum, the result is that there will be less opportunity for him to see new product first hand at what used to be a special time of the year and therefore he won't continue to shop or buy models as a result. BTW, I normally spend about $200 to $800 on this annual trip--this weekend I spent 0. I was last in this store 4 months ago. Richard
I know this has been discussed/posted before, but for it to hit so hard at this time of year was surprising to me. I went to one of the "main" LHSs here to go buy some pre-after Thanksgiving HO goodies. I wanted to make sure I got there when the inventory was at its' peak and selection at its' best.
With anticipation my son and I walked to the very familiar aisles which we have done now for over 20 years(actually my son is only 13)--my Dad used to shop there and we would sometimes all 3 go together. After looking at the almost barren shelves I turned to the mgr(whom I've known for about 10 years now---he's new to the shop) and asked him where the inventory is--I mean it's Christmas(no offense meant to those who prefer Holidays) time. His response shocked me.
1. He said that there just aren't that many customers for trains any more and he's had to diversify into other areas. Almost all his train customers are gray haired and they are becoming much fewer in number. Acknowledging that my son was there, he said there aren't any younger customers replacing the older ones who are no longer active in buying.
2.That most customers don't want to spend much money per item and those who are willing to are rare and want a very specific item which makes stocking difficult.
So, when I suggested it sounds like he's getting out of the train business, he said-no-we can order anything.
As I was driving back to my house I was thinking about my son and how he is growing up in a much different world. Wondering about the concepts of "self fulfilling prophecy"/"chicken or the egg" and how regardless of the philosophy and thoughts on this forum, the result is that there will be less opportunity for him to see new product first hand at what used to be a special time of the year and therefore he won't continue to shop or buy models as a result.
BTW, I normally spend about $200 to $800 on this annual trip--this weekend I spent 0. I was last in this store 4 months ago.
Richard
That local hobby shop you went to wouldn't be the Great Escape in Spartanburg would it? They seem to be luiquidating all their train stuff. Much better selection at Blue Ridge Hobbies in Greenville.
Thanks for reply
I really didn't want to say, but you're so close I will. It is the Great Escape in Greenville. I normally spent quite a bit there. I used to buy quite a bit at Blue Ridge too, but he told me he doesn't do phone orders any more. And once I have to start ordering online, I might as well go to MB Klein or somewhere else which has the cheapest price. I have found Rail and Spike in Easley to be the best stocked in the immediate area and Trainmaster in Buford, GA to probably be one of the best as well as the shop near Specer shops in NC. The Great Escape situation is sad to me since it's been where 3 generations of my family shopped.
BTW, I like to come over and watch some train movements in Spartanburg every now and then. Ever been to the Krispy Kreme? I haven't, but hear that I should.
If you're going to watch trains in Spartanburg, come to the old Southern Railway depot. You have the NS main line and CSX's forer Clinchfield and P&N lines all coming together. Allso you have the Hub City Railroad museum in the depot, where I volunteer.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
riogrande5761 Train Modeler: As I was driving back to my house I was thinking about my son and how he is growing up in a much different world. Wondering about the concepts of "self fulfilling prophecy"/"chicken or the egg" and how regardless of the philosophy and thoughts on this forum, the result is that there will be less opportunity for him to see new product first hand at what used to be a special time of the year and therefore he won't continue to shop or buy models as a result. Richard All I can say is if you were shocked, start getting used to what you saw because this kind of thing is getting to be more and more common. Learn to use the internet and find some good online suppliers. Complaining won't do you much good other than the psychological process of venting, then you have to deal with reality and move on with life.
Train Modeler: As I was driving back to my house I was thinking about my son and how he is growing up in a much different world. Wondering about the concepts of "self fulfilling prophecy"/"chicken or the egg" and how regardless of the philosophy and thoughts on this forum, the result is that there will be less opportunity for him to see new product first hand at what used to be a special time of the year and therefore he won't continue to shop or buy models as a result. Richard
All I can say is if you were shocked, start getting used to what you saw because this kind of thing is getting to be more and more common. Learn to use the internet and find some good online suppliers. Complaining won't do you much good other than the psychological process of venting, then you have to deal with reality and move on with life.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Train Modeler As I was driving back to my house I was thinking about my son and how he is growing up in a much different world. Wondering about the concepts of "self fulfilling prophecy"/"chicken or the egg" and how regardless of the philosophy and thoughts on this forum, the result is that there will be less opportunity for him to see new product first hand at what used to be a special time of the year and therefore he won't continue to shop or buy models as a result. Richard
Guys,I think we are seeing the dawning of a new era..
I fully believe there are younger folks in the hobby like before but,these newer modelers are passing by the "old school things" like hobby shops,clubs ,magazines etc in favor of on line shopping, forums and videos.
There are hundreds of "how to" videos on you tube that covers every modeling need from spray painting to hand laying track.These are like "live" clinics that is available with few clicks of your mouse..
Guys,I find this exciting and in some ways a little sad since I am a dinosaur from another era and still like some of the old ways.
MisterBeasley Yes, I'm growing gray, and most of the train items I buy are special orders. But, I do take advantage of my LHS for special orders, and I buy the small stuff there, too. Young customers are used to doing their shopping online. I'm guessing that idea of ordering something from a store and then going there to pick it up seems a bit odd to them. I mean, why not have it shipped right to my house, right? And there's the problem for the LHS. For me, I'm happy to save on the shipping charges, which would normally come out more than paying the sales tax. But, I feel that it's part of my mission in life to help the LHS and other local shops.
Yes, I'm growing gray, and most of the train items I buy are special orders. But, I do take advantage of my LHS for special orders, and I buy the small stuff there, too.
Young customers are used to doing their shopping online. I'm guessing that idea of ordering something from a store and then going there to pick it up seems a bit odd to them. I mean, why not have it shipped right to my house, right? And there's the problem for the LHS. For me, I'm happy to save on the shipping charges, which would normally come out more than paying the sales tax. But, I feel that it's part of my mission in life to help the LHS and other local shops.
Interestingly my two teenagers tell me that their friends and them prefer to shop in person vs online. They like going to stores in groups, socializing and getting Lattes or other drinks whether in a mall or plaza. My daughter wants a pair of Uggs and wouldn't let me buy them online, she wanted to go to the stores. I'm sure there are all different shopping types out there however.
I agree on helping the LHS!! Particularly since they're the only place where you can go try out a loco and hear the actual sound, etc.
GP-9_Man11786 Train Modeler: I know this has been discussed/posted before, but for it to hit so hard at this time of year was surprising to me. I went to one of the "main" LHSs here to go buy some pre-after Thanksgiving HO goodies. I wanted to make sure I got there when the inventory was at its' peak and selection at its' best. With anticipation my son and I walked to the very familiar aisles which we have done now for over 20 years(actually my son is only 13)--my Dad used to shop there and we would sometimes all 3 go together. After looking at the almost barren shelves I turned to the mgr(whom I've known for about 10 years now---he's new to the shop) and asked him where the inventory is--I mean it's Christmas(no offense meant to those who prefer Holidays) time. His response shocked me. 1. He said that there just aren't that many customers for trains any more and he's had to diversify into other areas. Almost all his train customers are gray haired and they are becoming much fewer in number. Acknowledging that my son was there, he said there aren't any younger customers replacing the older ones who are no longer active in buying. 2.That most customers don't want to spend much money per item and those who are willing to are rare and want a very specific item which makes stocking difficult. So, when I suggested it sounds like he's getting out of the train business, he said-no-we can order anything. As I was driving back to my house I was thinking about my son and how he is growing up in a much different world. Wondering about the concepts of "self fulfilling prophecy"/"chicken or the egg" and how regardless of the philosophy and thoughts on this forum, the result is that there will be less opportunity for him to see new product first hand at what used to be a special time of the year and therefore he won't continue to shop or buy models as a result. BTW, I normally spend about $200 to $800 on this annual trip--this weekend I spent 0. I was last in this store 4 months ago. Richard That local hobby shop you went to wouldn't be the Great Escape in Spartanburg would it? They seem to be luiquidating all their train stuff. Much better selection at Blue Ridge Hobbies in Greenville.
Train Modeler I know this has been discussed/posted before, but for it to hit so hard at this time of year was surprising to me. Richard
I know this has been discussed/posted before, but for it to hit so hard at this time of year was surprising to me.
You're certainly right on the first part of your comment -- this has been discussed on these forums for several years, on an almost monthly basis, but there's nothing we can do about it.
Around 1995 there were six hobby shops in Tucson, Arizona that carried or specialized in trains -- today, there's only one in an Ace Hardware store that also carries model aircraft, ships, R/C cars, and other items.
All of the others closed up over the years because the owners retired and no one would buy their shop. Owning a hobby shop today is an extremely risky business if you intend to sell only trains. I, too, have heard the comment, "We can order it for you" many times when I was looking for something they didn't have in stock. Well, I can order it too, and probably get it faster and cheaper than through the LHS.
As others have also stated, getting younger people interested in trains seems to be a losing battle. Our local club has 20 members, but only one is a teenager -- practically all the others are either retired or getting close to retirement.
We held an open house the weekend of 12-13 November. Many children visited with their parents or grandparents, but very few had ever seen a real train When asked if they had a train, the answer was nearly always, "Yes, a Thomas the Tank Engine set" from Brio (wooden toys) or Bachmann.
No surprise. In Northern Virginia the few hobby shops with trains that are left mostly carry Lionel and other 3 rail lines. There may be a small HO and N section, but it's apparent that Lionel pays the freight and at list price. But then the area is very affluent, while many people have little time for building stuff. Scratch building supplies are limited or non-existent. One owner told me he's dropping paint because there's no demand for it.
Paul
Maybe because I am 71 now ,I have gottin' use to things changing rapidly.We are in modeling golden age so just relax and enjoy it,besides nothin' is forever.
Once Upon a time.........
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Train Modeler So, when I suggested it sounds like he's getting out of the train business, he said-no-we can order anything.
Our local hobby shop plans to go out of business after Christmas. His isles are looking kinda thin. He has an elaborate layout, he will keep some of his trains, sell the rest, and leave the layout for the landlord to worry about.
He has lost interest in the whole thing, but then this guy never was running on all four. Sorry to see him go, but then I am not a big spender. And he does not stock subway trains. Sure he could order them, big news flash: SO CAN I. And I can get them for less than he can.
And that is the bottom line, more and more people are willing to buy on line, and they know what the real price really is.
The big get bigger and the small wither up and blow away. If he does go out of business, I think that will leave only one hobby shop in the state, and they are located on the grounds of an airport, so guess what hobbies they are interested in.
ROAR
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Train Modeler I know this has been discussed/posted before, but for it to hit so hard at this time of year was surprising to me. I went to one of the "main" LHSs here to go buy some pre-after Thanksgiving HO goodies. I wanted to make sure I got there when the inventory was at its' peak and selection at its' best. With anticipation my son and I walked to the very familiar aisles which we have done now for over 20 years(actually my son is only 13)--my Dad used to shop there and we would sometimes all 3 go together. After looking at the almost barren shelves I turned to the mgr(whom I've known for about 10 years now---he's new to the shop) and asked him where the inventory is--I mean it's Christmas(no offense meant to those who prefer Holidays) time. His response shocked me. 1. He said that there just aren't that many customers for trains any more and he's had to diversify into other areas. Almost all his train customers are gray haired and they are becoming much fewer in number. Acknowledging that my son was there, he said there aren't any younger customers replacing the older ones who are no longer active in buying. 2.That most customers don't want to spend much money per item and those who are willing to are rare and want a very specific item which makes stocking difficult. So, when I suggested it sounds like he's getting out of the train business, he said-no-we can order anything. As I was driving back to my house I was thinking about my son and how he is growing up in a much different world. Wondering about the concepts of "self fulfilling prophecy"/"chicken or the egg" and how regardless of the philosophy and thoughts on this forum, the result is that there will be less opportunity for him to see new product first hand at what used to be a special time of the year and therefore he won't continue to shop or buy models as a result. BTW, I normally spend about $200 to $800 on this annual trip--this weekend I spent 0. I was last in this store 4 months ago. Richard
Richard,
What you are seeing is very common. Our model railroad club held a 2 day 'open house' this past week-end. We had the best turnout of all time - the aisles were crowed all day. Most of the crowd was older and 'gray' - They had their grandchildren along to see the trains.
Most of our member are over 50(one is about 30). And half of our membership is retired. I will be retiring at the end of this year! There appears to be growing interest in trains, but the LHS we have really sells R/C stuff(airplanes/helicopters/trucks). We have not had a model train shop in town(100,000 population) for over 6 years.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin