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PFM CPR Selkirk 2-10-4 - Update - Retired

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, November 12, 2012 11:27 PM

Don7:

There is a Tenshodo CP Royal Hudson 4-6-4 #2860 offered on eBay right now. It is currently at $410.00 and there are still 4 days left on the offer. According to the listing it was made in 1980 and it is #75 of the series. It looks to be in great condition. I drool but I cannot affordSad

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, November 12, 2012 10:30 PM

No, of course I´m not. Otherwise I wouldn´t have asked.

But in my eyes it would be better to make the 2 outer drivers flangless, wouldn´t it? I mean it´s the length that makes the engine rigid in curves. So with the 2 outher drivers being flangless that would shorten the wheelbase of flanged drivers down from 5 to 3. Wouldn´t that be more effective than to grind down the flanges of just the center driver?

By the way I don´t even have the tooling for grinding the flanges down. And making somebody else do that job for me is unpayable. Tongue Tied

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Posted by selector on Monday, November 12, 2012 10:01 PM

Possibly.  But it will be a lot of work.  First, remove the rods and valve gear, keeping a record of what goes where....and for crying out loud, don't lose anything!!!  Take photos as you go.

Then, either remove the middle axle or leave it in place and invert and power the locomotive so that it runs upside down.  What you must do in either case is to creat flangeless drivers by grinding them down.  In fact, you may have to do that to any two of the middle axles, but start with one axle.

Are you sure you want to do this?

Crandell

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, November 12, 2012 9:46 PM

@ don7 & CP Guy in TX:

As you both have a Samhongsa/Van Hobbies/PFM 2-10-4 Selkirk, I am asking you: is there ANY CHANCE to make this engine run through 20 inch radius curves??? What modifications would be needed to make her "20"-able"?? I currently have the chance to buy this beautiful Samhongsa/Van Hobbies/PFM T-1a (model dates from 1975) for a very good price:

I would so love to have that Selkirk run on my layout. But the engine MUST be able to take 20 inch curves without problems because I don´t have any space or possibilities for larger curves. Otherwise I cannot use it.

Since MTH is planning to release a beautiful Soo Line Alco FA-1/FB-1 next year, I thought about the idea of putting together a nice 10 car Mountaineer passenger train featuring Soo Line and Canadian Pacific cars by Walthers, which would be pulled by the Soo Line FA-1/FB-1 and Canadian Pacific T-1a! That would be such a great looking train!

Daniel

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Posted by don7 on Friday, December 9, 2011 10:52 PM

None of the T1a's were saved. Two T1c's were saved, 5935 which is in a museum in Quebec and 5931 which is on display in Calgary at the historic Heritage Park.

 

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Posted by CP guy in TX on Friday, December 9, 2011 9:40 PM

If they were retired early, 5931 must have been almost like new when she was put out to pasture.

Did they save any of the T1a's?

Van Hobbies H1b, K1a, T1c, D10g, F1a, F2a, G5a. Division Point: H24-66 Hammerhead, Alco covered wagons A-B-B-A, C-Liner A-B-B-A, EMD FP7A A-B-B.

H1b modified to replicate modern day 2816. All with Tsunamis.

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Posted by cx500 on Tuesday, December 6, 2011 8:38 PM

CP guy in TX

I don't know how true it is, but my grandfather used to say how the 5900's hated the open prairie, and were not a fun ride at 55 mph.

Probably quite true.  They were designed  for use in the mountain passes, where speeds were generally rather lower due to grades and curvature.  When diesels took over the Calgary-Revelstoke territory about 1952 the T-1-c group in particular were only three years old, too new for the accountants to permit scrapping.  So instead they were reassigned to work east, and maybe north, from Calgary instead of west.  The ride may have been rough, but the pounding at higher speeds had significant adverse effects on both the running gear and the track.  No wonder they were all retired some years before the end of steam while much older but more versatile classes kept running off the miles.

John

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Posted by CP guy in TX on Tuesday, December 6, 2011 3:53 PM

I don't know how true it is, but my grandfather used to say how the 5900's hated the open prairie, and were not a fun ride at 55 mph.

Van Hobbies H1b, K1a, T1c, D10g, F1a, F2a, G5a. Division Point: H24-66 Hammerhead, Alco covered wagons A-B-B-A, C-Liner A-B-B-A, EMD FP7A A-B-B.

H1b modified to replicate modern day 2816. All with Tsunamis.

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Posted by tatans on Tuesday, December 6, 2011 2:28 PM

Isambard

Not the answer to when was the last steam in Field; however the T1a 2-10-4's were scrapped in 1956 and the T1b's and T1c's were assigned for use between Calgary and Swift Current.

The T1b's were disposed of in 1957 and the T1c's in 1959, all scrapped except 5935 to the Canadian Railway Museum and 5931 to Calgary (renumbered as 5934).

 

--between Calgary and Swift Current- - -  AND at least ONCE to Moose Jaw, although I don't have a photo of it on the wye.

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Posted by CP guy in TX on Tuesday, December 6, 2011 12:14 AM

As much as I love the 2800's, 3100's, and others, nothing can hold a candle to the 5900's...

[View:http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/themes/trc/utility/

 

[View:http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/themes/trc/utility/Photobucket:550:0][View:http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/themes/trc/utility/Photobucket:550:0]Photobucket:550:0]

Van Hobbies H1b, K1a, T1c, D10g, F1a, F2a, G5a. Division Point: H24-66 Hammerhead, Alco covered wagons A-B-B-A, C-Liner A-B-B-A, EMD FP7A A-B-B.

H1b modified to replicate modern day 2816. All with Tsunamis.

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Posted by Don 2816 on Monday, December 5, 2011 11:47 PM

Steam can still be seen a couple of times a year in Field.  CP 2816  H1b  4-6-4 travels thru Field from Calgary on excursions to Golden, Revelstoke, or Vancouver.  There's an excellent IMAX movie of this trip now showing in eastern Canada and it will be shown out west next Spring and Summer.

Don

 

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Posted by Isambard on Monday, December 5, 2011 10:23 PM

Not the answer to when was the last steam in Field; however the T1a 2-10-4's were scrapped in 1956 and the T1b's and T1c's were assigned for use between Calgary and Swift Current.

The T1b's were disposed of in 1957 and the T1c's in 1959, all scrapped except 5935 to the Canadian Railway Museum and 5931 to Calgary (renumbered as 5934).

 

Isambard

Grizzly Northern history, Tales from the Grizzly and news on line at  isambard5935.blogspot.com 

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Posted by tatans on Monday, December 5, 2011 3:33 PM

don7: Really appreciate those photos in Field, we used to hit the beer parlour in Field on ski trips to Lake Louise and also climbing in the summer, the place was full of railroaders and they were the friendliest people I've ever encountered, and the stories they told we unbelievable (but true!) this was in the late 50's and early 60's and it was a large railway town- - when was the last steam in Field??

Thanks again for the photos----got more? ?

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Posted by Isambard on Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:32 PM

To get back on topic; here's the real thing - CPR 5935 at Exporail (Canadian Railway Museum) St. Constant, QC, August 2005.

 

Isambard

Grizzly Northern history, Tales from the Grizzly and news on line at  isambard5935.blogspot.com 

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Posted by Isambard on Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:21 PM

Here's a more recent photo of Field, a trial run of the Royal Canadian on 23 July 1989. The roundhouse used to be to the right.

Isambard

Grizzly Northern history, Tales from the Grizzly and news on line at  isambard5935.blogspot.com 

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Posted by don7 on Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:13 PM

Isambard

Those are steam pipes for melting winter snow falls. Field does get quite a bit of snow! :):)

The steam boiler in the powerhouse attached to the roundhouse was used to provide heat to those homes that were built on the CPR r/w.

These houses were assigned to various railroad personal that lived in the Field Townsite. There were about a dozen houses on the r/w.

I was in Field one winter and it was strange to see steam venting along the r/w at random points. The steam was leaking from broken pipes. When the roundhouse and turntable were demolished the houses that still remained had to have heating units installed.

When I was onsite that time there were 3 stalls of the roundhouse was still in use. The others had all been demoilished.

I have a picture of the roundhouse when it was in use and also of the yard.

 

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Posted by Isambard on Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:26 AM

Those are steam pipes for melting winter snow falls. Field does get quite a bit of snow! :):)

Isambard

Grizzly Northern history, Tales from the Grizzly and news on line at  isambard5935.blogspot.com 

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Posted by tatans on Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:07 AM

don7

Forgot to mention that I had a picture of the prototype Selkirk.  It was taken in BC at Field BC on the turntable, note the second sandbox, same as the model.http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/northern10/SelkirkonturntableField5904.jpg

 

I notice there are 5 additional tracks in the turntable pit, probably needed with that 5900 on it, now I know why the 5900 would not fit the turntable in Moose Jaw. It  barely fits the Field turntable, nice photo.

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Posted by Isambard on Saturday, December 3, 2011 7:00 PM

As another comparison, CNR's 4100 series 2-10-2 Santa Fe's were the Canadian heavy weight predecessors to the CPR's 5900 series Selkirks, at 655,000 lbs engine and tender, 80,265 T.E. plus 11,470 lbs for booster

Isambard

Grizzly Northern history, Tales from the Grizzly and news on line at  isambard5935.blogspot.com 

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Posted by selector on Saturday, December 3, 2011 5:03 PM

Isambard

Lavallée's CPR Steam shows T1a locomotive weight loaded as 452,000 lbs and tender loaded 297,500 llbs, for a total of 750,000 lbs. Tractive Effort was 77,200 lbs, plus 12,000 lbs with booster.  

By comparison, the Penny's J1 had around 96K pounds of tractive effort without booster.  With booster, it was well over 100K pounds.  It helped that is was a much heavier and larger locomotive than the Selkirk.

Crandell

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Posted by Isambard on Saturday, December 3, 2011 5:00 PM

Lavallée's CPR Steam shows T1a locomotive weight loaded as 452,000 lbs and tender loaded 297,500 llbs, for a total of 750,000 lbs. Tractive Effort was 77,200 lbs, plus 12,000 lbs with booster.  

Isambard

Grizzly Northern history, Tales from the Grizzly and news on line at  isambard5935.blogspot.com 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, December 3, 2011 8:40 AM

CP guy in TX

That monster looks like it could hook on to the roundhouse and drag it over to cover the turntable pit.

 

No kidding.

I am surprised that the turntable bridge doesn't collapse under the weight of that behemoth.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by CP guy in TX on Saturday, December 3, 2011 8:22 AM

That's an awesome photo.

Typical interior B.C., huh? I feel chilled to the bone just looking at it.

That monster looks like it could hook on to the roundhouse and drag it over to cover the turntable pit.

 

Van Hobbies H1b, K1a, T1c, D10g, F1a, F2a, G5a. Division Point: H24-66 Hammerhead, Alco covered wagons A-B-B-A, C-Liner A-B-B-A, EMD FP7A A-B-B.

H1b modified to replicate modern day 2816. All with Tsunamis.

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Posted by don7 on Friday, December 2, 2011 9:22 PM

Forgot to mention that I had a picture of the prototype Selkirk.  It was taken in BC at Field BC on the turntable, note the second sandbox, same as the model.

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Posted by don7 on Monday, November 28, 2011 2:35 PM

richhotrain

Don,

That engine looks great on the tracks.  Good to hear that it runs well.  Any chance of a video?

I am pleasantly surprised to hear that the Con Cor cars run well.  Maybe the newer ones have been improved and problems corrected.  When I bought a set of the older non-lighted cars a few years back, I had all kinds of problems with the truck mounted couplers.

Rich

Rich,

Sorry no video camera.

The new Con-Cor cars are worth inspecting if you get a chance. They have some much more detail than the old versions. They have interiors and built in DC/DCC lighting which works quite well. Although I prefer to run the cars without lighting. The new Con-Cor cars have their couplers mounted on the body.

 

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Posted by don7 on Monday, November 28, 2011 2:12 PM

CP guy in TX

I always loved the T1A.

Somehow, when CPR put the shrouding on the later T1's, the loco lost it's look of raw, brute horsepower that the T1A had.

That thing looks like it could snort it's way up a 3% grade with a hundred cars and not even breathe hard!

Awesome engine. Let's see a video. Hopefully of a better quality than I've made..LOL!

CP guy in TX

I know what you mean about the shrouded locomotives. You, yourself most aptly described them as "beer cans" in appearance in one of your posts.

I would like to obtain a CPR 4-6-4 someday but it would have to be the unshrouded version as well.

 I do not have a video camera perhaps one day I will see if the local railway club would let me run it on their layout I know several of their members have a video camera.

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Posted by CP guy in TX on Monday, November 28, 2011 8:00 AM

I always loved the T1A.

Somehow, when CPR put the shrouding on the later T1's, the loco lost it's look of raw, brute horsepower that the T1A had.

That thing looks like it could snort it's way up a 3% grade with a hundred cars and not even breathe hard!

Awesome engine. Let's see a video. Hopefully of a better quality than I've made..LOL!

Van Hobbies H1b, K1a, T1c, D10g, F1a, F2a, G5a. Division Point: H24-66 Hammerhead, Alco covered wagons A-B-B-A, C-Liner A-B-B-A, EMD FP7A A-B-B.

H1b modified to replicate modern day 2816. All with Tsunamis.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, November 28, 2011 4:11 AM

Don,

That engine looks great on the tracks.  Good to hear that it runs well.  Any chance of a video?

I am pleasantly surprised to hear that the Con Cor cars run well.  Maybe the newer ones have been improved and problems corrected.  When I bought a set of the older non-lighted cars a few years back, I had all kinds of problems with the truck mounted couplers.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by don7 on Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:11 PM

Breaking in the Selkirk.

Has run for a few hours now, layout has a 2 1/2% grade without any problems. Picked up a set of the new Con-Cor coaches and they track really well. The coaches have interiors and DC/DCC lighting installed.

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:25 AM

don7

This engine will run on 26" track, it has to run slow though.

It will run fine on 28" and up track. When I designed my layout I had not thought of big steam like this so it will run on an oval on a portion of my layout only.

At this point in time I have no plans to re-do my layout but that could change.

Don,

That is great that the 2-10-4 runs well on 28" radius curves. 

I have a BLI 2-10-4 running on 32" radius curves, and I have problems at higher speeds.

Yours may be heavier than mine or, maybe, it is just a better built engine than mine.

Rich

Alton Junction

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