riogrande5761 Hmmm, 1980's freight trains, loco's, etc along side pre-Amtrak passenger cars and F units? You don't have to have dual era's to do that all you silly people. Just model the D&RGW in 1982 and you can have F9's, California Zephyr passenger cars along side GP40's, GP40-2's, SD40T-2's, SD45's, GP30's etc. There, that wasn't so hard ;-)
Hmmm, 1980's freight trains, loco's, etc along side pre-Amtrak passenger cars and F units? You don't have to have dual era's to do that all you silly people. Just model the D&RGW in 1982 and you can have F9's, California Zephyr passenger cars along side GP40's, GP40-2's, SD40T-2's, SD45's, GP30's etc.
There, that wasn't so hard ;-)
Oh man, thanks for giving me GAS* riogrande5761.
Honestly, I think the Rio Grande Zephyr would be a beautiful train to model (love all those dome cars).
Consist from a web search:
• EMD F9 locomotives (A-B or A-B-B)
• Steam generator car rebuilt from an ALCO PB1
• Combine 1230 or 1231
• Coach - Silver Aspen
• Coach - Silver Pine
• Vista-Dome Coach - Silver Bronco
• Vista-Dome chair car - Silver Pony
• Vista-Dome chair car - Silver Colt
• Vista-Dome chair car - Silver Mustang
• Vista-Dome dormitory-buffet-lounge car - Silver Shop
• Diner (48 seats) - Silver Banquet
• Vista-Dome buffet-lounge-observation - Silver Sky
And, of course, there was also the Rio Grande Ski Train...
Here I go again.
* GAS = Gear Acquisition Syndrome; a term some of us musician types use to describe the feelings of, "Now I just have to get me one of those!" I'm sure it applies to some model train enthusiasts as well.
Vic
Modelling the span between the real and the N-sane...
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Everyone loves those classic stainless steel streamliners. So much so that they stayed in service a long time. Canada's ViaRail still operates them for long distance trains thru the Canadian Rockies. At least they still have pix of them on their web site.
If the Canadians can still operate them in 2011, surely it doesn't take that much modeler's license to operate them on Burlington Northern in 1980. For that matter Union Pacific has a whole train of them painted yellow and gray, and a big steamer to pull them, and they run them on the track occasionally.
So for a 1980's layout I don't see a problem running streamliners. You can say marketing thought they would draw passengers. If the Canadians can do it, why not you favorite western road?
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
If I may, I'd would just like to say thank you to everyone who has replied to this thread. You've been quite an inspiration and have taught me that I'm not the only one with a love of trains that transcend an interest regarding era and/or locale that we enjoy running (no matter how many poo poos we may get from anyone).
trainsBuddy The more I think about keeping strict era, railroad policy the more I think it shouldn't restrict modelers choice in most cases. I think such rules make good sense if modeler has or operates on a layout modeled after a specific area and era, i.e. not freelanced. Another reason would be during a large operating session, in which you would want to stay close to realism, because realism is the actual point of the operating session. In most other scenarios, I think it doesn't really matter. Most of the time you are running train on your own, through a non prototypical layout - so there isn't anyone present to care. In a big scheme of things we are just running pretty trains around the track.
The more I think about keeping strict era, railroad policy the more I think it shouldn't restrict modelers choice in most cases. I think such rules make good sense if modeler has or operates on a layout modeled after a specific area and era, i.e. not freelanced. Another reason would be during a large operating session, in which you would want to stay close to realism, because realism is the actual point of the operating session.
In most other scenarios, I think it doesn't really matter. Most of the time you are running train on your own, through a non prototypical layout - so there isn't anyone present to care. In a big scheme of things we are just running pretty trains around the track.
trainsBuddy - After 40+ years of model railroading I've no reason to disagree with anything you've said. No matter how seriously anyone researches a prototype, builds exacting models, or replicates prototypical maneuvers or schedules on their layouts it's still just a hobby. It's a great hobby I'll say, but it's still just a means to relax from the outside world.
The reason I *try* to stay in the specific era and passenger railroads is simple - so that I don't go broke buying all those pretty trains
Ah, but in my case, I already have all those "pretty trains". Now all I have to do is find a way to run them without sending my own sensibilities into the deep end.
Texas Zepher I say your delimma is bigger than simply saying it is my railroad and I'll do what I please, and just running the trains becuase you want to. Isn't it more than simply running a passenger train around on the tracks? I can't imagine running passenger trains without stations for them to run to. Most passenger stations were gone by 1980. I mean even many big ones like St. Louis, Wichita, Omaha stations were out of use by that time. Then there is the lack of trackage for locomotive and front end work. I mean what would the Super Chief be without swapping the RPO car out in La Junta, CO. Or the CZ without swapping out the power in Denver or SLC. That swapping the CB&Q E units for the D&RGW PA units in Denver or them for the WP F7ABBs in Salt Lake. I guess I'm saying the track plan for passenger service is different than one for freight in 1990.
I say your delimma is bigger than simply saying it is my railroad and I'll do what I please, and just running the trains becuase you want to.
Isn't it more than simply running a passenger train around on the tracks? I can't imagine running passenger trains without stations for them to run to. Most passenger stations were gone by 1980. I mean even many big ones like St. Louis, Wichita, Omaha stations were out of use by that time. Then there is the lack of trackage for locomotive and front end work. I mean what would the Super Chief be without swapping the RPO car out in La Junta, CO. Or the CZ without swapping out the power in Denver or SLC. That swapping the CB&Q E units for the D&RGW PA units in Denver or them for the WP F7ABBs in Salt Lake. I guess I'm saying the track plan for passenger service is different than one for freight in 1990.
Texas Zepher - you make a very good point, though it's not one I'm unfamiliar with. With my love of the "Varnish", my collection consists of trains that never even came close to running close to each other, either by location or era.
As it stands, my current layout plan only allows for 3 station stops for Amtrak trains which originate and depart to a hidden staging yard. The more I think about it, the more my simple solution of plopping down a large (and unspecified) station over the yard tracks and switching out a 80/90's truck transfer station for a 50's RPO office and a commissary terminal seems woefully unsatisfactory for handling a complex passenger-only layout.
I'm seriously beginning to consider a 2 tier layout; both unconnected with each modeling the multiple eras I'm interested it.
Texas Zepher My dilemma is different. I have many trains that never met each other in real life. In real life the 20th Century Limited and Broadway Limited would never meet the Santa Fe Chief (even though they shared cars) since Santa Fe ran out of Deerborn and NYC & PA used Chicago Union.
My dilemma is different. I have many trains that never met each other in real life. In real life the 20th Century Limited and Broadway Limited would never meet the Santa Fe Chief (even though they shared cars) since Santa Fe ran out of Deerborn and NYC & PA used Chicago Union.
Maybe they never met, but they came close. The Broadway Limited and the Santa Fe Chief crossed each other at Alton Junction (21st Street) as the PRR headed for Union Station and the Santa Fe headed for Dearborn Station. On its way to LaSalle Street Station, the 20th Century Limited crossed over the Santa Fe on elevated tracks at 16th Street, while the Santa Fe passed below on submerged tracks headed into Dearborn Station. And, of course, the 20th Century Limited and Broadway Limited ran side by side into and out of Englewood Station at 63rd Street.
Rich
Alton Junction
Think about VIA's Canadian, a pretty traditional looking streamlined passenger train operating along side of contempoary freight equipment. Swap the F40's for an ABBA set of your choice for visual (IMHO) improvement.
My delimma is different. I have many trains that never met each other in real life. In real life the 20th Century Limited and Broadway Limited would never meet the Santa Fe Chief (even though they shared cars) since Santa Fe ran out of Deerborn and NYC & PA used Chicago Union. I haven't solved my delimma, but here is how I am dealing with it. I operate at enough other layouts where I can take my equipment to. So I run my cool passenger trains where they are applicable on other peoples layouts, or at the club, or at the museum. There is no way could justify a Portland Rose or City of St. Louis my layout, but I have two friends with layouts where they fit in perfectly.
In my little N guage universe, I have created a mythical company named "TRAC" which is an acronym for the my company's name "Transcontinental Rail and Cruise". This organization had the good forsight to buy up many of the great name train sets when Amtrac came along and they have carefully restored each train set to their formal beauty.
Now days, they offer a transcontinental rail/cruise package that departs from several terminals on the east coast. After a 3 day luxury train ride, passengers arrive at my terminal in the Mojave desert where they are bused down to hill to board their cruise ship in San Diego where they are treated to a 9 day cruise through the Panama Canal returning to their East Coast point of departure. Of course, the service is offered in the opposite direction as well and a new cruise option to Alaska and back has recently been added.
This explains why you can see the full length "Broadway Limited" or "Daylight" train arriving at my little Santa Fe style station in a desert setting while Amtrac "Superliners" go by on another track. "TRAC" has even converted a GG-1 to a diesel/electric configuration which allows the GG-1 to pull the historic "Braodway Limited" even though there are no wires overhead.
"TRAC" is very successful with at least 3 historic name trains arriving and departin each week from several different spots on the East Coast and Midwest. The company is hopeful that in the near future it will be able to acquire an N guage "20th Century Limited" from a well known Japanese company. If a Hudson stem locomotive is included in the deal, it will be perfection.
Gerry
Obviously there are many great ideas here, depending on how authentic you want the world to be. My railroad is modernish say early 90's, but with some first generation power hanging around. Additionally, B&O exists as an east coast Passenger only railroad simular to Amtrak. BN, GTW, and DM&IR all run passenger trains on my layout. They use older passenger cars, usually walthers or Rapido but they might have modern power depending on if it is HEP installed. I just got the Athearn BN GP60M, and I am looking to modify it for passenger service. So I subscribe to the theory of do what you want, it is your road?
duckdogger No dilemma - its' your model railroad so operate as you like. Your skills will be demonstrated in your models and by the execution of the railroad itself. If there are those who pooh-pooh your efforts, so what? I say again, it's your model railroad.
No dilemma - its' your model railroad so operate as you like. Your skills will be demonstrated in your models and by the execution of the railroad itself. If there are those who pooh-pooh your efforts, so what?
I say again, it's your model railroad.
Amen!
Like Duckdogger said, it's your layout, you're the CEO. Do as you wish.
I'm modeling the D&H, MY WAY. I have PA's running passenger trains CPR, VIA & Amtrak trains.
I'm even thinking about putting together a Santa Fe train, just because I like the Santa Fe railroad.
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
Flying switch56Mike - I've no idea how I left out the Rio Grande in my first post (and being from Colorado that's almost a crime). The same goes for the SP. SNIP As for narrow gauge... Um... Looking for plausible explanations is giving me a headache. I need to just run some trains. Vic
SNIP
As for narrow gauge... Um...
Looking for plausible explanations is giving me a headache.
I need to just run some trains.
Vic,
Headache? I get those when I do algebra
Maybe you just need a huge staging yard. Then you can park different eras out of sight, then bring them "on stage" depending on what you feel like running?
One thing I've found out is that I've tended to settle into one era and run it for awhile. So maybe you just need a chest to store the equipment from eras that are off the layout right now? That works even if you don't have room for massive staging infrastructure.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman Vic, To me, the answer is simple. You just have the wrong western RR prototype. If you go Rio Grande, you can have it all. Run a California Zephyr, then slide the era forward to SP or even UP-era. Heck, you can even run narrowgauge, although that is stretching things before 1980 a little...
To me, the answer is simple. You just have the wrong western RR prototype. If you go Rio Grande, you can have it all. Run a California Zephyr, then slide the era forward to SP or even UP-era. Heck, you can even run narrowgauge, although that is stretching things before 1980 a little...
Mike - I've no idea how I left out the Rio Grande in my first post (and being from Colorado that's almost a crime). The same goes for the SP.
One of my favorite California Zephyr's is pulled by a pair of PA's wearing the black with yellow stripes honeybee scheme. That kind of locks it into around 1948-1949, but who's to say it didn't run into a mysterious "Colorado Triangle" and ended up in 1980?
Then again, maybe there was a little known restoration project funded by a deep pocketed railroad enthusiast who loved the look of the 1948 Zephyr so much that he rebuilt and painted the train in the original scheme for his own private rail transportation?
tomikawaTT Flying switch56: In my case, however, several years ago I became intrigued with the concept of trying to model a railroad to a specific era or theme and I found that it's a bit more difficult than I thought, especially with my interest in such divergent eras. But the good thing is, I'm enjoying the challenge. Vic I more than slightly resemble that. In my case, the showgirl at the church social was my desire to include a specific major colliery - in an area that never had a working coal mine. My solution? Change universes. In Universe 3, Neil Armstrong, things happen the way history books say they did - including Amtrak in 1971. In Universe 1, Leslie LaCroix, railroads were supplanted by `rolling roads.' In the Universe of your choice, the CPSC came along early enough to ban consumer use of gasoline as too dangerous for untrained people to be anywhere near, Henry Ford made his money mass-producing sailboats and the railroads not only have the great trains, they have a hammerlock on intercity travel. If your alternatives are stagecoach, horse and hike it... As for me, my completely prototypical (except for station names) Nihon Kokutetsu interchanges Japan-size unit coal trains (with cars of no acknowledged ancestry) with the Tomikawa Tani Tetsudo, a railroad that never existed in the real world. I even found holes they could fit into in the September, 1964 employee timetable. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in Universe 13, Alfred E. Neumann)
Flying switch56: In my case, however, several years ago I became intrigued with the concept of trying to model a railroad to a specific era or theme and I found that it's a bit more difficult than I thought, especially with my interest in such divergent eras. But the good thing is, I'm enjoying the challenge. Vic
In my case, however, several years ago I became intrigued with the concept of trying to model a railroad to a specific era or theme and I found that it's a bit more difficult than I thought, especially with my interest in such divergent eras.
But the good thing is, I'm enjoying the challenge.
I more than slightly resemble that.
In my case, the showgirl at the church social was my desire to include a specific major colliery - in an area that never had a working coal mine. My solution? Change universes.
In Universe 3, Neil Armstrong, things happen the way history books say they did - including Amtrak in 1971. In Universe 1, Leslie LaCroix, railroads were supplanted by `rolling roads.' In the Universe of your choice, the CPSC came along early enough to ban consumer use of gasoline as too dangerous for untrained people to be anywhere near, Henry Ford made his money mass-producing sailboats and the railroads not only have the great trains, they have a hammerlock on intercity travel. If your alternatives are stagecoach, horse and hike it...
As for me, my completely prototypical (except for station names) Nihon Kokutetsu interchanges Japan-size unit coal trains (with cars of no acknowledged ancestry) with the Tomikawa Tani Tetsudo, a railroad that never existed in the real world. I even found holes they could fit into in the September, 1964 employee timetable.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in Universe 13, Alfred E. Neumann)
That was brilliant Chuck! You've helped to easy my feelings of fishman alienation due to my (now faded) desire to build the Lovecraft Central, a branch line jointly owned by the Arkham Necronomicon Printing complex and the Dunwich mine.
On a side note, just as I was preparing to start work on the Lovecraft layout my house was flooded. After nearly a years worth of repairs, I was again about to start building the layout when my home was hit by a larger and more devastating flood.
Mere coincidence, or was someone somewhere trying to tell me something...?
MisterBeasley I took these two pictures 30 years apart one day... Since then, I've added old-style glass top gas pumps, and different gas price signs to the Texaco station in the background. Visitors to your layout who aren't "train people" will recognize autos and other details more readily than steam vs. diesel as indicators of era.
I took these two pictures 30 years apart one day...
Since then, I've added old-style glass top gas pumps, and different gas price signs to the Texaco station in the background. Visitors to your layout who aren't "train people" will recognize autos and other details more readily than steam vs. diesel as indicators of era.
MisterBeasley - It's not only amazing that you found practically the exact same spot to take the photos 30 years apart, but that the area hadn't become overgrown with trees, or even become someone's backyard (unless it's your own backyard).
Seriously, that's very nice model work. It's also the effect that I'll be striving for: i.e., scenes that can be well detailed, yet can sit comfortably in several eras with just a few simple changes here and there.
Flying switch56 In my case, however, several years ago I became intrigued with the concept of trying to model a railroad to a specific era or theme and I found that it's a bit more difficult than I thought, especially with my interest in such divergent eras. But the good thing is, I'm enjoying the challenge. Vic
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I absolutely agree that anyone should operate their own layout for their own pleasure, and anybody who doesn't approve can just walk out the door. For decades I ran whatever equipment I wanted on the same layout and I've never had a qualm with anyone doing the same.
Thanks for your kind replies and interesting ideas.
Richhotrain's idea is very similar to the layout plan I abandoned (I think it's still posted around here somewhere). It was to be doughnut shaped with a "passenger main" circling the perimeter and a hidden staging yard behind a backdrop. I even toyed with the idea of elevating that entire main to further separate it from the rest of the tracks. Unfortunately, since the new plan is a walk-in design I just couldn't make this idea fit anymore.
Then, it was while reading the rest of the posts concerning swapping out structures that I had a EUREKA! moment (that's less than an epiphany but several steps up from a "Hmm...I wonder," kind of thing). Basically, if I tweak the yard design slightly I could not only make it, but the entire railroad serve two purposes.
1. By keeping the yard simply ballasted I can use it and the rest of the layout for running my moderately modern era freight operations. However...
2. By placing a somewhat large removable station that sits above one end of the yard and a couple removable platforms I can run a 1950s all passenger train layout. This would also permit a fair bit of switching opportunities with head-end cars, sleepers, diners, etc.
And as some suggested, by carefully choosing the appropriate buildings (and a neutral backdrop) it would then be simply a matter of moving all or most of the freight equipment to staging (something I'll need to increase in my design).
I'd also like to mention that I'd forgotten all about modern business trains. That would be a fun addition to the freight era.
Thanks everyone. Your input has been a great inspiration to me.
Yep as has been mentioned, business trains.
Santa Fe's business car fleet contained several cars that were former Super Chief cars. These include Regal series sleepers (Regal Lane, Regal Lark, Regal Manor, Regal Hunt, and Regal Spa) and a 600 series diner.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Flying switch56 My operating interest lies with western roads (Santa Fe, Burlington Northern, Union Pacific and the occasional visiting road) between 1980 -2000.
My operating interest lies with western roads (Santa Fe, Burlington Northern, Union Pacific and the occasional visiting road) between 1980 -2000.
Well Amtrak started in 1971, so your time frame wouldn't have to change that much. If you decide to not include steam (or only include the various steam engines that operated in excursion service during that time, like N&W 611, Pennsy 1361, UP 844 etc.) You'd only have to go back to 1965-70 to run diesel powered versions of pre-Amtrak passenger trains. Since you don't mention BNSF, but rather BN and ATSF, you apparently aren't going much beyond 1995 or so, so modelling 1970-95 would be doable.
If you want to shift eras, the time periods are close enough that it wouldn't be that hard to do. I photographed GN "Big Sky Blue" boxcars in service in 1990, so having some cars from the sixties being around in your later timeframe woudn't be that big a problem. Have one period of say 1965 and one of 1995 maybe??
FWIW my "under construction" layout is planned to shift from roughly 1940's to the 1990's.
Vic:
I agree with what has been said. Like Steve says, change buildings, have some with modern or the 50's look.
I remember a story about a lady who was at a convention and she watched trains run on the railroad then returned the next day. She made the comment that the car that was trying to cross the tracks was still in the same position. "That car is never going to cross the tracks." The guy changed the position of the car the next day before she returned.
So, I guess move things around. Besides, since I am president of my railroad I can run what I want at any time. I know that goes against what some folk like in this hobby, but, like some say, "Have fun".
Robert Sylvester, WTRR
Here's what I do, and it may work in this sitiation.
I have two kinds of sessions for running trains.
1. Operating Session. The purpose is to simulate actual operations on a given railroad, at a given place, and at a given time. In this case, the train equipment is restricted to fit with the 3 criteria. If you are running 1070's freight operations, you will have the 1950's passenger trains in storage off the layout, in a staging yard, or somewhere else.
2. Running session. The purpose is to run trains, and anything goes, Run your favorite trains. If your layout allows continuous running, you can run a favorite train indefinately.
Enjoy your model railroad and your favorite trains.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Vic,I never been one to promote "its your/my layout" which IMHO is nothing more then a weak excuse for enjoying the hobby in the manner that pleases the hobbiest..
Here's my thoughts..
Its your hobby enjoy it in the manner that pleases you.
If you have no quams about running a Super C along side of Amtraks Super C enjoy and have fun with what you allow.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
One word "Excursion" trains. That's what I do. I have a modern layout, but most of the passenger trains I have (or want), are the 1950's era.
Same thing for steam. Museum excursion trains are my excuse anyways.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Exactly what Steve said. If you're like msot of us, you have far too much equipment to have it ont eh tracks all at the same time anyway. So when the mood strikes, populate the rails with teh turn of the century stuff. Or on a different day, the modern Amtrack equipment. Or the 50's era stuff. That way you cna have your cake and eat it too (and have an excuse to buy more locos and cars). Nothing will be out of place, because you won't be running a 1920's heavyweight train alongside mdoern Amfleet stuff, yet you can have all those trains that you enjoy.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.