BLI Outlet Direct // Refurbs/ seconds What do you think?

[Anonymous]

Introducing... Broadway Outlet Direct. Get BLI refurbs/seconds at dramatic discounts.

On the BLI WEB page, they are advertising for sale refurbs and seconds with no warranty.

I looked at the prices and I really don't think it is worth the saving to be stuck with something that might not run correctly and have no warranty.

What do you think about this offer from BLI?

Broadway Outlet Direct (BOD) offers refurbished Broadway Limited Imports products at significant discounts. Products sold through BOD may be customer returns, have packaging damage, or are factory refurbished units / factory seconds. BOD products carry no warranty of any kind, are sold AS-IS and are non-returnable. Items that are in need of future service can be serviced by BLI at the standard repair rates.

This following statement was added to the BLI page after I wrote the initial Page on this story.

***A 5 day product evaluation period is provided on all BOD purchases (5-day period calculated from date of receipt of product). Products that do not operate properly may be returned within this period only. Return shipping costs are the responsibility of the purchaser. ***

[Anonymous]

I personally would stay away from seconds. However, for someone who otherwise could not afford BLI it might make sense.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have any idea how the "seconds" run, I mean do they run ok or not so ok?

I purchased some used locos from a forum member and they turned out to be a pig in a polk. Saving money would be nice but not if they didn't run well. From my recent "lemon" experience I am kinda gun shy. [:(] [V]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: ... Products sold through BOD may be customer returns, have packaging damage, or are factory refurbished units / factory seconds. BOD products carry no warranty of any kind, are sold AS-IS and are non-returnable. Items that are in need of future service can be serviced by BLI at the standard repair rates.

"May be" is a problem...there's a big difference between those four categories:
-customer return,
-packaging damage,
-factory refurbish,
-factory second.
Your risk factor is very high.
IMHO.....No warranty of any kind means you should be paying accordingly, if you wi***o take a chance....maybe 30% of list price....???

Years ago, we used to buy Black & Decker appliances & power tools at a B & D "direct outlet ", which claimed the same "maybe" categories as above... BUT ...the stuff all had warranties of the same duration as their NEW product warranties. The prices were 25% to 50% off new list prices, and were often for discontinued models. Good deals, and the warranties were real...I needed to use one once, on an 18v cordless drill after nearly two years of use.....no problem...the unit was replaced with their newest model.[:)]
regards
Mike

[fmilhaupt]

Until QSI (BLI's sound decoder supplier) resolves the inrush current overload problem with their sound decoders while running under DCC, I don't plan to purchase any BLI or other QSI-equipped motive power, no matter how much it's discounted. It's just too much trouble.

QSI is said to be making an effort to address this, however, so there's hope. In the mean time, I'll sit it out.

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by robmik

QUOTE: ... Products sold through BOD may be customer returns, have packaging damage, or are factory refurbished units / factory seconds. BOD products carry no warranty of any kind, are sold AS-IS and are non-returnable. Items that are in need of future service can be serviced by BLI at the standard repair rates.

"May be" is a problem...there's a big difference between those four categories:
-customer return,
-packaging damage,
-factory refurbish,
-factory second.
Your risk factor is very high.
IMHO.....No warranty of any kind means you should be paying accordingly, if you wi***o take a chance....maybe 30% of list price....???

Years ago, we used to buy Black & Decker appliances & power tools at a B & D "direct outlet ", which claimed the same "maybe" categories as above... BUT ...the stuff all had warranties of the same duration as their NEW product warranties. The prices were 25% to 50% off new list prices, and were often for discontinued models. Good deals, and the warranties were real...I needed to use one once, on an 18v cordless drill after nearly two years of use.....no problem...the unit was replaced with their newest model.[:)]
regards
Mike

Exactly!

If these units came with a good warranty I would say "go for it" but if no warranty is provided give it a wide berth. I won't dea with anyone which won't back their work as I've burned before.

Regards

[cacole]

I'd be extremely leery of this offer unless I needed an extra to cannibalize for spare parts for some reason.

[orsonroy]

It depends on what's wrong with the engines. I've got two of the BLI USRA heavy mikes, and they're engineered like any traditional steam model. If the problem is with the "brain", it's no big deal to rewire the engine for conventional DC control without the sound.

From what I've been hearing, most BLI engines suffer from different engineering issues, most of which can be overcome with only basic modeling skills. The 4-4-4-4 had a weak retention pin for one set of drivers, which caused them to fall apart. Easily fixed. Many of the E units came with bad or incorrect paint jobs. Again, easily fixed. And "factory seconds" doesn't mean the engine is a POS. If the finish is bad, the engines will not go up for sale. Likewise, if the packaging is REALLY messed up, the manufacturer won't sell it. This is the way things work in retail. BLI is just trying to sell off some of it's faulty merchandise (ever heard of an outlet mall?)

[simon1966]

100% of the BLI locos I have purchased have had to go back for warranty repair. My guess is that they have been burned so badly with warranty claims that they can not afford to cover these already known lemons. I will be staying well away from these as well as new ones with a warranty.

[Anonymous]

IMHO They are not offering enough of a discount to take the risk: Example: The cab Forward at $300 is close to dealer cost on the loco and it has no warranty??? I don't see how they are giving up much here....

Guy

[Anonymous]

That offering will suck in a few suckers

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy
If the problem is with the "brain", it's no big deal to rewire the engine for conventional DC control without the sound.

That is exactly what I think. For that price, I can do without the sound. In fact that was my original plan when I ordered my first BLI locomotive.


With this outlet thing, I more worried about mechmanical issues. Like if I got an A class from them and the darn valve gear falls apart. Or the motor is ready to burn out. I wouldn't want to end up spending as much for an outlet engine + repair cost as I would a brand new one + warranty.

[Don Gibson]

I think BAD DEAL:

. BLI get's it's regular (Dealer) price without providing any Dealer services.

ANY 'Factory Refurbished' product requires a warranty - regardless - and any purchase of "As is" needs customer visual appraisal, and better price.

In this case neither is available. Bad deal!

[RMax1]

Looks good but i would hate to be stuck with a flying piece of junk. The NO warranty part is really bad. I don't think they would sell you a bad product because they want you to buy a new one but you never know.

RMax

[Anonymous]

So far I haven't seen anyone who is interested in steping up to the plate and buying one of these. It will be interesting to see if BLI sweetens it deal.

[Anonymous]

My take on seconds:

Some of the stuff is just bad packaging, some of it may be bad finish. Others may be bad mechanicals. Unless I can lay hands on it prior to purchase and rule out one or more, I won't touch it.

FWIW, I've bought a gas string trimmer and cordless blower as seconds. No problems with either. I've done the outlet mall thing. But buying seconds sight unseen? That's asking for this: [banghead]

[mdtell]

The BLI website now indicates a 5 day allowed return for Outlet Direct items that do not operate properly. So it looks like they at least think the item works well enough. However, they do not indicate that the return policy covers unsatisfactory appearance items. My experience with BLI has been excellent. I have 6 of their engines and all are excellent. Only 2 required chip replacement to correct the number of chuffs per wheel revolution and that was easily accomplished without having to return the engines to BLI.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

QUOTE: Originally posted by robmik

QUOTE: ... Products sold through BOD may be customer returns, have packaging damage, or are factory refurbished units / factory seconds. BOD products carry no warranty of any kind, are sold AS-IS and are non-returnable. Items that are in need of future service can be serviced by BLI at the standard repair rates.

"May be" is a problem...there's a big difference between those four categories:
-customer return,
-packaging damage,
-factory refurbish,
-factory second.
Your risk factor is very high.
IMHO.....No warranty of any kind means you should be paying accordingly, if you wi***o take a chance....maybe 30% of list price....???

Years ago, we used to buy Black & Decker appliances & power tools at a B & D "direct outlet ", which claimed the same "maybe" categories as above... BUT ...the stuff all had warranties of the same duration as their NEW product warranties. The prices were 25% to 50% off new list prices, and were often for discontinued models. Good deals, and the warranties were real...I needed to use one once, on an 18v cordless drill after nearly two years of use.....no problem...the unit was replaced with their newest model.[:)]
regards
Mike

Exactly!

If these units came with a good warranty I would say "go for it" but if no warranty is provided give it a wide berth. I won't dea with anyone which won't back their work as I've burned before.

Regards

I agree 100%

[Anonymous]

I noticed that BLI added this to their outlet store web page:

"***A 5 day product evaluation period is provided on all BOD purchases (5-day period calculated from date of receipt of product). Products that do not operate properly may be returned within this period only. Return shipping costs are the responsibility of the purchaser. ***"

[simon1966]

Reading some of the other threads on steam locomotive manufacturers and the never ending thread on the Digitrax yahoo groups list about the QSI power surge problem, it is clear that the BLI luster is fading fast. Dealers are reporting failure rates in the 35% range. My own experience has been very dissapointing. BLI have stired up the modelling world with the introduction of the sound equipped DCC locomotive, but it seems that many of us that have tried them are somewhat unhappy with the resulting product. I don't know if they are rushing too much to market to try and beat out the other sound equipped entrants coming on stream later this year, but they are damaging what was a huge surge of popular support and interest from the modelling community.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JimdeBree

I noticed that BLI added this to their outlet store web page:

"***A 5 day product evaluation period is provided on all BOD purchases (5-day period calculated from date of receipt of product). Products that do not operate properly may be returned within this period only. Return shipping costs are the responsibility of the purchaser. ***"

But it takes more than 5 days to reach the west coast. How do they handle that? Lets say I purchase one, then it takes 8 days to get to me. My friggin' product evaluation period is crushed.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

QUOTE: Originally posted by JimdeBree

I noticed that BLI added this to their outlet store web page:

"***A 5 day product evaluation period is provided on all BOD purchases (5-day period calculated from date of receipt of product). Products that do not operate properly may be returned within this period only. Return shipping costs are the responsibility of the purchaser. ***"

But it takes more than 5 days to reach the west coast. How do they handle that? Lets say I purchase one, then it takes 8 days to get to me. My friggin' product evaluation period is crushed.

You didn't read carefully enough. It says 5-day period calculated from date of receipt of product. Evidently it's sent with delivery or signature confirmation and a date, which is then used to calculate the evaluation period. My guess is that it must be postmarked for return no later than the 6th day after receipt.

[Anonymous]

Simon-- I have three BLI locomotives and have not experienced any problems personally. Each loco has about 10 hours of running time. But if there is a 35% failure rate as you mention, BLI has some quality control issues that you rightfully point out will do them in. I agree that BLI has rushed a lot of products to market. As I noted on the Atlas forum several months ago, the SP E units had light showing through the front of the shell. While this is easily fixed by either painting the inside of the shell or by adding some electrical tape inside the shell, when you pay $200+ for a diesel locomotive, you shouldn't have to do that. The only reason why I mention this is because it is further evidence of the ru***o market business plan that BLI is executing. If you compare BLI to Trix, another high end manufacturer, Trix has been much more deliberate in bringing new models to market.

[simon1966]

I have 2 BLI's. One was fixed via replacement unit months later. The other was defective and I decided to troubleshoot and fix the unit myself. I was a short in the tender. No biggie, but brand new $200 loco's should not require this. A real shame as I really like the product when it is working correctly. I am tempted to get one of the E units, but am holding off for the time being.

[Anonymous]

Could even back-fire for those wanting to resell their locos on Ebay. Will you be buying one that was that was originally sold as new or refurb?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

100% of the BLI locos I have purchased have had to go back for warranty repair. My guess is that they have been burned so badly with warranty claims that they can not afford to cover these already known lemons. I will be staying well away from these as well as new ones with a warranty.

simon1966...100% of the BLI products I have purchased have been fine (with the exception of having a headlight LED replaced, which they did via mail). Broadway has done a good job with thier customer service, and personally I like the product they produce.

It took BLI to get factory sound equiped locos on the market, and now everyone else is trying to catch up. I don't understand why there is such a negative vibe for BLI. Other threads are complaining that BLI is producing the RSD-15 and the K-4. Who cares!? You want another RSD-15...go find one. Yeah Pennsy fans have a lot of models available to them. No one is complaining about Bowser... You don't like what on the market, start your own company...

BLI is simply trying to clear inventory of models that had some kind of problem...simple as that. Yes the prices seemed a little high for the risk, I'd bet we see that drop to a more reasonable level...

My .02

[Anonymous]

wes--I agree- I like the BLI products myself. As I mentioned I have three of them. They seem to have an ambitious business plan and are getting an incredible numbewr of new products to market in a very short period of time. From the gist of the threads, the tradeoff MIGHT be soe quality control issues. For the record, I personally have not experienced any to date.

[darth9x9]

This is going to be very bad for BLI - how long do you think it will take an unscrupulous dealer to buy the refurbs and sell them as new??? Everyone will suffer as a consequence. This is definitely a bad move for the industry.

[Anonymous]

Do you think BLI is reading this thread?

[darth9x9]

Well let's certainly hope so!!!