There really should not be this urge to make everyone do things the same way you do...it'd be incredibly boring if that happened.
My layout I build to mine own expectations..which is high to begin with..that is what I strive FOR. Heaven forfend someone do the exact same dang thing if they do not feel like it...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
All on the same layout I have Erie Lackawanna passenger trains, Atlantic Coast line freight, Amtrak Passenger, Delaware and Hudson Freight, PRR steam, NYC subway, Thomas the Tank Engine, and Hogwart's Express.
I am probably not the best person to discuss prototypical perfection.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
While I mostly follow a particular railroad, I am most interested in getting a layout up and running. To that end I will use as much RTR as possible to become operational. For each building activity, I always do the best job that I can on each project in a reasonable time frame - always keeping in mind the overall goal. While I am interested in being reasonably accurate to the prototype, I also include stuff that I like even if not exactly correct, so you'll see billboard reefers on my 50's layout. I also have some phantasy road names from the NMRA's Heritage and Living Legends series. Once I'm operational I'll work on the kits I have accumulated over the years, scenery, and do some scratch building.
While some people love a competitive hobby, I do not. My modeling pleases me. Which is not to say I'm stagnant, I always look to improve my skills. But I'm not really interested in competing with others or going through a certification program.
I have found the happy middle ground that pleases me. My layout will be my interpretation of the Maryland and Pennsylvania Railroad - yours may differ. But in the end it doesn't matter if you're having fun and not hurting others.
Enjoy
Paul
Frankly, I'm surprised Model Railroading hasn't (de)evolved into a contact sport...
John
Put up your dukes....
Anyone who sees a "perfect" model railroad and throws their hands up in despair should quit the hobby at once. This hobby is not meant for you. You will only become frustrated by your insecurities. Leave this hobby now and go find something else that can satisfy you or you will become bitter and miserable.
Anyone who sees a "perfect" model railroad and says, "That's what I want to do! How can I learn to do that?" is someone who will make this a life-long hobby. This is a hobby where striving for "perfection" leads to a life-long hobby goal of trying your best and improving your skills. This chase for "perfection" is itself part of the "fun" of the hobby, and figuring out a solution or finding that nugget of information or completing that hard-to-build model can lead to a satisfied feeling that can last for years...which makes for a happy hobbiest.
Being intimidated by quality work is a mark against the observer, not against the work.
Paul A. Cutler III
Paul3 Being intimidated by quality work is a mark against the observer, not against the work.
Great response.
Rob Spangler
jwhitten Frankly, I'm surprised Model Railroading hasn't (de)evolved into a contact sport... John
You obviously have not been to a large crowded train show.
I once argued with a person over what material MY modules that I built were made from. This went on for about 20 minutes. He finally plunked an elbow onto one of them and dented the foam real deep. I then thanked him for wrecking it and suggested he have a few more beers before attending the next time. The crater with the pink showing through proved it was foam and not plywood. The next show had a crashed HO scale (?) flying saucer stuck into the crater. That's as prototypical as I wanted to get.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I wonder if the OP was mistreated somewhere in his hobby ventures to say such a statement. No where in any magazine article, NMRA bulletin, or web site is there a rule etched in stone concerning what way to model is best. You strive to do the best you can. If you're happy with your results, that's as far as it goes. If you're not, you try harder the next project. There are some top notch modelers here, Dr.Wayne and Jon Grant are two examples, I never see them posting about perfection,the costs, the hobbies dying. Maybe they just know how to be great modelers and model........mh
Well.... (a deep subject!), since the OP hasn't been back, I would guess the post was just to get as much going as possible for our (and his) entertainment....
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
TA462 The rest of you that think "GOOD ENOUGH" really is good enough then come on, get off your lazy rearends and improve your skills.
The rest of you that think "GOOD ENOUGH" really is good enough then come on, get off your lazy rearends and improve your skills.
Wonder if the V&O was "good enough" since that was the philosophy used to build it?
Otherwise this whole post perfectly defines the issue -- basically you've stated that anyone who doesn't follow the same philosophy as you is "lazy" and therefore wrong. Everyone is in a hobby for different goals and not neccessarily to compete to outdo everyone else. If someone meets their goals, why is that wrong?
jmbjmb TA462: The rest of you that think "GOOD ENOUGH" really is good enough then come on, get off your lazy rearends and improve your skills. Wonder if the V&O was "good enough" since that was the philosophy used to build it? Otherwise this whole post perfectly defines the issue -- basically you've stated that anyone who doesn't follow the same philosophy as you is "lazy" and therefore wrong. Everyone is in a hobby for different goals and not neccessarily to compete to outdo everyone else. If someone meets their goals, why is that wrong?
TA462: The rest of you that think "GOOD ENOUGH" really is good enough then come on, get off your lazy rearends and improve your skills.
He had a different level of 'good enough' than your level. Simples. To me, good enough is that which I aspire to, on MY layout. Different means only that ...different. No hieracrhy of valuation here.
What YOU do with your layout is YOUR business ..not mine. Nobody is saying here that you have to achieve greater goals if you do not desire to.
I have a client here who is a child with CP..he always attempts--with some success I might add --to do his best with his layout, with the help of a few of us around here. If you have issues with something we are here to help you figure the thing out...no issues from my end...
"WHAT DO YOU WANT?"
"Well, I was told outside that..."
"Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!"
"What?"
"Shut your festering gob, you twit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!"
"Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!"
"OH! Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse."
"Oh, I see, well, that explains it."
"Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor."
"Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry."
"Not at all."
"Thank You."
(mutters under breath) "Stupid git!!"
... and now for something completely different...
davidmbedard There is a huge difference between "perfection" and striving to do the best you can. Looking at anyone who strives to do the best they can in a negative light is a disservice to this hobby and to your character. If we all were happy with the status-quo, then we would still be living with X2f couplers, cd100 brass rail and truck mounted couplers on everything. Personally, I grow every day in this hobby, and I am a far cry from my first train set. My advice is to grow in this hobby, enjoy the challenges, learn from your failures and come out with the satisfaction that you had fun in learning something. David B
There is a huge difference between "perfection" and striving to do the best you can. Looking at anyone who strives to do the best they can in a negative light is a disservice to this hobby and to your character. If we all were happy with the status-quo, then we would still be living with X2f couplers, cd100 brass rail and truck mounted couplers on everything.
Personally, I grow every day in this hobby, and I am a far cry from my first train set.
My advice is to grow in this hobby, enjoy the challenges, learn from your failures and come out with the satisfaction that you had fun in learning something.
David B
David, as always, you said it better that I ever could.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
jwhitten "WHAT DO YOU WANT?" "Well, I was told outside that..." "Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!" "What?" "Shut your festering gob, you twit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!" "Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!" "OH! Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse." "Oh, I see, well, that explains it." "Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor." "Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry." "Not at all." "Thank You." (mutters under breath) "Stupid git!!" ... and now for something completely different... John
Continuing on......
(Walk down the corridor) (Knock) Come in. Ah, Is this the right room for an argument? I told you once. No you haven't. Yes I have.When?Just now.No you didn't.Yes I did. You didn'tI did!You didn't! I'm telling you I did!You did not!! Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? Oh, just the five minutes. Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did.You most certainly did not. Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you. No you did not. Yes I did. No you didn't. Yes I did. No you didn't.Yes I did. No you didn't. Yes I did.You didn't.Did.Oh look, this isn't an argument. Yes it is. No it isn't. It's just contradiction. No it it isn't. It is!It is not.ook, you just contradicted me. I did not.Oh you did!!No, no, no.You did just then. Nonsense!.........<continues for a few minutes more>
That and the above quote pretty much sum up this thread.
Breaks into "Lumberjack" song with altered lyrics
I build model trains and I'm OK,
I dream all night and I plan all day
He builds model trains and he's OK
He dreams all night and plans all day.
I handlay track, I weather cars,
I go to the lavat'ry
On Wednesday I go shopping
For components of DCC......
--------------------------------------------------
The world would be a darker place without Monty Python.
Andre
A yes! It has come down this, has it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
Maybe this is a fitting end to this thread as it seems to be a dead sketch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Lq771TVm4&feature=related
"Oh I'm a modeler and I'm OK........."
In fact this whole thread is just plain silly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s
73
It might be more useful to put something of a tune to it...http://lab.andre-michelle.com/tonematrix
Model railroading is about making perfection?
Perfection!
Even the trash and garbage is perfect!
Its the imperfections that make things perfect
Have fun with your trains
I have always felt that I should do my personal best when it comes to any project. But, I also know that there comes a time when you get so involved with a project that it doesn't become fun anymore.
For instance, I just super detailed one of my Athearn P42s and decided not include the HEP cables on the ends. The reason, they were hard to drill in and I was happy with the end result of the undercarriage being complete. I also did not add MU hose, but may go back and finish those.
I am also super-detailing an Athearn GP 38-2. It won't have all of the detail parts as the prototype, but it will have DCC and sound and LED lighting. My goal is to make it run and sound prototypical.
Whenever I visit someone's layout or see their work (especially on these forums) I appreciate their hard work and am extremely grateful they have taken the time to show what they have done and most people have personally given me hints to accomplish my personal endeavors.
And for that, I am eternally grateful.
Will
Paul3 Anyone who sees a "perfect" model railroad and throws their hands up in despair should quit the hobby at once. This hobby is not meant for you. You will only become frustrated by your insecurities. Leave this hobby now and go find something else that can satisfy you or you will become bitter and miserable. Anyone who sees a "perfect" model railroad and says, "That's what I want to do! How can I learn to do that?" is someone who will make this a life-long hobby. This is a hobby where striving for "perfection" leads to a life-long hobby goal of trying your best and improving your skills. This chase for "perfection" is itself part of the "fun" of the hobby, and figuring out a solution or finding that nugget of information or completing that hard-to-build model can lead to a satisfied feeling that can last for years...which makes for a happy hobbiest. Being intimidated by quality work is a mark against the observer, not against the work. Paul A. Cutler III
Paul,I been in this hobby way to long to fall into that trap again like I did when I was young.
This isn't a competitive hobby as many try to make it nor is it required you need museum quality models and layout..
The best advice is do your best within your modeling skills and accept you need to please no one except yourself..Do that and you will enjoy this hobby throughout your life time.
Anything other then that can lead you down the path of quiting because you're never please.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
TA462 There are two types of people in this world. People that strive to be the best in what ever they do and people that are to LAZY to try to improve. The rest of you that think "GOOD ENOUGH" really is good enough then come on, get off your lazy rearends and improve your skills. EVERYONE can improve, not just you lazy guys.
Lazy? When I was into painting and detailing I spent long hours trying to get my locomotives to look the way I wanted them to. The paint jobs may not be flawless, but I am satisfied with the results.
vsmith Model railroading is about making perfection? Perfection!
Awesome !
Here is a photo of my perfect track laying in S scale. Notice the prototypical rail ties. Perfect !
Alton Junction
It really is interesting seeing all these reactions to people who seem to have a need to go for a more realistic layout.
I don't get..oh oh, I just said something here that may ignite some fires here...the attitude that decries someone having more of a predilection for this realism in the first place...what is it about? Are we really 'threatened' by their existence here? How can someone jump on someone else simply because they have skills that were built up over time and they don't?
That is why we have this forum...so that we who may not have all those skills can learn from each other how such and such is done. I like seeing how people get things to look more realistic. I like how these people can get things to that extra level...but it seems some just are not into that learning curve...
I, myself, am not in the camp that likes calling others lazy simply because of their lack of interest in what others are doing, or can do....it would be nice if others would consider doing the same in return, and not refer to those who are more to the prototypical side as ....rivet counters.
We do have choices in how we react to these challenges..mine is with learning...
blownout cylinder it would be nice if others would consider doing the same in return, and not refer to those who are more to the prototypical side as ....rivet counters.
it would be nice if others would consider doing the same in return, and not refer to those who are more to the prototypical side as ....rivet counters.
Yeah and besides, rivet-counting is hard work... one thousand three hundred forty two.... one thousand three hundred forty three... one thou-- ARRRGGH! Now see what you made me do!
(Sigh)
One... two... three...
jwhitten blownout cylinder: it would be nice if others would consider doing the same in return, and not refer to those who are more to the prototypical side as ....rivet counters. Yeah and besides, rivet-counting is hard work... one thousand three hundred forty two.... one thousand three hundred forty three... one thou-- ARRRGGH! Now see what you made me do! (Sigh) One... two... three... John
blownout cylinder: it would be nice if others would consider doing the same in return, and not refer to those who are more to the prototypical side as ....rivet counters.
Every time I try to count rivets I lose count or fall asleep..
I'm just in it for the fun.
I'm in it only for the money & hot babes.
I actually went through a stage wherein I thought that I should be able to model the approach to Toronto's Union Station. The whole 30 mile stretch into and out of that station....yeah right!!! ...compression anyone? That was when I realized that I, only having X space could only place a certain amount of said idea into that space.
Then there was the idea of an elevator....anyone ever notice how many different elevators existed in the 1970's-1990's? And how they changed over time? Even a 15 year period was a bit of a jog....
So, I came to realize that to be a prototype/lancer I had to become a bit more realistic with what I could do with the space I had
Brakie,We both agree that one should always try to please yourself in this hobby. Other than that, you lost me. At no time did I state that this is a competitive hobby (altough there are some of us who enjoy entering modeling contests...not me, but there's many out there that do), nor did I state that musuem-quality models and/or layout are somehow required. I have no idea where you got that impression from my above posting.
I did say that people who are intimidated by great model railroads should quit now. I also said that those who are inspired by great model railroads tend to make this a lifetime hobby. Where's the "trap"? If the trap is that some are never satisfied and never feel happy because they can't make a "perfect" model, then I'll add that these people should quit now, too. This is a hobby, it's supposed to be for our own entertainment. If you are never happy with it, why be a part of it?
But to not challenge yourself to do better by reaching beyond one's skill set? That's when I disagree. You said, "...do your best within your modeling skills..." To me, that says that we shouldn't try to increase our modeling skills at all. I think that one should occasionally reach beyond one's skills and try new ideas, new techniques, etc. How else does one learn?