There was an accident involving the California Zephyr and a truck yesterday.
Amtrak crash
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Wow, the truck crashed into the side of the train, not the more usualy train slammign into a truck already across the tracks.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name.
Springfield PA
rrinker Wow, the truck crashed into the side of the train, not the more usualy train slammign into a truck already across the tracks. --Randy
Interestingly, the local news (Las Vegas Channel 3) headlined it as, "Train hits truck."
(Broadside???)
Does anyone wonder why I don't have much respect for the media?
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Any resemblence between local news and real journalism is purely accidental. These idiots are clueless. Neilsen ratings is the name of the game.
Hamltnblue Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name.
Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
IBTL...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
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What a horrible accident. I've traveled on that train many times and have met some wonderful Amtrak employees, it is just hard to imagine something like this can happen until it does.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
This was a horrible accident, and I feel very sorry for the people on the train who were killed or injured and their families.
The truck driver, not so much.
It is interesting how, as Chuck pointed out, to read the headline, it looks like the train hit the truck. Even in that case though, it likely wouldn't be the train crew's fault.
This is a direct result of the American love affair with the motor vehicle, and how quick we are to grant licenses to marginally competent drivers, and how difficult it is to take them away, in spite of overwhelming evidence that the individual shouldn't be driving.
An employee of mine had his cousins killed by a drunk driver in West Virginia. This driver had been convicted of DUI 3 times in WV, lost his license (w/o doing jail time), went to Pennsylvania, got an new license and continued driving. At the time of the accident, he had two DUI's pending against his PA license. One egregious case perhaps, but it shouldn't be that easy.
Would one of our European friends like to weigh in about their licensing systems?
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
jasperofzeal Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name. Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself.
Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name.
I do not think Hamltnblue was being racist, there have been rumors that trains may be attacked in retaliation to Osama Bin Laden's death, or other reasons. And after 9/11 people tend to take these threats seriosly.
Truck.
If the regulations on the truckign industry with regards to safety were only half as stringent as those on the railroad industry....
Truck jasperofzeal: Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name. Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself. I do not think Hamltnblue was being racist, there have been rumors that trains may be attacked in retaliation to Osama Bin Laden's death, or other reasons. And after 9/11 people tend to take these threats seriosly. Truck.
jasperofzeal: Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name. Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself.
Agreed, nowhere do I read any "racism" in that post, and there are rumors that have been reported by our government found on OBL's hard drives.
I know exactly what Hamltnblue meant by that post. Stop being hypersensitive, it makes you look foolish.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
CTValleyRR This was a horrible accident, and I feel very sorry for the people on the train who were killed or injured and their families. The truck driver, not so much. It is interesting how, as Chuck pointed out, to read the headline, it looks like the train hit the truck. Even in that case though, it likely wouldn't be the train crew's fault. This is a direct result of the American love affair with the motor vehicle, and how quick we are to grant licenses to marginally competent drivers, and how difficult it is to take them away, in spite of overwhelming evidence that the individual shouldn't be driving. An employee of mine had his cousins killed by a drunk driver in West Virginia. This driver had been convicted of DUI 3 times in WV, lost his license (w/o doing jail time), went to Pennsylvania, got an new license and continued driving. At the time of the accident, he had two DUI's pending against his PA license. One egregious case perhaps, but it shouldn't be that easy. Would one of our European friends like to weigh in about their licensing systems?
We should give judges the power to permanently revoke a persons right to drive, at least in that State, removing such power from hearing examiners at the motor vehicle administration. And we should ask other States to honor such rulings.
But in my opinion, we need not model anything we do after what goes on in Europe or anywhere else in the world.
It is politically correct to blame the train, or, if a small car and an SUV crash, blame the SUV, or if a car and big truck crash, to blame the truck. The bigger vehicle is always at fault - didn't you know that?
It is also politically correct to not blame drivers who kill themselves in one car crashes, but rather to build roadside memorials to them.
Lot of things are upside down in this culture - and Chuck is right about the media.
Sheldon
An update I saw (time stamped 16 minutes ago) says they did find tire skid marks from the truck.
Killed on the train was Amtrak Conductor Laurette Lee. According to what I've heard, she'll be sorely missed. She was an older woman who started her career as a clerk but wanted to be a conductor. She really liked her job but really ran a tight ship from what I understand. She handled herself well and did a great job.
I suspect the trucker was trying to outrun the train and then when he figured out he goofed, hit the brakes and swerved but it was too late. Or perhaps he was distracted with a cell phone? What a waste.
Highway 95 in Nevada--the highway on which the accident occurred--is one of the loneliest highways I've ever driven. And unfortunately, it's just flat, flat, FLAT desert for just about all of it's north-south route through Nevada. It's a very 'hypnotic' highway, and it's very easy to end up driving a LOT faster than you think you are (I ended up driving about 109mph in a '57 T-bird heading south on that highway back in the 'sixties before I realized it). What towns are on the highway are small and miles apart, separated by miles and miles of miles and miles. Flat and desolate.
I'm not trying to defend the truck driver, understand--but in retrospect I can see why he might have been traveling way above the speed limit when he came upon that very isolated railroad crossing in the middle of the desert on a very level, almost unending straight highway. Yes, there are skid marks at the crossing, there are photos of it.
I agree with those of you wondering about what the media is thinking--even on our local station, which is only about 150 miles from the scene of the accident, the newscaster was going on about the 'train hitting the truck'. If he'd bothered to turn around and look at the screen behind him and see the two burned out passenger cars--one of them with the remnants of the truck cab imbedded in the side of the car--, he'd realize just how silly that phrase actually both sounded and looked.
I don't know if the track has been cleared yet in the vicinity of the crash, but earlier today in the UP Roseville yards, there were a few trains stacked up waiting to head over Donner. I would imagine that UP has been sending most of the Donner-Sparks traffic over their alternate Feather River Canyon route.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Geared Steam Truck: jasperofzeal: Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name. Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself. I do not think Hamltnblue was being racist, there have been rumors that trains may be attacked in retaliation to Osama Bin Laden's death, or other reasons. And after 9/11 people tend to take these threats seriosly. Truck. Agreed, nowhere do I read any "racism" in that post, and there are rumors that have been reported by our government found on OBL's hard drives. I know exactly what Hamltnblue meant by that post. Stop being hypersensitive, it makes you look foolish.
Truck: jasperofzeal: Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name. Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself. I do not think Hamltnblue was being racist, there have been rumors that trains may be attacked in retaliation to Osama Bin Laden's death, or other reasons. And after 9/11 people tend to take these threats seriosly. Truck.
Ok, I get it. Hamltnblue is your friend and you will support his comment regardless of what he meant. I believe he was being racist, what other reason would make him type such a statement? If he was expressing concern about the "threats" that ensued after OBL's death or 9/11 then Hamltnblue should have expressed his thought with more clarity. Perhaps saying something to the effect of hoping this incident wasn't related to any terrorist threats or anything other than what he wrote. Instead he chose not to express any other details to his thought and made a genealistic expression that to me sounds like racism. If you think I'm a fool for being hypersensitive then you're the bigger fool for believing what you see in the news and not knowing what racism is.
Texas Zepher An update I saw (time stamped 16 minutes ago) says they did find tire skid marks from the truck.
So the guy was either asleep or initially tried to beat the train then realized he wasn't goign to make it and became permanently aquainted with the laws of physics when he found out a multi-ton truck does not stop instantly no matter how many wheels it has and how hard you stomp the brake pedal. However it shakes out, this guy should NOT have been behind the wheel, and now innocent people are paying with their lives for this moron.
jasperofzeal Geared Steam: Truck: jasperofzeal: Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name. Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself. I do not think Hamltnblue was being racist, there have been rumors that trains may be attacked in retaliation to Osama Bin Laden's death, or other reasons. And after 9/11 people tend to take these threats seriosly. Truck. Agreed, nowhere do I read any "racism" in that post, and there are rumors that have been reported by our government found on OBL's hard drives. I know exactly what Hamltnblue meant by that post. Stop being hypersensitive, it makes you look foolish. Ok, I get it. Hamltnblue is your friend and you will support his comment regardless of what he meant. I believe he was being racist, what other reason would make him type such a statement? If he was expressing concern about the "threats" that ensued after OBL's death or 9/11 then Hamltnblue should have expressed his thought with more clarity. Perhaps saying something to the effect of hoping this incident wasn't related to any terrorist threats or anything other than what he wrote. Instead he chose not to express any other details to his thought and made a genealistic expression that to me sounds like racism. If you think I'm a fool for being hypersensitive then you're the bigger fool for believing what you see in the news and not knowing what racism is.
Geared Steam: Truck: jasperofzeal: Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name. Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself. I do not think Hamltnblue was being racist, there have been rumors that trains may be attacked in retaliation to Osama Bin Laden's death, or other reasons. And after 9/11 people tend to take these threats seriosly. Truck. Agreed, nowhere do I read any "racism" in that post, and there are rumors that have been reported by our government found on OBL's hard drives. I know exactly what Hamltnblue meant by that post. Stop being hypersensitive, it makes you look foolish.
Acually, the way I read Hamltnblue"s post, was that it was in hope that it wasn,t a terrorist act. We are just now starting to bring our troops home from our last major attack from terrorists. It would be heart broke if they had to turn around and go back.
The back and forth between Truck and Jasper might not have occurred here if one assumes innocence before being proven guilty of racism....let us try to imagine that slip ups can occur too please....
What I would like to know is which car did the truck hit. Was is the first or second or third car of the train? In other words, how many cars had already cleared the crossing?
As for the truck driver (who was killed in the accident), his name has not been released but whatever his name, whatever his ethnicity, it is going to be an interesting investigation as to what caused the truck driver to plow into a train that had already reached the crossing.
Rich
P.S. As a sidenote, when I clicked on the CBS video, it was preceded by a 28 second commercial which gave me time to go get a second cup of coffee. It is annoying enough to have news videos preceded by 9 or 10 second commercials, but 28 seconds??? I look forward (not) to the day when a one minute video is preceded by a 10 minute commercial, just like on TV - - - LOL.
Alton Junction
rrinker Texas Zepher: An update I saw (time stamped 16 minutes ago) says they did find tire skid marks from the truck. So the guy was either asleep or initially tried to beat the train then realized he wasn't goign to make it and became permanently aquainted with the laws of physics when he found out a multi-ton truck does not stop instantly no matter how many wheels it has and how hard you stomp the brake pedal. However it shakes out, this guy should NOT have been behind the wheel, and now innocent people are paying with their lives for this moron. --Randy
Texas Zepher: An update I saw (time stamped 16 minutes ago) says they did find tire skid marks from the truck.
Very astute observation, Randy. Reminds me of the people who think that because they have 4-wheel drive, they can still drive 60-70 mph on icy roads. I can't tell you how many times people have shot past me on icy roads, only to find them stuck in the middle of the snowbank a mile or so down the road. It's so sad that the acts of one person can affect many lives.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
Truck jasperofzeal: Geared Steam: Truck: jasperofzeal: Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name. Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself. I do not think Hamltnblue was being racist, there have been rumors that trains may be attacked in retaliation to Osama Bin Laden's death, or other reasons. And after 9/11 people tend to take these threats seriosly. Truck. Agreed, nowhere do I read any "racism" in that post, and there are rumors that have been reported by our government found on OBL's hard drives. I know exactly what Hamltnblue meant by that post. Stop being hypersensitive, it makes you look foolish. Ok, I get it. Hamltnblue is your friend and you will support his comment regardless of what he meant. I believe he was being racist, what other reason would make him type such a statement? If he was expressing concern about the "threats" that ensued after OBL's death or 9/11 then Hamltnblue should have expressed his thought with more clarity. Perhaps saying something to the effect of hoping this incident wasn't related to any terrorist threats or anything other than what he wrote. Instead he chose not to express any other details to his thought and made a genealistic expression that to me sounds like racism. If you think I'm a fool for being hypersensitive then you're the bigger fool for believing what you see in the news and not knowing what racism is. Acually, the way I read Hamltnblue"s post, was that it was in hope that it wasn,t a terrorist act. We are just now starting to bring our troops home from our last major attack from terrorists. It would be heart broke if they had to turn around and go back. Truck.
jasperofzeal: Geared Steam: Truck: jasperofzeal: Hamltnblue: Just hope that the truck driver doesn't have a muslim name. Can you please keep your racist remarks to yourself. I do not think Hamltnblue was being racist, there have been rumors that trains may be attacked in retaliation to Osama Bin Laden's death, or other reasons. And after 9/11 people tend to take these threats seriosly. Truck. Agreed, nowhere do I read any "racism" in that post, and there are rumors that have been reported by our government found on OBL's hard drives. I know exactly what Hamltnblue meant by that post. Stop being hypersensitive, it makes you look foolish. Ok, I get it. Hamltnblue is your friend and you will support his comment regardless of what he meant. I believe he was being racist, what other reason would make him type such a statement? If he was expressing concern about the "threats" that ensued after OBL's death or 9/11 then Hamltnblue should have expressed his thought with more clarity. Perhaps saying something to the effect of hoping this incident wasn't related to any terrorist threats or anything other than what he wrote. Instead he chose not to express any other details to his thought and made a genealistic expression that to me sounds like racism. If you think I'm a fool for being hypersensitive then you're the bigger fool for believing what you see in the news and not knowing what racism is.
I interpreted the post in yet another way, as if Hamltnblue was saying, "if the driver of the truck has a muslim name. that would just add more wild rumors to the rumor mill." Sadly, though, in the post 9/11 world, we always have to consider that possibility (and it doesn't have to be someone with a muslim name, just someone with sympathies toward radical sects -- of whatever religion).
BTW Sheldon, I wasn't advocating copying any European country's system. But, as I'm sure some of our friends there can tell us, it's much harder to get a license the first time, easier to lose it, and nearly impossible to get it re-instated if you do. That's a lesson I think we could take home. "That which we achieve too easily, we value too little."
I feel a comment is in order, because I don't have a hankering to lock this thread if it doesn't need it, I understand that some feathers have been ruffled, and I understand why. It is clear. However, could we not step back a moment and consider the source? Has the gentleman EVER behaved in the way you attribute to him? If not, why would you assume the worst about his comment now?
As I have taken pains in the past to ask all of our members to do....
If you read something that you feel is inappropriate, or is truly offensive, you have two legitimate and considerate options:
Seek clarification. You can do that privately or ask your question in a reply. Use good judgement.
Or, report the infraction or offense using the appropriate function at the corner of each post.
I am not going to lock this (yet) because the topic, although somewhat outside those intended for this model forum, is an important one for obvious reasons. It should be as important for those of us who routinely post here, the person in question included, to show some good will toward one another, and to try to remain friendly to the extent our personalities permit.
Let's chill...please.
Crandell
Medina1128 rrinker: Texas Zepher: An update I saw (time stamped 16 minutes ago) says they did find tire skid marks from the truck. So the guy was either asleep or initially tried to beat the train then realized he wasn't goign to make it and became permanently aquainted with the laws of physics when he found out a multi-ton truck does not stop instantly no matter how many wheels it has and how hard you stomp the brake pedal. However it shakes out, this guy should NOT have been behind the wheel, and now innocent people are paying with their lives for this moron. --Randy Very astute observation, Randy. Reminds me of the people who think that because they have 4-wheel drive, they can still drive 60-70 mph on icy roads. I can't tell you how many times people have shot past me on icy roads, only to find them stuck in the middle of the snowbank a mile or so down the road. It's so sad that the acts of one person can affect many lives.
rrinker: Texas Zepher: An update I saw (time stamped 16 minutes ago) says they did find tire skid marks from the truck. So the guy was either asleep or initially tried to beat the train then realized he wasn't goign to make it and became permanently aquainted with the laws of physics when he found out a multi-ton truck does not stop instantly no matter how many wheels it has and how hard you stomp the brake pedal. However it shakes out, this guy should NOT have been behind the wheel, and now innocent people are paying with their lives for this moron. --Randy
Randy and Marlon,
Your comments both present a very reasonable explanation as to what may have caused this tragedy. I too have seen many drivers trying to outrun a train to a crossing only to realize they can't make it and manage to stop in time. Unfortunately, a semi with a load of gravel isn't the same as a 4-door sedan and now there are families whose lives will be forever changed. I have traveled this road several times and as another poster mentioned its very desolation makes it difficult to estimate the speed of a converging vehicle or train. Very Sad.
Here is some more detailed info:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/26/nevada.amtrak.crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
As it turns out the gravel truck was empty but a leader of a three truck convoy. The other two trucks stopped in time. The driver of the lead truck was a 40 some year old man from Nevada.
rrinker If the regulations on the truckign industry with regards to safety were only half as stringent as those on the railroad industry.... --Randy
There are regulations, Here in California there is a BIT program owners of trucks are supposed to inspect them every 90 days.
The CHP does an inspection every two years. Drivers have to have a medical exam every two years. "Mine is up in Sept." Some drivers with blood pressure issues and other medical problems may have to be examed every 6-12 months. If you do not pass or have a medical card you can not operate a commercial vehicel.
It is not clear why this guy hit the train. It appeares the truck was empty, you can tell by the light skid marks on either side of the yellow center divid line. Also even if his brakes were adjusted and working properly it may take longer for an empty truck to stop compared to a loaded one because they will just slide/ skid farther. At 100 psi tire pressure with no load theres not much rubber contacting the roadway, even worse trying to stop in wet conditions.
Even with the axles ripped away they will be able to check brake adjustments and so on to determin if it was a mechanical or human error. we will just have to wait and see.
Even with regulations in place, there are people that do not obide by them. It is just as easy as breaking speed limit laws or red light runners.
I am not a truck driver, but I do repair them and do have a class A licence. And a law was passed in Sept. 2005 that commercial drivers have to obide by the coomercial laws even when driving their own vehicles" I mean even our family car". If we get a ticket for speeding or traveling to close it cost us more in fines and points against our licence, and we cant even go to traffic school.
I'd tend to think the skid marks sort of rule out mechanical failure. The brakes worked. They were just applied too late and/or at too high a rate of speed.
As for not being able to judge speed as well due to the desolate nature of the territory - the rule of thumb is always if in doubt, assume the worse, How easily people forget. 2 out of 3 drivers sem to have remembered in this case.
White line fever is a term not heard very often. It is a mesmerizing condition where you are awake and not aware of everything going on around you but cognizant of what you are doing. Long straight roads are more prone to this condition then on curving or hilly terrain. Calling the driver names is not going to change this condition. If you have never driven long hours behind the wheel of a big rig then you have absolutely no right to judge someone an idiot or moron.
As for stringent regulations, All CDL holders are required to have a DOT physical every 2 years and random drug and alcohol testing. There are also random stop and searches of paperwork, vehicle condition and driver condition. One small log book discrepancy can place a driver and vehicle out of service. Big brother watches trucks more then any other vehicle on the road.
There is also sleep apnea conditions that could have played into this accident. It is possible that he had this condition and was not aware of it. Micro napping is caused by it.
I will not be surprised if the outcome of the investigation is driver inattention to conditions.
White line fever.
Pete
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