Let me share two thoughts while I'm having my coffee, reading through the forums a little on this Saturday morning, and procrastinating getting down to work:
1. Anyone who has reached the point of stealing from other people has usually reached the point of not caring about evaluating respective needs. In other words, if you're a thief, you will likely have NO problem, for instance, doing two or three thousand dollars worth of damage to someone's car (not to mention the hours and hours of owner anger and inconvenience) so that you can get the eighty cents in change you see in the cup holder.
2. At some point in my life I came to the realization that there seems to be no limit to what people can and will do, good and bad. I have to admit, though, this is pretty amazingly stupid!
I better get to work now....I wish it were my railroad layout work but it's work work!
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
Unbelievable! You gotta wonder what, if anything, was going through their minds when they did that. It's a sad state of affairs when thefts are so common now that anything and everything is a target. Contractors regularly have the construction materials and their tools stolen from houses they are building. It's almost got to the point where contractors need to post armed guards at their projects.
I worked for the electric utility before retiring and one time during our monthly safety meetings, the safety department had a presentation on thefts from company sites, complete with a slide show. One of the slide sets was of an individual who tried to steal live conductors from a switchyard. They showed photos of his body. I couldn't look, and some people left the room. We had a radio tower in the bush on top of a rocky hill. The grounding cables for the tower had to be run some distance over the rocks before there was enough soil for the ground rods. These cables were regularly cut off and stolen. The company tried anchoring them to the rock with closely spaced anchors to make cutting them up more difficult. The thieves just cut them into smaller pieces. It was a never ending battle.
What's wrong with our society?
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
Espee:
The size of the airplane had nothing to do with the fall of the twin towers. It was a lousy design, cutting edge or not.
Go to any building more than four stories high in whatever city you are located. You will find an I beam skeleton with beams every eight or ten feet, sometimes buried in the walls, sometimes just boxed in the middle of the room, and fire escape stairs at the far end of every hall. The twin towers had neither. It had spans as long as sixty feet supported only by steel trusses, and all ways down, elevators and stairs, were in the central core. When the central core caught fire all exits were blocked. When the trusses softened from the heat the building came down like a collapsing slinky.
Evidence of how easily frightened Americans are is all around you. The USAPatriot Act, TSA, The giant Orwellian Department of Homeland Security, and the fact that guns and ammunition are selling at record rates.
A terrorist is not going to remove rails from an industrial siding. A terrorist would just loosen rails at the approach to a bridge, or something similar on either a busy passenger route or where the wreck would happen in a highly populated area.
Larceny of metal is occurring daily all around us. Just a couple of days ago a KFC in South Carolina lost thousands of dollars worth of food because someone stole copper tubing from the outside of the building. The tubing was part of their refrigeration system.
Violent criminals have always been among us, but never before have we given up our most basic freedoms in an effort to catch them.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe Vet I knew someone would bring up the "T" word. The reason that terrorism works so well against America is that Americans are so easily frightened. The bomb in the parking garage at the World Trade Center was not a test for anything, it was a failed attempt. The reason the buildings fell down in the fire on 9/11 was that they were very poorly designed. You give way to much credit to a loosely formed band of primitive criminals.
I knew someone would bring up the "T" word. The reason that terrorism works so well against America is that Americans are so easily frightened.
The bomb in the parking garage at the World Trade Center was not a test for anything, it was a failed attempt. The reason the buildings fell down in the fire on 9/11 was that they were very poorly designed. You give way to much credit to a loosely formed band of primitive criminals.
Dave,
I'm not so sure that I agree with you that "terrorism works so well against America is that Americans are so easily frightened" I don't know about you, but I'm not frightened by terrorism nor do I let it affect the way I go about my business.Terrorism occurs in America and abroad because people become complacent and let their guard down. I'm not sure why your surprised by the thought that the act of removing a section of rail could be considered an attempt at "the 'T' word". With the price of scrap steel what it is right now, that 9 foot length of rail is worth a little over a $100. Seems like an awful lot of work to walk away with a hundred bucks in your pocket not to mention the risk involved. No one said theives were smart but they stood to make more money if they exerted that same effort into an honest job. On the other hand, if one was try to cause an incident with a lot of impact and attention, then the work involved in derailing a train could be considered minimal for the expected return.
I agree with what a lot of the others have said regarding times being tough and people resorting to stealing more to get money and this very well could have been an act of larceny. I guess i just don't always accept things as they appear because sometimes there's more to it than meets the eye.
Pat
PS:For the record the twin towers were cutting edge design for the time at which they were designed. They were designed to take the impact of the largest commercial jet in existance at the time, which was a 727. They were not designed to take the impact of todays jumbo jets nor was it designed to withstand the effects of a long term jet fuel fueled fire.
By the way I don't give "credit" to any terrorists, to do so would mean that I was in agreement with their actions. What I do have, is a respect for is these "loosely formed band of primitive criminals" level of determination to cause trouble.
Hamltnblue I just hope the rail thieves never think of raiding the club and stealing our rails. Imagine going to the club and only having ties in ballast on the layout.
I just hope the rail thieves never think of raiding the club and stealing our rails. Imagine going to the club and only having ties in ballast on the layout.
If they tried that in this area of Montana they would be looking at the working end of a Smith and Wesson being held by a guy with a healthy amount of experience in its use.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
Springfield PA
When I was a conductor some of the guys I worked with would often refer to the guys taking pictures as "FRN's" for those who might wonder, it's ____ rail nuts you fill in the blank. I mentioned to these rather overzealous individuals that these guys taking photos will be the first to spot someone practising vandalism or worse and the guys I know wouldn't hesitate to call the police or RR dispatcher.
Horrible situation that could have resulted in loss of life. I certainly hope law enforcement catches these thugs and they do some hard time behind bars. It is just unimaginable how someone could do this and then go home and sleep at night.
I do know this is not good for rail-fans but rail-fans do provide an extra set of eyes looking for vandals, thieves, and who knows what else. I was doing some rail fanning in Montana a couple of years ago when a security guard drove by to see what my wife and I were up to, we waved at each other and off he went. Obviously, if we had seen anything amiss an immediate phone call would have been made to 911.
Phoebe Vet If people are stealing rail then there is a scrap dealer buying rail. It doesn't take great investigative skill to check out the scrap yards. No one else has the facilities to process the rail into a usable or marketable form.
If people are stealing rail then there is a scrap dealer buying rail. It doesn't take great investigative skill to check out the scrap yards. No one else has the facilities to process the rail into a usable or marketable form.
We use rail for grizzly bars over our hoppers. It is not stolen. We bought about 4,000 lbs of rail about 20 years ago and still have some left. It is old worn out rail that will not take another grind. There is a market for old rail besides the scrap dealers.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
This is almost certainly the work of adventurous scrappers. Here's one for you, I'll let you decide if this is the act of a terrorist or mischief.
Musta gotten the idea from October Sky - remember when the rocket boys were looking for ways to find their rocket building, they ripped out a rail, 4 of them exhusted just rollign one section of rail out, then they hear the train coming, and look at one another, and the one guy says "I thought you said this line was abandoned?" then they struggle to try and get the rail in place and finally give up and run down the tracks hoping to stop the train, only to have it go off on a siding through a spiked turnout with the engineer (O Winston Link) waving at them.
No way just 2 peopel carried off the rail. But thieves and mischief makers get smarter all the time - I used to belong to a model railroad club located right along the tracks, very poor condition but still in use, so any trains ran VERY slowly. Some vandals pulled the pin about 6 cars from the end (what they thought they would then do with the 6 empty flat cars I have no idea) which of course put the train in emergency. But by the time the conductor got about to the middle of the train, the engineer caleed over the radio that air was comign back - so the vandals managed to close the angle$1****$2on the last car, otherwise no way would the pressure come back up. Back a little furhter they found the seperation. Other than a delay I don't knwo what they hoped to accomplish - maybe they thought the last few cars would roll back the way they came and cause some havoc, but it wasn;t downhill all the way so they likely would never have made it to occupied track.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Evidently here in Omaha, someone was stealing the piping off the UP Big Boy they have on display. The original piping has been replaced with something less valuable.
Ricky
At our local rail museum we had 2 39' track panels stolen from us 2 years ago. We know who did it but can't prove it and there is a political situation here that will most likely prevent us from doing anything about it. This guy has been busy ripping up the local RR infrastructure mostly legally, but he saw our panels on our property and decided to help himself. Supposedly, he did remove some rail from an active Rr in the area, and is facing charges for that. We have our rolling stock fenced in and that's probably the only reason we still have all of the brass bearings on the trucks!
Stealing railroad steel is not a new thing. My dad told a story about when Santa Fe was replacing the tracks that came trough town thirty years ago, that someone stole around 10 TONS of rail spikes and spike plates. It turns out that some scrap dealer in another town was looking for a big bargain and decided to help himself. When the Santa Fe company investigated his scrap yard, they found everything that belonged to them was on his property along with some stolen rail from a siding that belonged to Missouri Pacific.
Will
I hope that this act was indeed nothing more than theft and not a deliberate act of terrorism. If you remember upon the death of Bin Laden, the CIA discovered plans in his possesion depicting acts of terrorism against potential railroad targets. I hope this wasn't a "dry run" to see what it would take to cause a derailment so that it could be put into action on a busy commuter line.
It was thought that the first bombing attempt at the Twin Towers back in 1993 in the lower parking garage was a test to see what it would take to bring down the tower. We all know what happened 8 years later.
On a different note, the person from CSX stated that at least 2 people were required to pick up the 900 lb rail segment. If thats the case I would not want to get on those two guys bad side. I remember having to install a 600lb flitch plate in a house we were building years ago. It took 9 of us to safely carry and install the thing. There is no way 2 people alone picked up this piece of rail unless they had some type of mechanical help.
This whole business is why I'm somewhat skeptical about the idea of massive electrification of rail lines running through the approximate heart of nowhere...
Some years ago the live steam model railroad in Hagen Park, Rancho Cordova, CA, had some hundreds of feet of rail stolen. Imagine showing up for a live steam meet just to discover that there was no rail on the right-of-way.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
CTValleyRR Laws like this only work as a deterrent if people know about them.
Laws like this only work as a deterrent if people know about them.
Ah, but the dealers have been informed and follow the law {at least in most cases} {at leat around here anyways}. At least the RESPECTABLE scrappers and recyclers do.
If someone shows up with something like manhole covers or RR rails or such, they will surely caught attention. Especially if manhole covers turn up missing in the roads the dealers travel on!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
galaxy Nope, it doesn't make it any easier on regular Railfanners when SHTUFF like this happens. Here in my area there are a few scrap and recycle dealers. I don't know if it is local law or NY State law,, but recyclers and scrap dealers now have to record WHERE the scrap came from, WHEN they aquired it, HOW they came to its possession, AND FINGERPRINT AND Drivers LIcense copy anyone turning in SCRAP NOW. IF it IS odd stuff...like 600 volt cables, manhole covers etc, too much copper plumbing or wiring for non-contractors, they have to notify police as such stuff does nto come by just anyone easily!!! Then the police get involved before any payout or scrap is takem, OTHERWISE the dealer can be heavily fined and put out of business!!! Hope this law spreads like wild fire everywhere!!!
Nope, it doesn't make it any easier on regular Railfanners when SHTUFF like this happens.
Here in my area there are a few scrap and recycle dealers. I don't know if it is local law or NY State law,, but recyclers and scrap dealers now have to record WHERE the scrap came from, WHEN they aquired it, HOW they came to its possession, AND FINGERPRINT AND Drivers LIcense copy anyone turning in SCRAP NOW. IF it IS odd stuff...like 600 volt cables, manhole covers etc, too much copper plumbing or wiring for non-contractors, they have to notify police as such stuff does nto come by just anyone easily!!! Then the police get involved before any payout or scrap is takem, OTHERWISE the dealer can be heavily fined and put out of business!!!
Hope this law spreads like wild fire everywhere!!!
Unfortunately, thieves ain't exactly the brightest stars in the sky. Otherwise they wouldn't be thieves. While I'm sure there are unscrupulous scrap dealers out there who would gladly break the law, it's better than even money that either the thieves had some means of melting it down themselves, or they got their half-ton prize to a scrap yard, only to find they couldn't dispose of it.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I've seen people come home from work to find flooding in their basements because the copper plumbing was stolen. And someone actually stole 2 bridge support sections out of a scrapyard. How do you walk off with 10 tons of steel? lol That one sounded like an insurance scam to me.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." -Aristotle
This is a job for Isaac Bell and the Van Dorn Detective Agency...(for you Clive Cussler fans.)
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Thats nothing , thieves here stole the 600 volt cable from the engines parked on a siding. The engines were on auto start because of the cold weather, could you see those guys if the engine would have fired up. There were three dash nines that they took the cable from. Its about 6 inches thick and about 50 feet long, couldn't imagine trying to carry that let alone try to haul it and find some scrap yard to buy it. Most scrap yards here take your pic and copy your license and your plate numbers. Jim.
What is truly unbelievable is the theft of bronze plaques from cemeteries. Those people should be shot! Around here there are quite a few houses with outdoor showers. Thieves have been ripping off the copper pipe for the showers while the homeowners are in the house. A car dealer last year had 35 catalytic converters stolen out of new cars on the lot. The thievery is getting way out of control.
Hamltnblue Just found this while surfing. They should be able to shoot people like this on the spot. http://www.tauntongazette.com/news/business_news/x530602459/Police-investigate-theft-of-railroad-tracks-in-Taunton-today-train-derailed
Just found this while surfing. They should be able to shoot people like this on the spot.
http://www.tauntongazette.com/news/business_news/x530602459/Police-investigate-theft-of-railroad-tracks-in-Taunton-today-train-derailed
I agree, I can tolerate a lot of different charcteristics in people, but a theif is a chicken #@^% peice of trash that needs to be disposed of.
Once you have something taken from you that you worked hard for, you would problably feel the same way too.
Just my anger at this moment, Truck.
Another down side it makes it rough on railfans.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Thats nothing! In my city the thieves are stealing manhole covers and sewer grates from the streets for scrap sale. This is causing hefty repairs for car owners. Not to mention how dangerous to drivers and bicycle riders. Another good one to mention.Last Christmas the shipping company I work for had about 30 brand new leased semi trailers parked in a remote lot for the extra christmas shipping. The thieves came in at night and stripped every inch of copper wire from each trailer. Also in my area they steal the wire and copper pipes from the job sites. Most new homes are all PVC piping now. Sure is shame what this world is comming too.
Unbelievable !
Just when you think that you have seen, heard and read it all.
Rich
Alton Junction