As investments go, you'd probably be better off buying lottery tickets.
I like to think that any investment into my hobby is an investment into my sanity. The more I buy, the saner I get!
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
Yep, we can probably put a fork in this topic and say it is cooked.
Just like any item one can invest money in, there can be a lot of volatility and you have to buy low and sell high. I remember some Hallmark Christmas ornaments like the Star Ship Enterprise sold for $20 new and a few years later was selling on Ebay for $200. But now they are way down. You have to know when to ride the wave and get out. I bought some Kumata made brass HO California Zephyr passenger cars for an average of around $165 each. I didn't buy them as an investment but the effect was the same when BLI released their cars. I consigned my brass CZ cars to sell at Caboose Hobbies and it took over 2 years to unload them and I think I got maybe half the cost out of them that I had in. There you go.
The biggest issue for investing in things like this is RISK and Timing. In general I think it's good advice to say at best: tread lightly young padowan. But better advice: Probably best to just stick with "safe" forms of investing which means usually slow and steady gets the job done.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
johngriffey18ca1 I would like to hear everyone's opinion on Model railroading as an investment of sorts.... Sure it's not like the stock market where $300 per month eventually turns into $400,000 in 40 years. Do you think so?
I would like to hear everyone's opinion on Model railroading as an investment of sorts....
Sure it's not like the stock market where $300 per month eventually turns into $400,000 in 40 years.
Do you think so?
Oh yeah, it's a great investment. Hey, my $400,000 stock market investment turned into $300 in a lot less than 40 years.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rio Grande is probably right -- this topic has largely run its course.
Really, the ONLY investments with truly appreciating value are those which will remain semi-liquid in the future (stocks, bonds, commodities). For a "collectible" to appreciate in value, you have to be able to count on finding someone in the future who would be willing to pay the acquisition cost plus the time value of money. Not likely!
The value of a collection is in having it.
Model railroading stuff, OTOH, isn't really a collection unless you never run it and keep it well preserved.
But look at it another way -- you're investing in fun or relaxation. What's that worth to you? $10 an hour, $20, $5? Even at $5 an hour, if you get 201 hours of enjoyment out of the $1000 you put in, then you're making a good investment.
Based on that scale, my "investment" in model railroading has paid for itself several times over.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I wouldn't call it an "investment" as such, but occasionally I have picked up things specifically because I thought I could resell them, with some success. These tend to be very, very unusual circumstances, like finding a batch of stuff at a garage sale for ridiculously low prices. I have bought a few small collections because I wanted a few things, and sold the remainder, in some cases making more than I spent. Once a hobby shop that specialized in R/C cars had a large collection of old HO equipment, including a couple of brass locos and cars. I asked how much for all of it, and the owner named a very low price (he must have got it for a song) so I picked it up even though I only wanted a few pieces. I made my "investment" back and then some, plus got the items I wanted for "free," but that's a once-in-a-blue-moon experience, not something you can count on coming down the pike. Plus it was all equipment in my scale and general era, if any of it didn't sell I would have just kept it and run it on my home layout.
I have also noticed that people tend to sell old kits etc. more cheaply during economic downturns, and the same kits sell for a lot more when the economy is doing relatively well, and have sold some "deals" for a profit by getting a dealer table in sunny economic times and selling off my stash of "recession models." Fortunately my own circumstances weren't so dire that I had to sell them before things were looking up! Doing this sort of thing depends on your own level of experience at assessing the value of model railroad stuff, your willingness to store, price, and sell the things, and the market. It's not an "investment" in the traditional sense, but more of an occasional opportunity.
And sometimes the only return I look for when selling a kit is a bit more storage space! When I first got back into the hobby I was a little indiscriminate about my MRR purchases (much to the joy of my local hobby shop.) After a kit sits for a few years, I will often consider whether I'm really going to build or run it--and sometimes the answer is no. I would rather sell it at a loss than let it sit indefinitely in my basement taking up space. As time goes on I tend to be a little better about buying things I won't use, but occasionally one slips through...
Well, model railroading is an investment, but not in money terms. It is an investment into fun, entertainment and relaxation. Aside from very rare tin plate models of the beginnings of model railroading, who achieve skyrocketing prices at auctions (when in mint condition), all equipment rather depreciates in value, unless you are prepared to wait for 60 - 80 years. When you are forced to sell your prized collection, like I had to, your are lucky to achieve 40 - 50 % of your initial investment. That hurts!
Since I am "getting up there" my wife was given instructions a few years ago in writing on what steps to take when I pass (if I go first). I have a large investment in HO, but I know that the return will be pretty low. I told her to contact the local NMRA brothers to give them first crack at anything (I do have some nice equipment amongst the junk) and she has a price list on everything. I have also enlisted a couple of the older NMRA guys in our group who have offered to help her.
Then I told her to let them have a sale to the public with the leftovers, but not to worry about selling track, scenery, benchwork, but to put the effort in the structures and equipment, plus DCC equipment. Then pay someone to "clean out the junk" left in the basement.
I do have one item, an old original Lionel scale Hudson steam engine that I received from m;y dad for my first birthday (he was anxious to get rolling) and which still runs today on a test track. I have had offers of a few thousand bucks for it, so I keep it in sight but out of reach.
Bob
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
An investment typically is anything you own in order to see an encrease in value such that it profits you financially. But investments are also a speculation which you believe you have a good chance at a long term fiancial gain. It can be a house, property, precious metals, antiques or any number of items which have value to people. Model trains fall in a category I would call highly volatile and risky. Take that for what it's worth.
pastorbob Since I am "getting up there" my wife was given instructions a few years ago in writing on what steps to take when I pass (if I go first). I have a large investment in HO, but I know that the return will be pretty low. I told her to contact the local NMRA brothers to give them first crack at anything (I do have some nice equipment amongst the junk) and she has a price list on everything. I have also enlisted a couple of the older NMRA guys in our group who have offered to help her. Then I told her to let them have a sale to the public with the leftovers, but not to worry about selling track, scenery, benchwork, but to put the effort in the structures and equipment, plus DCC equipment. Then pay someone to "clean out the junk" left in the basement. I do have one item, an old original Lionel scale Hudson steam engine that I received from m;y dad for my first birthday (he was anxious to get rolling) and which still runs today on a test track. I have had offers of a few thousand bucks for it, so I keep it in sight but out of reach. Bob
Bob, Wise man. I know where your true treasure is stored anyway, which is up there with abba Father where rust and moth do not destroy. =)
Your post reminds me of a friend I had corresponded with for some years and finally met in person in March of 2010. He was also a Santa Fe modeler but lived in the Washington DC area. He passed away just after I met him in Winchester VA for breakfast and to visit a local train show. Since then his trains have been being sold off. They are something we can enjoy during this ephemeral existance. From a song I had on an old music tape: Like a vapor this life is just waiting to passLike the flowers that fade like the withering grass.
I also have an old Lionel Hudson my dad bought used and gave to me as my first "electric train" at the age of 4 years old in 1964 for Christmas. It is missing lots of part unfortunately but still holds a lot of sentimental value.
blownout cylinder
'E's not dead, 'e's just pining for the fjords...
John
I would love to "sell" my wife on the fact that model railroading can be an investment. I picked up a PFM C&O K3 about 15 years ago from an estate of a model railroader who passed away. I paid $200. Well, I just sold it for $1100. Not bad.
So, I used some of the money and bought a Key N&W Class J #611 for about $700. According to some of the brass train books on prices, it is worth about $1300.
I intend to run the new engine with some Division Point N&W passenger cars that I just bought. I have about 10 locomotives that are brass along with about the same number of brass cabooses. I have 15 FSM kits. I have built or kitbashed 8 of them. The others are awaiting more progress on the mainline. But, I do not look at this as an investment. I made more than a few dollars on the BNSF stock when Murdock bought the railroad. I have made a bit of money on NS and CSX stock over the years. I think they are a better investment But they are not as fun to play with.
Craig North Carolina
Aikidomaster I would love to "sell" my wife on the fact that model railroading can be an investment. I picked up a PFM C&O K3 about 15 years ago from an estate of a model railroader who passed away. I paid $200. Well, I just sold it for $1100. Not bad. So, I used some of the money and bought a Key N&W Class J #611 for about $700. According to some of the brass train books on prices, it is worth about $1300. I intend to run the new engine with some Division Point N&W passenger cars that I just bought. I have about 10 locomotives that are brass along with about the same number of brass cabooses. I have 15 FSM kits. I have built or kitbashed 8 of them. The others are awaiting more progress on the mainline. But, I do not look at this as an investment. I made more than a few dollars on the BNSF stock when Murdock bought the railroad. I have made a bit of money on NS and CSX stock over the years. I think they are a better investment But they are not as fun to play with.
Yeah, I just love the little "Pop" sound they make when the bubble bursts...
I have the Fox Business channel on most of the day. I have found there are markets for everything of value. There is no market for model trains, or model anything for that matter.
Photobucket Albums:NPBL - 2008 The BeginningNPBL - 2009 Phase INPBL - 2010 Downtown
I'd say that your question is about the second best idea I've heard all day.... but all the other ideas were tied for first...
Seriously,.. You're kidding, right?
Model Railroading is a hobby. Demand comes and goes. About the ONLY thing you'll make any money on EVER is brass, and even with that,not alot.
Sure, if you get lucky and find an estate sale with a thousand brass locos allin their original boxes, etc, etc,.. but the internet and Ebay make that likelihood slim to none these days.
Don't believe me? Ask the guys who were paying 300-500 bucks for brass C.N. steam gennies up till a couple years ago,... all great, until Rapido brought out their beautiful plasic one.... for 59.99. OOPS.
Or CP wood cabooses, always selling for 150-200 bucks on Ebay,until True Line brought out their amazing plastic one... for 39.99. Now you can't barely give them away...
My (useless) advice. Save your money, invest in real estate. Buy the equipment you want, and run it hard. Enjoy it, and if you sell something for more than you paid, consider it a bonus.
Van Hobbies H1b, K1a, T1c, D10g, F1a, F2a, G5a. Division Point: H24-66 Hammerhead, Alco covered wagons A-B-B-A, C-Liner A-B-B-A, EMD FP7A A-B-B.
H1b modified to replicate modern day 2816. All with Tsunamis.
There's an old saying, paraphrased many times over, that goes something like this:
"My life will NOT be a journey to the grave, where I arrive demurely, quietly and in a well-preserved body. No sir, I plan to come SKIDDING IN SIDEWAYS at the last possible minute, body totally used up and worn out – where you can see what my life meant, because it’s mapped out in the laugh lines on my face and the gray hairs on my head… ! I plan on having a chocolate eclair in one hand, and a glass of well-aged scotch in the other, hollering *WOO HOO!* What a RIDE!"
It's better to burn out than to fade away....
jwhitten There's an old saying, paraphrased many times over, that goes something like this: "My life will NOT be a journey to the grave, where I arrive demurely, quietly and in a well-preserved body. No sir, I plan to come SKIDDING IN SIDEWAYS at the last possible minute, body totally used up and worn out – where you can see what my life meant, because it’s mapped out in the laugh lines on my face and the gray hairs on my head… ! I plan on having a chocolate eclair in one hand, and a glass of well-aged scotch in the other, hollering *WOO HOO!* What a RIDE!" John
Maybe it is an investment - an investment in getting even with your kids........
My wife and I decided many years ago that our wills would read "Being of sound mind and body we spent it all" and that the six evil children (we each have three from previous marriages) would have to have a big estate sale to see any profit from our passing. So mine will have to sell off the trains, the Gravely tractor, the tools and the books. And haul to the dump the 50 years of Model Rialroader and MRC that will be of NO value by then since they will be on DVD.
No offense intended to those of you who have perfect children, dispite our best efforts, the other half of the gene pool was defective to one degree or another.
Important life lesson - be carefull who you have children with.
DISCLAIMER - No need for any flaming rebuttals to my views on parenthood - you won't change my mind - the views expressed here are my own, based on my own life experiances - your mileage may vary.
Sheldon
it is so nice when people take things in the spirit that you intended.
I love my children dearly (even if I don't like them all the time), I would not trade any one of them for a billion dollars, but I would not give you a nickel for another one.
ATLANTIC CENTRALDISCLAIMER - No need for any flaming rebuttals to my views on parenthood - you won't change my mind - the views expressed here are my own, based on my own life experiences - your mileage may vary.
Rule of Thumb: It's always funnier if it ain't your kids! Always!
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
ATLANTIC CENTRALNo offense intended to those of you who have perfect children, dispite our best efforts, the other half of the gene pool was defective to one degree or another. Important life lesson - be carefull who you have children with. DISCLAIMER - No need for any flaming rebuttals to my views on parenthood - you won't change my mind - the views expressed here are my own, based on my own life experiances - your mileage may vary. Sheldon
You brought back a good memory for me Sheldon, when one of the my grandfathers children or grandchildren (me being one of them) would act up or doing something foolish, he would say "That must be the Houston in them". Houston being my grandmother's maiden name.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steam ATLANTIC CENTRAL: No offense intended to those of you who have perfect children, dispite our best efforts, the other half of the gene pool was defective to one degree or another. Important life lesson - be carefull who you have children with. DISCLAIMER - No need for any flaming rebuttals to my views on parenthood - you won't change my mind - the views expressed here are my own, based on my own life experiances - your mileage may vary. Sheldon You brought back a good memory for me Sheldon, when one of the my grandfathers children or grandchildren (me being one of them) would act up or doing something foolish, he would say "That must be the Houston in them". Houston being my grandmother's maiden name.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: No offense intended to those of you who have perfect children, dispite our best efforts, the other half of the gene pool was defective to one degree or another. Important life lesson - be carefull who you have children with. DISCLAIMER - No need for any flaming rebuttals to my views on parenthood - you won't change my mind - the views expressed here are my own, based on my own life experiances - your mileage may vary. Sheldon
Our grandparents were way smarter than all these "experts" in all these Universities, with all their "research" and grant money.
Without all that, our grandparents knew beyond any doubt - "the apple does not fall far from the tree".
I firmly believe that you are who you are the day the die is cast, environment only helps determine which "version" of that person you will be.
And in this culture today, a large part of that environment factor has been completely removed from the parents control. So if the State wants to tell me how to raise them, the State can have them.
Here is my last little bit of philosphy on this topic - "Any culture that removes the ablity of parents to instill their own values in their children, is doomed to self destruction". In raising six children, I have been appauled at the efforts put forth by educators and others to directly undermine my authority over, and my credibility with, my children.
So I build model trains, happily spending their inheritance.
Amen to that, Sheldon!
The little money I have to spend on model railroading I "invest" happily into my own relaxation and fun, letting my son worry about this being an "interest" bearing investment, when the time comes