Time to lock this thread?
It is beginning to seem like a boxing match.
Rich
Alton Junction
It's starting to go the natural course so no worry. It'll be on page 4 in a couple of days.
Springfield PA
Randy,
I agree with your comments about Bachmann Spectrum. I should have also distinguished between their steam and diesel line. Nearly all of the reviews I have read about Spectrum steam have been praise and high marks. The diesel line, however, has been "as a rule" not very good.
As David M Beddard pointed out, Model Railroader has a "light touch" and tries not to be too critical in their reviews because they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them, and advertising dollars are a big part of their income. But with the Bachman reviews, there has been some frank criticism of the numerous flaws on Bachmann and Bachmann Spectrum which specifically point out diminsional flaws, and other characteristics. The reviewer once called (in separate reviews) the GP35 and SD45's "four foot models" - which he explained that if you stand at least 4 fee away from the model, you may not notice the flaws. I recall Bachmann was criticized (rightly) for its poor quality SD45, which then went through at least two make overs from an improved Plus model to a more improved Spectrum. Of course my knowledge is mostly of HO Spectrum, not N.
richhotrainTime to lock this thread? It is beginning to seem like a boxing match. Rich
I disagree. In fact when people come in and say things like the above, it makes the topic look worse than it really is. This is a spirited debate (allowed) and not a topic with personal attacks and below the belt comments. People in forums need to learn to distinguish the difference and not come in and make comments that may have the effect of escalate a good debate into a topic that turns into a flame war. This the former, not the later.
Thanks.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
TA462 I don't think it's a boxing match, more like what peoples opinion of what is a good locomotive. Some people do have different standards then others.
I don't think it's a boxing match, more like what peoples opinion of what is a good locomotive. Some people do have different standards then others.
Or more like: Buy a Chevy or aFord! That's why I'll run my MOPARS (Atlas, P2K, Stewarts and BLIs in the meantime.)
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
bogp40 Or more like: Buy a Chevy or aFord! That's why I'll run my MOPARS (Atlas, P2K, Stewarts and BLIs in the meantime.)
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
jeffrey-wimberly bogp40: Or more like: Buy a Chevy or aFord! That's why I'll run my MOPARS (Atlas, P2K, Stewarts and BLIs in the meantime.) I wouldn't mind being able to afford those. I'll have to be happy with my Bachmann's and Athearn's. Most of my Proto 2000's are old standard DC models that I hardwired for DCC. The four Atlas locos I have are also older runs.
bogp40: Or more like: Buy a Chevy or aFord! That's why I'll run my MOPARS (Atlas, P2K, Stewarts and BLIs in the meantime.)
And it's all good, As long as you're Having "FUN", This is the reason for a hobby anyway
bogp40 And it's all good, As long as you're Having "FUN", This is the reason for a hobby anyway
When my LHS owner told me Bachmann was releasing the DD40 with new tooling and not toy like like the older ones with oversized hand rails, And with DCC installed. I had him put one on his preorder list for me. This is N scale by the way. I new the first thing I would have to do was swap out the decoder. Not a problem I expect that with all Bachmann DCC equiped locos. But when I saw the trucks on this thing my jaw dropped. The lower part of the porches are mounted on the trucks AND IT REALY LOOKS TOYISH. I would have prefered elongated pilots for the couplers over what they did to the trucks. And after what I had to do to my F7 A&B units for couplers I have steered clear of Bachmann N scale deisels. So seeing how it was a special order I felt obligated to buy it I do have Spectrum steam wich are nice runners and what slight scale differeces there are are hardly noticable. Maybe one day I will cut the lower porches off and mount them to the body so that it does'nt look so goofy. I know they did it to negotiate curves. Here are pic's of what I am talking about. see for yourselfs.
Since the OP was asking about N scale, I think the HO scale folks here would do well to step back to the sideline and not offer opinions about something they know nothing about. I have some HO Spectrum diesels, and they are by and large very nice looking and smooth runners. I don't own enough of them to make any more comment than that.
The N scale Bachmann SD40-2 was originally offered in the late 1980's, before they differentiated between the standard line and Spectrum. It was a dog then, both in terms of appearance and performance. While it did have a split frame drive, it had nylon gears, which were notorious for splitting, causing a tapping noise and sputtering and ultimately stalls.
They warmed over this turd in the late 90's, adding the "Spectrum" brand to it, and making it a companion to the slightly better Dash 8 GE's they offered as Spectrum. While the paint schemes were moderately better, the chunky appearance and spotty performance persisted.
For those of you taking notes at home, in N scale, Spectrum is better known for its steam offerings, especially the 2-8-0, which has been extremely well received despite occasional quality control issues.
The Spectrum F-7 diesel is probably the best of their diesel offerings, but it's still a far cry from F-7's offered by Kato and Intermountain.
If you're looking to expand your diesel fleet, I would strongly suggest that you avoid Bachmann generally. If you have any particular models you have questions about, I also recommend the spookshow website. There is no more comprehensive listing of N scale locomotives available, and it is pretty accurate in its appraisal of everything listed there, based on my experience.
Don't fret... just live and learn.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
wm3798 Since the OP was asking about N scale, I think the HO scale folks here would do well to step back to the sideline and not offer opinions about something they know nothing about.
Since the OP was asking about N scale, I think the HO scale folks here would do well to step back to the sideline and not offer opinions about something they know nothing about.
Pardon me, but we have eye's and can see well enough from the photo's provided.
Probably most or many of the HO scalers here also own N or have owned it btw.
I was referring to the lengthy exchange about HO locomotives that took place after the OP clarified it was N he was discussing... I'm familiar enough with Spectrum's HO work to know that it's much better proportioned, and better built than some of the junk they put out in N.
It happens all the time on this forum. A guy asks about something related to an N product, and the HO busy bodies jump right in and offer "I don't model in N, but here's what I think about a product that I've likely never seen and will never buy..."
While there is a lot of information that gets tossed around that isn't scale specific, it saves people a lot of time if a specific question about a specific product gets answers from people who have experience with that product. Just sayin'
N Scale Diesels......I like 'em
wm3798 Since the OP was asking about N scale, I think the HO scale folks here would do well to step back to the sideline and not offer opinions about something they know nothing about. I have some HO Spectrum diesels, and they are by and large very nice looking and smooth runners. I don't own enough of them to make any more comment than that. .Don't fret... just live and learn. Lee
.Don't fret... just live and learn.
Ooooh, OK, Lee. We will all step back to the sideline and not offer opinions. Since you have "some" HO Spectrum diesels, you, of course, are qualified to speak on any matter while none of the rest of us are permitted to speak. We will just live and learn. Teach us more.
This thread has gotten way off topic to my orginal question. Which was is the size differnce right or wrong? I asked nothing about how it worked the quality of it comapred to other brands. I know that there are certainly better brands out there and my Atlas locos run better and quieter than the Bachman but I still find it runs fine. It is a little noiser than my others but it is a lower quality thats kinda to be expected. From what I read pervious to this is seemed like the Spectrum series was a higher end Bachman. I had a couple of lower end Bachman locos before and again they seemd to work fine just noisy.
I think I will form my own opinion on what I think of the brand.
And from what I gathered from what people actually said about the size is that there should be some length differnce but it is not to scale for height or width.
You were already given the answer in the quote from the Model Railroader review. The Bachmann model sits visibly too high on its trucks (not an uncommon failing in model locomotives - there are many similar examples in HO, steam and diesel). That was my initial take on see the photos in the beginning of the thread. But being a steam, HO guy I decided to keep my mouth shut.
The advantage of mounting a model higher than prototypical is the reduction in minimum radius that is often achieved. A model that is higher than it should be has less hanging down to interfere with the swiveling of the trucks. And it gives a little more room for the drive train within the shell. But it can make a model seem out of scale or proportion, especially when sitting next to a model sitting as low it should.
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
Fire fighter Mike This thread has gotten way off topic to my orginal question. Which was is the size differnce right or wrong?
This thread has gotten way off topic to my orginal question. Which was is the size differnce right or wrong?
Boy, they don't get it, do they?
Without getting into any discussion as to the quality of any particular offering, if you were comparing prototype locomotives the GP40 would have larger physical dimensions. You can compare the dimensions yourself. For the RS-3, see http://www.thedieselshop.us/DataRS-3.HTML. And for the GP-40, see http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20GP40.HTML. While I can't vouch for the accuracy of the dimensions at those links, at least it's a starting point for comparison purposes.
Now if the dimensional accuracy of the models is of concern, you can use a scale rule to compare the model to the prototype. And if you're happy just knowing that one engine is just naturally larger than the other, well go ahead and enjoy the thing and don't pay attention to all the blather.
Regards.
Mike,seeing how we're comparing a sd40 to an alco rs18,(both pictured on first page), the rs18 is 56' 11" long, height at cab is 15' 4", the sd40 is 68'10" long with cab height at 15'7.5". So, yes it is bigger, and aside from the issues of the bachman units height on frame which make it larger yet, if you are happy with it, then by all means use it.
This pie's baked.
[locked]
selector This pie's baked. [locked]
Is it?
m horton Mike,seeing how we're comparing a sd40 to an alco rs18,(both pictured on first page), the rs18 is 56' 11" long, height at cab is 15' 4", the sd40 is 68'10" long with cab height at 15'7.5". So, yes it is bigger, and aside from the issues of the bachman units height on frame which make it larger yet, if you are happy with it, then by all means use it.
Thanks thats the info I was looking for.