Hello all,
So I bought a Bachman spectrum GP40 off of ebay and it came in the mail today. It works great and doesn't look to bad I can't complain for the price (less than $40 shipped) My issue is I currently have a couple of RS locos an 18 and a 3 now my issue is there is quite a substantial size differnce in width and height between the Bachman and the other two (which are Atlas).
I'm just wondering is this size diiferince correct? I didn't honestly think there would be that much of a differnce between them.
Hi,
Assuming they are both HO, the size difference is representative of the prototypes. The RS locos may appear "small", especially in width as it had a narrow shell to cover the engine/generator. The GP40 is a much more modern, larger loco and has a wider shell, etc. Also, the cab is larger as well.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
sorry they are n-scale.
It just caught me a little off gaurd to see such a size differnce
Yes, there's quite a size difference. If I remember correctly the hp of the RS3 was 1600 (244 12 cylinder) and the RS18 was around 2000 while the GP40 cranked out 3000 hp (645E3 V16).
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Ok lets try this I snapped a couple of pictures side by side. Just let me know if the size differnce seems right
Looks right to me. I noted the same difference between my MDC RS3's and Bachmann GP40's.
Yep. That's about the size difference I would expect, too.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
ok well thats some good news. i'll take the time to modify it for DCC then if it seems correct to the more experinced people
And if you think those RS's are small, try a GE 44- or 80-tonner. My GE 44Ton Switcher looks like an N scale model next to the big PA.
davidmbedard Actually, the GP is a toy-grade Bachmann piece of doo-doo, and because of that, it is out of scale (on the huge side). The atlas units are properly scaled. David B
Actually, the GP is a toy-grade Bachmann piece of doo-doo, and because of that, it is out of scale (on the huge side). The atlas units are properly scaled.
David B
That doesn't look like a GP40-2. It looks like an SD40-2. Big difference there.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
To me the Bachmann looks like it is sitting too high up on its trucks. I agree with the prior poster that isn't a GP unit. The three axle trucks would make it some sort of an SD. I would guess an SD40-2. Even HO scale SD40s have problems with truck clearance to get the bodies down as far as they are supposed to be.
My bad it is an SD 40-2.
I find it interesting you think of it as "toy grade" I did a little reserch on here before I bought it and it seemd as though the spectrum series was one of the higer end locos that Bachamn makes. Did I mis understand? I've never bought anything by Bachamn before so I wasn't sure what to really expect. I still think I did quite well on it for what I paid for it even if it is a "toy grade" and I certainly mean no offence when I say this but there seems to be a lot of opposition to your statement that the size differnce isn't correct.
Now in saying that realizing it is an SD 40-2 instead of a GP38-2 does that make any sort of differnce in it's size differnce? Again I know the SD 40's would in general be a bigger loco
Fire fighter Mike davidmbedard: Actually, the GP is a toy-grade Bachmann piece of doo-doo, and because of that, it is out of scale (on the huge side). The atlas units are properly scaled. David B I find it interesting you think of it as "toy grade" I did a little reserch on here before I bought it and it seemd as though the spectrum series was one of the higer end locos that Bachamn makes. Did I mis understand? I've never bought anything by Bachamn before so I wasn't sure what to really expect. I still think I did quite well on it for what I paid for it even if it is a "toy grade" and I certainly mean no offence when I say this but there seems to be a lot of opposition to your statement that the size differnce isn't correct. Now in saying that realizing it is an SD 40-2 instead of a GP38-2 does that make any sort of differnce in it's size differnce? Again I know the SD 40's would in general be a bigger loco
davidmbedard: Actually, the GP is a toy-grade Bachmann piece of doo-doo, and because of that, it is out of scale (on the huge side). The atlas units are properly scaled. David B
Mike,
I think that David B. is being unduly critical of the Bachmann Spectrum product. There are higher quality products out there than Bachmann, but I would not consider Spectrum as a "toy grade".
Rich
Alton Junction
The next time that you are in your local hobby shop, take a look at the display case and notice the size differences on steam engines as well. Regardless of scale, N or HO or whatever, there are significant differences in height on steam engines with different wheel configurations.
First, Bachmann Spectrum series is highly appreciated and sought after as they are of good runnign and detail. SO you did not "miss" understand anything.
Second, many shoot down Bachmann, well my entire fleet is of bachmanns- both regular and spectrums. {Often teh spectrums BECOME their 'regualr series" after intorduction. MY Bachmanns have nto given me a lick of trouble in 6 years compared to my athearn, I'll take the Bachmann "DCC OnBoards.
Third, just like steamers were of differing sizes inthe "old days", the diesels come in different 1:1 real world size!!!! SO comparing an RS3 {i think?} to An SD 38 or SD40-somehting will look different in size. And modern day diesels can dwarf some older diesels.
Now, If you were directly comparing 2 models brands of the SAME loco like Jeffrey W. did , you may still find a size difference, but that would be each manufacturers take on it.
I think you will be happy with your choice of purchase. My Bachmanns have yet to let me down!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
The bachman unit sits way to high on the frame, look at the height of the steps on engines front. The atlas looks closer to scale, the sd40 does look toy like.I wonder how it measures up to an n gauge ruler?
I have to agree with David on this. The Bachmann Spectrum SD40-2 was first released in '94 (I think). It was a poor seller because it sat up WAY too high and the fuel tank was too tall to help make it not so noticeable. Compare it to a Kato SD40-2 to see what I mean.
Yes, this is a toy loco...it is just slightly upgraded from the old Bachmann SD40-2 from 30 years ago.
I am not a Bachmann basher. I own several of their HO and On30 locomotives. I just call it like I see it.
Why hasn't anyone suggested using a scale rule to measure the model and compare the dimensions against the prototypes? I expect you will find that both models are "pretty close". The only dimension that is frequently off on HO models is that the diesel hood may be slightly wider than the prototype to be better able to accomodate the motor and electronics inside. That was a fairly frequent "error" on the early Athearn diesels, but many of the more recent releases from most manufacturors have been closer to the actual dimension. Given that an RS3 counts as a "first generation" diesel and an SD40 is at least "third generation", the difference is to be expected.
Bill
Considering the sd40 is a foot taller than an rs18, the bachman looks way out of scale.
Come to think of it I remember the N scale SD40-2. I had one back in the late 80's, blinking beacon and all. Either that or an SD45. I always had trouble with the dang sideframes falling off the trucks.
davidmbedard And for all the "educated" people out there spewing out their opinions as "facts", I present to you the REVIEW from Model Railroader. 10/86 Model Railroader ("Bachmann's N scale version of this popular diesel is manufactured in Hong Kong and features a clean, straightforward design. To remove the body shell, spread the sides and lift up. The metal frame is made in two vertical halves separated by insulating spacers. Remove the screw at each end, and the mechanism falls apart quite neatly. The tiny double-ended, open-frame motor has a three-pole, skewed armature. The drive mechanism used in this unit is a new one to me. Rather than the usual gear tower with idler gears, the drive shaft angles down and by means of a plastic ball-type universal engages the hollow center of a plastic worm mounted directly on the truck. This worm engages the drive gear of the center axle directly. Idlers in the truck transfer the power to the other two axles. All the gears are plastic. I like this design. The trucks have considerably more freedom to swivel and pivot than is typical, so the locomotive tracks quite well. All 12 wheels are powered. The center pair of the rear set is equipped with traction tires. "I found the engine's performance to be quite satisfactory. Its 1-ounce drawbar pull is equivalent to about 24 free-rolling cars on straight level track. The electrical system on this engine is also quite straightforward and efficient. A large one-piece wiper on each truck-frame half contacts the back of each wheel as well as the bottom of a frame half. My one objection to this system is that it looks a bit odd and out of place when the locomotive is viewed from the side... The locomotive scales out fine for length and wheelbase. The hood is about a foot wider than scale... More disturbing is the locomotive's height. It stands about a foot too high; unfortunately the place where that foot is located is quite obvious - the body rides high above the tracks, making the engine look odd from the side... The body appears to be nicely detailed, although to be catty about it, the paint is too thick and glossy, making it hard to tell... The Santa Fe scheme on my sample was incorrect in that the separation line between blue and yellow should go straight across the top, rather than be pointed, and the deck should be blue. High marks, incidentally, for the handrails. These are quite a bit nicer than we're accustomed to. In summary, here's a good performer with innovative engineering features. Despite the shortcomings on appearance, the price should make this engine very attractive to many N scalers. UP, SF, BN, Family Lines. $22") There you have it, because the Spectrum uses the same shell (minus the blinky becon of the origional) even MR says it is out of scale....you got that, Mr Fire Fighter? David B
And for all the "educated" people out there spewing out their opinions as "facts", I present to you the REVIEW from Model Railroader.
10/86 Model Railroader ("Bachmann's N scale version of this popular diesel is manufactured in Hong Kong and features a clean, straightforward design. To remove the body shell, spread the sides and lift up. The metal frame is made in two vertical halves separated by insulating spacers. Remove the screw at each end, and the mechanism falls apart quite neatly. The tiny double-ended, open-frame motor has a three-pole, skewed armature. The drive mechanism used in this unit is a new one to me. Rather than the usual gear tower with idler gears, the drive shaft angles down and by means of a plastic ball-type universal engages the hollow center of a plastic worm mounted directly on the truck. This worm engages the drive gear of the center axle directly. Idlers in the truck transfer the power to the other two axles. All the gears are plastic. I like this design. The trucks have considerably more freedom to swivel and pivot than is typical, so the locomotive tracks quite well. All 12 wheels are powered. The center pair of the rear set is equipped with traction tires. "I found the engine's performance to be quite satisfactory. Its 1-ounce drawbar pull is equivalent to about 24 free-rolling cars on straight level track. The electrical system on this engine is also quite straightforward and efficient. A large one-piece wiper on each truck-frame half contacts the back of each wheel as well as the bottom of a frame half. My one objection to this system is that it looks a bit odd and out of place when the locomotive is viewed from the side... The locomotive scales out fine for length and wheelbase. The hood is about a foot wider than scale... More disturbing is the locomotive's height. It stands about a foot too high; unfortunately the place where that foot is located is quite obvious - the body rides high above the tracks, making the engine look odd from the side... The body appears to be nicely detailed, although to be catty about it, the paint is too thick and glossy, making it hard to tell... The Santa Fe scheme on my sample was incorrect in that the separation line between blue and yellow should go straight across the top, rather than be pointed, and the deck should be blue. High marks, incidentally, for the handrails. These are quite a bit nicer than we're accustomed to. In summary, here's a good performer with innovative engineering features. Despite the shortcomings on appearance, the price should make this engine very attractive to many N scalers. UP, SF, BN, Family Lines. $22")
"I found the engine's performance to be quite satisfactory. Its 1-ounce drawbar pull is equivalent to about 24 free-rolling cars on straight level track. The electrical system on this engine is also quite straightforward and efficient. A large one-piece wiper on each truck-frame half contacts the back of each wheel as well as the bottom of a frame half. My one objection to this system is that it looks a bit odd and out of place when the locomotive is viewed from the side... The locomotive scales out fine for length and wheelbase. The hood is about a foot wider than scale... More disturbing is the locomotive's height. It stands about a foot too high; unfortunately the place where that foot is located is quite obvious - the body rides high above the tracks, making the engine look odd from the side... The body appears to be nicely detailed, although to be catty about it, the paint is too thick and glossy, making it hard to tell... The Santa Fe scheme on my sample was incorrect in that the separation line between blue and yellow should go straight across the top, rather than be pointed, and the deck should be blue. High marks, incidentally, for the handrails. These are quite a bit nicer than we're accustomed to. In summary, here's a good performer with innovative engineering features. Despite the shortcomings on appearance, the price should make this engine very attractive to many N scalers. UP, SF, BN, Family Lines. $22")
There you have it, because the Spectrum uses the same shell (minus the blinky becon of the origional) even MR says it is out of scale....you got that, Mr Fire Fighter?
Well first of all, I was just asking for opinions if you want to get defensive about it and claim to be the only right person out there thats fine but you don't need to try and rub my nose in it.
Second I think maybe you need to read the article a little more closely seeing as it scales out fine for length and wheel base and it's only real short fall is it's height do to the fact it rides high on the trucks.
All in all the review you posted gives it quite a good review I think so calling it a "toy grade peice of doo doo" I think was wrong
Fire fighter Mike All in all the review you posted gives it quite a good review I think so calling it a "toy grade peice of doo doo" I think was wrong
Fire fighter Mike Ok lets try this I snapped a couple of pictures side by side. Just let me know if the size differnce seems right
The engine on the left has very large handrails and appears to be a bit oversized - which was common years ago in N scale, when trying to fit a motor into the body sometimes they would use a bigger than scale body so a bigger motor would fit. It may be Bachmann, not sure if it's Spectrum or just their cheaper "toy train grade" line?? There is/was a BIG difference quality-wise.
BTW neither one is an RS-3....
Wow, that's the most I've seen David type in a long time.
He's right about the Bachmann though for sure. Just look at it. Without something next to it you can still tell something isn't right.
Springfield PA
He may have put it differently, but hey, that's our Dave.
Read the article, it's spot on. Bachmann tried to cheap out by using the same old shell with a better (aqnd based on the review, that's questionable) drive. Their more recent efforts are probably better all around, but that one is just horrible. Not even close to the quality of that Atlas.
No, a real SD40-2 and RS-3 are not exactly the same size, the 40-2 is slightly larger. However, that thing is all out of proportion in height and width, and it shows in those pictures.
In HO there have been similar things, one that I own is the Walthers Trainline FA. The body shell is old, goes back to Train-Miniature days, and the detail is rather crude relative t the Proto 2000 effort. Some holes and grab irons later and it will be nearly up to par. The Walthers drive though, is hugely upgraded, 1/2 mph minimum speed on pure DC per the Model Railraoder review. The old T-M locos never could do that.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
davidmbedard Well first of all, I was just asking for opinions if you want to get defensive about it and claim to be the only right person out there thats fine but you don't need to try and rub my nose in it. I gave you my opinion. I owned these. They sucked. Others who commented on how great that loco is have NOT owned these or actually paid attention to the items OR scale you were talking about (JW...shame.....working on your post count again?). If you don't want my opinion, I suggest you dont ask for them. Next time, post with the title "Look at my really cool locos...and no opinions allowed, just high-5s".....or you can post the pics in the Weekend Photo Fun....no negative comments are allowed there. Second I think maybe you need to read the article a little more closely seeing as it scales out fine for length and wheel base and it's only real short fall is it's height do to the fact it rides high on the trucks. My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. The 2 issues I was talking to you about was mentioned in the review......height and width....I didn't mention anything about length. All in all the review you posted gives it quite a good review I think so calling it a "toy grade peice of doo doo" I think was wrong Actually, the review and the review of Spook show give this a grade of "C". If you are OK with a "C" then good for you. In my little world, a "C" just doesn't cut it. BTW, the Atlas unit you are comparing it to has a rating of an "A". It is scaled properly and have a modern, quality drive. Not everyone on these forums is going to hold your hand and sing Kumbaya. You could also consider thanking me for showing you a resource that will help you make better purchases in N scale. Also note that asking for opinions or thoughts will give you both sides of the equation. My experience and advice would be to listen to the NEGATIVES as they are more likely to be routed in experience rather than a fuzzy feeling over the "spectrum" name. David B
Well first of all, I was just asking for opinions if you want to get defensive about it and claim to be the only right person out there thats fine but you don't need to try and rub my nose in it. I gave you my opinion. I owned these. They sucked. Others who commented on how great that loco is have NOT owned these or actually paid attention to the items OR scale you were talking about (JW...shame.....working on your post count again?). If you don't want my opinion, I suggest you dont ask for them. Next time, post with the title "Look at my really cool locos...and no opinions allowed, just high-5s".....or you can post the pics in the Weekend Photo Fun....no negative comments are allowed there. Second I think maybe you need to read the article a little more closely seeing as it scales out fine for length and wheel base and it's only real short fall is it's height do to the fact it rides high on the trucks. My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. The 2 issues I was talking to you about was mentioned in the review......height and width....I didn't mention anything about length. All in all the review you posted gives it quite a good review I think so calling it a "toy grade peice of doo doo" I think was wrong Actually, the review and the review of Spook show give this a grade of "C". If you are OK with a "C" then good for you. In my little world, a "C" just doesn't cut it. BTW, the Atlas unit you are comparing it to has a rating of an "A". It is scaled properly and have a modern, quality drive.
I gave you my opinion. I owned these. They sucked. Others who commented on how great that loco is have NOT owned these or actually paid attention to the items OR scale you were talking about (JW...shame.....working on your post count again?).
If you don't want my opinion, I suggest you dont ask for them. Next time, post with the title "Look at my really cool locos...and no opinions allowed, just high-5s".....or you can post the pics in the Weekend Photo Fun....no negative comments are allowed there.
My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. The 2 issues I was talking to you about was mentioned in the review......height and width....I didn't mention anything about length.
Actually, the review and the review of Spook show give this a grade of "C". If you are OK with a "C" then good for you. In my little world, a "C" just doesn't cut it. BTW, the Atlas unit you are comparing it to has a rating of an "A". It is scaled properly and have a modern, quality drive.
Not everyone on these forums is going to hold your hand and sing Kumbaya. You could also consider thanking me for showing you a resource that will help you make better purchases in N scale. Also note that asking for opinions or thoughts will give you both sides of the equation. My experience and advice would be to listen to the NEGATIVES as they are more likely to be routed in experience rather than a fuzzy feeling over the "spectrum" name.
Well seeing as the actual grade isn't in the review how would I know what it's actual grade was? To read the review it reads pretty good other than the height issues
galaxy First, Bachmann Spectrum series is highly appreciated and sought after as they are of good runnign and detail. SO you did not "miss" understand anything.
I disagree with the statement that Bachmann Spectrum series is highly appreciated and sought after. Actually this is not the case. I have followed this hobby closely since the late 1970's and have been disappointed with the Bachmann Spectrum line. It was introduced by Bachman around 1989 (or there abouts) to offer a more detailed and higher quality version of their standard "toy" trains. However the Spectrum line hasn't measured up even close to the quality of the truly appreciated and sought after brands like Atlas and KATO, and even Proto 2000 (which was Life Likes premium line). The only Bachmann Spectrum diesels I ever purchased were their HO F40PH's and I was disappointed with them. They sat nearly a scale foot too high, the trucks were too far apart and the pilot looked horrible. Even Walthers Trainline" F40PH looks a good deal better and its Walthers basic line of trains. I returned my Spectrum diesels and never bought anymore after that. The SD45 and F7 were two more Plus or Spectrum diesels which also fell far short of the mark.
Sadly, this hobby often means we buy poor quality engines and learn from the experience. It's happened to me as well so don't feel bad. Just learn and move on. If you can afford to buy better quality, you will soon learn that it is worth it to steer clear of the crude, poor quality products in N scale and HO.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
In HO the Spectrum diesels are hit and miss. I had two GP30's that had big flakes of paint coming off the cab sides, neither had ever been out of the box. The E33 electric was really nice looking, too bad whoever greased the gears at the factory used like a whole quart - even after cleaning it up once including removing the gear covers and blotting out the excess, it STILL leaked grease intot he package. Luckily it did not get on the shell. It looked and ran nice, other than the silly blue headlight.
The Spectrum locos most often touted as excellent pieces are the steam locos in HO. Barring an occasional quality control wart, they seem to be excellent runners once broken in and are nicely detailed. They don;t make anythign I'd need so I don;t have any, but others on here have dozens.
It's a shame the N scale stuff doesn;t measure up. My foray into N scale ended just before the Atlas/Kato diesels came out, and I was finally fed up withthe poor runnign of all the Bachmann locos. The only reliable loco I had was I think an Atlas, not sure who made it before they partnered with Kato. Everythign else, a coupel of Bachmann diesels adn a coupel of steam locos, were nothign but time consumers, adjusting and fiddling and thumping the table unless I ran wide open all the time. Even my cheap train set Tyco HO locos ran better than that, so I scrapped it all and went back to HO. Well not scrapped, the layout is still in my mom's basement, and could probably be made to run again, although I look at it realize how much my skill has improved over more than 30 years later. Ionlyhave one loco left, a Bachmann F9 in Reading green and yellow (noever existed - but in the 70's they didn;t care what roadnames they slapped on stuff). That one used to run, but only at 3/4 to full speed, there was no creeping ability even with a fancy Tech II power pack.