reads like our government in action.
flip
TA462 Lateral-G: TA462: The only reason a plane would be shipped by rail is because it isn't air worthy. It would cost to much to have a planes wings removed and then reattached and the recertified to fly again. sayyyy whaaaat? You're joking, right? Nope. It would be cheaper to fly a plane to it's final destination then it would be to ship it by train. Think about it, you would have to disassemble it so it would fit on a truck. The truck would deliver it to the yard where it would be loaded onto a flat car then loaded back onto a truck to be delivered to its final destination. That's a lot of people involved just to move a plane from point A to point B. It's cheaper to fly it. Once it was put back together it would have to be reinspected to make sure it was air worthy again. What? You think you can just bolt the wings back on and go for a ride? LOL.
Lateral-G: TA462: The only reason a plane would be shipped by rail is because it isn't air worthy. It would cost to much to have a planes wings removed and then reattached and the recertified to fly again. sayyyy whaaaat? You're joking, right?
TA462: The only reason a plane would be shipped by rail is because it isn't air worthy. It would cost to much to have a planes wings removed and then reattached and the recertified to fly again.
The only reason a plane would be shipped by rail is because it isn't air worthy. It would cost to much to have a planes wings removed and then reattached and the recertified to fly again.
sayyyy whaaaat?
You're joking, right?
Nope. It would be cheaper to fly a plane to it's final destination then it would be to ship it by train. Think about it, you would have to disassemble it so it would fit on a truck. The truck would deliver it to the yard where it would be loaded onto a flat car then loaded back onto a truck to be delivered to its final destination. That's a lot of people involved just to move a plane from point A to point B. It's cheaper to fly it. Once it was put back together it would have to be reinspected to make sure it was air worthy again. What? You think you can just bolt the wings back on and go for a ride? LOL.
Well, maybe or maybe not.
It might depend on how far you are taking it and why.
I have not been able to find a railroad freight rate, either now or in 1960, to transport such a load from LA to New York, but based on the known info about the Beechcraft Bonanza 35, it would take one pilot, nearly three days to fly from LA to New York, stopping at least twice to refuel, layover, sleep.
The trip is roughly 3000 miles, the range of the Bonanza 1060 miles, fuel tank hold 80 gallons, around 250 galons for the trip. How much is aviation fuel? The plane has a top speed just over 200 mph, more likely a practical crusing speed (for max fuel mileage) of between 130 and 160.
The flight time would be three 6-8 hour "legs". I don't know what such a pilot would get paid, but it would likely include his return travel expenses. And now the plane has 18 or more additional hours on the engine.
Fuel, pilot, hotels, return air (or train) fare, ground fees at layovers, sounds like about $4,000 to $5,000 in todays money, maybe more.
AND, I admit, I have no idea about the other costs of disassembly, reassembly, etc, but I know a flat car load from LA to NY does not cost $3,000.
So there remains the big question - If I buy a new airplane, how do I get it? Is it only sold for "customer pickup" at the manufacturers air field? Do they have "authorized dealers"? Who might be doing the reassembly and certification?
And, what is the cost of a flat car load from LA to NY?
Sheldon
jwhitten For spite... John
For spite...
John
To create a thread in a forum and see how many pages it goes.......
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Forty Niner jwhitten: Railphotog: Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"? P.S. I don't text mail either........ I suggest Googling the text, as forum censors might take offence if what it means was spelled out here. This has been around a long time, before texting. BOHICA! Yeah, RTFM ! (I suggest you don't look that one up :-) John I read the first three manuals but I just ran out of time before I could "Read The Fourth Manual"!!! Mark ;-] WGAS
jwhitten: Railphotog: Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"? P.S. I don't text mail either........ I suggest Googling the text, as forum censors might take offence if what it means was spelled out here. This has been around a long time, before texting. BOHICA! Yeah, RTFM ! (I suggest you don't look that one up :-) John
Railphotog: Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"? P.S. I don't text mail either........ I suggest Googling the text, as forum censors might take offence if what it means was spelled out here. This has been around a long time, before texting. BOHICA!
Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"? P.S. I don't text mail either........
And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"?
P.S. I don't text mail either........
I suggest Googling the text, as forum censors might take offence if what it means was spelled out here. This has been around a long time, before texting. BOHICA!
Yeah, RTFM !
(I suggest you don't look that one up :-)
I read the first three manuals but I just ran out of time before I could "Read The Fourth Manual"!!!
Mark ;-]
WGAS
Nicely done!
jwhitten Railphotog: Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"? P.S. I don't text mail either........ I suggest Googling the text, as forum censors might take offence if what it means was spelled out here. This has been around a long time, before texting. BOHICA! Yeah, RTFM ! (I suggest you don't look that one up :-) John
steemtrayn Packers#1: Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"? To answer that would require breaking forum rules of no swearing. However, ROFLOL means rolling on the floor laughing out loud. Not much of a jump. Aww, go ahead, tell him. This would be an ideal time to test the limits of the new moderator. DILLIGAF?
Packers#1: Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"? To answer that would require breaking forum rules of no swearing. However, ROFLOL means rolling on the floor laughing out loud. Not much of a jump.
Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"?
To answer that would require breaking forum rules of no swearing. However, ROFLOL means rolling on the floor laughing out loud. Not much of a jump.
Aww, go ahead, tell him. This would be an ideal time to test the limits of the new moderator.
DILLIGAF?
Oh, I'm already quite familiar with the phrase!
Railphotog Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"? P.S. I don't text mail either........ I suggest Googling the text, as forum censors might take offence if what it means was spelled out here. This has been around a long time, before texting. BOHICA!
>> Why would someone ship an airplane by flatcar?
buoyboy The reason that Athearn introduced this car is that in the late 1950's for a year or two, Lionel's HO line was made by Athearn. Lionel, which was just going into their 'missle launcher' phase, came out with a flatcar with an airplane on it in O gauge, along with a flatcar with a cabin cruiser type boat. Apparently Lionel wanted these cars in their HO line and so had Athearn produce them, along with an "Auto-Loader" 50' flatcar and a Virginian rectifier electric (which used the 'GP-9' chassis). It wasn't until about 1958 or '59 that Lionel began producing their own HO trains. I believe that some of the Lionel HO from the mid-'50's was also manufactured by Rivarossi and sold under the Lionel brand name.
The reason that Athearn introduced this car is that in the late 1950's for a year or two, Lionel's HO line was made by Athearn. Lionel, which was just going into their 'missle launcher' phase, came out with a flatcar with an airplane on it in O gauge, along with a flatcar with a cabin cruiser type boat. Apparently Lionel wanted these cars in their HO line and so had Athearn produce them, along with an "Auto-Loader" 50' flatcar and a Virginian rectifier electric (which used the 'GP-9' chassis).
It wasn't until about 1958 or '59 that Lionel began producing their own HO trains. I believe that some of the Lionel HO from the mid-'50's was also manufactured by Rivarossi and sold under the Lionel brand name.
That cabin cruiser is also a popular re-release for Athearn. From a marketing standpoint, you are buying two piees in one here, not only the flatar, but those kids can also play with the plane as well. There will be a company on my layout who ships out those Cabin Cruisers (and other modeartley small yachts) by flatcar, as well as a few other things. One, their location in steep river valley makes Semi traffic nigh impossible.
I understand the recertification part about making sure tey are put on orrectly, but what's the big deal about taking the wings OFF? Yeah, I know they didn't use a tab and slot, but I don't feel like riviting an HO model, and a removeable wing seems like a good idea to me. In fact, I may just have to model a short string of these things as a through train, going to some dealer somewhere.
-Morgan
TA462 The only reason a plane would be shipped by rail is because it isn't air worthy. It would cost to much to have a planes wings removed and then reattached and the recertified to fly again.
I'm not familiar with other states but here in Missouri at the main shops of the National Guard they had a rail line that ran into it and they received almost all of their equipment by "rail", including helicopters for the Air Guard across the Missouri River at the airport.
They built new shops about 15-20 years ago outside of town but it also has a rail siding run into it and I would imagine that they are still receiving everything by rail, thankfully for the rest of us.
So although that Athearn car may be as realistic as the old Giraffe car it's premise may be sound as I'm sure that more than one "new" small aircraft was delivered by rail back years ago and may still be for all I know, really just never gave it much thought until now although I would think that any "new" aircraft would be "crated" not only to protect the load but also for ease of handling.
The Interstate Highway System brought about a lot of changes, not all of them for the better. Maybe the high cost of fuel will put a large percentage of it back on the rails where it belongs.
Mark
Hamltnblue I guess it would also be the same reason they have shark carrying cars http://www.mthtrains.com/content/81-99007
I guess it would also be the same reason they have shark carrying cars
http://www.mthtrains.com/content/81-99007
They have "sharks" that carry cars????? Talk about exploitation!!!!!!!! I wonder if they also carry "grudges"........;-)
BF&D Lots of semi plausible answers - but for me those flatcar airplane loads are in a league with Official US Army Missile Launcher Car and other such toy trains stuff.
Lots of semi plausible answers - but for me those flatcar airplane loads are in a league with Official US Army Missile Launcher Car and other such toy trains stuff.
Missile Launch car the real thing
http://www.themilitarystandard.com/missile/peacekeeper/railcar.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeeper_Rail_Garrison_Car
An earlier proposal
http://books.google.com/books?id=cyYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=rocket+launch+railroad+car&source=bl&ots=pBaYpOPsor&sig=mgKJjp-it8IyUJHnQWhKP2BvFuc&hl=en&ei=oM-DTe2qM4W-sAOQ-f3wAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=rocket%20launch%20railroad%20car&f=false
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Springfield PA
What about things such as Military Scout Planes, they don't have to be recertified to have their wings removed and reattached, come to think of it, neither did the Aero-Car.
trfindley I'm sure others have thought of this question over the past 53 years: http://cgi.ebay.com/Athearn-HO-RTR-40-Flat-w-Blue-Plane-NYC-495334_W0QQitemZ400196105170QQcategoryZ19130QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_ trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D78039407 96617981131
I'm sure others have thought of this question over the past 53 years:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Athearn-HO-RTR-40-Flat-w-Blue-Plane-NYC-495334_W0QQitemZ400196105170QQcategoryZ19130QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_
trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D78039407
96617981131
EDITED BY JWHITTEN: Added some spaces in the URL to let it wrap.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Packers#1 Forty Niner: And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"? To answer that would require breaking forum rules of no swearing. However, ROFLOL means rolling on the floor laughing out loud. Not much of a jump.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
You know, now that I think about it. I seen one on a tow-truck once and for same reason. It was headed to a repair shop. The field it saw at didn't do repair work and wouuldn't let them work on it there. Why? unkown.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
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Maybe at the time there were no trucking lines that where shipping nation wide. I don't know for sure, but I would think that it would have been in the late 60's or early 70's before trucking lines began going coast to coast with regular service.
Can one of the moderators please edit the OP so that it doesn't force the thread over the edge of the screen?
Dan
Because Lionel had the same car in O-gauge? That must be it. I had that car in the 50s, and it was also a Beechcraft Bonanza, notable for the 45-degree angled tail section.
Seriously? I doubt that Beech designed the wings to come off like that. This was not a carrier-based aircraft, after all.
The plane, of course, was safe from train-launced missiles, unless it was located next to the exploding dynamite car. Had one of those too, I did.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Regardless of the reason, I'll bet some where deep in the history of Athearn there is a real life photo of just such a Beechcraft on a flat car.
The dealer/final assembly thing makes sense to me, just like new cars. If I was buying a "new" airplane, I don't think I would want it to have hundreds of hours on it having been flown thousands of miles across the country.
I surely would not pay the "new" car price for a car that had been driven from Detroit to Baltimore. If a car comes with a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, I expect to be the person who puts 35,989 of those miles on it.
Northrop ships the aft fuselage of the F-18 to us in St Louis....they've been doing it for the past 30 years.
Markpierce replied they shipped aircraft to Russia in boxes, they also flew hundreds of fighters and bombers through Canada following the Alaska highway then over to Russia, Edmonton was a major staging area, not all of them made it to Alaska, 3, B-25 or B-26's crashed in one area in the Yukon called "million dollar valley' they are still there.
Why would GM ship an automobile by train to the dealer when they could have somebody drive it there from Detroit??
Wouldn't you for $18.40 plus $3.50 shipping and handling. I would with the price of gas up again.
Maybe someone bought a plane and wasn't a pilot.
You could always use the idea of structual failure on the airframe and the aircraft is being shipped back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement. Just an idea for shipping an aircraft by rail.
Ray