Ok guys here is my two cents, and yes I know what opinions are like.
As a child my Father would take me to the big railyards in San Bernadino Ca. to see the last of the steam era relinquished to pulling switcher duty, and we were there the day they retired the last steamer used in that yard. Ever since I have had a passion for the beauty and grace of these engines.
Now as I start to build my first layout in 40 years, I wish I had the space and the money to be able to realistically run the big steam engines like the BigBoy. Now I have not been completly out of the hobby for the last 40 years, I have been a "collector" buying rolling stock and power units when the price was right at flea markets and garage sales. I must have every billboard boxcar ever released all destined to sit on a shelf or boxed away until the day came when I had the time to build my little empire.
So the powers that be at Athern and Walthers know that there are people like me that have a love for the big steam and want to build that giant layout someday. So they put out those high dollar locomotives targeting this part of OUR hobby, it is what keeps them in bussiness, so that they can produce the other components that we all use on our layouts.
Now if we all want smaller steam and diesel power units then perhaps we need to contact the manufacturers and impress upon them that this is what we want. Just posting here or in other chat rooms and message boards is not enough you have to go directly to the manufacturers and tell them what you want, they will listen if there is enough feed back.
Again this is just my two cents.
Ron:550:0]
I refuse to grow up!!!
A few more thoughts,
Here is a link to a few around here, not all of these are "basement filling" but most are 400 sq ft and larger. Several of these are members of the round Robin I belong to and operate on weekly.
http://home.comcast.net/~Potomac_NMRA/HomePages.html#NWRR
And here is a link to some info on the group I belong to:
http://trainweb.org/harm/index.htm
Check out these pages for photos and track plans of some of these layouts.
One of these, not in our group, but a layout I have seen, fills a 3300 sq ft basement.
Also among the layouts close by that I have visited are Ken McCory and Howard Zane - both large by any measure, but my point is they are not the only ones.
Yes, there is some cooperative help in layout building in our round robin, but it varies from owner to owner and is nothing like a "club". Some people in the group accept lots of help, others not so much. Same is true on the giving help end, some have the time and skills to help, others not so much.
In any case the layouts are still largely the work of their owners - not the group. Example - one of the layouts listed in the link is the layout on which I installed my pushbutton cab control system with Aristo throttles for the owner, other than that project, which he was heavily involved in, his layout, 1200 sq ft or so, is his own work.
Maybe the Mid Atlantic is just model railroad heaven, I don't know, but there are lots of guys with basements full, or nearly full of benchwork and trains.
I didn't even take into account any of the conventional clubs, which there are more than a few, BSME,Severna Park, York PA, and lots more. Many with large fixed layouts. And modular groups as well, but I don't follow any of the clubs too close - not my thing.
My deticated layout space is a little over 800 sq ft, and is only average among the modelers I know who have working layouts or are in process of building a layout.
My minimum radius is 36", so are many of these layouts - or they have an era and a theme that makes 28-30" very large - like modeling a Ma & Pa type line. Among the guys I know pretty well, 30" radius in pretty much the working minimum.
I don't know what going on elsewhere, as it relates to the hobby, I have not traveled outside this region. But around here large model railroads are easy to find.
As for layout styles, they cover the range, but a great many are point to point or, have through or loop staging to simulate point to point operation. Many are walk around, many are multi decked. Some have elaberate dispatching and signal systems, many are DCC, some have highly advanced DC like progressive cab control.
Virtually all the DCC layouts are radio wireless, several of the DC layouts are radio wireless.
And like I said before, if there are 20 more guys with 12 x 12 layouts for every one of these, there are a lot of modelers in this 75 mile radius from my house.
Sheldon
Guys, you're aware I'm sure, that EMD actually lashed four of these monsters together, right? Also that they were an "experimental" engine (thus the "X" configuration) used to test systems used on later editions of their Geeps. So, ummm, let's see, how would that consist look on my 28" radii? I wonder if I could repaint them in GTW orange and blue, after all, it's my layout! Gerry S.
Seems, as if Athearn is joining the ranks of BLI and MTH by turning out "monster" locos which hardly fit an an average layout. Apparently, there are more "collectors" than "serious" model railroaders out there. Now if the make those beasts negotiate an 18" curve, like Marklin does, we´re back to the roots.
Guys, I think you're missing something else here. Look at nearly every picture of the U50. What's behind it? What model did Atheaeren do in BlueBox that could be brought up to satandards and use the DD40X chassis for, the same way Athearn recycled the Turbine chassis into three seperate models? What WAS owned by more than one road?
The DD35 guys. The 40X is undoubtably the bigger seller thanks to having Union Pacific on the sideand their heritage prgram (Which is why I'd pick up a 40X), also that so many are preserved in museums, the average MRR is more than capable of saying "Hey, I saw that when I was in St. Louis. I'd like that one." But all Athearn has to do is toss in a new shell, and the DD chassis has paid for itself, AGAIN. Raise your hand if you model the SP, or like the Demonstrators.
Athearn isn't stoopid guys. They saw a chance and are taking it. Yes, I'd like to see conventional too, but then, I can't compalin cause there's a very good chance I'm gonna get my Paducah.
-Morgan
BRAKIE blownout cylinder: I suspect that those who do belong in 'clubs'..if by clubs we are also including those basement empires that are/or did have a collective involved may only be somewhere in the range of 2-5%..if that. ...and I will bet anyone now that it will be based on a 'flexible' frame...hence, more toy-like in appearance.... I suppose a round robin would fit under club as well as the modular clubs with their wide curves. The round robin groups I have had the pleasure of joining in on the operation was by all definition Godzilla size layouts since all was in large basements with large sweeping curves. I'll stick with 8% being a more realistic figure then John's 2% or your 2-5%..
blownout cylinder: I suspect that those who do belong in 'clubs'..if by clubs we are also including those basement empires that are/or did have a collective involved may only be somewhere in the range of 2-5%..if that. ...and I will bet anyone now that it will be based on a 'flexible' frame...hence, more toy-like in appearance....
I suspect that those who do belong in 'clubs'..if by clubs we are also including those basement empires that are/or did have a collective involved may only be somewhere in the range of 2-5%..if that.
...and I will bet anyone now that it will be based on a 'flexible' frame...hence, more toy-like in appearance....
I suppose a round robin would fit under club as well as the modular clubs with their wide curves.
The round robin groups I have had the pleasure of joining in on the operation was by all definition Godzilla size layouts since all was in large basements with large sweeping curves.
I'll stick with 8% being a more realistic figure then John's 2% or your 2-5%..
megh...I still think it is no more than 5% max......that's my story and I'm sticking to it....ppphhhtttffffppptttt...so there haaarrrumph
As for the frame on this..if they stick to the rigid frame they would have to have a much larger curve fro them..and that will tell on those which do not have as sweeping a curve....
Wonder how many will just become shelf queens then...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
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blownout cylinder BRAKIE: blownout cylinder: I suspect that those who do belong in 'clubs'..if by clubs we are also including those basement empires that are/or did have a collective involved may only be somewhere in the range of 2-5%..if that. ...and I will bet anyone now that it will be based on a 'flexible' frame...hence, more toy-like in appearance.... I suppose a round robin would fit under club as well as the modular clubs with their wide curves. The round robin groups I have had the pleasure of joining in on the operation was by all definition Godzilla size layouts since all was in large basements with large sweeping curves. I'll stick with 8% being a more realistic figure then John's 2% or your 2-5%.. megh...I still think it is no more than 5% max......that's my story and I'm sticking to it....ppphhhtttffffppptttt...so there haaarrrumph As for the frame on this..if they stick to the rigid frame they would have to have a much larger curve fro them..and that will tell on those which do not have as sweeping a curve.... Wonder how many will just become shelf queens then...
BRAKIE: blownout cylinder: I suspect that those who do belong in 'clubs'..if by clubs we are also including those basement empires that are/or did have a collective involved may only be somewhere in the range of 2-5%..if that. ...and I will bet anyone now that it will be based on a 'flexible' frame...hence, more toy-like in appearance.... I suppose a round robin would fit under club as well as the modular clubs with their wide curves. The round robin groups I have had the pleasure of joining in on the operation was by all definition Godzilla size layouts since all was in large basements with large sweeping curves. I'll stick with 8% being a more realistic figure then John's 2% or your 2-5%..
Ok..I'll split the difference and say Godzilla size home layouts only for 5%...
As far as shelf queens..Quite a few I believe and IMHO those that are ran will be operated on Godzilla size home layouts and club and modular layouts.You see a modular club can have up to a 48" curve-that's that largest I recall seeing at a train show.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I wonder how much weight they'll have...maybe some can be used as rail straighteners...
Your point is well taken there CNJ831.
Using the NMRA's 3X formula this thing would require about a 41" radius curve for reliable operation as well as for appearance. I was in a club once with an Onion Specific freak that insisted on running those old non-prototypical DD40s. We had 28" minimum radius curves and those monsters even looked like aitch on those.
If memory serves me correctly the Russkis once built a 4-14-4 or a 2-14-4 or something like that. I don't recall ever having seen a photo of one of those monsters but someone needs to consider offering a model; one of those behemoths could probably even straighten out the curves on most model layouts.
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"Hope and Change' is workin' out great for me! I've got hope for a Social Security raise next January; all I've got in my pockets right now is change.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
sort of along this line?
...as I recall it was called a rail straightener....
megh..came across this one...called a Wopsononock class Ynot 2-4-6-8-10-12....
Notice the drivers under the one tender...wonder how much of a curve that will take....
Railstraightener anyone?
Collectors (for various reasons) have always been a part of the market for model locomotives. I suspect the number of hobbyists with at least one engine on display is rather large. Add to that number, the number of engines that are in storage for that "someday" layout. Just a guess, but I would say that the number of model locomotive owners is at least double the number of operable layouts in existence. And those without layouts love the big engines. Which am I going to display on my mantle or in my display case - a common 2-8-0 or a Big Boy (or Challenger). Same with diesels - I would expect to see a lot more DD-40s on display or for someday than I would switchers.
Result is that the market for smaller engines is no bigger, and may be smaller than the market for large engines. Then factor in the increased profitability of the large engine.
Given that, I see no crime in Athearn producing a DD-40, which they expect to sell, instead of yet another 4 axle diesel - are there any prototype 4 axle diesel models left that had more than a 100 built that haven't been turned into HO models?
And I actually do wish them well with their DD-40s. I won't be buying one, but I hope they sell enough to be encouraged to produce another model of a small engine.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Sorry to differ with this crowd, but I DO plan to buy at least one Athearn DDA40X, and I DO plan to run it (I may have to expand part of my curves to do it!). I also plan to run it on our club's "traveling layout". I admit that most of the time it will be a shelf item. As a UP fan I am constructing a shadow box shelf to display UP's "giants" such as Big Boy, turbines, and a DDA40X.
I agree that it would be GREAT to have some more light steam, etc. Does everyone realize that a nice UP 2-8-2 or a little Harriman 2-8-0 will cost almost as much as the 14" DDA40X? That's one reason we get Big Boys, DDA40X, U50s, Pennsy Duplexes, Cab Forwards, and such animals. People will pony up $400-500 for a "beast" but have a seizure when asked to spend that on a 2-8-0.
binder001 I agree that it would be GREAT to have some more light steam, etc. Does everyone realize that a nice UP 2-8-2 or a little Harriman 2-8-0 will cost almost as much as the 14" DDA40X? That's one reason we get Big Boys, DDA40X, U50s, Pennsy Duplexes, Cab Forwards, and such animals. People will pony up $400-500 for a "beast" but have a seizure when asked to spend that on a 2-8-0.
And? I will not spend the money on the DD40, wich is money I WOULD spend on some nice small steamer of a 2-6-2, or other interesting arrangement.
I don´t care if it is costly (within reason) as long as it has DCC and sound on board!
And the myth that it should be sooo expensive is wiped out by companys like Bachmann and even BLI!
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Sir Madog Seems, as if Athearn is joining the ranks of BLI and MTH by turning out "monster" locos which hardly fit an an average layout. Apparently, there are more "collectors" than "serious" model railroaders out there. Now if the make those beasts negotiate an 18" curve, like Marklin does, we´re back to the roots.
In fact, Ulrich, I'm definitely of the impression, based on the many forums I regularly visit, that serious modelers still outnumber the collectors. However, the buying habits of the two segments are very, very different.
Traditionally (as long as I've been in the hobby), serious modelers in the U.S. bought new items more infrequently and usually only as they actually required them to advance their layouts. They knew that any particular product needed down the road would likely remain available over time. Up until about 1990 items continued in production often for decades. So, there was no need to buy them right now. In contrast, the collector element, who more often than not were basically hobby dabblers, many having no layouts at all and being flush with cash because of it, could rush to purchase any new doohickey that came out. While the typical HO manufacturer was creating models for the actual modeling hobbyists, the collectors fit in well with the brass segment of the hobby for a long time.
However, the model railroading world has turned upside down over the past 10-15 years. Several companies that previously offered brass (or were in the tinplate collectors' field) moved to the high-end plastic/diecast train market, obviously targeting the element in the general hobby closest to their dwindling brass buyers in nature.
The fact that the latest models from BLI, MTH, et al. were commanding prices 3x, or 4x, higher than standard Athearn, MDC, etc., wasn't lost on the older companies. They soon began shifting production more and more toward the high-end collector's market with outlandishly larger locomotives, while increasingly neglecting a large segment of the more frugal, but more serious, hobbyist market.
The advent of the, "produce in limited quantities, sell the run off as quickly as possible and move on to the next big thing" marketing approach targeted the collectors as buyers, not the traditional more serious hobbyists, who required far more modest engines. There has also come to be an air of almost panic among some individuals we see here when some new monstrous loco is announced. They simply must get in their pre-order, often for 2, or 3, or even more, of the item, to roster on their future dream layout, not yet started, of course...and which likely never will be.
CNJ831
CNJ831,
if that´s the way it is, and I tend to agree to you, I find it rather sad, that the majority in our hobby finds so little consideration as to their wishes and needs. True, those bread and butter locos, which are missing in the market, have an abundance of prototypes, but with some effort, it would be possible to find a common denominator which would guarantee a sufficient amount of sales.
As an example, the leading German model railroading magazine conducts a reader survey each year - valuable input for the industry.
First, let me say I like smaller steam engines. I run a few small MDC engines that I've built and they work great on my layout. But if the demand for smaller steam is so great, then why am I seeing Spectrum steamers sitting on the shelf? There are three reasons that I can see: 1. everybody has plenty of these steamers already. 2. They aren't prototypically correct for a modeler's railroad. 3. The demand for this product isn't as high as it would appear to be on this forum. There are a lot of people that do collect engines. I run a lot of engines, but I have some larger engines that I can't currently operate. I plan to in the future but I even if I don't, I don't have to justify my purchase to anyone besides my wife! If this makes me a "collector" and not a real model railroader, then so be it. (Even if I do have a fully sceniced railroad with detailed engines and cars). The bottom line is these companies are in business to make money. If an engine such as a Centennial is a sure thing, then they are not smart businessman if they don't go for it. But I also don't see Athearn just taking the easy way out either. Take a poll on paint schemes and find out where the N&W 13-dip paint scheme comes in. It's usually near the bottom. So, it could be inferred from this that this paint scheme is very unpopular. However, try looking for Athearn SD45's in this scheme or Proto 2000 GP9's, GP18's, and GP30's. They are getting very hard to find. In conclusion, I think this subject makes for interesting conversation, but I think it's self serving to criticize a company because they don't follow the forum-recommended business plan!
Keith Baker
Link to the news of the DD40AX?
I want to compare it to the Bachmann version which is already nicely detailed for ~$100 street.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Put me down as wanting a 40x. The next loco Athearn should make is the BIG 3 unit turbine. That will take sharper curves
Those who want smaller engines there's a GP 9 in the future also. Seriously, I would love to see a UP 2-8-2 or 2-8-0 but it doesn't appear to be in the cards. As someone who's been at this for over 50 years, I can't believe the quality and quantity of the locos offered today and they run beautifully compared to the brass "grinders" that we put up with at premium prices.
Must offer this disclaimer: I am a certified UP nut. What else could I be living in the city where UP headquarters is located?
Sir Madog CNJ831, if that´s the way it is, and I tend to agree to you, I find it rather sad, that the majority in our hobby finds so little consideration as to their wishes and needs. True, those bread and butter locos, which are missing in the market, have an abundance of prototypes, but with some effort, it would be possible to find a common denominator which would guarantee a sufficient amount of sales. As an example, the leading German model railroading magazine conducts a reader survey each year - valuable input for the industry.
I'm not so sure the serious model railroader is a) a majority (at least in the US), and b) not having their desires met for the most part (at least better than in previous decades).
As I alluded to in my earlier post, count the collectors (and many of those are part time collectors and part time serious), and the dreamers, as compared to the number of active layouts. I don't believe, without some evidence to the contrary, that the active layouts with themes being seriously addressed is in the majority.
I note that even Blackstone started with a K-27 for their 1st entry into the market. The Ks are among the biggest of narrow gauge engines used in North America, were pretty much limited ot one prototype, and are not particularly suited for many layouts - yet the models of Ks far outsell models of the much more common narrow gauge 2-8-0s, 2-6-0s, and 4-4-0s.
For a long time, brass fulfilled the dual role (collector and layout) you suggest. But for some like myself, it was always out of range. In the mid-1970s, when I entered the work force on $500 a month take home, an $80 brass locomotive wasn't happening. Today, there is a lot of plastic/die-cast that fulfills the dual role just like brass used to. Bachmann makes plenty of smaller locomotives, as do Atlas, Bowser, Roundhouse, Walters, and even Athearn. BLI has made Mikados in addition to their giant steam. The smaller models don't get the press and buzz that the large ones do - but they exist. Although the regular Bachmann line is panned as low quality, it's far better than the Tyco predecessors, and can generally hold its own against the better die cast and plastic of 40 years ago.
Today's variety of offerings - excluding the giant engiines - is better than in the past because of the easy availability of old stock through markets such as eBay. It's just not as easily seen in the ads in MR.
Keith, the major point you are missing right from the start is that Bachmann has a history of producing multiple runs of their steam models and probably with larger batches than anyone else around. That's the reason their steamers can be found in stock, or up for sale, in volume over time. It's not that things like their 2-8-0 are going wanting. On the other hand, the huge, largely shelf queen, models we increasingly are seeing are generally done as a single run of perhaps a couple of thousand units and that is it. Obviously they will sell out far more quickly to a small consumer base than a total product run of perhaps 10k to 20k of Bachmann 2-8-0's. It is not a reflection of overall demand, it's about overall numbers of product.
Another factor that many here are unaware of, which figures into the current situation, is that from the hobby's inception and for decades thereafter, virtually all the manufacturers were, or had been, actual practicing model railroaders. As such, a great many of them worked at it for the love and betterment of the hobby. They were willing to keep their prices rock bottom to encourage as many others as possible to join in. With the exception of the craftsman kit makers today, all those hobbyist/manufacturers are gone. Replacing them are companies whose only concern is their latest bottom line. I take nothing away from them as businessmen, as I'm sure that they are making a far greater profit margin per unit than Uncle Irv ever did. But what they are at the same time doing to the real hobby is quite distressing.
I understand that in the past, the majority of manufacturers were practicing model railroaders. The prices were low, but the quality was also lower than it is today. This is not intended as a slight to the pioneers, without their efforts, a lot of us would have blocks for trains! But, the fact is, the quality today is better than yesteryears on mass produced items. While these companies' only concern may be the bottom line, they have to produce accurate and detailed models to survive in today's world. Uncle Irv may have made less profit than today's manufacturer's, but the quality of his pieces were also inferior to the pieces made by his company today. (How many DD40's did the B&O have? In fact, how many DD40's were actually built!) If the companies are supposed to make limitless supplies to the customer, then a profit must still be made or they won't last long. This means lowering tooling costs, which means lowering the amount of factory provided detailing. On the other hand, try having a piece custom built. Let's see how expensive that is! Or, look at the cost of detailing an older unit. Look, I wish that there wasn't such a thing as a limited run, I really do. But I don't see it ruining the hobby. I buy what I want when it makes sense for me to. I'm planning on purchasing a Centennial because it fits a future plan of mine. I've always been impressed with the Pennsy's Centipedes, but since they don't fit in my plans, I'll never buy one.
The Pennsy centipedes don't really fit in my plans either but....if I run across a "good deal" on a pair of them I'll buy them just because they're impressive engines and look really great. I can still run them from time to time when the urge strikes me.
Mark
RMR
Wow, this post generated a lot of responses. I haven't read them all but it seems most don't like the idea of yet another large loco.
1. I cannot agree that the quality of locos has improved. I had about 6 new locos I bought last year that needed repairing--an all time RECORD of failures--mostly Athearns.
2. I visited one of my longtime LHS (out of Atlanta) during my trip to the WGH. The guy there asked me if I was going to order the new DD. I had just bought a Bachmann DD from him about 9 months ago, I didn't need another one and certainly not another Athearn fiasco. I want to give Horizon the opportunity to get their quality up before I sink more money on their efforts.
3. I converted that Bachmann DD with a lot of effort to the 6936 with ditch lights, new paint, sound, etc. I am in the process of building/modifying locos to get all the UP heritage fleet(no, not the ACes). That is modeling and model building, not for just display. I am also finishing UP 949 for 2010 with the 645 prime mover and no front door--that can't be bought as far as I know.
4. I chose to build/modify models that I wanted and those of you who want the small steamer can certainly do the same, after all we are model builders(BTW, there are steamers on my build schedule). And with some of the locos recently released, perhaps building our own is the best option. The more I learn about prototypes and modeling the more I realize that mass model builders can almost never win in building the exact prototype you want. Especially steamers which seem so specialized per railroad. And they could change year over year.
5. BTW, my 12 year old son is finishing up an UP SD90MacH--working on for about a year now by the time you include research, identifying and buying the right parts, etc. Again modeling/model building for real.
Richard
I, too, am feeling the sting of the missing "run-of-the-mill" power. The heritage Amtrak P42 in Phase III colors sure looks neat, but then I'd have to actually find a P42 first.
Technically wouldn't this be a "reissue"?? Seems to me Athearn made these for many years, though I'm sure the new one will be much improved.
kbaker329 I understand that in the past, the majority of manufacturers were practicing model railroaders. The prices were low, but the quality was also lower than it is today. This is not intended as a slight to the pioneers, without their efforts, a lot of us would have blocks for trains! But, the fact is, the quality today is better than yesteryears on mass produced items. While these companies' only concern may be the bottom line, they have to produce accurate and detailed models to survive in today's world. Uncle Irv may have made less profit than today's manufacturer's, but the quality of his pieces were also inferior to the pieces made by his company today. (snip)
I understand that in the past, the majority of manufacturers were practicing model railroaders. The prices were low, but the quality was also lower than it is today. This is not intended as a slight to the pioneers, without their efforts, a lot of us would have blocks for trains! But, the fact is, the quality today is better than yesteryears on mass produced items. While these companies' only concern may be the bottom line, they have to produce accurate and detailed models to survive in today's world. Uncle Irv may have made less profit than today's manufacturer's, but the quality of his pieces were also inferior to the pieces made by his company today. (snip)
Keith, of course the latest models are of better overall quality. Technology has made great strides since Uncle Irv introduced the F-7, et al. Every commodity advances over time. TVs, autos, computers, just about any item one wishes to name, are orders of magnitude better today than a decade, two, or three ago. That is simply to be expected.
The fact of the matter is that those vintage plastic F-7s of Irv's were on the cutting edge of technology when they were introduced in '54. Striking leaps in quality have appeared all along through the hobby's history. Simply put, you were getting just as much of your money's worth in the 1950's as you are with today's models, nothing more today than yesterday.
Simply put, you were getting just as much of your money's worth in the 1950's as you are with today's models, nothing more.
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I suppose that depends on who you ask.
Let's not overlook the junkers back in the day nor should we overlook the highly detail brass steamers..
Back in the day we knew what brands to avoid.
BTW..Remember the brass U50? How about some of those long wheel base steamers and the articulated locomotives of the day? How about that Erie Matt Shay?
So,IMHO nothing new about gigantic locomotives other then today we have forums to moan and goan because a model may not fits our needs...
BRAKIE Simply put, you were getting just as much of your money's worth in the 1950's as you are with today's models, nothing more. CNJ831 ------------------------------ BTW..Remember the brass U50? How about some of those long wheel base steamers and the articulated locomotives of the day? How about that Erie Matt Shay? So,IMHO nothing new about gigantic locomotives other then today we have forums to moan and goan because a model may not fits our needs...
Indeed, Larry, we had monster locomotive models available back in the day, too. But the difference was that back then you also had a host of small "modern" steam engines from Mantua, John English, Penn Line, MDC and others, along with a broad selection of small current diesels, to choose from at the same time and with their availability extending over many years. THAT is what makes the situation today decidedly different, particular with regard to steam.
Speaking of collectors models...the current owner of BLI's GG1 molds needs to get moving on doing another run of them. I have not seen a single BLI GG1 for sale at any train show this year!