I have an observation to share, just my opinion, which ties into the world of music......they asked Pavorotti, the Italian opera singer, what was the key to his greatness and success (you can disagree about his greatness but not his success!!), and he said, "When you hear my voice, you know it's ME."
I think that's the big deal about John Allen's layout and Sellios' layout. The quality is there of course, but the key is that when you see a picture of their layouts you KNOW instantly whose layout it is at a glance. No mistaking their layouts for anybody else's.
The instant recognition is only partly about all the publicity; mostly it is about Style. You may like 'em or you may not, but you got to admit those guys got their own unique Style!
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
I have seen many times that the layouts that are works of arts, and as stated above; unmistakenly built by this or that person, often get´s a lot of FLAK because of not being totally prototypical.
But how much compromises don´t we have on our layouts? And what is wrong with artistic expression?
Isn´t it just a case of "sour grapes"? I think that many people would die to have a layout like Sellios, Allen. Furlow , Stewart or Kirk. But they just don´t express it.....
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GraffenI have seen many times that the layouts that are works of arts, and as stated above; unmistakenly built by this or that person, often get´s a lot of FLAK because of not being totally prototypical.
Graffen,
How would you define "FLAK" in this case? Can I admire someone's talents but still not desire to create something exactly like they would do it?
Thomas Kinkade is well-known for his use of light in his paintings. He's a very good and very talented painter, admired by droves of people. I hadn't thought about it before but Kinkade and Sellios are very similar to one another because their "style" is their fingerprint and their calling card.
I can spot a Kinkade almost immediately. The light emanating through the windows in the house or the sunlight reflecting off the leaves of trees screams "Kinkade". I think others could probably do the same with a Sellios-constructed kit. While the talents of both are undeniable, I have NO desire to own a Kinkade painting; nor would I want to model a structure exactly like Sellios.
I totally agree. We all have to compromise somewhat on our layout because we are confined to a certain finite space as our palette. And sometimes these compromises are exhibited through "artistic expression". I do think, however, that there's a difference between selective compression (a "forced" choice) and the degree of weathering (a "stylized" choice) one chooses.
Some folks are more stylized in their approach to layout designing and building (Allen, Furlow, Sellios); while others are more "real world" (Darnaby, Mindheim, Cliff Powers, Soeberg). I can enjoy and learn from them all. However, I gravitate toward and prefer the approach of the latter group over the former. And, even with the latter group, I don't like or would emulate everything they do.
No sour grapes for me, Graffen. I honestly would NOT want a layout like...[fill in the blank]...because the layout would no longer be...an expression of me and what I want to accomplish on my layout.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I don't know.
I just prefer to have mine look the way the northern plains/prairies looked in the late 1970's to late 1980's. And during that period most prairie towns were not blasted with abandonment and severely weathered. Sure, SOME were but NOT ALL.
Even up north of here..in southern Bruce county there are a few abandoned farms...but not entire strings of them...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Graffen I have seen many times that the layouts that are works of arts, and as stated above; unmistakenly built by this or that person, often get´s a lot of FLAK because of not being totally prototypical. But how much compromises don´t we have on our layouts? And what is wrong with artistic expression? Isn´t it just a case of "sour grapes"? I think that many people would die to have a layout like Sellios, Allen. Furlow , Stewart or Kirk. But they just don´t express it.....
Well again, no thank you. At the tender age of 16, I was awarded the privilege of being one of the youngest members of the Severna Park Model Railroad Club in Severna Park, MD. Their layout has been featured many times in Model Railroader and is well known for its very realistic scenery created mostly by Dr. Logan Holtgrew. Logan and other experianced modelers welcomed me because they could see I was mature and serious about the hobby (they generally did not admit teen members without a parent). I worked with Logan on a number of scenic projects on that layout and learned a great deal from him.
I have built a number of layouts since, and am quite happy with my skills. And, while I have moved on from the Severna Park club both geographicly and socially, as of my last visit a few years ago, most of my work on the layout was still intact some 35 years later.
So do a search, pull out some old MR's, and tell me if I am jealous of Sellios, Allen, Furlow, Stewart or Kirk?
I respect them and their skills, except maybe Furlow - I have no use for three dimensional cartoons, but I surely don't envy them and have no interest in "duplicating" any of their styles. Tony Koester, Bill Darnby, Eric Brooman (even thought I don't model the west) - these are guys who build believable, realistic scenery.
I hate taking pictures, but now I think when the new layout gets to the scenery stage I will have to.
Sheldon
PS - I forgot one important name - our own "Dr Wayne", based on the photos he has posted on this forum, gets my vote as being equal to or better than Sellios as far as my eye is concerned.
Perhaps the music WAS coming from the layout. Specifically from Joe's Jazz club (visible a few times but most notably at time 3:36). Jazz era, jazz music?
Then again, probably not.
Volume controls are a wonderful thing.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
I agree with you again Sheldon, I admire Sellios for his abilities but have no desire to have my layout look like a scene from "Cannery Row". I want my layout's scenery to be an expression of how "I" would like to see the world be it real or not.
I grew up in Wisconsin, Fond du Lac to be specific and my uncle lived in a little town outside of Ripon, (Ripon Good Cookies??), anyhow this was in the 1950's before we moved here in 1955 so we still made many trips back there and not once did I ever see the condition of general disrepair that George has depicted on his layout. Doesn't mean I'm right and he's wrong it just means I have never seen anything that looks like that so to me it looks more like what I would expect Calcutta to look like than somewhere in the USA.
Again, no "sour grapes" and nothing taken away from his modeling abilities as they are certainly above average, but just not my "cup of tea". I like Tony Koester's scenery on his old layout and others as Sheldon has mentioned and if I wanted to "copy" anyone's it would probably be one of those but again I want my layout and my scenery to reflect my "vision" of what I see in my mind's eye.
Mark
OK, I finally took the time to watch the video - what was wrong with the music? Seemed era approperate to me. And I like Bluegrass as well.
Just like all the photos, too drab, too weathered, too depressing, too "busy". I've seen a lot of photos of a lot of crusty old steam locos, but more times than not I could read the name on the side.
But now for the real critique - all that work, all that detail - BUT:
The double track mainline trackage is flat in the dirt? no roadbed? Paralel tracks 2.5" or 3" apart and not consistantly spaced? Real railroads don't waste valuable real estate like that. EDIT - I just received March MR and a closer inspection does show some "roadbed" effect - so I'll retract my "flat in the dirt" comment. It ws hard to see on that video.
The passenger cars had scale 2' gaps between the diaphragms? I suppose so they would make it around what appear to be 30" radius curves? Diaphragms that don't touch would be better left off in my opinion.
The video just confirmed what I had previously observed - not my cup of tea.
considering all comments in this line of thought, would this layout be more to most people's liking?
http://www.youtube.com/user/ohiosouthern#p/f/21/0A2h3jZhxiA
Personally, I think Vic Smith is a great, great modeller...no "better" or "worse" than Allen or Sellios or any of the others mentioned here, but is it possible Smith's style is more realistic and less stylistic? and therefore more pleasing?
p.s.....I more or less accidentally found this video tape on the youtube website of the nice red-headed kid in Ohio who does the really good weathering videos
Good ole train sounds and no piano.
Very good video.
I would love to have the room/rooms for a layout like that.
Wadda ya mean I'm old ? Just because I remember gasoline at 9 cents a gallon and those big coal burning steamers.
I thought the music was fitting, classy like the layout. My family says that I'm a musical w**** (lady of the evening). That's why I can justify the XM renewal every year. I can enjoy classical, jazz., blues, bluegrass, Sinatra, clasic rock... whatever mood I'm in. And no commercials.