GraffenRemote server(s), the case of accessing it after, lets say, 10 years? I´ll bet you´d have to pay for it again!
There's already remotely accessed materials or pay to download services allowing free re-downloads. iTunes hit 10 years last week. What are the odds you haven't lost or destroyed your one paper copy with n backup after 10 years?
NittanyLion Graffen: Remote server(s), the case of accessing it after, lets say, 10 years? I´ll bet you´d have to pay for it again! There's already remotely accessed materials or pay to download services allowing free re-downloads. iTunes hit 10 years last week. What are the odds you haven't lost or destroyed your one paper copy with n backup after 10 years?
Graffen: Remote server(s), the case of accessing it after, lets say, 10 years? I´ll bet you´d have to pay for it again!
I don't know about the "odds" but I still have the very first copy of Model Railroader I bought with my own money in 1968, not to mention all the ones earlier than that I have aquired since. I've never lost one.
I also have over 1500 vinyl records including the very first one I ever bought as a teen. Most are in mint condition, only played on top notch HiFi equipment.
Sure, I have "chosen" to get rid of some things in my 53 years, but very rarely have lost or neglected things I spent hard earned money on.
I still have the Atlas track plan book my father bought in 1957 - the year I was born. You may not take care of the things you spend money on but I generally do.
And, except for items I chose to get rid off, I still have the train models from my childhood. I built my first Silver Streak kit at age 13, it's still on my layout 40 years later.
And I have the "signs" downloaded and backed up too. And I would buy my own working copy of the magazine index if they would sell it.
Wealth is not just about how much you earn, it is also about what you do with what you earn.
Sheldon
At one time or another, MR may have to offer the magazine as an e-zine to be read with some kind of an electronic reader, as this is how things seem to develop.
I have to admit that I am an old fashioned guy, who enjoys to retire to his sofa, read the latest paper copy of MR or leaf through some old copies. I hope it´ll stay that way ...
As a production of the Tech Gen, (I'm 19) I'm finding fascinating watching us take the final step into the Star Trek DataPadds. Let's face it, we're there with the smart phones. And I give it a few years, less than 5, when the Kindles and the Phones merge in again.
That said, I've read books on my laptop, and then read books fromt he same series in paper. It'll do, but I'd rather have the book. There's still the water issue to deal with, all I need is to be out reading on a cloudy day and get dripped upon, or a stray bullet from the watering hose in Mom's hand. It can be detrimental to both, but I still can dry out paper with more confidence. And while the Cloud may be indestructible (anyone here recall that cascading failure on the NorthEast powergrid? That could well take out the servers and not be a catastrophic-caused event. Plus, I can;t go visit my favorite librarians to check out a book. To which you observe that with a Kindle, books don't expire, but I'd still rather have the people. The travel concept is a neat one though, I hadn't thought about that.
What's the warranty on a Kindle like, anyway?
-Morgan
Sir Madog At one time or another, MR may have to offer the magazine as an e-zine to be read with some kind of an electronic reader, as this is how things seem to develop. I have to admit that I am an old fashioned guy, who enjoys to retire to his sofa, read the latest paper copy of MR or leaf through some old copies. I hope it´ll stay that way ...
I'm an old fashioned liberal. I embrace progress and am not intimidated by change. I like to retire to my sofa and watch Blu-Ray movies on my 3D television. I do not keep all my old magazines. I read them, learn from them, and then pass them on to others. In the case of MRR, they go to my 12 year old granddaughter.
The Nookcolor from Barnes and Noble allows you to share your books for up to 14 days with other people.
There are always people who fight to stop change, but change happens anyway.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I know this is going to sound darn near sacrilegious but my vision of E-Reader use in the future is that people will own *MANY* of them. They will become ubiquitous and cheap. And you'll be able to buy them (by which I mean "acquire" them-- as I suspect probably that many versions will be *FREE*) in a variety of sizes and formats, each of which will be useful in various situations. Such as for the researcher who may have five or ten of the readers loaded up with different texts and references and piled all around queued up at relevant pages-- much like people do with a pile of books today. When that project is over, the books can be re-tasked (loaded with new reference materials) for the next project.
Similarly, people will have "newspaper" sized E-Readers to get their news on. You won't toss it when you're done, you'll simply reload the frame with the latest news tomorrow. And magazine-sized E-Readers, people may have a few or a dozen, depending on how voraciously they read-- and magazine subscriptions may even come with FREE E-Reader frames.
And those E-Reader devices may not be the "tablet" style device we see now, I predict there will be a shift back toward more traditional *STYLE* of "book" device complete with covers and pages to turn. They will likely still have some fancy features too-- but there are a lot of people who like pages to turn. Or would like to have quick access to a whole article, series of drawings, chapter to read, etc-- and thus might want to have multiple pages loaded at once. E-Paper is already a reality, several of the E-Readers use the technology.
I predict people will have collections of E-Reader *FRAMES* to load up with whatever books, magazines, articles, whatever that are relevant to them in their lives at the moment. The E-Reader frames may be dedicated to a single "book", or else be loaded with a number of "books", or even several devices loaded with the same *set* of books so that several books from the set may be loaded and available for easy reference at one time.
When you consider E-Readers and electronic media in this context-- it takes on a whole different perspective. Rather than being a fancy luxurious item for the people with extra bucks to afford, it finds-- or perhaps even replaces-- "augments" might be the best word-- the niche that "books" currently take in our lives.
If your needs are modest or you live an extremely mobile lifestyle, you might only have one or two E-Reader frames and take your entire media ("book") collection with you. For a person of the "main stream class", you might have a shelf full of E-Reader devices of various types, sizes and pages either pre-loaded with "books" or else able to easily load up whatever is desired from a nearby server. Media storage will not remain in the hands of Amazon and the commercial vendors forever, at some point there will be a shift to people keeping and serving their own collections. It just hasn't happened yet. Give it time.
Finally, people think of E-Readers as being separate from "tablet computers", "video players", etc-- they really are not. They are extremely close cousins and those aspects and functions will become merged together into universal media presentation devices. I predict that you'll be able to listen to music, watch movies, browse the Internet, read magazines and books, all from the same device. And if the trend continues away from personal software ownership, you may also be able to balance your checkbook, shop at Amazon, and plan your model railroad on that device as well.
John
I may be a dinosaur, but I am not ready to go all electronic for reading. I don't like sitting at the computer forever to read through something, and while the Kindle/I pad can be taken with you, I still like a good old fashioned magazine to roll up and carry with me to the Dr.s office to read while waiting.
I suppose I shall someday be foreced into such issues, but until then, gimme an old fashioned paper mag.
I, too, will be assimilated.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
As electronic media continues to develop, someday you'll be able to roll up your kindle or whatever they call the next generation. They alreadyhave flexible TV prototypes. It's only a matter of time until LCD screens and the electronics that power them become flexible like paper.
Springfield PA
E-Paper (Wikipedia):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_paper
(And remember, this industry is still in it's infancy)
Then they'll develop e-paper shredders for disposing non-functional versions. Hmmmm ...Ticker tape parades could take on a whole new look.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage Then they'll develop e-paper shredders for disposing non-functional versions. Hmmmm ...Ticker tape parades could take on a whole new look. Tom
Yes, actually you bring up a good point as E-Paper will surely inevitably get used for sensitive / secret information. And that will present an interesting question for how to get rid of it. Shredding might be an option, and then again it might not be-- burning or grinding into powder might be the answer.
...or using it to line the bottom of the bird cage.
I think the time is coming when there is small carry around device that is our phone, computer, book/magazine reader etc. We're not there yet because we haven't solved the screen problem yet, but I'm sure it will happen. In the meantime we'll have a variety of devices. But I think the Kindle, Nook, etc. will be one of the first specialty devices to be incorporated into and replaced by a small multi function computer.
Eventually I'll have one. But for now I'll stick with print books and magazines. Truth be told I prefer them and probably always will.
Enjoy
Paul
IRONROOSTER But for now I'll stick with print books and magazines. Truth be told I prefer them and probably always will. Enjoy Paul
But for now I'll stick with print books and magazines. Truth be told I prefer them and probably always will.
I hear you there-- I prefer turning pages myself. I don't mind if they are "electronic" pages as long as they look and feel about the same as regular paper pages. I like the idea of being able to carry around one, or perhaps just a few, electronic book "frames" that I could load and reload with articles or books, but like you, I'm old fashioned in that regard and prefer to be able to carry it around, stick it in my back pocket, and I like to turn the pages.
IRONROOSTER I think the time is coming when there is small carry around device that is our phone, computer, book/magazine reader etc. We're not there yet because we haven't solved the screen problem yet, but I'm sure it will happen.
I think the time is coming when there is small carry around device that is our phone, computer, book/magazine reader etc. We're not there yet because we haven't solved the screen problem yet, but I'm sure it will happen.
I agree, just look at how cell phones have progressed. Analysts are saying we will see the death of digital cameras very soon because most people just use their phone to take pictures now. I am still not sold on whether or not its such a great idea to put all these gadget eggs in one basket, but if the price keeps dropping on 1 device to take the place of 3-6, then maybe it isnt such a bad thing.
Store you music at home on vinyl. The record is almost indestructible (within reason, of course) and will last forever. OOPS!
Store your music at home on an 8-track tape. The casette is almost indestructible (within reason, of course) and will last forever. OOPS!
Store your music at home on a casette tape. This new casette is almost indestructible (within reason, of course) and will last forever. OOPS!
Store your music at home on a CD. The CD is almost indestructible (within reason, of course) and will last forever. Well okay, we finally found something that will last forever, probably in a landfill.
NittanyLion tony314: Electronics break,this cloud thing can and probably will fail or lose data at some point. Not really. That's kinda the whole reason it even exists. Its indestructible (within reason of course, a massive nuclear strike could do it) and invulnerable. The data is out there in multiple places you don't need to know about and it would be exceedingly unlikely that all the copies of it would be destroyed or lost.
tony314: Electronics break,this cloud thing can and probably will fail or lose data at some point.
Electronics break,this cloud thing can and probably will fail or lose data at some point.
Not really. That's kinda the whole reason it even exists. Its indestructible (within reason of course, a massive nuclear strike could do it) and invulnerable. The data is out there in multiple places you don't need to know about and it would be exceedingly unlikely that all the copies of it would be destroyed or lost.
Hmmmmmmm. Do I see the start of a new trend?
maxman Store you music at home on vinyl. The record is almost indestructible (within reason, of course) and will last forever. OOPS! Store your music at home on an 8-track tape. The casette is almost indestructible (within reason, of course) and will last forever. OOPS! Store your music at home on a casette tape. This new casette is almost indestructible (within reason, of course) and will last forever. OOPS! Store your music at home on a CD. The CD is almost indestructible (within reason, of course) and will last forever. Well okay, we finally found something that will last forever, probably in a landfill. NittanyLion: tony314: Electronics break,this cloud thing can and probably will fail or lose data at some point. Not really. That's kinda the whole reason it even exists. Its indestructible (within reason of course, a massive nuclear strike could do it) and invulnerable. The data is out there in multiple places you don't need to know about and it would be exceedingly unlikely that all the copies of it would be destroyed or lost. Hmmmmmmm. Do I see the start of a new trend?
NittanyLion: tony314: Electronics break,this cloud thing can and probably will fail or lose data at some point. Not really. That's kinda the whole reason it even exists. Its indestructible (within reason of course, a massive nuclear strike could do it) and invulnerable. The data is out there in multiple places you don't need to know about and it would be exceedingly unlikely that all the copies of it would be destroyed or lost.
No, you're completely wrong. Absolutely and completely in every way. The cloud isn't a thing. Its a concept. Geographically dispersed and physically redundant. Its not a physical storage medium with a clearly defined, finite lifespan. Cloud storage exists independently of the medium its stored on. You cite failings of mediums, not storage concepts. And no one ever claimed any of those mediums were indestructible or infinite.
I like the new format at MRH mag as I find it hard to read mags now (getting older). Computer screens are back lit, meaning brighter without glare and since ones eyes don't focus as well with age, and a screen holds the same relative distance whereas a book changes the distance ever so slightly with each page turn, we compensate, but it is nice not to have to. This eye adjustment is no problem when younger but as you age it dose and this can start affecting people as young as 35.
galaxy I may be a dinosaur, but I am not ready to go all electronic for reading. I don't like sitting at the computer forever to read through something, and while the Kindle/I pad can be taken with you, I still like a good old fashioned magazine to roll up and carry with me to the Dr.s office to read while waiting.
This is a very serious problem that the hobby magazines like MR will have to consider, perhaps in the near future. A large percentage of older hobbyists are not overly enchanted by many aspects of the tech revolution. Were MR to go to a fully electronic version I would venture that they might permanently loose 30%, or more, of their subscriber base! Their declining circulation numbers over the past decade are already very troubling and I'm not sure that they could truly survive such a shot.
At the same time, we've all noticed the shrinking size of the magazine. Just what might be its true size in an electronic version? MRH likes to claim something like 100 pages per e-magazine issue. But look at the size of their "pages" as compared with MR's hardcopy; the former's are only around 1/2 the size/content. Just how much enthusiasm do you think there would really be for an MR of only 50 pages, much of which might be high tech (3-D, video, etc.) ads?
A transition to electronic media certainly could offers a potentially broad range of perks for readers, but at the same time if it resulted in a dramatic loss of subscribers (and thus revenue), would it really be that advantagous for MR and its ilk? The future will prove interesting.
CNJ831
A small question. How much does anyone pay today for online E-mags about Model RR:ing?
I guess that in 99% of the cases, the answer would be; Zero, Zilch and Nada!
As it is now, I guess that MANY publishers that are in the monthly or bi-monthly magazine business, are eating a LOT of ulcer-pills. as they can´t find a viable way to go Electronic WITHOUT losing money! That is a fact, as I know a hobby-mag publisher that has had the ideas of releasing an E-version as well.
It was on the wall a few months ago as we got the "official" Apple stores here in Sweden then, and that the demand for magazines on the web would rise as a result.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
No company says "We are dropping our print version and replacing it with digital". The magazines that are currently available for e-readers are also still published in print. Any transition to only e-books will be a slow evolution. MRH has never had a print edition and therefore is not a valid comparison.
Claims that MRR would lose a big percentage of it's readers if it published in e-format as well are silly. No one will stop buying the print version because it is also available for the e-readers. Millions of books and publications are now available for e-readers. The publishers are actually INCREASING profits by following that path. I see people with e-readers every time I ride the light rail. I almost never see anyone reading anything else except the newspaper.
CNJ831 This is a very serious problem that the hobby magazines like MR will have to consider, perhaps in the near future. A large percentage of older hobbyists are not overly enchanted by many aspects of the tech revolution. Were MR to go to a fully electronic version I would venture that they might permanently loose 30%, or more, of their subscriber base! Their declining circulation numbers over the past decade are already very troubling and I'm not sure that they could truly survive such a shot.
LOL
So true. Same thing in the golf world. Back in November, our country club decided to email the monthly dues statement. That lasted all of two months. The old timers revolted quickly and loudly. The club went back to mailing paper statements. It all depends upon your audience,
Rich
Alton Junction
Graffen A small question. How much does anyone pay today for online E-mags about Model RR:ing? I guess that in 99% of the cases, the answer would be; Zero, Zilch and Nada! As it is now, I guess that MANY publishers that are in the monthly or bi-monthly magazine business, are eating a LOT of ulcer-pills. as they can´t find a viable way to go Electronic WITHOUT losing money! That is a fact, as I know a hobby-mag publisher that has had the ideas of releasing an E-version as well. It was on the wall a few months ago as we got the "official" Apple stores here in Sweden then, and that the demand for magazines on the web would rise as a result.
When the magazines learn how to make the same or more money they will go electronic.
The way MRH does it is through advertising. Download it and look how they do it.
The magazine is much larger and there are click on ads everywhere. They get paid for the advertising as well as every time someone clicks on an add to visit the sponsers site. I can say I've found a couple of new vendors I was unaware of and have clicked on the adds many times out of curiousity and will probably eventually buy as a result.
Phoebe Vet Claims that MRR would lose a big percentage of it's readers if it published in e-format as well are silly. No one will stop buying the print version because it is also available for the e-readers. Millions of books and publications are now available for e-readers. The publishers are actually INCREASING profits by following that path. I see people with e-readers every time I ride the light rail. I almost never see anyone reading anything else except the newspaper.
I think you would be shocked by the actual outcome. Just look at the make-up of the forum associated with MRH, likely highly representative of MRH's readership. It appears made up largely of younger, more tech-savvy, hobbyists. I see relatively few older, or really long-time, hobbyists posting there. To a degree, the same is true here, the average age represented being skewed downward from the actual situation in the hobby. I see this situation dramatically portrayed through my belonging to an Operating Group of older modelers. Among them I am the only member that participates in on-line forums. Likewise, a poll not too long ago of NMRA members in my Region indicated less than 1/2 the membership, a decided percentage of which are close, or currently, senior citizens, were actively using computers. Like it or not, the hobby magazines are kept afloat by their older readership, folks who would not react favorably to a transition to an electronic format. For the most part they tend to resist change (see how many are unwilling to go to DCC) and a shift from hardcopy to electronic format, attended by the not insignificant cost of buying new Kindle-type devices every few years, would not be received favorably.
Folks that are on-line like to think that the entire population is, too. The reality of the situation is decided different and in the case of model railroading, snubbing the wrong readership element could ultimately prove disastrous. MRH does reasonably well being free to readers and supported by its advertisers, but they are a backroom publication with very low overhead. It is highly questionable that a company the size of Kalmbach could ever continue were they to go down the same road.
CNJ:
You totally missed my point. What I said is that when a magazine publisher makes his publication available in e-book format, he does not stop publishing the print version. No reader is snubbed. The e-book version is cheaper to distribute and is usually cheaper for the subscriber as well. The print version would not be discontinued unless print subscribers fall below a certain number and it becomes no longer profitable to print and mail it.
Our local newspaper prints the traditional paper version, a downloadable PDF version that looks exactly like the print version complete with the ads, comics, classifies ads, etc. Both of those require a paid subscription. They also have a web version that contains most of the news and is a totally different format, designed to be read on line. That version is free.
I would expect an e-book version of MRR to be published in either e-pub or PDF format, to be downloaded to an e-book, and look exactly like the print version. I would not expect them to discontinue the printed version, rather they would offer readers a choice.
MRH is an entirely different concept. It is designed from the ground up to be read on a computer.
Dave, I don't know if you have ever been associated with a magazine, or publishing house...I was, for nearly 20 years. While newspapers, being limited and ephemeral in nature, can manage dual forms of publication, applying that situation to a large magazine opens up a rather nasty can of worms. As just one for instance, a significant subscription price would have to remain for both versions. If done otherwise, you will lose readership and advertisers on both ends, each feeling they are being cheated. After seeing some of the high-tech ads in MRH the question of whom among the current advertisers could afford to advertise and who would remain competitive. If you say that those that cannot pay the price need to go elsewhere, you end up seriously damaging the range of products available to the hobbyist. Similarly, would the electronic version end up advertising to the wealthy dabbler, while the hardcopy version favored traditional modelers? Think of the uproar there! I can see a list of problems that goes on and on.
A lot of magazines seem to disagree with you.
https://www.emagazines.com/
Check out the numerous digital subscriptions that are available.
NittanyLion No, you're completely wrong. Absolutely and completely in every way. The cloud isn't a thing. Its a concept. Geographically dispersed and physically redundant. Its not a physical storage medium with a clearly defined, finite lifespan. Cloud storage exists independently of the medium its stored on.
No, you're completely wrong. Absolutely and completely in every way. The cloud isn't a thing. Its a concept. Geographically dispersed and physically redundant. Its not a physical storage medium with a clearly defined, finite lifespan. Cloud storage exists independently of the medium its stored on.
So, you're saying its vaporware?
JoeinPA Phoebe Vet: Interesting idea. The publishing industry is heading in that direction. I don't own one yet, but in the short term I could read it on my laptop. Have you tried MRH yet to see how well you like reading an MR magazine on a computer screen? Joe
Phoebe Vet: Interesting idea. The publishing industry is heading in that direction. I don't own one yet, but in the short term I could read it on my laptop.
Interesting idea.
The publishing industry is heading in that direction. I don't own one yet, but in the short term I could read it on my laptop.
Have you tried MRH yet to see how well you like reading an MR magazine on a computer screen? Joe
Reading on a Kindle is COMPLETELY unique. It is NOT like reading a computer screen. It looks and feels very much like a paper back book. It is 1/4 pound and it's battery last a month between recharges.
However it lacks color and it's grey scale is questionable.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I read MRH, but given a choice I still prefer paper. And I don't mind storing magazines and books one bit - they work without electricity. I thought to save the planet we need to use less energy? How many KWH will I use once I have read an electronic version as many times as I have read some of my hard copies? I Have MR and RMC back to the early 50's and re-read them constantly and am always researching projects. Sheldon
I read MRH, but given a choice I still prefer paper. And I don't mind storing magazines and books one bit - they work without electricity. I thought to save the planet we need to use less energy? How many KWH will I use once I have read an electronic version as many times as I have read some of my hard copies? I Have MR and RMC back to the early 50's and re-read them constantly and am always researching projects.
How many gallons of water will you pollute with chemicals to make paper? (Answer: 2500->6000 gallons/ton) How much electricity and fossile fuels does it take to cut down trees, grind them up and process them, and then ship them to the store?
Kindles run with 1 charge that last over a month. You can even buy solar cells to charge them if you are that worried about it.
You won't ever worry about storage or having to misplace them, or them gettings bent or wet.
You can also do keyword searches. And if you find a passage you like, you can highlight it, keep it in notes, bookmark it, then share it optionally on the web with others via facebook or twitter.