Reliability

[bnsfkline]

This is a poll about what you think is the most relaible Model locomotive in model railroading, Pulling power and smoothness of operation is the most important factor in your decision

[orsonroy]

Believe it or not, THE single most reliable engines in HO scale are old Mantua/Tyco steam engines. They're indestructable. I've got some that were built in the 1950s, that still run with only a little oiling once a year. I've got three of my father's engines that he built in the mid-1960s! And they'll pull the bumper off an old Chevy.

Admittedly they're all freelance engines, and they're slow speed control isn't asgood as an engine with a can motor and gear tower, but if you buy a few, you'll DEFINITELY get a lifetime's worth of use out of them!

I'd probably rank Athearn Blue Box as the most reliable HO diesels on the market.

[jsoderq]

Reliability is operation over a long period of time - think 200,000 miles on your car. There are more old Athearn locos out there than anything else. Is the new technology better? yes, but more reliable ? think of all the posts you see about problems. Some BLI dont even run out of the box new. LL gp-38 had problems and had to be redone. Bachmann still hasn't built an outstanding diesel.Etc.

[Anonymous]

While any maker can have a lemon, the terms "reliable" and "smooth" can only describe KATO locos as a rule.

Atlas would be in second place (if detail is thrown in, Atlas comes out on top).

Athearns might be "reliable", but "smooth" ???
Not any of mine !!!
In fact, I would not choose the term "reliable" for them either - I had to hard-wire my blue box SD40-2 to get it to run again, and will get around to doing this to all my blue box locos to make them "reliable".

[michealfarley]

I don't think "reliability", "pulling power", and "smoothness" have anything to do with each other. In my opinion, there are three different answers.

Reliability: Athearn. Hands down. They are simple, easy to maintain, dissassemble, repair. They will always work. No circuit board to short-out or melt. If you remove the metal clip and hard-wire, they are indestructable.

Pulling Power: Proto 2000 E series. They'll pull anything you throw behind them. The weight nearly fills the cowl. Also, older Hobbytown drives with Cary metal shells. Talk about weight on the drivers!

Smoothness: Atlas Classic/Master series. Very similar if not the same drive train. You simply cannot hear them. They have terrific slow-speed control. Also, my new P1K RS11's. Fantastic slow-speed and smoothness.

[Anonymous]

I was given a child's F unit trainset that had a locomotive driven by a single pittman motor and two gears to turn the wheels on the truck below. I think I ran it some 20 years. The motor finally burned the brushes and does not "turn over" anymore but 20 years around the loop usually at top speed was severe service.

The other engine I could rely on derailing was a tyco GP-20. The power truck in the front generated so much torque that it will derail. I would get so mad at it and run it backwards long end first to get a few more cars on the train. Finally it died under a 2 pound block taped to the hood in a attempt to prevent derailments.

All of my engines are a mix of steam and desiel and they have not failed on me. But again, they do not run much yet. Because of cats I keep in boxes until it's time to run em.

[Anonymous]

I think some of walthers engines run very smooth and have a good amount of pulling power but they arnt the best detailed

[Fergmiester]

Though I have been impressed by both of my latest Rivarossi aquisitions (FEF-3/Allegheny) they have not been been without minor problems. Where as my Life Like Berkshire has been very reliable and runs "super smooth".

The real test will be to see where these engines are, in 5, 10 and 15 years time.

Fergie

[ClinchValleySD40]

Kato. No one whimper of trouble, just quiet smooth running.

[Don Gibson]

I'm going to try and make a FAIR assesment:

KATO DRIVES took over 17 years ago and set new standards in ATLAS and STEWART products..
STEWART DRIVES are KATO derived, and equal.
ATLAS has done a fabulous job of marketing some pretty slick engines made by various factories - some better than others.
PROTO POWEWEST has taken the Athearn drive to new heights. Will match ANYTHING out there ,
Older PROTO 2000 COPIED the Athearn drive - faults and all - added lights and detail. Now used for PROTO 1000.
Blue Box ATHEARN with overly loose tolerances doesn't match ANY of the above, but runs - Popularity was: CHEAPER than the competition, availability, and SIMPLE assembly. Most bought at $10 and $15. Now discontinued.

ATHEARN RTR and GENESIS are new 'improved' drives. The jury is still out. Prices are competative but Quality Control is still a problem.

I know that you are looking for BRAND superiority but in truth, the $100 locomotives and $70 locomotives compete at different levels, regardless of Brand. I have some of ALL the above.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by michealfarley


Reliability: Athearn. If you remove the metal clip and hard-wire .....

But Micheal, my point is that you have to make alterations to the Athearn BBs to MAKE them reliable - they are NOT that way out of the box, like most of the Katos !!!

The main exception was the Kato SD40-2s with their poor pick-up design (which Kato doesn't use any more, for good reasons - it was as bad as Athearn's stupid metal strip!).

[Anonymous]

It varies. In my experience there are good and bad locos in every line. I have Athearn locos that are superb slow runners (my best BB is an SD9). Equally I have Athearn locos that are something of a disappointment - my Dash 9s are nothing like as good at slow speed running and are far noisier. There are some surprise good locos as well. Bachmann's latest GP40/GP50s with 8-wheel drive are, in my experience, excellent. The only thing missing in my opinion is flywheels, as the drive train is otherwise identical to my Walthers Dash 8-40B (another excellent loco).

I've not tried Genesis, Kato, or Atlas locos yet - very tempted by one of the new Atlas SD24s though, so I might well buy one of these to add to my "premier" fleet of more expensive locos (all P1K at the moment). Also considering one of the latest Bachmann Niagaras, as they're "a lot of metal for the money" and look very nice - any opinions on their running qualities? I like the idea of one or two big steamers to run in my museum's collection and the Niagara fits the bill, so long as it runs reasonably.

[Anonymous]

I operate older steam locomotive mechanisms from Mantua, Varney, MDC and Bower. The newest mechanism I own is over 25 years old. I find these old mechanisms to be very smooth operating, very durable and very sure-footed. Because they are diecast, they place plenty of weight on the drivers and pull like the proverbial tank. Rebuilding the superstructures and detailing them so they are exact/very close copies of prototype loco's bring them to a higher level of detail than is currently available in the marketplace. When friends bring their recent, high zoot locomotives to operate on the layout it is at once apparent the older mechanisms are smoother and pull better. The old locomotives are absolutely reliable in every sense. The 1953 Mantua Mike mechanism finally needed regearing and a new motor this year, not bad for a 51 year
old.

Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

I'm going to try and make a FAIR assesment:

KATO DRIVES took over 17 years ago and set new standards in ATLAS and STEWART products..
STEWART DRIVES are KATO derived, and equal.
ATLAS has done a fabulous job of marketing some pretty slick engines made by various factories - some better than others.
PROTO POWEWEST has taken the Athearn drive to new heights. Will match ANYTHING out there ,
Older PROTO 2000 COPIED the Athearn drive - faults and all - added lights and detail. Now used for PROTO 1000.
Blue Box ATHEARN with overly loose tolerances doesn't match ANY of the above, but runs - Popularity was: CHEAPER than the competition, availability, and SIMPLE assembly. Most bought at $10 and $15. Now discontinued.

ATHEARN RTR and GENESIS are new 'improved' drives. The jury is still out. Prices are competative but Quality Control is still a problem.

I know that you are looking for BRAND superiority but in truth, the $100 locomotives and $70 locomotives compete at different levels, regardless of Brand. I have some of ALL the above.

Ohhhh Sooooooo True!!!!!!!!!!![:D]

[Anonymous]

Something that hasn't been considered here yet is there is a distinct difference between steam and deisel models.

For diesels I'd go along with Atlas and Kato being pretty difficult to beat (my Atlas Classic RS-3s are as smooth as silk), but they don't make steamers (at least not in HO scale). Proto 2K seem a bit more variable with some good models and some less so (like others I rate the E series very highly). Bachman's deisels without exception in my experience are poor runners.

Unfortunately, steam locos seem to vary much more between individual models. Of the models that are currently available Bachman seem to be the pick of the crop - their 2-8-0 is an excellent performer and very reliable right out the box , so is their Shay. However, I don't rate their Ten-wheeler (no pulling power), or 0-6-0T (gear housing fouls Kadee magnets and some pointwork) and I had reliability problems with the USRA Heavy Mountain.

Broadway Limited (or my J1e at any rate) are not 100% relaible in terms of electronics and it doesn't appreciate even slightly poor trackwork. I've not tried any of their more recent articulateds like the N&W A class or SP cab forward.

Unlike some others here I don't rate MDC as very reliable; I have one ten-wheeler which runs OK - but took some work to get it that way. I've had no end of problems with the HOn3 2-8-0s and Shays (of various descripitions) - the most common fault it the nylon gears shredding or splitting. At least they are reasonably cheap.

The Athearn Genesis 2-8-2 is however probably the most disappointing loco I've ever owned. It looks pretty good but is expensive, can't pull hardly anything and runs appallingly[:(].

James

[BRAKIE]

I got to say for long term reliability the Athearn Blue Box..Those units are like a Timex watch..The will take a beating and keep right on ticking.

[Anonymous]

Since I model 1999, I can't say anything about steamers.

All of my Kato engines run well, require minimal maintenance, and can pull a reasonable number of cars. I'm waiting with breathless anticipation for Kato to release their AC4400CW sometime this month.

I had a couple of Athearn Dash-9s that were so noisy I turned one into a dummy loco and used the other for parts for various kitbashing products. However, I like my Athearn SD70MACs.

My Atlas 8-40B required some work initially, but now it's a good, smooth, reliable engine. I'm going to get a couple more when the budget allows.

[michealfarley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey

QUOTE: Originally posted by michealfarley


Reliability: Athearn. If you remove the metal clip and hard-wire .....

But Micheal, my point is that you have to make alterations to the Athearn BBs to MAKE them reliable - they are NOT that way out of the box, like most of the Katos !!!

Well, the question wasn't "What locomotive can you take out of the box, slap on the track, and watch it run forever? Who doesn't replace the clip with wire? I'll bet you took the plastic coupler off the Kato and put a Kadee on. How is that different? It's still modification.

Does the prototype get it's locomotives from EMD or GE, and expect them to run forever off the shop floor? Of course not. The question was simple....."Reliability". Nothing you own is going to be reliable if you don't maintain it. My Athearns are reliable because I maintain them. My club has worn Kato motors down to where the brushes are gone. I mean the brush spring is rubbing on commutator. My club has stripped gears out of Kato-powered Stewart F-units. Never happens to an Athearn. I've got some pushing 20 years. All run well........because they are maintained.

[Anonymous]

I'll take an Atlas Loco anyday!

[Anonymous]

My only real long, long term experience is with Marklin. I have the very first loco I ever got 40 years ago and it still runs. Quality and reliability. Now if I could just do something about those flanges. I don't run Marklin anymore, but I do miss the craftsmanship.

Guy

[CP5415]

Kato this, Atlas that. I agree that they are excellent models but...

Athearn blue box are still the best bang for the buck right out of the box!!!

Just my 2 cents.

Gordon

[Nieuweboer]

As far as smoothness is concerned I go for Kato. Atlas and Kato are in the same league when we're discussing pulling power. But if reliability is included Athearn is my choice. Maybe in 20 years (I hope to live that many years more) the others will prove to be as reliable as Athearn. I have some first generation Atlasses from the sixties manuafctured by Roco that still perform splendidly. One special advantage of "old" Athearn BB's is their sim ple construction. I anything goes wrong it generally is quite easy to remedy and they are so sturdy that even if handled a bit roughly there is no harm done.

[Anonymous]

Well I have a mixed roster on my layout.

3 IHC steamers.
1 IHC SD-35
1 Atlas SD-35
1 Athearn GP-35
2 Athearn heavy F units
1 Stewart F Unit set
1 P2K BL-2
1 P2K SW 1200
1 Athearn SW 1500
1 Walthers GP 38-2
1 Bachmann Spectrum GP-30
1 bachmann Spectrum Fairbanks Morse


Of all of these the Atlas wins hands down for smoothness and quietness. However if you breathe on it to much the details will break.

The IHC's run smooth as glass but have some noise issues.

The Walthers absolutely refuses to run slow, and is only slightly less noisy than the Athearns.

The Bachmann's both run great but are noisy

Of the P2K's the BL-2 is currently awaiting a new motor, but the switcher runs nice. Same problem as Atlas with the fragile details.

All of the Athearns are noisy as heck, but they run reliably, the main problem is they require much more voltage to get them moving than all the others.

The Stewart probably runs the quietest second to the Atlas, and it is a fantastic runner as well. I can creep this thing on the layout with barely any throttle at all. The only one that beats it is the Atlas.

So all in all, I would say that in my fleet Atlas wins. I do not own any Kato units no do I plan to buy any due to the price. For me the Atlas units are my best bang for the buck as far as detail and reliability.

[Anonymous]

For reliability: Athearn blue-box, hands down. I went through several brands when first starting in HO modelling--Bachmann, Life-like (both early versions), Model power and Athearn--the latter was the only brand that lasted. My locomotive roster is now 90% Athearn.

[twhite]

I run 100% steam, a lot of brass. So I tinker. I found out that PFM is noisy, but if you replace it with a can motor, it runs like a Swiss watch. Akane (especially the Articulateds) will pull the paint off the wall ALONG with anything you can hook up behind them. Some of my 1980's brass (Sunset, Key, etc) run wonderfully well IF YOU REBALANCE THE WEIGHT IN THE BOILER. I think my worst running brass loco is an old Hallmark MOPAC 4-6-2, but it looks so darned handsome that I run it anyway. Of the current steam available, I've had good luck with Bachmann Spectrum--especially their 2-8-0 and the Proto 2000 USRA 2-8-8-2, even though the mallet doesn't pull like I hoped it would. Rivarossi's Allegheny is smooth and quiet, and a real puller even without the traction tires (yes, folks, it's true, it's true). I've got some BLI's and so far am very satisfied with them, though I keep wondering why their Paragon locos don't have sprung drivers while their lower-priced Powerhouse series does. Their J-1 has caused me to re-lay some track spots that other locomotives ignored, but the result has been that the other locomotives run smoother over those spots now, anyway. So I guess it all works out. But with the newer steam, as someone else in the forum stated, the test will be in how they work 5, 10 or 15 years from now. Right now, I'm a happy camper.

[Anonymous]

atlas has always been the most reliable for me, and very good pullers

[Darth Santa Fe]

I say Bachmann Spectrum diesels are the most reliable. I have 3 and they've developed less problems than any other brand of engine I own. Even my Athearns.[:)]

[TrainFreak409]

I have had great success with all of my Bachmann, Spectrum and otherwise. But then again, I haven't had any real problems with any of my locomotives, so I can't make a real call.

[Anonymous]

There are several categories of reliability:

Takes a lickin' but keeps on ticking reliability: Athearn Blue Box followed closely by Mantua. I've had blue boxes which have taken the dive from the layout to the basement floor that kept on running and no one was the wiser. Mantua's are powerful.

Smooth running at low speeds: Atlas. (And they look good doing it.)

[cspmo]

I don't own any Bachman Spectrum,Overland Models, Lionel HO, Rivarossi, Athearn Blue Box, IHC, or Mix of All so I can't comment on those. Atlas & Kato are the most reliable