Being 15 years old i can see how our culter can make MR seem "retarded" But i feel that if their are modelers (please forgive me if thats spelled wrong) with lil kids then their will be some kids in the hobby later on in life.
CNJ831Where is the comparable exposure/experiences for kids, or even adults, today? Simply put, it no longer exists for the average juvenile or teen and is extremely limited for adults who aren't old enough to recall having Lionels in their youth. The Internet is an absolute non-starter as an exposure media to those unfamiliar with the hobby and with the disappearance of hobby shops and the extremely limited use of the rails by the public outside a few very large urban areas, the only exposure to real trains average joe public gets is seeing a train wreck on the 6 o'clock news, or being highly inconvenienced by a long train at a RR crossing. These are hardly situations that promote model railroading
The internet has only had a slight impact in terms of this hobby. Most of us who use the internet have been exposed to real trains in our childhood. My own background we lived in Woodstock ON with our backyard literally facing the rear of the Ralston Purina feedmills and the CN doubleman through there. Just to the west of us we had the Carew Jtn with the CP track to Ingersoll and the Beachville Limestone quarries and the Eureka Foundaries of Kelsey Hayes in the northwest part of Woodstock. Every place I went to had the crossings with either of them. I have somewhere in my house a series of pictures I took from the footbridge over the CN main of the last steam engines--still doing excursions or being hauled elsewhere and the first generation diesels that became part oof my life. Really now. How many of the younger kids today have that going on now? Huge areas no longer have the trains going through them. At best more seen as a nuisence because we are now slaves to the clock. Even the virtual reality versions of trains are not really capturing anyones hearts--
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Let's be both completely honest and realistic here for a moment. The key factor to the question at hand is where can/does a younger person get his initial exposure to the world of model railroading today? The very reason the hobby flourished as it did in the past was youths' almost universal exposure to real and toy trains between the late 1940's and the very early 1960's...as well as the direct association of toy trains with the Christmas holidays.
During the period in question there were countless public model train displays/open houses held by many times the number of model railroad clubs one sees today. Visiting such displays was often an annual family event. At Christmas time, every department store of any size had Lionel, or Flyer, trains as part of their holiday window display, to say nothing of the layout that usually was present in their toy department. Every community, large or small, had its hobby shop(s) where kids would come to purchase plastic car, plane, or boat models and would sooner or later notice the operating O or HO layout on display. And, at least up through the mid 1950's and the maturing of the interstate highway system and ultimately jet air travel, rail was the way most families travelled if they were going any distance.
Where is the comparable exposure/experiences for kids, or even adults, today? Simply put, it no longer exists for the average juvenile or teen and is extremely limited for adults who aren't old enough to recall having Lionels in their youth.
The Internet is an absolute non-starter as an exposure media to those unfamiliar with the hobby and with the disappearance of hobby shops; the evolution of Lionel trains from a children's toy to an adult collectible; the extremely limited use of the rails by the public outside a few very large urban areas, the only exposure to trains the average joe public gets is seeing a train wreck on the 6 o'clock news, or being highly inconvenienced by a long train at a RR crossing. These are hardly situations that would promote an interest in model railroading. And this doesn't even begin to touch on the vast degree of social changes that have taken place in society (particularly where youths are concerned) over the past few decades.
Exposing your own children to your hobby is a fine idea and we all do it, but considering that probably no more than one in ten of them might just pick up the hobby again as adults, it really isn't very productive, or promising...although perhaps the only measure left available for promoting our hobby.
CNJ831
That's awesome, Ricky and I don't think you're bragging, just a happy model railroader. I have a 2-year-old boy and just got back into model railroading with the hopes of getting him into it and it amazes me how easy it is. I have been quizzing him on the terms for engines (as I relearn them) and the knowledge I have of rolling stock. He's 2 years old, but he can identify a Gondola (among others) and tell you basically what its function is. Thomas the Tank has helped me tremendously as well. I call it his "gateway drug" into the train world.
I'm hoping that when I am finished with my layout, I can get my friends' children into trains as well.
Although I am a train buff for almost all of my life, I failed to attract my son to the hobby. When he turned 11, he discovered the world of computers and has stayed with it ever since. At first, it was those computer games parents love, but he moved on to more complex (and better) things. He has just got his bachelor´s degree in computer engineering science and is no going full steam ahead on his master´s degree.
Our generation grew up with trains. Visiting distant family meant taking the train - air travel was just too expensive. Trains were very much a part of our day to day life, so it was fairly easy to develop an interest in trains and model trains. Today, trains in the US are not as apparent as they used to be. There is a whole generation, who has never taken a train ride. How can you develop an interest in something you don´t know and you don´t see?
Here in Germany, trains are still a common form of transport. Students ride a train to go to school, people commute to work by train. Interest in trains is still strong, also among younger people, although not to the extent it used to be. Model railroading is a hobby, which is very well received in our society, and, from what I gathered in this forum, the number of active hobbyist may even be larger than in the US. We even have a weekly TV show about model trains!
It is my guess, that the situation of the hobby in the US will change with train transport becoming more of a factor in social life again. Seeing some of the younger people´s model work here, I am not worried about the next generation!
If you can read this... thank a teacher. If you are reading this in english... thank a veteran
When in doubt. grab a hammer.
If it moves and isn't supposed to, get a hammer
If it doesn't move and is supposed to, get a hammer
If it's broken, get a hammer
If it can't be fixed with a hammer... DUCK TAPE!
tstageWhy can't the Internet make MRRing available to them; like the LHS has to current and older generations?
Because they have to know what it is before they can look for it in the internet. An LHS is there, all the time. And if it's in a good business location, it will present itself to someone who will go "what's that?" and go inside to learn the secrets of the universe.
Me? I'm a fresh-out Graduate. I can't attest to a 3.9, but I did well in High School. Graduated Core40 plus Acedemic Honors (Means I R Smrt and took sum college classes) with NHS, Choir, numerous Musical/Plays, I managed Swimming, Track, Cross Country teams, (even built models during meets when I had nothing to do) I come highly recommended, and all while modelling trains and having to bury a father. (Which is not fun, but it makes everything else REAL hard REAL fast). I'm not worried about Model Railroading going away, or not having a next generation.
I also don't have texting on my phone, I'm driving a Pontiac 6000, 1990ed., and have aspirations of driving it into the ground, putting the wheels back on, and driving it until they fall off again. If it goes like Dad's S10 did, I figure I've still got another 70K miles or so with good care, I hope, the 90s were good for exceeding 200k.
-Morgan
My husband and I are 27 and got into the hobby when we started running out of things to do together. As luck would have it, there was a MRR convention in town and we loved that others were very helpful and willing to give us advice. We visited the local hobby shops which were very helpful as well and subscribed to MRR magazine. I think that there are a few things that keep youngsters away from Model Railroading:
1. Lack of knowledge of the hobby.
2. Money
3. Space
4. If your parents weren't into it and/or you have no knowledge of construction/handy work.
5. It can be intimidating when just starting!
We have tried to get our friends interested but no luck so far. We are also trying to get my grandfather interested. He seems like he would get into diaramas but not modeling.
Hopefully by realizing the above issues we can all work together and do what we can to involve our friends and neigbors to save our hobby!
I am also a younger modeler, being 22 and having just graduated college with a degree in engineering. In grade school I was pretty active building 2 4x8s and learnign on the fly. Through HS and college I dabled until the last month or so of college, when I began really getting back into it. Right now I'm working on a 4x4 RR that I am using as a refresher/test bed for stuff and techniques I wanna try.
I agree that teens and young adults today take on a lot of activities and tend to overload themselves. I myself commuted an hour each way to college for 3 years, played 4 years of D3 college football, had 2 internships, and was a full-time student, all while dabling in in the hobby. I think the teen years may be a bad judge of younger interest in the hobby, since so many teens have so many interests.
The real test is when they get to 21, 22 when they graduate college and have more time to devote to the hobby. Now that I have graduated and am working full-time, I spend 2-3 hours a night doing projects, whatever they may be. Personally, I think having those years doing other things helped me realize that modeling was my release and what I liked about it. Since I got back into it heavily, the level of quality of my modeling and scenery has gotten 15 times better than before.
I don't think younger interest is dwindling, it just takes time for teens and kids to realize that they enjoy modeling more than other activities. Yeah the technosavvy is a part of it, But its not just teens that do it. Hell what are we doing right now? Still it takes years of experience and learning in the hobby to realize that nothing beats the LHS. I spend an hour and a half friday talking with the owner of my LHS about the Boston and Albany line and the various sights along the line. He gave me a hand-drawn map of all the old station locations and best photo spots. That is something that you can only appreciate with experience and learning. Hopefully the teens and kids will learn and take advantage of the LHS's and knowledge of the elders of the hobby.
Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.
We boomers knew life without TV, stereos, and computers when print was still the major player in dispensing entertainment and information. The last 2 (maybe 3) generations have progressed away from those channels. Even early adopter boomers have demonstrated a willingness to migrate away from those historic sources.
From a business perspective, If you are ignoring the Internet and all of its immediate and fluid flow of information, you are ignoring reality. It's already here.
You can only do so much in involving your child or grandchild in model railroading. It requires a different bait to hiik them on their terms. They will find their own sources of information that feeds their fascination just as we did via magazines.
Only theirs will be digital and immediate. If you are in the periodical publishing business and not already developing a replacement strategy for your magazines (or a the very least, an Internet compliment/alternative), you may have already missed several younger generations.
I am the only teenager in my community I know of who has any kind of MRR. I enjoy it, but I can see how it could get pushed aside: this year, I took part in the Spring musical, the Fall play, speech team, math team, NHS, all while maintaining a 3.9 gpa. I have very little free time, but most of it is spent working on my layout.
MadSinger
I gave my kids trains of their own. But I also let them use my tools for woodworking projects. My middle son borrowed my tools for working on his cars. I paid for musical instrument rentals when they wanted to take band in school, private guitar lessons for my youngest when he wanted to do that. And let them practice at home!!! - a real trial when my oldest was playing the tuba. I think getting kids involved in activities that develop skills is a good thing. Later in life they may get interested in trains or not, but at least they had something besides the TV growing up.
Enjoy
Paul
I don't have kids either. I do have a friend whose 23 y/o and 18 y/o are bleeding him and his wife dry. The 23 can't pay her rent on her own. The 18 wrecked his car {mom and Dad bought for him} then he expects them to buy him another one cuz "how else am I supposed to get to work at the crummy job you made me get to pay my part of the $600 monthly cell phone bill for all 4 of us when I dropped out of college cuz I couldn't hack it??". My friend only uses his cell for emergencies. The wife uses it more. SHe thinks they should do that for the kids cuz, after all, "they are our kids and you should do the best by your kids". Shes a bit high maintenance on the kid front. NAd the kids have the phones that connect to the net when they want-which adds to the cost.
BUT, I can say I also see too many people who buy their kids the latest in the video game craze or cell phone craze instead of a hand's on hobby like MRRing. These kids today don't even know how to talk to each other, they would rather text each other- constantly. Then parents wonder why their Cell phone bills are so high.
People buy their kids their own computer, their own TV . The only kid I see needing his/her own computer is the graduating senior who is college bound.
Rarely will they buy a train set, EXCEPT to run under the Xmas tree. Kids need a hands on thing like a small layout on which to spend their time and creativity and energy. Thank goodness we have a few on here- and they get good grades to boot {or so they tell us}.
Even schools are in on this electronics gizmo fling. They are buying the Kindle and the likes for the kids instead of good old fashioned books that they have to search on their own in to find a text, instead of having the computer search out topics or subject buzz words. Supposedly the cost is about the same as buying new text books. You watch every kid will be given or required to buy an IPAD soon!
I used to be savy on the latest things, but now I fear I am falling behind and becoming a dinosaur,as I have no/little need for these electronic gizmos. I want a simple cell phone to call in cases of emergency. I want a simple computer I can use to access the internet with. I want simple free radio in my vehicle. I would like it if cable tv and broadband internet service was free, or at least not so expensive. I think even the DCC thing is getting a bit over the top. Who needs 27 different horn sounds for their loco? really? honestly?
I do not need a HUGE TV set to look at that has mega megapixels or Hi Def or whatever so I "feel like I am in the middle of the action". I don''t need a home theater in which to watch the TV or movies!
Every where I look, Companies want some of your money for things you didn't know you needed, or for things you wnat that used to be free... Best Buy Store is NOT the "best buy" when Target or Wally world sell the exact thing for a lower price than Best Buy does.
Back to trains. My friend wanted a train set for xmas, and the wife did get one for him, but the 18 y/o also has an anger problem and destroys everything they have, including damaging the house. {And the 3 dogs dind't like the sound of the trains running}. And The Mother won't force the kid to go to counseling to help with the kid's anger management problem or take teh meds that could help him.
He says if we had kids we would do the same things. I say Horse puckies to that.
Boy I think this turned into a rant sorry about that.
We do need more kids in the hobby, but the question is: will they go for it?
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
I don't have kids so I cannot comment on the parental parts of the discussion. However, I do try to encourage kids when I can. My neighbor found out that I am a model railroader and asked me to assist in getting an old Tyco engine running for one of her sons. I found a replacement motor and got it running again. For Christmas I gave his dad an Athearn BB engine that I hadn't assembled yet that was outside my ere for modeling. He and his son put it together Christmas day and had a blast. Now I'm definately not trying to pat myself on the back, I look at it as merely helping someone else along much the same way I was.
The most importnat thing I can offer is that I don't ry to push anything on this young man or any others. When I was his age, my greatest joy was getting the (insert favorite here) Christmas catalog and immediately turning to the new trainsets. Ovals, ovals with switches, figure eight over and unders and WHOA a train set with TWO who trains, one running on each oval! The point is, that was great excitement to me then. Yes, the sets weren't that great but it was the thrill of just running a train that made me happy. Then enters that first BB car you ahve to "build" yourself and you swear it's so accurate that you're now runnign a real train, that gets followed up by a BB or Atlas diesle and now you can call yourself a "real" modle railroader.
Kids, and even adults, aren't ready for everything al at once. Encouraging them along at whatever point they are, and recognizing that, will truly help them develop this as a lifelong hobby.
Ricky
One might say that the closing of train shops might not have anything to do with a declination of model railroading, but just the rise of the Internet itself. The Internet is already the preferred way to shop for most people and may eventually replace store shopping all together. In fact, it will. It's just a matter of time.
Don't get me wrong, I personally prefer to walk around and browse an actual train or hobby shop and my father, an avid model railroader does too and I remember him being concerned in the mid to late eighties when three of his favorite train and hobby shops closed here in Georgia. For a while there were no train shops around. Lately, however, we have seen the openings of a Hobbytown USA and a little nonfranchise train shop called Kennesaw Trains Inc. in the local town of Kennesaw, (located right across from the Big Shanty Museum - home of the General, the Civil War 4-4-0). So maybe model railroading is making a small comeback.
For the most part I think the young involvement is on par with the past. Kids tend to try things for awhile and move on to other things like, girls, games, and sports. Eventually most move on and some will return when they get a bit older. Others yet stick with it but they're in the minority. Having the LHS shut down only hurts with kids in the immediate vicinity but for the most part I don't see too many kids in the 3 LHS I frequent. IMO it's more important to have decent quality train sets to expose kids at a young age. I still have a couple of my old tyco loco's and rolling stock that sit on a shelf near the computer. The cheap sets can be run at max speed without worry and can run over the matchbox cars or people and bounce back and be run again.
Springfield PA
I agree with Crandell and Tom that setting an example and encouraging them to do good things is the best direction to place our energy when it comes to kids. I see a lot of good stuff about a kid choosing R/C cars as a hobby. It's not my thing, but I can see how a teen would get into it and learn a ton of good stuff from it.
I think my father really hoped that I'd get into R/C planes (his hobby). It just didn't strike a chord with me like trains did. Even so, he was supportive and we found a lot to discuss around our hobbies (tools, techniques, materials, glue (we discussed glue a lot). I think what made him happiest was that I chose to work on trains instead of hanging around with a gang.
Regarding the future of the hobby, I relate it to the car (hot rod) hobby. I'm a hot rod nut, too. For 30 years I can vouch for, there has been talk that the car hobby is dying - mostly because cars made since the mid-'70s seem to be less-good as raw material for modification (as compared to a Deuce or '34 Ford) and folks just "feel" differently about cars now than in years past (the "Golden Age," sound familiar?). The next thing you know, modified Hondas and Subarus start showing up at car shows. Their builder/drivers are teens and 20-somethings and they are into their cars as much as any of the "Deuce guys." Granted, things look a lttle different at car shows these days, but the essential attitude prevails. My conclusion: The hobby has changed - it's more "metric"- but it is alive and well. I see the train hobby going through a similar transition. It is NOT dying, just evolving.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
They do need to find their own way. We can expose them to options, and guide them along the path, but in the end, as the Grateful Dead would say, "That path is for your steps alone."
We have one child, a daughter. She's never shown any interest in trains at all. My wife tried to get her into figure skating and tennis, two of her pasttimes, with no success. She took piano lessons for several years, growing more resentful with every class. But, she now sits in her bedroom playing the guitar solo from Layla on my old Fender Jaguar, and she's a swimmer, skier and lacrosse player. We've been on the sidelines coaching and cheering all along.
Around hear, the Young Model Railroaders have become an accomplished modular group at most of the local shows. The "grown-up" clubs all seem to have a few younger members as well. Very often, these teenagers are the go-to guys for troubleshooting during show sessions. If they stay with the hobby, or even if they drift off for a few years and return as many of us have, we're in good shape.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Although I personally think an LHS is irreplaceable as far as hands on purchases/comparison and one-on-one information, since younger folks (those under 21) are "generally" more techno-savvy because that is what they have been brought up on or that's all they have known: Why can't the Internet make MRRing available to them; like the LHS has to current and older generations?
Generally speaking, I think folks - young and old - are caught up in a more sedentary life-style that is based on either TV and/or the computer monitor. (Shortly to become "3D") Until that gets short-circuited (and I don't see that ever happening), folks will more likely choose those venues for their purchases and involvement.
I agree with Crandell. Even with the closing of LHSes in record numbers, the best way to perpetuate this beloved hobby of ours is:
You can't twist their arm or force them into it. You can only introduce the enjoyment of the hobby to them and encourage and instruct them by example. It's their prerogative whether MRRing grabs their fancy or not.
And, if the hobby should ever die out completely (and I don't see that ever happening, either), life will continue on. There's a lot more important things in life than model trains.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Very generally, the best we can do for our children is to provide a good example. If we are good with our use of time, industrious, engaged, frugal, considerate of the needs of other family members, careful and deliberate when we embark on journeys and projects of all kinds, we should, at the end, remember that we have not created mini-Usses. Our kids should learn soon enough that they need to make their own way, to first define it and then to go about taking the path they choose.
There are so many factors that influence how our children behave. There is the role we model, but the salience of their peers is much more important by the time they are 11-18. If their school mates are into I pads or something else, like alcohol or drugs or girls, no child wants to be left behind. Being included is vital to their sense of self-worth, and so is acceptance. Belongingness is what we call it in the social psych world. Kids belong at home, and it is a familiar place to them, so the unfamiliar is what is 'in their face' for all those important developmental years.
As for the hobby and its future, like we need to hash that out after how many days have passed (?), it will wax and wane like all things. Markets are like the wind...you can see and hear it, but you cannot know whether it cometh or goeth. Stores of all kinds, not just hobby shops, are on hard times and are closing. Wal Mart is on hard times and recently blew out some stock to pay bills. Wal Mart!!!
People with any sense stop buying things they don't really need when times are tough. Or, if they can really justify some expenses for 'fun', they make every cent count. For so many of us, those decisions don't lend themselves to hobby shops, even if they are local, well-supplied, and friendly as all get out.
-Crandell
Rob, I definitely agree that there is less out there for younger people to get involved. As a kid, my dad had a small switching layout in the basement, and I worked on it some, but neither of us had time for it so we ended up taking it down. Just last year, I finally got back into the hobby (I'm 18 now), but I've noticed that almost all the hobby shops we used to frequent are gone. The internet is great for supplying modelers, but without the local shops there is nothing to attract the attention of kids. I'd definitely like to see more younger people involved.
There has been lately, some concerns about the decline of young people when it comes to model railroading, at least I see that in the model press. Local hobby shops are closing, I guess because of the access to the internet and being able to buy at lower prices. Where we live in West Tennessee, that is Jackson, there is little hear that provides young people exposure to the hobby. No real hobby shops, and those that are here are geared to RC Modeling. Hobby Lobby is selling off its model railroading equipment in the store and is not planning to re-stock.
Jackson, Tennessee was a railroad town. At one time five presidents lived here contrilling five major railroads that ran through the mid-south. Now it is CSX. CN, and a local, West Tennessee Railroad. We do have the Casey Jones Museum, which needs a lot of work when it come to the hobby, one or two clubs, and the Old Railroad Station in South Jackson, which is a very nice museum with a very nice HO layout.
My son is now 13 and has watched me work on my layout for six years. It takes up a two car garage, side to side and front to back. He now helps a great deal with the workings of the layout and is learning how to kit bash and build, run trains and develop his own sklls. He now has several friends over and they are doing the same. We have developed a military base and that seems to be his focus. I have noticed that as I build this road when he suggests I listen. The more I support his suggestions the more he wants to do. It may not always be the best but by parental encouragement and the suppport of allowing his friends to come over and build, and run trains, I have begun to see a turn around in our small community, south of town, with an interest in model railroading.
I used to be particular about what went on the railroad, but with some suggestions and support I now allow Justin and his friends to do a little free lancing and it developes true interest.
Just some thoughts.
Rob Sylvester
WTRR