I'd have to agree with GG. Building a locomotive from the ground up to the same level of detail as a nice Atlas or similar locomotive is MUCH MUCH more expensive. Stick with the good quality stuff and add the few details you might need to better represent a prototype. Atlas might be a little overpriced, but it still beats all the work and the cost of the detail parts.
If you want a piece of crap model that doesn't run well or look good, then go and build one yourself. The work and skills involved just ain't worth it. If you want all the terrible qualities of a home built model, save yourself the trouble and go buy a regular line Bachmann...
Kade, if you are covering those hills with trees, then you are all set. Or paint and add a few plaster rocks and you've got a beautiful rock cut.
Alex
Railfan Alex If you want a piece of crap model that doesn't run well or look good, then go and build one yourself. The work and skills involved just ain't worth it. If you want all the terrible qualities of a home built model, save yourself the trouble and go buy a regular line Bachmann...
Again, that kind of thinking gets rather blunt. And it's kinda the arguments that lead to the "Is our hobby dieing?" threads. The facts are right, building from scratch, or even nearly so, can be very expensive, engine or structure. Bu tyou shouldn't be afraid to do it.
One of the gazillion stalled projects is what to do with a Spectrum 4-8-2. to repair one I bought that was wired wrong, creating a thick smoke from the wring, they sent me a whole NW Heavy Mountain. Now I have shell, and a tender, that are rapidly on their way to becoming a 4-8-2+2-8-0 Duplex Saddletank Cab Forward. It's a kitbash, not a scratchbuild, but the parts for such are totalling 150 so far, and that's for only half a locomotive. Granted, most of that is drivesets, but can you get drivers, chassis, and a motor with frame/weight for $40
-Morgan
I hardly think buying an Atlas shell, frame, motor, trucks, and circuit board, and screwing them all together counts as scatchbuilding or kitbashing. If an Atlas decorated shell is part of that, then there goes the paint it yourself aspect. Furthermore, that part of the hobby is not going to fade into oblivion, it's just going to have a smaller representation. Different people have different wants and many want to run trains without the time and work of building a kit. Having said that, yes I buy RTR because of the availability and ease, yes I buy kits because I need the model, and yes I scratchbuild/kitbash, but only when I can't get a model commercially. It really goes down to what you model, and if you're modeling present day CSX operations you have it made in terms of engines and rolling stock available to you. Modeling the 1950s on the B&M is a different instance entirely where in G scale there is no B&M specific steam, passenger equipment, or era appropriate cabooses to buy commercially.
FlashwaveRailfan Alex If you want a piece of crap model that doesn't run well or look good, then go and build one yourself. The work and skills involved just ain't worth it. If you want all the terrible qualities of a home built model, save yourself the trouble and go buy a regular line Bachmann... Again, that kind of thinking gets rather blunt. And it's kinda the arguments that lead to the "Is our hobby dieing?" threads. The facts are right, building from scratch, or even nearly so, can be very expensive, engine or structure. Bu tyou shouldn't be afraid to do it.
Here's what I have to add to this: If you go out and try to build your own locomotive with no skills or experience beyond that of most modelers (building Athearn BB or a slightly more difficult car kit like an Accurail) it will turn out exactly as Alex described.
Building your own locomotive from scratch IS possible, and people do it all the time. People who have done it before. And have a bunch of kitbashes of varying difficulty under their belt. Jumping into a major scratchbuild like a locomotive without any previous experience or skills will not turn out well. And an Atlas... At least start out with junk parts from an old Bachmann, Tyco, whatever, and build a decent-looking locomotive from that using parts from the original kit, detail parts, etc. Build a bunch of those, then move up to Athearn, do more of those, and THEN invest in Atlas parts!
That's how I interpret Alex's post.
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Oh yeah, and I'm still following this thread but with a job and an increasingly busy life, I haven't had the time or anything of note to post. BUT, I just ordered the biggest bag of Supertrees they make, decals for Alex to finish off the WRS power (and hopefully the caboose), and I also finished my papermill kitbash for Enfield, the scenery in which is also mostly completed. So in a few weeks I'll have a bunch of stuff to post.
I've looked at the atlas site and thought about doing that, then determined it would suck if I tried. I'll just stick to internet hunting.
Well, if you saw over in WPF, I'm getting tired of my 4x8, as it's just getting old and it'll be a bear to operate etc. so now I'm going to focus on my freight and loco fleet and trying out scenery techniques.
So anyways, here's my current Hollow Core Door plan. the tracks at left go off to staging. I based it off the MR project layout "The Alkali Central", shown in the Dec 95 and Jan 96 issues
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
I also posted this in WPF, my layout has about 3 weeks left until I leave for college so Im just running as many trains as I can on it. Here I finally consisted my Atlas Dash8 and MTH sd70ace for a run.
Guilford GuyI hardly think buying an Atlas shell, frame, motor, trucks, and circuit board, and screwing them all together counts as scatchbuilding or kitbashing.
I feel there's a difference there though. If your assembling a GP30 out of GP30 parts, then you are absolutely correct. But if that GP30 is a repower, and one is using an Alco frame (Hmm, I think I need to flip that around, but whatever) then you are technically using two different kits. And likely, they won't marry together nicely anyway. Granted it's a lot less cutting than more traditional kitbashes.
And irregardless, I just mean all this as deep-thought conversation, nothing more. In hindsight, I shoulda reworded my previous post a little bit better.
@BigBlue: Love the pic. That'll look great with a little more scenery, and actually, if you felt like cutting out the back wall and replacing it with a digital background, you won't even need to go that far.
@Sawyer: The curve in the top-right corner. I think there's too much of a kink in it. Something to keep an eye on when laying track methinks.
BigBlue, nice shot, and nice locos. That sucks about the layout; another nice thing about my HCD layout plans is I can either pass it on to my little bro if he gets interested, or store it until I get an apartment in college.
. i never ment to say one day that i want to build a loco. and make it out of atlas parts, its important to practice i just wanted to point it out that if you had skill in kit bashinging of if you practice you can save some money i was never going to start on atlas parts that like a baby making the climbing mount everist i planed to practice i right now have a 20 year old atlas plymouth diesel( or a five year old bockman its had to tell them apart dont get me started on the puts out why do i fall for its products). it is an experiment i cant outfit it with a normal decoder so im going overhuall every thing on the loco but hey if it works sweet if not well there is allways a pitiful loco at the train shows for 5 bucks that might have a second chance at life.
Morgan, what do you mean by too much of a kink? do you mean where it comes off of the sectional track?
QF, I think another area where this could potentially work is building dummy locos. one could get the shell, trucks, fuel tank, and loco frame halves etc. Just strip the gears from the trucks and assemble with a lot of lead weight in the frame halves or something. That'd be something to try at least.
great idea if you use the loco as a dummy there is a wide range of aplications you have enouch to put a huce space for sound decoders or you can model the intear of the loco and have a prity dang realistic scean of an engin being scraped of model the engin open up the acess dors and have the loco be serviced on a siding or in a shop.
or or for HO you might be able fit a smoke unit in a train possiblely even in a train sound decoder and dich lights and an interar but thats a litle optimistic
or a n scale train you can super deatale a dummy use a z scale motor you have enough power to place the train in front with out afecting the powered trains pulling power but you also have enough room fo a sound decoder detailed interor and and operating dichlights
or in anouther area super deatail mutiple shells of diferent roadnames and just swich them out every month or so and you can model prity much any roadname and if you get board of one swich it out in a minut or if you have a stageing area you have every time you send a loco to the stageing swich the shell with a diferent number you can prity much have a roster of 5 10 or 20 locos even if you only have one
All sound like excellent ideas, but idk about the Z scale motor, then you'd have one heck of a time fixing the linkages up between the motor and worm boxes. I think I'd go with a sound decoder (sound only) and lead weight if I did do a dummy loco
Flashwave I feel there's a difference there though. If your assembling a GP30 out of GP30 parts, then you are absolutely correct. But if that GP30 is a repower, and one is using an Alco frame (Hmm, I think I need to flip that around, but whatever) then you are technically using two different kits. And likely, they won't marry together nicely anyway. Granted it's a lot less cutting than more traditional kitbashes.
Would you be talking about a locomotive somewhere along the lines of this?
http://thomas766.fotopic.net/p2961426.html
If you are, then it's not that complicated. Those are just Alco trade in trucks. As far as I know only the SOO and MILW did that, but who knows what other railroads took part. So really, all you would need to do is replace the truck side frames. (Which is something I'd like to do in the near future whenever Alex gets me that GP30!) I know the Katy (MKT) did some weird Baldwin/EMD re-powers, but I don't recall ever hearing of an EMD re-power with an Alco.
I do get the point that you're making. But that's kit bashing, which defiantly isn't cheaper. To me it seems like to much trouble to do all that, when I could just buy a ready to run locomotive.
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JR7582 My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcfan/
Jordan, the Southern used Alco trucks on its GP35s, at least some of them. I remember that from the Wheeling & Lake Erie articles that were in Trains a couple years back.
Packers#1 Jordan, the Southern used Alco trucks on its GP35s, at least some of them. I remember that from the Wheeling & Lake Erie articles that were in Trains a couple years back.
Oh yes, I forgot about that. Now that I think about it the Ann Arbor had Alco trade in trucks on their GP35s. From what I've heard it was a pain to change the brake shoes on those trucks.
As did the ICG on their GP30s. MEC also had U18Bs with Blomberg trucks from trade-in F units. Railroads got discounts if they traded in old units which could supply parts to the new ones, and that's just what they did. Why spend more money than necessary when those older units will be getting scrapped eventually anyways.
Trade in's are less common today, but CN traded their big M636's to GE for their Dash 8-40CM's. The big GE's ended up riding on the old Dofasco trucks:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2012571
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=319587&nseq=26
BC Rail did the same thing as well.
Hows going guys. I posted this in wpf the hills have been painted and scenery has been placed. There are a few touchups to do but im happy with the results.
" mce_src="">
-Kade
I just remembered another that I even have a model of; the ATSF had U23Bs that road on AAR type b trucks. however, idk if those were from trade-ins or at the ATSF's request.
Well, I painted the hills and now I'm messin around with poly fiber tuffs, they're looking pretty good for spending about 5 minutes per each.
Most GE's were built with AAR B trucks. The Blombergs on them were only from trade-ins.
Guilford GuyMost GE's were built with AAR B trucks. The Blombergs on them were only from trade-ins.
Ah, did they start with their FB-2 trucks with U23Bs? I think I've seen models that have those kinds of trucks. or were they all AAR trucks?
Here's a snapshot of my work on the hills. sorry for the poor quality, I used the flash on my camera so you could actually SEE the scenery.
I don't know when or why they came to use those trucks, but most U25s, U28s, U30s had AAR type B trucks, while none of the U18s, and only some of the U23s had them.
Guilford GuyI don't know when or why they came to use those trucks, but most U25s, U28s, U30s had AAR type B trucks, while none of the U18s, and only some of the U23s had them.
Ah, interesting.
Well, taking into consideration the point Ulrich brought up in the diner, I may design a modular layout instead. Either 3x6, 6x6, or still 36"x80" I'm thinking about going with the 6x6, since I can store it pretty easily
My Model Railroad: Tri State RailMy Photos on Flickr: FlickrMy Videos on Youtube: YoutubeMy Photos on RRPA: RR Picture Archives
WCfan Flashwave I feel there's a difference there though. If your assembling a GP30 out of GP30 parts, then you are absolutely correct. But if that GP30 is a repower, and one is using an Alco frame (Hmm, I think I need to flip that around, but whatever) then you are technically using two different kits. And likely, they won't marry together nicely anyway. Granted it's a lot less cutting than more traditional kitbashes. Would you be talking about a locomotive somewhere along the lines of this? http://thomas766.fotopic.net/p2961426.html If you are, then it's not that complicated. Those are just Alco trade in trucks. As far as I know only the SOO and MILW did that, but who knows what other railroads took part. So really, all you would need to do is replace the truck side frames. (Which is something I'd like to do in the near future whenever Alex gets me that GP30!) I know the Katy (MKT) did some weird Baldwin/EMD re-powers, but I don't recall ever hearing of an EMD re-power with an Alco. I do get the point that you're making. But that's kit bashing, which defiantly isn't cheaper. To me it seems like to much trouble to do all that, when I could just buy a ready to run locomotive.
yes, something like that. Though I was just drawing straws, guess there's
cliche aprotoype for everything
Sawyer: Top left corner: it looks like the RTS program (that is what that is, yes?) didn;t lay out a good long curve, it;s not arched enough. It kinda looks like you said "maximize" and it just grabbed the center point and pulled it out. Someone find me the right words pwease...
FlashwaveSawyer: Top left corner: it looks like the RTS program (that is what that is, yes?) didn;t lay out a good long curve, it;s not arched enough. It kinda looks like you said "maximize" and it just grabbed the center point and pulled it out. Someone find me the right words pwease...
wouldn't that be top right? the left is planned with sectional track. idk, i used the flextrack tool, that's probably what went wrong.
would it be it jsut goes from curve to straight to curve and kind of pinches down?
Packers#1wouldn't that be top right?
Yes, yes it would be... I r schmart...
Hey guys, sorry for my absence, but it's been a little crazy around here.
My grandpa passed two weeks ago tomorrow. I won't go into details, but I'll just say it was time, and it's for the better.
Anyways, on a MRRing note, I also stopped by the LHS in Point Pleasant. Didn't really have anything I was interested in, or that I could afford, so I just got Walthers's 2010 reference book.But the Gensets are expected this month or next, so hopefully I'll FINALLY be getting that.
Very sorry to hear that Joe. But, he's in a better place now.
Well I decided to post here now a bit, since there's not many other places for teens to post about their model railroads and what not. (NTRES, but no one posts there anymore) So lately I've been planning my 4x8 layout, as well as many conversations with GG about the ideas of a fremo club. I won't go into details about it, but here is my 4x8 plan.