There are even companies that make games for the Intellevision and Nintendo systems. I have a couple of those systems that just hook up to the TV---just a joy stick with the games in the base--Good ol' Source byCircuit City----can trust them to have obscure gaming systems!!!
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
rrebellThe Internet, I know you know how to use it, the data is out there although I must admit it is hard to find sometimes, was going for China but in a fast search could not find it. In fact when I did the searches I found scales I have never heard of that were popular in the 1950's and still have adherents.
The Internet, I know you know how to use it, the data is out there although I must admit it is hard to find sometimes, was going for China but in a fast search could not find it. In fact when I did the searches I found scales I have never heard of that were popular in the 1950's and still have adherents.
Considering where most of the model railroad items are made, I would say all the model railroad scales are popular in China( or depending on your outlook).
garrConsidering where most of the model railroad items are made, I would say all the model railroad scales are popular in China( or depending on your outlook).
Might be interesting to find out just how big that market actually is---considering population there
Hey. After finding out that at least one 1/50th scale Bucyrus 9750 ended up in Beijing why not?
If you go by what the hobby stores carry around Northern Virginia then you have to conclude that Lionel is the most popular scale/gauge. I can easily find lots of Lionel. The last really good store for HO and N closed a few years back and hasn't been replaced (he evened had a some S).
Frankly, I have stopped shopping at hobby shops in my area While S is a minority scale, I used to find parts like strip wood, paint, etc. that are usable in multiple scales. But all that has been mostly discontinued from the train only hobby shops. The Lionel crowd is all RTR.
I recently moved to Culpeper, Va. which has no hobby shops at all, but that's not a problem since all my purchases are shows and internet.
Enjoy
Paul
Bachmann does produce a steam loco of Chinese prototype - I wonder where they sell it and to whom? I also know of a maker producing a QJ class steamer in O scale - a wonderful crafted model! I was in China in 2008 and did not see a hobby shop in Shanghai nor Beijing.
blownout cylinder garrConsidering where most of the model railroad items are made, I would say all the model railroad scales are popular in China( or depending on your outlook). Might be interesting to find out just how big that market actually is---considering population there Hey. After finding out that at least one 1/50th scale Bucyrus 9750 ended up in Beijing why not?
Actually, I would expect that the interest in scale model trains in mainland China would be very small at this point. Theirs is much more of an emerging economy today, one in which the rise above subsistence living has only occurred relatively recently for the vast majority of the population and with only a small middle class by percentage. Thereby, one would expect there to be little interest in spending money on frivolous items like model trains, or hobbies in general, as opposed to obtaining other newly available electronic devices like say microwave ovens, TVs, and similar fare that the entire average family could utilize. Likewise, I think that their cultural outlook and work ethic currently leaves far less time for things like hobbies.
This is not to say that there aren't any model railroaders in China currently. Even a brief search of the Internet turns up evidence (including video) that there are. It's just that the interest at this time is probably rather limited. China's situation is likely to be similar to that found in Russia, where modelers are present, but probably number no more than a few tens of thousands, at the very most.
I would say that interest in model trains could indeed find the Chinese people as the great consumers of model railroading products at some point in the future. Their country relies heavily on the real thing for everyday transportation of people and goods, much like the U.S.A. did in the 40's and early 50's and that, in part, gave rise to our hobby interest here. One might anticipate that there would be a broad interest among the public in trains in general. It would also be logical that either N, or Z, model trains would be the decidedly preferred scale, just as is the situation in Japan, because of the limited residential space families have available to them.
CNJ831
Actually the NMRA is expanding into China (got that info from the horses mouth at the last meeting I attended. Also some seem to think of China as not like us, they are just like us but with a few differences the most notable being the central government. In fact a few years ago their top leaders accused us of worrying too much about their human rights and not concentrating on capitalism (chairman Mao would roll over in his grave). Another thing about China is if you run a company and cut corners and cause a scandal you may find yourself executed instead of being sent to a country club prison as in this country. As far as not seeing hobby shops in China it may be like in Japan in the early years of brass production, you really had to know were to look as their hobby commerce was different then, anybody know about china hobby facts, I know that it is important enough to have their ministers interested.
rrebell Also some seem to think of China as not like us, they are just like us but with a few differences the most notable being the central government.
Also some seem to think of China as not like us, they are just like us but with a few differences the most notable being the central government.
Now that is an interesting and audacious statement! I find China to be very different, mainly in terms of culture, ethics and political systems. My opinion is based on a number of visits which I made, where I had the chance to get in close contact with people.
China is just starting to develop a middle class, there is little room (financially and in terms of time) for hobbies. Things may and eventually will change, but it will take a little while. Why sell hobby stuff to Chinese, when the long noses are paying triple the amount?
I teach CAD and manual drafting in a large metropolitan magnet high school. When I have a "draw and build" type of assignment, be it with cardstock or foamcore, 95% of my students have had absolutely no previous experience working with their hands, with attention to detail required and precision. They ALL DO HAVE experience with some form of computer gaming and are very dexterous when it comes to texting or manipulating a game device hand control. Their attention focus is minimal and their patience is the same.
How can you develop a new group of model railroad- or any other scale model- hobbyists from a generation with the above characteristics? It would seem that the "Thomas the Tank Engine" kids have far more exposure to other influen
Perhaps a survey of those who ARE new entrants into the hobby would be useful in finding out what has brought them into the hobby?.
What you say is true to some extent about kids and their game controllers (the military loves this). As far as China, while it is true I have not personally gone, I have had a lot of dealings with them and have a friend that buys in that country, if I can get a hold of him (travels alot) I am sure he must have at least i e-mail contact there of a personal nature. As far as disposable income, they have 500,000 fast food outlets in China and at least 2000 are KFC which is expensive in China to eat at. They also have Pizza Hut, Mcdonalds and Panda Express to name a few. As far as model railroading I was able to find a few meager articles from China in English but since I don't read Chinese!
Those fast food restaurants are within reach of a mere 100 million people out of 1.4 billion
Chinese culture is about 5000 years old and still determining every day life. The average worker earns about $ 200 a month and lives in a dormitory. Out of his wage, he contributes half to his family. He/she has no time, no money, no means and no interest in a hobby.
Daily life is beyond compare to our way of life!
Sir Madog Those fast food restaurants are within reach of a mere 100 million people out of 1.4 billion Chinese culture is about 5000 years old and still determining every day life. The average worker earns about $ 200 a month and lives in a dormitory. Out of his wage, he contributes half to his family. He/she has no time, no money, no means and no interest in a hobby. Daily life is beyond compare to our way of life!
rrebell Sir Madog Those fast food restaurants are within reach of a mere 100 million people out of 1.4 billion Chinese culture is about 5000 years old and still determining every day life. The average worker earns about $ 200 a month and lives in a dormitory. Out of his wage, he contributes half to his family. He/she has no time, no money, no means and no interest in a hobby. Daily life is beyond compare to our way of life! True that the middle class in China is only 100-247 million but they already consume 12% of the worlds (note worlds) luxury goods and is said to reach 27% by 2015, not that far off. Now their middle class is not much smaller than ourson the low estimate but their population is 4-5 times ours, remember our middle class is only about 150 million, on the low level of they are short of us but on the high estimate they far exceed us.
Now lets not get overly optimistic about the chances here. The culture is different for one thing and hence their values may not be quite the same as here either. Besides what comprises a middle class over there---the same wage levels? I don't think so----
Wages mean nothing by themselves in not as developed parts of the country a good meal cost 3 Yuan about .44 U.S., try to get a good meal here for under $10.00, you have to have 20+ times the income to be able to buy the same, rents can be as low as 50 Yuan even in Beijing or less than $7.50 a month, try to buy lunch for that!
With all this talk of China and model trains, let's take a moment to review the how's and why's of model railroading becoming popular in the U.S. in the first place and why that situation does not apply to China, now or in the future.
When one examines the history of the model railroading hobby's development in the United States, it is immediately noticed that a number of critical factors happened to come together in 1940's and 50's America that dramatically influenced its growth from one of almost total obscurity pre-war to the second most popular hobby in the U.S. by the mid 1950's.
Scale model railroading in the United States was a very minor hobby interest among adults up through the end of WWII, with the reported number of hobbyists at just 16,000 in 1944. Although today we look upon the war years with the opinion that it must have been a horrible era to live in, for those who did there was a great deal of nostalgia associated with it.
Steam train travel was the way to get around before and during the war and a great deal of population movement, voluntary and otherwise, occurred during the war years. Thus, trains were in the forefront of many an adult's mind at the time. When the war ended, there was an overwhelming desire for a return to normalcy; to the feeling that the world was saved and safe for your kids; to start families and reflect of all of this. Lionel made an enormous push with the theme that all was right with the world if kids and their dads could play with a Lionel layout on Christmas morning. Those kids became most of today's hobbyists.
Lionel's theme was played out in every major magazine, newspaper and even on TV (both Lionel and Flyer had Saturday morning TV shows in the 50's). Reflecting war years experiences, many movies centered around, or included, trains and train travel. In elementary school every child read about Dick and Jane's riding the Super Chief when going to visit grandma. America took all this to heart and in the early post war years adults literally mobbed stores like Macy's to make train purchases for their kids (or maybe themselves! ).
At almost the same time, returning Vets were taking advantage of government loans to start new businesses. Among the most popular enterprises were hobby shops. An early 1950's MR carried a onetime listing of all the hobby shops in major U.S. cities. NYC had over 125, while Chicago and other big cities had over 100 each!
This was also the era when the public display of huge club layouts became a phenomenon. Several were located in major railroad stations and were viewed by tens of thousands of travelers and commuters while waiting for the departure time of their trains. For many it became an annual thing.
This extraordinary coincidence of events caused the hobby of model railroading to literally explode in America, such that the 16,000 hobbyists of 1944 grew to over 100,000 by very early in the 1950's. Americans, who had been hobby conscious throughout the Great Depression, were primed to try some new hobby facet and it was model railroading that profited. At the same time, the hobby manufacturers, benefiting from the new machines acquired through war work, were able to offer far less labor intensive kits and even RTR, at very reasonable prices, easing the newbie's entrance into what once was mainly a machinist's hobby.
I would point out here that the introduction of slot cars in the early 1960's, together with the advent of the Space Age a few years earlier, essentially took the youth element away from model trains, setting the hobby on the road to becoming increasing grey in the decades that lay ahead.
Now while I can see a possible modest rise of an interest in model trains among the Chinese in the future because of their day to day interaction with real trains, the circumstances that led to the great popularity of the hobby in the U.S. cannot and will not be repeated there. No explosion of the hobby in China should really be anticipated.
Very good, I hope you don't think I was talking about an explosion but just enough to make it flourish as it is in this country (although some would disagree). The reason that the hobby (as far as the hobbyist goes) is doing well is all the new products continually being introduced and the reason these surveys don't reflect anything (except popularity of scale) is your average hobbyist period (doesn't have to be trains) is a lone wolf that tends to keep their hobby as their time with occasional forays into the world at large. Even the forums do not indicate interest, just try to get George of FSM fame to communicate via forums, almost impossible. In fact I have met many through chance meetings at swap meets that have layouts but belong to no organization and have no train subscriptions. I myself would be in this category except for having a bunch of free computer time waiting for other events in my life. Subscriptions are down to 1 and soon none as they don't provide the info I need in the hobby. The lack of hobby shops only indicates a lack of hobby shops, period.