Placed a large order with them but they were out of stock of everything (guess they had not updated their web) but they gave an immediate refund, they seemed to be nice people to deal with, if they are gone it will be a shame!
In Bergen County, New Jersey Hi-Way Hobby (Standard Hobby in MRR) is closing after a very interesting 50 years. http://www.northjersey.com/news/92285689_Hi-Way_Hobby_House_closing_ends_an_era.html
It is indeed sad to see yet another LHS closing down for the lack of a future. I read the newspaper article and the comments to it. They all mourn the "death" of the patient, but what have they done to rescue it? Have they bought there? Been loyal customers? Have they tried to attract the new generation to the hobby? Sure, times have changed and money is much tighter - but that has always been the case!
Without the typical LHS, our hobby won´t be the same!
Support your LHS!
Yeah, I just lost my fave hobby shop on friday. Hobby's Etc. They carried everything you could think of. Theyve only been around since 1991, but they were always friendly and helpful. Always had area info for shows for modelers and a flier with a whole years schedule of sales they planned. Im gonna miss them.
These days, hobby stores need to carry more than just plastic models and train sets to be competitive with the internet guys. Our LHS in Traverse City, Michigan carries diecast cars and planes as well as practically full size doll houses and furniture and R/C ships and cars.. They now have gotten into rock polishing equipment. Train stuff kinda drys up during the summer and R/C takes off.
I was in my LHS yesterday, one which specifically caters to model railroading in all scales and I was advised by the owner that it is very likely that he will close his doors before the end of the year. Now this store is one of just two between NYC and Albany that are left. If it goes, it will be a one hour ride to the next nearest to me...and this is in an area that was once one of the true hotbeds of the hobby for decades and supported around half a dozen local shops at one time, including what was probably America's largest!
When the LHS finally disappears altogether, so will the one remaining real area of broad public exposure to the hobby. For those individuals who aren't old enough to have had Lionel, or Flyer, trains in their youth, visiting the hobby shops as teens, or young men, was where the introduction to scale model trains and the associated hobby occurred. The Internet, eBay, on-line dealers and railroad forums do absolutely nothing to replace that.
CNJ831
LHS used to be an acronym for Local Hobby Shop.
Pretty soon it will stand for Last Hobbyshop Standing.
Alton Junction
You know a lot of you lament the local hobby shop from closing but the way I have been treated over the years, I am surprised they lasted this long, I guess it was the Internet that is putting the final nail in their coffins. As for those that say the hobby is dying, remember that if you want to be successful in life you need to plan at least 10 years in advance, people like Bachmann are thinking longer! The new crop of model railroaders (and there are more than ever before) is not due to ripen for another 15 years. It is coming from the Tomas The Tank Engine crowd but they have to finish going through all the phases of growing up, cars, family etc. There are many other inspirations out there but that will turn out to be the largest chunk.
CNJ831When the LHS finally disappears altogether, so will the one remaining real area of broad public exposure to the hobby.
Move over Baby boomers and the end of the dinosaur Hobby Store! Say Hello to Generation NEXT, the era of video gaming and instant gratification!
LONG LIVE THE XBOX 360!
And for those of you old farts who don't know what an Xbox 360 is, you better get a clue baby, because it's coming and you can't stop it.
Driline,
mind if I correct you a little?
The next generation will not be playing with any XYZ-box, but they will play with toy soldiers, just like our great-grandfathers did. Only this time, they call it "Warhammer"
Yes our society keeps improving by leaps and bounds
X-box, bad controllers, I do gaming also but will stick to my PC and the ever improving video cards they have, you will have to go and get a new machine in a few years but even the stock PC I have now will last with the addition of a new card, actually it moves faster than I can now and I havent even bothered to tweak it let alone add even a duel card let alone a quad.
rrebell The new crop of model railroaders (and there are more than ever before) is not due to ripen for another 15 years. It is coming from the Tomas The Tank Engine crowd but they have to finish going through all the phases of growing up, cars, family etc. There are many other inspirations out there but that will turn out to be the largest chunk.
The new crop of model railroaders (and there are more than ever before) is not due to ripen for another 15 years. It is coming from the Tomas The Tank Engine crowd but they have to finish going through all the phases of growing up, cars, family etc. There are many other inspirations out there but that will turn out to be the largest chunk.
Most unfortunately, that's simply a myth. Thomas has been on U.S. TV for twenty years now and no one has been able to decern even the slightest evidence that it has influenced youth in any significant numbers to become model railroaders later in life (after twenty years it should certainly be quite evident in some fashion by now).
Folks have claimed that Thomas will be the hobby's savior before, but the fact is that Thomas is viewed as just another children's fantasy TV show by its audience, the same as Sponge Bob and a host of other cartoon-like programs. The Lionel generation of the 50's had the real thing right infront of them on the livingroom floor to touch and control. It was also regarded as a miniature representation of reality by the kids, not like the fantasy world of strangely foreign-looking, talking trains. In addition, I'm afraid the majority of the Thomas audience is far too young to even grasp the concept of model trains as a ongoing hobby. At best, the Brio wooden trains and simple Thomas HO will be regarding by their owners as simply common childrens' toys later in their lives, not as the source of an adult craftsman's hobby.
If you only buy from Internet box-shifters because you judge merely on price, then don't be surprised if LHS's disappear. An LHS is a business, and can't survive on marginal sales from an occasional passing customer. So put your money where your mouth is, and buy from them if you want them to survive, else zip your mouth and quit moaning !
Dennis
Driline CNJ831When the LHS finally disappears altogether, so will the one remaining real area of broad public exposure to the hobby. Move over Baby boomers and the end of the dinosaur Hobby Store! Say Hello to Generation NEXT, the era of video gaming and instant gratification! LONG LIVE THE XBOX 360! And for those of you old farts who don't know what an Xbox 360 is, you better get a clue baby, because it's coming and you can't stop it.
They are in their twenties; I have heard stories about post-WWII incidents where people used to stand in line at auto dealerships when a new line of Packards or DeSoto's or Lincolns were going on sale: I have never got a reading of how many of us "old farts" stood in line for six hours plus for one of these XBOXs.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
R.T. - well spoken!
I tend to agree, that Thomas the Tank Engine is not the tool to draft the next generation model railroaders. It is too far from a real railroad, and, unless you "graduate" your kids to a real model train in time, will not act as a leverage.
People don't realy get into their hobbies until the babies hit school around age 6 (kindergarden dose not count as is usually a half day) and most don't really spend until the kids are out, they may dabble before or collect. This is average and dose not mean you necessarily. Tomas came out in 1984 and did not become realy popular till much later. As for the LHS, and this is an example of a recent foray to 3 different ones (on the way to someplace else) and another searched before. All I wanted was a couple of bottles of Proweld or the same quality. First no product but said another brand was as good so bought at a premium (not even close), 2nd out of stock but had similar one (realy close in quality so would have worked, comes back not but I got (product from first store) no thanks. third no have as with 4th. Just the other day had someone look for a standard styrene sheet and they just told the person all we have is plastic and not what you want! Went online, had to pay a bit of premium but it is one its way!!!!!!
R. T. POTEET Driline CNJ831When the LHS finally disappears altogether, so will the one remaining real area of broad public exposure to the hobby. Move over Baby boomers and the end of the dinosaur Hobby Store! Say Hello to Generation NEXT, the era of video gaming and instant gratification! LONG LIVE THE XBOX 360! And for those of you old farts who don't know what an Xbox 360 is, you better get a clue baby, because it's coming and you can't stop it.I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what an XBOX360 is; I'll extend to you some further information . . . . . I don't care what an XBOX360 is . . . . . and I will further state that I expect that I will still be alive tomorrow morning with that lack of knowledge. I do know one thing: the day it was introduced one of my wife's granddaughters and her husband stood in line at a Wal-Mart from about 6 in the evening and the store ran out of them 15 people ahead of them in line. They are in their twenties; I have heard stories about post-WWII incidents where people used to stand in line at auto dealerships when a new line of Packards or DeSoto's or Lincolns were going on sale: I have never got a reading of how many of us "old farts" stood in line for six hours plus for one of these XBOXs.
No, the sad thing is young to middle aged people are lining up around the block to be the first to get an iphone or iPad that will be obsolete in 6 months...The LHS's near me thought stocking Bachman Silver series cars, Woodland Scenic landscaping and Testors paint would good enough to satisfy their train customers. They are no longer in business...
Hey, I like the WS stuff and testers makes Model Masters line and Floquil, sorry but there is no defending Silver series cars!
elansp In Bergen County, New Jersey Hi-Way Hobby (Standard Hobby in MRR) is closing after a very interesting 50 years. http://www.northjersey.com/news/92285689_Hi-Way_Hobby_House_closing_ends_an_era.html
I read this article and was taken by this quote -
"The brothers said they also had to face the reality of model-building and train-enthusiast demographics. The age of the customers is rising, with no influx of new, young customers.
'The average age of the model customers used to be 31, 32; now it's in the low 50s," said John Mangano. Today's kids, said brother Frank Jr., "are not interested in using their hands to create little structures."
Now I don't know how anyone else may feel about this, but there is much truth in what he says. We are living in a totally different world that the one those of us in our 60's and older knew. So many of the youth and parents today share a totally different set of values than what we had not to mention the fact that society is so techologically advanced from the 50's and 60's. In addition to this, all one needs to do is to look at some of the institutions we grew up with to see another profound change. Fraternal organizations, churches, VFW, American Legion, Lions clubs and other similar organizations are dwindling in some areas because today's families are not 'joiners' like so many of us were and the people that built these organizations are, at least in my area, are becoming fewer every day.
In addition, and again I don't know how it is in other areas, but where I live the schools have totally taken over every day and night of the week - and if it isn't the schools, it's soccer or tennis or dance that has literally absorbed some of today's families leaving no 'family night' such as some of us knew. And with all these pressures the time left for probably any 'hobby' is very limited or non-existent.
Now this isn't a rant, but I am rather just stating some thoughts that come to mind from this particular quote. We do live in a changing world and perhaps the demographic in this hobby is aging. Anyone have any information on that?
As far as the LHS is concerned, it's true that we should try and support their efforts. But the LHS also has a responsibility for good customer service which includes adequate inventories, decent pricing and a courteous, knowledgable and helpful staff. Having a web site is almost a 'must have' as well and if they do, it should be up to date and relatively easy to use. The days of the 'mom and pop shop' are, sadly, coming to an end in many areas of the country. Many of us have seen this happen in our own . towns because some stores simply haven't kept up with the changing needs of their customer base.
My own LHS is a prime example and I am amazed they are still in business. They deal in far more than just trains, but their inventory is limited with hardly any new products, their web site is totally unworkable and the one 'train guy' should have been a cast member on "Grumpy Old Men.' In fact, I will only go in the place on Thursday afternoons when I know he isn't there. I don't want to even get started about pricing but when it comes to major purchases I rarely use this place because they are so far out of line.
Anyway, I feel bad for any business that closes. It's tough on a community and ever tougher on the owners and their loyal customers. We all have a stake in this and they do need our support.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
camaro These days, hobby stores need to carry more than just plastic models and train sets to be competitive with the internet guys. Our LHS in Traverse City, Michigan carries diecast cars and planes as well as practically full size doll houses and furniture and R/C ships and cars.. They now have gotten into rock polishing equipment. Train stuff kinda drys up during the summer and R/C takes off.
Would that be Trains and Things on Front Street?? Great little shop. I always go in there whenever I am in Traverse City and the first trip up with be this coming week.
HaroldANow I don't know how anyone else may feel about this, but there is much truth in what he says. We are living in a totally different world that the one those of us in our 60's and older knew.
Right On Harold! I agree 100% on every topic you touched upon. Might as well stick a fork in it and close this thread. While LHS rants are fun, they are getting old.
HaroldA elansp In Bergen County, New Jersey Hi-Way Hobby (Standard Hobby in MRR) is closing after a very interesting 50 years. http://www.northjersey.com/news/92285689_Hi-Way_Hobby_House_closing_ends_an_era.html I read this article and was taken by this quote - "The brothers said they also had to face the reality of model-building and train-enthusiast demographics. The age of the customers is rising, with no influx of new, young customers. 'The average age of the model customers used to be 31, 32; now it's in the low 50s," said John Mangano. Today's kids, said brother Frank Jr., "are not interested in using their hands to create little structures." Now I don't know how anyone else may feel about this, but there is much truth in what he says. We do live in a changing world and perhaps the demographic in this hobby is aging. Anyone have any information on that?
Now I don't know how anyone else may feel about this, but there is much truth in what he says.
We do live in a changing world and perhaps the demographic in this hobby is aging. Anyone have any information on that?
Sure do, Harold. Here's what one finds from 50 years of readers' surveys published by our host Model Railroader magazine regarding the average age of hobbyists:
1944-1974 a very consistant 33 years of age; with 20% of hobbyists being teens and only 5% of hobbyists over 50, in 1950!
1979 37 years of age
1984 40 years of age
1989 44 years of age
1993 47 years of age
Extrapolating this trend to the present day gives an anticipated average age very close to 60. The numbers infer very little in the way of "new blood" entering the hobby after the late 1970's.
No I don't buy car kits to put together anymore, but I do buy RTR and for a lot more money as I tend to buy ones on the higher end like Proto 2000. I used to buy MDC and upgrade them. I used to buy steam engines and have to build them, Now Spectrum is my low end steam. As for their demographics, you can make the numbers say anything, an example we had 200,000,000 pop in 1970 and almost 280,000,000 in 2000, lets round it up to 300,000,000 to make it easy. Lets say there were 100,000 model railroaders in 1970 (I could not find the real numbers this fast) and 125,000 in 2000, demographic say that the model railroaders lost percentage points but in reality they gained 25%. Now the part about organizations losing members is true but the reasons are not an aging population but that these organizations chose not to cater to younger members. Young people need family events, no family events, no new young members. Also why would one voluntarily subject oneself to criticism in person where it hurts alot more, instead of the anonymous Internet. Last even on the Internet people are not always nice and clicks abound!
Sorry, rrebell, but we are not talking about hobbyist numbers here, we are addressing the question of average age and all your numbers (which are totally hypothetical to begin with) can't change the facts.
I'm afraid that it's always the folks who can't stand to face the reality of what the published figures imply who are the first to scream that statistics lie, or have no meaning. Face it, if anybody would honestly know the real numbers, it would have to be Kalmbach/Model Railroader. Why would they publish lies?
CNJ831I'm afraid that it's always the folks who can't stand to face the reality of what the published figures imply who are the first to scream that statistics lie, or have no meaning. Face it, if anybody would honestly know the real numbers, it would have to be Kalmbach/Model Railroader. Why would they publish lies? CNJ831
I don't need numbers to show me the truth. I've got kids, and they have lots of friends. They all play video games. Not a one of them builds models or has anything to do with trains. Yes, I know there are teens and young adults out there in the model railroad genre, but they are few and far between. Just look at the demographics here. Mostly old farts and middle age has beens myself included
CNJ831I'm afraid that it's always the folks who can't stand to face the reality of what the published figures imply who are the first to scream that statistics lie, or have no meaning. Face it, if anybody would honestly know the real numbers, it would have to be Kalmbach/Model Railroader. Why would they publish lies?
That's the thing about this. Everytime someone comes up with something there will be the kvetchers who will not try to understand these things. I'm rather tired of looking at the same old tired arguments about how statistics lie and etc. Rather than trot out the same tired BS about them come up with a logical reason why the figures are wrong.
Sheeesh. Even the LHS that sited the very age of their clientele going up must mean something. I know of one model car store that told me the exact same thing----that the market is aging.
Deal with it----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
@ RPoteet,
In case someone here hasn't edumacted you yet, the XBOX is a video game console. Why do you care? Because this is what is stealing the younger generation away from hobby's like model trains and other things. My older sisters two sons (18 and 21) are totally addicted, as are their friendsd and most other boys between the age of 12 and 30. I suppose if we don't want the hobby to age out, we need to evangelize the younger generation, take some under our wings and get them interested. Else the hobby will slowly fade to a curiosity. The past 10-15 years have been boom years for trains because the train nuts are men who are old enough to have the money and no rug rats around so they can patronize the products coming out. When that generation is gone, there will probably be a lot less buying trains and what is being sold now will be sought after by those few who are still interested.
germanium If you only buy from Internet box-shifters because you judge merely on price, then don't be surprised if LHS's disappear. An LHS is a business, and can't survive on marginal sales from an occasional passing customer. So put your money where your mouth is, and buy from them if you want them to survive, else zip your mouth and quit moaning ! Dennis
You won't hear me moaning. As much as I like to go into a shop and look at things up close and personal, I don't have any shops near me in Chantilly Virginia (west DC suburbs). When I lived up in central NY, there were a couple shops but only one long standing one, and the prices were high and lets face it, there wasn't much in stock for a western modeler anyway. I have had to turn to mail order/internet purchasing to make the hobby more affordable for me and to get the rolling stock that I need that isn't typically ordered on the east coast. When I lived in New York state, there was the mentality that we should support our LHS as which is fine if you can afford to, but my pockets aren't bulging. I'll let those who are more well off than me "support" the LHS. Most working class saps can't afford to treat the LHS like a charity and have a hard enough time being in the hobby and paying their housing bills, insurance, food, medical, kids college tuition, and on and on. No moaning from me.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
And on our youth "paraphrased", children today have bad manners, contempt for authority, very disrespectful and tyrannize their teachers; Socrates!