mononguy63I disagree to a large extent. I'm not the least interested in DCC, so DC's a given. Tucked in a basement corner is the only location where I could build, so that's a given. I'm a lone wolf, and there's nobody in my circle of family & friend who's interested in model railroading, so single operator is a given. I'll concede that the other points are probably Druthers, though.
You have (had) a choice between "DC" and "DCC", you *chose* DC, so that makes it a Druther.
You have clarified that "in the corner of the basement" is the only place you could build-- so you're right, that sounds like a given.
mononguy63there's nobody in my circle of family & friend who's interested in model railroading, so single operator is a given
Let's hold out hope.... and call that a druther!
John
fiatfan I read an article back in the early '60s in MR with a tag line that said something to the effect of "My railroad just sort of grew." So when I finally had a chance to build I put up benchwork to define the area and then started "growing."First up was a small three track yard. OK, that will go here. Now I need a drill track for the yard. From there we need to get over to where the mainline comes in to town. And on the way, let's put in a siding here for some industries. OK, this works. To add a couple more industries and to add to the general confusion, let's put a couple industries on the drill track, oh, and another one on the track leading to the mainline. It may not be a very realistic plan but it does add a lot of switching moves to a small layout.
I read an article back in the early '60s in MR with a tag line that said something to the effect of "My railroad just sort of grew." So when I finally had a chance to build I put up benchwork to define the area and then started "growing."
First up was a small three track yard. OK, that will go here. Now I need a drill track for the yard. From there we need to get over to where the mainline comes in to town. And on the way, let's put in a siding here for some industries. OK, this works. To add a couple more industries and to add to the general confusion, let's put a couple industries on the drill track, oh, and another one on the track leading to the mainline. It may not be a very realistic plan but it does add a lot of switching moves to a small layout.
That's definitely the way my "temporary" layout is growing. I've encountered some delays in working on the permanent layout-- so I've taken advantage of the benchwork I've got, and some pink foam and Atlas Code 100 track laying around to throw together something quick and simple to operate on while I'm otherwise engaged.
fiatfanOK, let's get this train out of town. I
Yup, that's what I finally got around to doing this past weekend. I had some other benchwork sections already completed and just waiting for the wall space to mount them, so I figured "what the heck" and cut legs to put underneath them. Now they're freestanding. Not in their final configuration, but so what-- lay some more pink foam on top and now the "temporary layout" has some new "temporary" real estate to fill up. The one caveat I have to be careful about is to not get too carried away in the new "temporary" space since its occupying the section of the basement I have to finish "finishing" so I can get back to work on really finishing the permanent layout. I noticed yesterday while I was working that if I'm not careful I could really be shooting myself in the foot since I have to close up the duct work overhead, redo the ceiling, rebuild the perimeter stud walls, and re-tile the floor. The tile is the biggest hold-up, but also so is the bulkhead around the ductwork, since I want to lay in some signal wiring (CAT-5E) while its open.
fiatfanMy operational scheme is quite simple. I have an index car with a paper clip attached for each car on the layout.
I want to start doing "operations" but haven't gotten my act together well-enough yet to actually do it. I'm getting there though-- and I did actually buy some index cards the other day to get started. So I'm getting there I suppose.
jwhitten You have (had) a choice between "DC" and "DCC", you *chose* DC, so that makes it a Druther. Let's hold out hope.... and call that a druther!
Ah, but we live in a world today that is driven by relativism, with an alarming paucity of absolutes. So might one be able to argue that one man's Given is another man's Druther?
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
mononguy63Those are good goals and surprisingly easy to achieve. I had much the same desire on my own layout. Note the three tunnel portals in this photo:
Those are good goals and surprisingly easy to achieve. I had much the same desire on my own layout. Note the three tunnel portals in this photo:
Uh... I see four portals..... (I guess I'm special ...)
That is a really nice layout you've got going there-- I can't wait to see it when you get it further along!
I agree with you about the rail-fanning aspect. That's why I designed a leg down around to the bottom of the basement and on through to my office. I plan on making the section around my desk "super sweet" for rail-fanning so I can sit (when I'm busy) and just watch the trains go by.
Just don't tell my wife-- I told her "its an integral section that I can't live without..."
jwhittenUh... I see four portals.....
No, you see three portals and piles of junk
jwhittenI can't wait to see it when you get it further along!
Yeah, me too...
jwhittenI agree with you about the rail-fanning aspect. That's why I designed a leg down around to the bottom of the basement and on through to my office. I plan on making the section around my desk "super sweet" for rail-fanning so I can sit (when I'm busy) and just watch the trains go by. Just don't tell my wife-- I told her "its an integral section that I can't live without..."
Yes, you might say the railfanning section is an absolute given...
Jim
mononguy63jwhittenUh... I see four portals..... No, you see three portals and piles of junk
Actually I see four portals-- two in the lower left, one about dead center (slightly to the left), and one in the way back a bit left of center.
How did I develop my track plan? I'll let you know when/if I ever get it done. So far, I've tried every approach known to mankind, and nothing works very well for me.
I wish there was some kind of miniature reusable "flextrack", i.e. not real track, just a flat, narrow thin, bendable material that I use to try quick and easy mock ups. So far, the best thing I've found is snap track, but that gets a bit expensive and it's not miniature.
- Harry
HarryHotspur How did I develop my track plan? I'll let you know when/if I ever get it done. So far, I've tried every approach known to mankind, and nothing works very well for me.I wish there was some kind of miniature reusable "flextrack", i.e. not real track, just a flat, narrow thin, bendable material that I use to try quick and easy mock ups. So far, the best thing I've found is snap track, but that gets a bit expensive and it's not miniature.
You and me both Bud, I know exactly where you're coming from! I haven't been able to develop a track plan for anything-- although I'm able to lay it okay and reasonably happy with the results (so far).
I'm with you on wishing for a reusable flex track too-- something you could lengthen or shorten (without saws or cutters) and use over and over as needed.
And you can't do easements with snap track either.
However, all that said, here is what I'm doing that *IS* beginning to work for me....
After studying my layout space (my basement) at considerable length, measuring it forty-seven different ways from Sunday and creating elaborate CAD models and such-- I've been thinking very *locally* about the layout-- I've already done the work to figure out my region / locale, era, theme, operating conditions, geography, etc., and am well familiar with my "Givens & Druthers" so now I'm down to the part where I have to figure out *exactly* __WHAT it is that I WANT__ Meaning the exact industries, the exact items, select and choose the exact buildings along with whatever associated trackwork that goes along with them, and figure out where / how to fit it in.
That, it seems, is the key which is allowing me to make decisions, select structures and design *localized* elements for inclusion on the layout. And those, in turn, are suggesting location, routing, and "inter-dependent placement" (as in a town, for instance).
I have been making drawings of buildings, complete with outbuildings, subordinate structures, driveways, sidewalks, anything that juts up or out, trackage, fence lines, etc-- and delineating boundaries. In some cases I've had to do that several times over-- but I'm taking it one-by-one for each item I want to place on the layout somewhere-- drawing it up, working out all of the localized details, and then finding, much to my amazement, that it sort of suggests a location on its own. And when I put several drawings together they seem to "fit" better-- not completely without contention, but at least well enough that I can start to think about and resolve whatever issues are there.
For the very first time I am making real and significant progress with my track plan. I don't know if its the new approach that's doing it, or if it was inevitable that I would eventually get to the point where it would start working itself out-- but whichever, I'm happy about it. And having fun doing it too.
jwhittenActually I see four portals-- two in the lower left, one about dead center (slightly to the left), and one in the way back a bit left of center.
Oh yeah, that one.... It's a double-track portal that is now half-buried in a hillside and serving as an arched road overpass. So technically, it's not a tunnel portal anymore.
BTW, John, kudos to you for your fun and interesting postings and discussion. Nicely done, and keep going.
mononguy63jwhittenActually I see four portals-- two in the lower left, one about dead center (slightly to the left), and one in the way back a bit left of center. Oh yeah, that one.... It's a double-track portal that is now half-buried in a hillside and serving as an arched road overpass. So technically, it's not a tunnel portal anymore.
Heh, well that depends on who you're asking-- my kid (who's nearly three) *insists* that bridges (highway overpasses) are "Tundles" (I love that word-- its entered my lexicon now)
mononguy63BTW, John, kudos to you for your fun and interesting postings and discussion. Nicely done, and keep going.
Thank you much for the kind words, I appreciate it!
I do very much enjoy the "Philosophy Friday" discussions myself also. I really like listening and hearing everybody's take on things, and I learn a lot in the process.
No plan whatsoever, it just evolved.
Started as a single track oval on a 4x8 table, quickly grew to an 8x12 double mainline, then a bridge over to a 12 x 8 annex, still grew more to an added 18 x3 run, then finally a 4 x12 passenger station annex was added. Later tore it down and rebuilt it as a 22x42 P-shaped dogbone with 9 track freight yard, 5 track passenger car yard, an engine servicing facility, a130 foot turntable and a 9 stall roundhouse.
Alton Junction
jwhittenTexas ZepherSailormatlacwe are always modelling the "extraordinary" instead of the ordinary.Too many extreme exceptions and not enough rule. ... don't have enough of the typical locomotives in the common schemes to make it look right. Agreed, except there's also the point that it can go to far in the "real life" direction and end up looking boring.
Texas ZepherSailormatlacwe are always modelling the "extraordinary" instead of the ordinary.Too many extreme exceptions and not enough rule. ... don't have enough of the typical locomotives in the common schemes to make it look right.
Sailormatlacwe are always modelling the "extraordinary" instead of the ordinary.
Texas Zepher I know a fellow who did a "real life" layout. He took a real place and recreated it foot by scale foot. He was able to fit a single siding (about 1/4 scale mile long) and two spurs of the prototype into the avaliable space. It took forever just to perform a run around move at scale speed and set out a single car at the mine tipple. The locomotive had to stop at each turnout and wait so that the swichman had time to climb down out of the cab, walk over throw the turnout, and climb back onto the loco. It was the most boring "operating" session I have ever witnessed.
Ugh.
I think I'd be tempted to head for the door at 1:1 scale speed.
John,
How much time do you have??
My room is 13’ X 22’. I wanted an operations based point to point track plan with the longest mainline that I could muster given that I didn’t want to pass through a scene more than once and that I wanted to maintain a high level of scenic integrity and detail. I actively drew track plans on paper using the planning stencil for at least six months before I came up with a design that I liked.
I stole the operations plan from a friend of mine whose layout I had operated on for several years prior to designing this one. The basic idea is that of a short line with harassment from mainline trains. Short line trains originate at the yard on the lower deck and make their way to the top deck where they pick up and deliver various goods etc. The design allows for mainline through freights that interchange at the yard on the bottom deck. This means I can have cab forwards and all the old beat up short line stuff that I love on the same railroad.
I ended up designing a double deck layout with a lower third level for staging. The layout is around the walls with a peninsula in the middle. Staging is under the peninsula and is approached by a helix form one end and a hidden grade from the other. The helix is two helixes in one. One section brings trains up from staging and the second level moves trains from one deck to the next. The second helix level is double tracked to allow serial staging. Both levels have loops to allow for continuous running during open houses. There are reversing loops on both levels as well as wyes to allow for the changing of direction of trains on both levels. There are in all eight staging sidings with a total length of 150’ (300 cars). There is around 300 feet of hidden track. The track plan ended up being very complex and I used lots of calculations to keep grades reasonable and under or at 2%, minimum radius at 30” and min switch frog at no.6.
While designing the layout I went through all of my books and cherry picked scenes from a variety of west coast railroads to model. The upper deck incorporates scenes from the Yosemite Valley R.R., Hetch-Hetchy Railroad, Sierra R.R. and the Westside R.R.. I chose trains to run pretty early on in the design phase and made sure I had adequate tracks etc to accommodate the traffic I envisioned. The bottom deck is modeled after the Central Valley and includes a HWY 99 scene, a cannery scene from Modesto (interchanging with the WP) and a scene in the foot hills. Most of the scenes have been modified to fit the space and overall track plan.
Building this double deck layout has proven to be very complex and time consuming. Each part is dependent on another and thus the layout has to be finished as a whole rather than complete one section, move to the next. This means lots of time working on one construction stage until the entire layout is done (wiring, track laying, lighting, fascia etc). I have found this to be taxing my inspiration at times, as I primarily enjoy model building a running trains. If I had a choice again, I would try to find a larger space and not go double deck.
The infrastructure is complete and moving towards scenery construction.. I have had a couple of operating sessions on the line and it has worked pretty much as I had envisioned. I have scratch built a couple of turntables, put in a swing gate and countless other tasks to get the layout up and running.
Here is a link to construction of my swing gate and turntable:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/127351.aspx?PageIndex=1
Here is another link to a discussion of the design of my Yard and HWY 99 scene
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/152950/1692995.aspx#1692995
Here is an old shot on the West side of the room. The yard is on the left, Modesto on the right bottom. Hetch Hetchy junction is on the top, Mountain King mine is on the right upper deck Staging is visible underneath the center deck left
This shot is on the East side of the room Helix at the back End of the line Groveland is on the top deck Right. Foothills along the lower left, highline above
The only track plan I have is in pencil. Someday I will put it in electronic form. Currently there always seem to be more pressing things to do.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Looks great from here, Guy! You have some fine looking benchwork and your train room is awesome. Is there a helix on both ends?
Bob
IronGoat Looks great from here, Guy! You have some fine looking benchwork and your train room is awesome. Is there a helix on both ends? Bob
Bob,
Thanks for the kind words. There is only one helix. The trains get to the top of the line at Groveland and then turn the loco on a turntable for the return trip. Trains too big to turn at Groveland cut off to left of the second picture and go back down the helix via a hidden return track. Ops sessions are designed for small trains on the upper deck so the hidden return is generally not used during operating sessions.