Philosophy Friday -- How did you develop your track plan?

[trainnut1250]

IronGoat

Looks great from here, Guy!  You have some fine looking benchwork and your train room is awesome. Is there a helix on both ends?

Bob

 

 

Bob,

 

Thanks for the kind words.  There is only one helix.  The trains get to the top of the line at Groveland and then turn the loco on a turntable for the return trip.  Trains too big to turn at Groveland cut off to left of the second picture and go back down the helix via a hidden return track.  Ops sessions are designed for small trains on the upper deck so the hidden return is generally not used during operating sessions.

 Guy

[MudHen_462]

Looks great from here, Guy!  You have some fine looking benchwork and your train room is awesome. Is there a helix on both ends?

Bob

 

 

[trainnut1250]

John,

 

How much time do you have??

 

My room is 13’ X 22’.  I wanted an operations based point to point track plan with the longest mainline that I could muster given that I didn’t want to pass through a scene more than once and that I wanted to maintain a high level of scenic integrity and detail.  I actively drew track plans on paper using the planning stencil for at least six months before I came up with a design that I liked.

 

I stole the operations plan from a friend of mine whose layout I had operated on for several years prior to designing this one.   The basic idea is that of a short line with harassment from mainline trains.  Short line trains originate at the yard on the lower deck and make their way to the top deck where they pick up and deliver various goods etc.  The design allows for mainline through freights that interchange at the yard on the bottom deck.  This means I can have cab forwards and all the old beat up short line stuff that I love on the same railroad.

 

I ended up designing a double deck layout with a lower third level for staging.  The layout is around the walls with a peninsula in the middle. Staging is under the peninsula and is approached by a helix form one end and a hidden grade from the other.  The helix is two helixes in one.  One section brings trains up from staging and the second level moves trains from one deck to the next.  The second helix level is double tracked to allow serial staging. Both levels have loops to allow for continuous running during open houses.  There are reversing loops on both levels as well as wyes to allow for the changing of direction of trains on both levels. There are in all eight staging sidings with a total length of 150’ (300 cars).  There is around 300 feet of hidden track. The track plan ended up being very complex and I used lots of calculations to keep grades reasonable and under or at 2%, minimum radius at 30” and min switch frog at no.6.

 

While designing the layout I went through all of my books and cherry picked scenes from a variety of west coast railroads to model.  The upper deck incorporates scenes from the Yosemite Valley R.R., Hetch-Hetchy Railroad, Sierra R.R. and the Westside R.R..  I chose trains to run pretty early on in the design phase and made sure I had adequate tracks etc to accommodate the traffic I envisioned.  The bottom deck is modeled after the Central Valley and includes a HWY 99 scene, a cannery scene from Modesto (interchanging with the WP) and a scene in the foot hills.  Most of the scenes have been modified to fit the space and overall track plan.

 

Building this double deck layout has proven to be very complex and time consuming.  Each part is dependent on another and thus the layout has to be finished as a whole rather than complete one section, move to the next.  This means lots of time working on one construction stage until the entire layout is done (wiring, track laying, lighting, fascia etc).  I have found this to be taxing my inspiration at times, as I primarily enjoy model building a running trains.  If I had a choice again, I would try to find a larger space and not go double deck. 

 

The infrastructure is complete and moving towards scenery construction..  I have had a couple of operating sessions on the line and it has worked pretty much as I had envisioned.  I have scratch built a couple of turntables, put in a swing gate and countless other tasks to get the layout up and running.

 

Here is a link to construction of my swing gate and turntable:

 

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/127351.aspx?PageIndex=1

  

Here is another link to a discussion of the design of my Yard and HWY 99 scene

 

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/152950/1692995.aspx#1692995

   

Here is an old shot on the West side of the room.  The yard is on the left, Modesto on the right bottom.  Hetch Hetchy junction is on the top, Mountain King mine is on the right upper deck Staging is visible underneath the center deck left

 

 

This shot is on the East side of the room Helix at the back End of the line Groveland is on the top deck Right.  Foothills along the lower left, highline above

   

The only track plan I have is in pencil. Someday I will put it in electronic form.  Currently there always seem to be more pressing things to do.

 

Guy

 

[jwhitten]

Texas Zepher

  I know a fellow who did a "real life" layout.  He took a real place and recreated it foot by scale foot.  He was able to fit a single siding (about 1/4 scale mile long) and two spurs of the prototype into the avaliable space.  It took forever just to perform a run around move at scale speed and set out a single car at the mine tipple.   The locomotive had to stop at each turnout and wait so that the swichman had time to climb down out of the cab, walk over throw the turnout, and climb back onto the loco.  It was the most boring "operating" session I have ever witnessed.

 

 

Ugh.

I think I'd be tempted to head for the door at 1:1 scale speed.

 

[Texas Zepher]

jwhitten

Texas Zepher

Sailormatlac

we are always modelling the "extraordinary" instead of the ordinary.

Too many extreme exceptions and not enough rule.  ...  don't have enough of the typical locomotives in the common schemes to make it look right.

 Agreed, except there's also the point that it can go to far in the "real life" direction and end up looking boring. 

Absolutely.  I know a fellow who did a "real life" layout.  He took a real place and recreated it foot by scale foot.  He was able to fit a single siding (about 1/4 scale mile long) and two spurs of the prototype into the avaliable space.  It took forever just to perform a run around move at scale speed and set out a single car at the mine tipple.   The locomotive had to stop at each turnout and wait so that the swichman had time to climb down out of the cab, walk over throw the turnout, and climb back onto the loco.  It was the most boring "operating" session I have ever witnessed.

[richhotrain]

No plan whatsoever, it just evolved. 

Started as a single track oval on a 4x8 table, quickly grew to an 8x12 double mainline, then a bridge over to a 12 x 8 annex, still grew more to an added 18 x3 run, then finally a 4 x12 passenger station annex was added.  Later tore it down and rebuilt it as a 22x42 P-shaped dogbone with 9 track freight yard, 5 track passenger car yard, an engine servicing facility, a130 foot turntable and a 9 stall roundhouse.

[jwhitten]

mononguy63

jwhitten

Actually I see four portals-- two in the lower left, one about dead center (slightly to the left), and one in the way back a bit left of center.

Oh yeah, that one....  It's a double-track portal that is now half-buried in a hillside and serving as an arched road overpass. So technically, it's not a tunnel portal anymore.

 

 

Heh, well that depends on who you're asking-- my kid (who's nearly three) *insists* that bridges (highway overpasses) are "Tundles" (I love that word-- its entered my lexicon now) 

 

 

mononguy63

BTW, John, kudos to you for your fun and interesting postings and discussion. Nicely done, and keep going.

 Thank you much for the kind words, I appreciate it!

I do very much enjoy the "Philosophy Friday" discussions myself also. I really like listening and hearing everybody's take on things, and I learn a lot in the process.

[mononguy63]

jwhitten

Actually I see four portals-- two in the lower left, one about dead center (slightly to the left), and one in the way back a bit left of center.

Oh yeah, that one....  It's a double-track portal that is now half-buried in a hillside and serving as an arched road overpass. So technically, it's not a tunnel portal anymore.

BTW, John, kudos to you for your fun and interesting postings and discussion. Nicely done, and keep going.

Jim

[jwhitten]

HarryHotspur

 How did I develop my track plan?  I'll let you know when/if I ever get it done.    So far, I've tried every approach known to mankind, and nothing works very well for me.

I wish there was some kind of miniature reusable "flextrack", i.e. not real track, just a flat, narrow thin, bendable material that I use to try quick and easy mock ups.  So far, the best thing I've found is snap track, but that gets a bit expensive and it's not miniature.

 

 

You and me both Bud, I know exactly where you're coming from! I haven't been able to develop a track plan for anything-- although I'm able to lay it okay and reasonably happy with the results (so far). 

I'm with you on wishing for a reusable flex track too-- something you could lengthen or shorten (without saws or cutters) and use over and over as needed.

And you can't do easements with snap track either.

 

However, all that said, here is what I'm doing that *IS* beginning to work for me....

 

After studying my layout space (my basement) at considerable length, measuring it forty-seven different ways from Sunday and creating elaborate CAD models and such-- I've been thinking very *locally* about the layout-- I've already done the work to figure out my region / locale, era,  theme, operating conditions, geography, etc., and am well familiar with my "Givens & Druthers" so now I'm down to the part where I have to figure out *exactly* __WHAT it is that I WANT__ Meaning the exact industries, the exact items, select and choose the exact buildings along with whatever associated trackwork that goes along with them, and figure out where / how to fit it in.

That, it seems, is the key which is allowing me to make decisions, select structures and design *localized* elements for inclusion on the layout. And those, in turn, are suggesting location, routing, and "inter-dependent placement" (as in a town, for instance). 

I have been making drawings of buildings, complete with outbuildings, subordinate structures, driveways, sidewalks, anything that juts up or out, trackage, fence lines, etc-- and delineating boundaries. In some cases I've had to do that several times over-- but I'm taking it one-by-one for each item I want to place on the layout somewhere-- drawing it up, working out all of the localized details, and then finding, much to my amazement, that it sort of suggests a location on its own. And when I put several drawings together they seem to "fit" better-- not completely without contention, but at least well enough that I can start to think about and resolve whatever issues are there.

For the very first time I am making real and significant progress with my track plan. I don't know if its the new approach that's doing it, or if it was inevitable that I would eventually get to the point where it would start working itself out-- but whichever, I'm happy about it. And having fun doing it too.

 

John

[HarryHotspur]

 How did I develop my track plan?  I'll let you know when/if I ever get it done.    So far, I've tried every approach known to mankind, and nothing works very well for me.

I wish there was some kind of miniature reusable "flextrack", i.e. not real track, just a flat, narrow thin, bendable material that I use to try quick and easy mock ups.  So far, the best thing I've found is snap track, but that gets a bit expensive and it's not miniature.

[jwhitten]

mononguy63

jwhitten

Uh... I see four portals..... 

No, you see three portals and piles of junk

 

 

Actually I see four portals-- two in the lower left, one about dead center (slightly to the left), and one in the way back a bit left of center.

[mononguy63]

jwhitten

Uh... I see four portals..... 

No, you see three portals and piles of junk

jwhitten

I can't wait to see it when you get it further along!

 Yeah, me too... 

jwhitten

I agree with you about the rail-fanning aspect. That's why I designed a leg down around to the bottom of the basement and on through to my office. I plan on making the section around my desk "super sweet" for rail-fanning so I can sit (when I'm busy) and just watch the trains go by.

Just don't tell my wife-- I told her "its an integral section that I can't live without..."

Yes, you might say the railfanning section is an absolute given...

Jim

[jwhitten]

mononguy63

Those are good goals and surprisingly easy to achieve. I had much the same desire on my own layout. Note the three tunnel portals in this photo:

 

 

Uh... I see four portals..... (I guess I'm special ...)

 

 That is a really nice layout you've got going there-- I can't wait to see it when you get it further along!

I agree with you about the rail-fanning aspect. That's why I designed a leg down around to the bottom of the basement and on through to my office. I plan on making the section around my desk "super sweet" for rail-fanning so I can sit (when I'm busy) and just watch the trains go by.

Just don't tell my wife-- I told her "its an integral section that I can't live without..."

 

John

 

 

[mononguy63]

jwhitten

You have (had) a choice between "DC" and "DCC", you *chose* DC, so that makes it a Druther.

 Let's hold out hope.... and call that a druther!

Ah, but we live in a world today that is driven by relativism, with an alarming paucity of absolutes. So might one be able to argue that one man's Given is another man's Druther?

[jwhitten]

fiatfan

 I read an article back in the early '60s in MR with a tag line that said something to the effect of "My railroad just sort of grew."  So when I finally had a chance to build I put up benchwork to define the area and then started "growing."

First up was a small three track yard.  OK, that will go here.  Now I need a drill track for the yard.  From there we need to get over to where the mainline comes in to town.  And on the way, let's put in a siding here for some industries.  OK, this works.  To add a couple more industries and to add to the general confusion, let's put a couple industries on the drill track, oh, and another one on the track leading to the mainline.  It may not be a very realistic plan but it does add a lot of switching moves to a small layout.

 

 That's definitely the way my "temporary" layout is growing. I've encountered some delays in working on the permanent layout-- so I've taken advantage of the benchwork I've got, and some pink foam and Atlas Code 100 track laying around to throw together something quick and simple to operate on while I'm otherwise engaged.

 

 

fiatfan

OK, let's get this train out of town.  I

Yup, that's what I finally got around to doing this past weekend. I had some other benchwork sections already completed and just waiting for the wall space to mount them, so I figured "what the heck" and cut legs to put underneath them. Now they're freestanding. Not in their final configuration, but so what-- lay some more pink foam on top and now the "temporary layout" has some new "temporary" real estate to fill up. The one caveat I have to be careful about is to not get too carried away in the new "temporary" space since its occupying the section of the basement I have to finish "finishing" so I can get back to work on really finishing the permanent layout. I noticed yesterday while I was working that if I'm not careful I could really be shooting myself in the foot since I have to close up the duct work overhead, redo the ceiling, rebuild the perimeter stud walls, and re-tile the floor. The tile is the biggest hold-up, but also so is the bulkhead around the ductwork, since I want to lay in some signal wiring (CAT-5E) while its open.

 

 

fiatfan

My operational scheme is quite simple.  I have an index car with a paper clip attached for each car on the layout.

 I want to start doing "operations" but haven't gotten my act together well-enough yet to actually do it. I'm getting there though-- and I did actually buy some index cards the other day to get started. So I'm getting there I suppose.

 

 

John

[jwhitten]

mononguy63

I disagree to a large extent. I'm not the least interested in DCC, so DC's a given. Tucked in a basement corner is the only location where I could build, so that's a given. I'm a lone wolf, and there's nobody in my circle of family & friend who's interested in model railroading, so single operator is a given. I'll concede that the other points are probably Druthers, though.

 

 

You have (had) a choice between "DC" and "DCC", you *chose* DC, so that makes it a Druther.

You have clarified that "in the corner of the basement" is the only place you could build-- so you're right, that sounds like a given.

 

mononguy63

there's nobody in my circle of family & friend who's interested in model railroading, so single operator is a given

 Let's hold out hope.... and call that a druther!

 

John

 

[jwhitten]

UncBob

 That's the problem

I didn't 

 

Now I have tracked myself into a corner

 

 

Maybe you could sell your house and start another one???

 

John

[jwhitten]

Texas Zepher

Sailormatlac

 It took me something like 20 years to finally understand that we are always modelling the "extraordinary" instead of the ordinary.

And if you never learn another thing in MRing you will still have more understanding than a vast majority of the modelers.

This manifests itself often in the freelance world where someone says, "I'll make up some exception for every thing that tickles my fancy."  The layout ends up looking bizarre and toy like.  Too many extreme exceptions an not enough rule.  Or a prototypical modeler who collects all the one off paint schemes or unique locomotives and they don't have enough of the typical locomotives in the common schemes to make it look right.

 

 

Agreed, except there's also the point that it can go to far in the "real life" direction and end up looking boring. 

Something an old GF said once in another context really stopped and made me think, and its applicable here too-- she said "People go to the movies to escape real life"-- and I think people build model railroads to escape real life too. Maybe to go back in time, or to a place they have fond memories of, or to a "simpler world", or maybe somewhere that reminds them of someone they miss. 

I think, just like with the movies-- too much "real life" on a model railroad is too much like "real life"-- and that's what people are trying to get away from for awhile.

 

John

[jwhitten]

leighant

But then an inlaw lost his apartment and moved into the "spare" bedroom.

 

 

That's when you're supposed to say: "Son, how good are you at swinging a hammer... ???"

 

 

 

leighant

 

 I said it last time and I'll say it again-- I *love* the way you disguised the corner. That is *very* good work !!!!

 

 

leighant

 

Nice granary! I can't wait to see that when you get it ready.

 

John

[jwhitten]

wm3798

The trickiest part in all of it is thinking three dimensionally.  Making sure you have the clearances you need without requiring ridiculous grades or situations that compromise the integrity of the scenery.

 

 

In seriousness, one of the things that helped me immensely-- something that I didn't plan for but just happened to have all the materials around serendipitously-- is a lot of 1-inch tall by 8-feet masonite strips that I cut for eventual use as spline roadbed, and a lot of pre-cut 1x2-inch lumber sections for use as joists, and a ton of clamps.

Whenever I get to the point in my thinking that some visualization is required, I mock it up with the wood-- whatever is required to get a "space platform" to work with, and then use miniature clips-- I have a ton of little $0.99 cent metal clips and also the smaller $0.33 cent clips from Home Depot, and another ton of regular wooden clothes pins-- and I use them along with the lumber to hoist into place the masonite strips which represents the right-of-way.

Since its ultimately intended for use as roadbed anyway, you know whatever it can do you can really do. And it doesn't take much time to mock it up and check it out. And since its all clipped or clamped together, its easy to move around, adjust, rearrange-- whatever to see how this would look or that-- and you yourself know this since I've sent you pictures before of my mock-ups.

You can also use cardboard strips to put view blocks where you want them-- just use the clothes pins to pin them together and an occasional large clip to attach them to the wooden structure. Add a ruler and you have everything you need.

If you want, you could even lay some track and hazard an old car you don't care much about--I suspect anybody building a layout has one of those-- or will soon...

 

John

[jwhitten]

 

wm3798

 

In my train room, the planning always starts with the room.  Afterall, it's the room, and the space available that drives most of the design decisions.  In my case, the main limitation of the room is that it's in the attic, so I've got 45 degree sloped ceilings to contend with.  That forced my table height to be lower than I'd like, and seriously limited my ability to do add an upper deck for ops and a lower deck for staging.

 

You sound like you're in need of some Whitten Wisdom previously dispensed...... 

 

I really don't understand everyone's lack of imagination and inspiration. Sure, even the best of us will get down in the dumps once in awhile-- but you can't let lack of a basement or an undersized bedroom keep you away from your love of the hobby. So what if your wife needs the spare bedroom for a sewing room? So what if your dreams and aspirations are bigger than your basement-- you can't let a little thing like THAT get you down, no sir-- not when there's the ROOF to consider...

You gotta admit, most people don't ever consider the largest single section of square-footage they own. There are generally very few encumberances, perhaps a chimney or a standpipe or two (don't stick your nose in one, btw-- don't ask me how I know...) Its flat, its big, its wide-open and just begging for some tracks! True, in some cases it may be slanted, but you know, sometimes you just have to play the hand you've been dealt. Stop looking a gift-horse in the mouth and all that. Afterall you did just discover 800-1200 sq feet you've never thought of before. You want it to be *level* too??? Besides, you can level it up, just add taller risers on one side is all you need to do.

Another nice thing about modeling on the roof is that visitors don't track mud through your house to get to the layout room. They can just stand out in the yard and see everything. Or maybe if you have a really tall layout, in your neighbor's yard-- and you gotta admit, that'd be better, right?

And when your wife complains that you're not getting "outdoors" enough-- well, that'd shut her right up, wouldn't it? You'd have your nice big layout AND be outdoors at the same time. In fact, the only real problem that might come up is if you like late-night railroading in your underwear... that could be a little delicate.

So the next time some rich SOB tries to make you feel humble with tales of his grand escapades out in his garden railroad-- you can just laugh out loud-- throw it right back and ask him how he likes his puny little backyard garden railroad-- while you're out enjoying yourself in your great, expansive ROOF layout!

Just remember, when things get tough, and the outlook looks bleak, you gotta practice some out-of-the-box thinking... in this case, get out of that basement or that dinky little bedroom... take your dreams and grand ambitions with you-- the future, my boy, lies up, not down-- go *up* young man, go up!

 

[jwhitten]

Sailormatlac

I started with a 4'x4', then a 5'x4'... I rebuilt it twice. Never got satisfied. Then, I decided to opt for a shelf layout with minimal trackage. Less is more said an architect.I read a lot about that and found out how you could keep somebody busy with a few well-planned track.

 

 

I agree with you that its better to have a mixture between areas with lots of track (stuff to do-- switching and whatnot) and areas where the train is just 'traveling through'. It also makes for a nice visual break and gives the observer a chance to take a break and see something different as well as emphasizes the cities and such when they come around. If everything is all city or all country or all track, it makes it harder to actually "see" anything.

 

John

[mononguy63]

Texas Zepher

2. Can disguise the appearance of a train going around in a loop on a board.
    2a.  No track running parallel  to the edge of the board.
    2b.  Use grades, tunnels, and curves to disguise what it really is.

Those are good goals and surprisingly easy to achieve. I had much the same desire on my own layout. Note the three tunnel portals in this photo:

One of the tunnels hides track running parallel to the layout edge. The other two disguise the track going up grade and looping back on itself. You can only see both portals from limited viewing angles, and even then a reasonable-length train will disappear completely into one portal before emerging from the other. Plus, putting all that track under a hill creates more opportunity for scenery to draw one's attention.

Texas Zepher

Layout needs to seem larger than it is so all trains cannot be seen at the same time.

I've found that can be something of a double-edged sword. Sometimes I like to just let trains go and watch them from my work desk while tinkering with my latest project, but I only get glimpses as they pass by from one viewblock to the next!

[jwhitten]

 

tbdanny

I did some research, and found that the town of Las Vegas, in New Mexico (the other Las Vegas) had an AT&SF yard with a roundhouse.  I fired up RTS, and drew up a 9.5 x 4' table, marking out a 7.5x3 area in the middle to house the yard, with a 1' margin for staging.  It currently looks something like this:

 

Interesting track plan-- how does your staging section work? Is that a sector plate or a transverse yard or what?

 

John

[jwhitten]

 A quick aside for the formalities-- which do you prefer: CSX or Mr. Slug???

 

[track plans]

 

That's a really nice railroad you've got there-- er, had there. And I like the improvements you're making too-- looks like its going to end up being a really good layout to operate on. I think you've done a great job of designing a layout around a single industry. Good mix of stuff too.

 

John

[fiatfan]

 I read an article back in the early '60s in MR with a tag line that said something to the effect of "My railroad just sort of grew."  So when I finally had a chance to build I put up benchwork to define the area and then started "growing."

First up was a small three track yard.  OK, that will go here.  Now I need a drill track for the yard.  From there we need to get over to where the mainline comes in to town.  And on the way, let's put in a siding here for some industries.  OK, this works.  To add a couple more industries and to add to the general confusion, let's put a couple industries on the drill track, oh, and another one on the track leading to the mainline.  It may not be a very realistic plan but it does add a lot of switching moves to a small layout.

OK, let's get this train out of town.  I ran a loop of track around the wall and behind the backdrop (where there's a passing siding to allow for staging) to the other town.  Similar philosophies were used to develop the track plan for the second town.

Each town has some street running and multiple industries.   With few exceptions, spotting a cars almost always requires moving another car and then returning it after the move is complete.  One track of the yard is designated as interchange.  Cars spotted there are rotated back in after one round.  Trains are limited to six 40' cars (the length of the sidings), a small to medium size engine (EMD A40's double headed up to a GP9) and a caboose.

Some of the track is along the edge of the layout but most is buried in the scenery behind other buildings, requiring the operator to actually get into the scene to perform the various switching moves.

I did provide a cutoff to allow continuous running for the occasional visitor but that is seldom used.  I also provided a turntable hidden behind the hills (but visible from one spot and one spot only) that allows me to turn engines if needed.

My operational scheme is quite simple.  I have an index car with a paper clip attached for each car on the layout. On the card is listed the possible destinations for that card, using the paper clip to mark its current location.  For an operating session, I grab a handful of cards and move each to the next location listed on that card.  The paper clip gets moved to show the new location and the card is put back in the pile, ready for the next time.  Each industry has a maximum number of cars allowed.  If a move puts the industry over its limit, the card is found for that car which entails and added move to put that car at its next location.  That's not as hard as it sounds since I only have room for about 20-25 cars on the layout.  Not very exciting but it keeps me busy.

 

Tom

[jwhitten]

shayfan84325

I built an N-scale version of the Epithet Creek Railroad

 

Ah, a man of letters.... four though they may be...

 

 

shayfan84325

Having hand-laid the track, I have those plans permanently fused in my mind.  One thing that I really liked about the plan is that the upper terrace of track had a built in limit preventing more than a single loco or car to get there.  It made for interesting switching at first, then it became tedious.

They say that "familiarity breeds contempt".... perhaps that spur marks the beginning of Epithet Creek?

 

 

shayfan84325

[Track Plan]

What kind of equipment do you run on your layout (as though with a name like "ShayFan" I should have to ask... ) Is it mining or logging or both or something else?

 

Do you have pictures?

 

John

 

 

[jwhitten]

 

Texas Zepher

First, I started putting in the scenery and it just didn't work.  Track track track track everywhere and no room for anything else.  Even where I had separated the mains there was not enough to do much of anything.

 Yes, that is a common situation it seems. That is one of my own pet peeves, if it can be characterized as such-- but at the same time I can understand the desire to have lots of track to run and switch trains on. And if space is at a premium, as is all too oft the case, then one or the other has to give way.

 

 

Texas Zepher

Applying everything I had learned.

My want list was something like this:
1. Layout needs to seem larger than it is so all trains cannot be seen at the same time.
2. Can disguise the appearance of a train going around in a loop on a board.
    2a.  No track running parallel  to the edge of the board.
    2b.  Use grades, tunnels, and curves to disguise what it really is.
3. Still have to run the passenger trains on a schedule.
4. I had a really cool mine I had built, detailed, and weathered.  It needed to be the centerpiece of the layout.
5. So the operational concept was the mine was a big operation that had its own railroad which interchanged with the class 1.

 Yes, those seem like reasonable goals. Particularly the ones listed under #2-- people often under-estimate just how nicely shifting tracks away from the edges and introducing curves, even shallow ones, into the mix can make a significant visual improvement. And the judicious (or even downright scandalous) use of tunnels and bridges can go a long way to breaking up the layout and making it seem larger.

 

I'd like to see your coal mine-- do you have any pictures??

 

John

[mononguy63]

jwhitten

mononguy63

Givens: DC, single deck, one operator, tucked into a corner of the basement so it would be accessible on two sides, able to run two trains hands-off

All your Givens are Druthers! 

"Givens" are absolutes and immutables-- things you can't change (or at least not practically or without great expense) that you just have work around. "Druthers" are what you want.

I disagree to a large extent. I'm not the least interested in DCC, so DC's a given. Tucked in a basement corner is the only location where I could build, so that's a given. I'm a lone wolf, and there's nobody in my circle of family & friend who's interested in model railroading, so single operator is a given. I'll concede that the other points are probably Druthers, though.