How many Trains will your layout hold?

[steamage]

 My LA&SFV RR runs four trains, two locals 5-10 cars), a main line freight (20-25 cars) and a passenger (6 cars).  The two locals have specific jobs and routes that they work.  The main line freight is the car holding train being as I don't have any major yards to make up trains.  The locals pick up and drop cars at a siding where the main line freight interacts doing the same.   I try to operate at least 30 minutes a day, its great therapy for mental happiness.

[fwright]

With working separate narrow and standard gauge lines:

• standard gauge can support one local freight servicing the interchange and the harbor, with a passenger train in (visible) staging.  Both cannot be run simultaneously, although the controls will support 2 standard gague cabs.
• narrow gauge can support switching at the harbor and at the lumber mill concurrently, but only 1 train can occupy the main at a time.  I suppose a 3rd operator could be switching the interchange and log landing, but aisle space and current DC controls limit me to 2 operators on the narrow gauge at a time.  One of those operators is switching an area, and is not really a train.
• Pre-staging of empties and loads in hidden cut-of-cars-only staging on the narrow gauge sets up a total of 4 trains plus train make-up and break-up at the mill and harbor before re-staging is required.
• total is 3 operators maximum based on available aisle space, with 2 operators running a standard gauge and a narrow gauge train each, and the third operator switching and making up and breaking up trains at a particular location.

It doesn't matter since I don't have 3 operators yet.  With just me, I run one train at a time, and use sequential operations.  In my personal opinion, operating more than 1 train per operator is a display gimmick for visitors.  And my spare bedroom is pretty crowded as it is with layout and potentially 3 operators.

Fred W

[ratled]

Using the Layout Design Analysis from Joe Fugate's site that Stein mentioned

 http://siskiyou-railfan.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.32

 

here are my stat's

Room Area (sq ft): 99’
Layout Area (sq ft): 62’ (63%)
Number of Turnouts: 26
Total Track (ft/cars): 162’/324
Mainline Track (cars): 128
Passing Track (cars): 36

Storage Track (cars): 64
Staging Track (cars): 64
Service Track (cars): 6
Connecting Track (cars): 18
Passing Sidings: 2
Passing Train Length (cars): 18/9/18
Staging Tracks: 4
Staging Train Length (cars): 18/16/14
Maximum Cars: 116
Cars Moved: 72
Trains: 5.5
Dispatching Threshold: 18 car trains

 

ratled

 

[Silver Pilot]

CNJ831

"Agreed, to a point - but again you assume to know and (sic) a lot about what people you don't even know are doing. - Sheldon" Not at all. It really doesn't take any second sight to understand what folks here, on average, are doing on their layouts. It's been acknowledged in various publications in recent years that no more than 1 in 5 hobbyists does anything that would constitute "systematic operations", while only just 1 in 3 does even simple random switching! Thus, some 2/3 of hobbyists, across the board, are simply running their trains on a whim and now with DCC often more trains than they can actually fully control at one time. In addition, it is mainly the longtime, or the more advanced, hobbyist that practices operations. The majority of folks participating in this site tend to be either entry-level, or casual hobbyists (just look at the sorts of threads posted here and especially those concerning the number of locos owned!). So...indicating that most are simply "running trains" - as opposed to doing "systematic operations" - is almost a certainty, not simply an assumption...and that colors the kind of responses we're getting to the question posed by this thread. P.S. Anyone else having difficulty posting today? All my quotes and paragraphs seem to be running together. CNJ831

I agree with the CNJ831's conclusios about the majority of the people reading and posting on this forum.  The vast majority are not interested in operations, be it timetable, train order, car card etc.  As CNJ stated, just the look at the majority of the type of questions posed on the forum.  Most people here are interesting in running the most trains they can in the space alloted.  The OP is a perfect example of this - he measures a locomotive not by its fidelity to detail, but by how many cars it can pull up what percentage grade and around how tight a radius curve.  He measures a layout not by what the operations it can handle (the layout's ability to act as a miniature transportation system moving trains through its territory and deliver freight to its online customers) instead he measures it by how long it takes the trains to 'make a lap' and how many trains can be run on it at one time. 

As further evidence of CNJ's statement that the majority of hobbyists are more interested in how many trains they can run at once is provided when every the discussion of which DCC system is best (Sorry Sheldon didn;t mean to swear by mentioning DCC).  One of the always mentioned advantages to a Digitrax system is that the DT400 throttle allows an operator to control 2 trains on one throttle simultaneously.  If a person was truly 'operating' on the layout they wouldn't be able to control two trains.

I suspect, based on the photos and descriptions posted by the OP, that the majority of his 'operations' has to do woth running trains in preselected loops of track.  He talks about the "A line", the "B line" and the "C line" which are basicly separately loops of track connected to together.  They may be long enough to run two trains simutaneously, but IMO it doesn't meet the definition of 'operating"

Also in support of CNJ's statement, consider the number of posts by people who talk about having an inner loop and an outer loop of track.  They frequently post about the problems with shorts at the crossover between loops.  These a frequent questions, AND provide insight in to the type and level of modeler that is predominate on this forum.

When you get down to it, the original question posed is ridiculous.  I've seen small switching layouts that occupy several operators for long periods and are more fun to operate than large layouts that are nothing more than a few long loops of track.  The number of trains a layout can 'hold' has no correlation to how good of a layout it is to operate.

[Anonymous]

Silver Pilot

The vast majority are not interested in operations, be it timetable, train order, car card etc. 

 

What makes you come to that conclusion? - this is your own, singular view, based on assumption, not knowledge.

[el-capitan]

My railroad has a 3 track staging yard (for mainline freights), 1 track staging for small passenger train, and is designed to allow for 2 locals operating simultaneously.  So I guess my answer is 6.

However, my layout is intended for realistic operation and not volume. If I filled up every passing siding, industrial spur and yard track with a train, I could probably fit 15 or more. I have no interest in tying up every inch of non-main track with a train though because it would make operation impossible, so it doesn't matter anyway.

[cudaken]

el-capitan

I have no interest in tying up every inch of non-main track with a train though because it would make operation impossible

 

 That is why I started this post. When I saw Sheldon post the number of engines and rolling stock he needs / wants it got me wondering what other people layouts could hold and still be ran.

 It was what I thought was a simple question, guess not.

 As Simon 1966 put it, I am a rail fan. I like to sit back and just watch the trains go around. Nothing wrong with running your layout like a real rail road either

 Thanks for all the answers as well.

                Cuda Ken 

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

cudaken

As Simon 1966 put it, I am a rail fan. I like to sit back and just watch the trains go around.

I like to do both, or should I say all.

I like switching, I like timetable/mainline operation, and I like being a railfan. So I designed a layout for all of these types of operation.

I prefer through stagging over point to point because point to point requires so much setup time and prevents trains from being used a second time in a session (which is particularly usefull with passenger trains - which I like.

I belong to a round robin group and some times decline any jobs and just watch the trains, other times I'm happy to be at the "hub" of hings.

It's ALL fun.

Sheldon

[cudaken]

 When you run switching, timetable and mainline operations, do you do it by your self or with someone?

               Ken

[CNJ831]

Sheldon - I definitely don't regard myself as inordinately negative regarding any of the areas that you indicate. Rather I have expended the time and effort to research historical and current facts regarding the hobby and its on-going evolution, something it appears no one else has bothered to do and why so many misleading statements are made in this and other forums concerning these subjects. Any of my posts on the areas in question can be backed up by published material and statistics that are available to anyone willing to look for them (I've cited sources many times). It just seems that the great majority of hobbyists insist on disregarding what is happening around them and that's an attitude I simply can't fathom. It's as if as long as one makes believe something isn't happening it might go away! I'll say that when questions arise on any of the seemingly controversial subjects, I always make it a point of asking other posters if they have any hard evidence that might shows different trends, as I would be very interested to examine the data, but I am always presented with baseless personal opinions! Presenting reality is not being negative, it's being objective. CNJ831

[Driline]

Sir Madog

Silver Pilot

The vast majority are not interested in operations, be it timetable, train order, car card etc. 

 

What makes you come to that conclusion? - this is your own, singular view, based on assumption, not knowledge.

 

Like Silver Pilot, it comes from my assessment of the majority of posters on this forum. Many are young,or new operators that like to watch the trains go round and round. Nothing wrong with that...just an observation.

[Silver Pilot]

Sir Madog

Silver Pilot

The vast majority are not interested in operations, be it timetable, train order, car card etc. 

 

What makes you come to that conclusion? - this is your own, singular view, based on assumption, not knowledge.

No! It is a conclussion based on knowledge gained from reading posts on this forum instead of sitting around reading other's woes.  Based on the other posts it is not a singular view, but the view of many others. 

[mobilman44]

Hi!

My 11x15 two level HO layout is about 70% finished trackwise, but the remaining trackage is all planned out.  Given that I have two Digitrax DT-400 controllers, 4 trains COULD be run.  But for practical purposes, two trains could run on the double mains, and a third could run the sub-main and work the yard or sidings. 

I learned early on (this is my first venture into DCC) not to over extend myself on running multiple trains or locos.  The wonderful freedom offered by DCC also gives you the freedom for head-on collisions, runaway locos, creeping locos that slowly move into a main, etc., etc.

It sure is fun though!

Mobilman44 

[RRCanuck]

Without joining the fray about what constitutes "normal operations", I can run a maximum of 5 trains simultaneously, excluding one loco doing switching work.  Yards can accomodate another 9.  Generally I don't like the layout to be that crowded, but it can be done.  Layout room 15 x 29 feet, DC block control, one operator. Cheers.

[el-capitan]

cudaken

 When you run switching, timetable and mainline operations, do you do it by your self or with someone?

               Ken

 

I can do both. The operation is a sequential movement of trains. I can either do this myself, or multiple people. Things just move faster the more people are involved. A "full" op session would include a dispatcher, yard engineer, main-line engineer, and 2 local engineers. So 5 total. I can also add 2 conductors on the locals but at 7, things get pretty tight, depending on the overall size of the crew :)

[ratled]

I guess if the is a prototype for everything then there to is a modeler for everything too.....

"One of the always mentioned advantages to a Digitrax system is that the DT400 throttle allows an operator to control 2 trains on one throttle simultaneously.  If a person was truly 'operating' on the layout they wouldn't be able to control two trains."

I bought mine specifically for that reason.  How else does a lone wolf modeler handle meets?

ratled

[rs2mike]

I can handle exactly 0.  My plan is to be able to keep 3 to 4 guys busy.  Might be a tall order for my space but I have not drawn up a plan yet.

[Swayin]

I ran three trains last night on my 6x16 double oval layout, and given that it has one 30-degree crossing, it definitely kept my head on a swivel ... but fun!

[BerkshireSteam]

Well...I have nothing now except a loop of test track set on a 2x4 sheet of OSB, so right now 1 train. I did however have a consist of 3-40' box, 1-42' gon, 1-35' covered hopper, 2-28' tanks, 1-70' tank, 2-50' box, 1-50' flat, 1-57' reefer, and caboose pulled up a roughly 1% grade by a single Atlas GP9. It did stall at the very top where it goes into the loop but it was right where a joint is so I'm pretty sure it was because of shotty track work.

Now for my latest dream layout, also my most realistic, is heavily inspired by the Pentrex video of GBW (12 hours, around 90 cars, 3 C424's at the head end, caboose at the rear) but downsized a little. I do like the idea of a single road freight, but only around 60 cars still probably running 3 engines though. I would say only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the cars would actually be interchanged along the line, most would be bridge traffic simply going from A to B. For easy sake, and because the idea of making up and breaking down trains appeals to me, the layout would have to a wrap around ordeal with continous running, so all trains originate and terminate at the same yard. This would also free up space with out needing two yards big enough to handle a 60 car train. The era would also be modern day so it's not like 40' cars here either mostly 50 foot boxs, 89 foot TOFC/COFC flats, 54-60 foot tank cars and such. So my whole operating scheme (mind you most always operating solo) would consist of breaking down dealing with all the cars interchanged down the mainline from the last run as needed, breaking down the train from the last run, classification of the cars, make up of a train for the next run, and finally run the next train. I say run because obviously the break down and classification of the last runs train could be a single operating session in itself.

I should also mention I have also ALWAYS planned on making the model rr a full time ordeal. It would be my retreat from stress, a retreat from boredom, a regular solo operating session, and especially if one the size of the dream layout mentioned up there, a regular multi-operator operating session. I just really like everything there is about it. Heck I think even if I had a job in the locomotive business as an engineer or conductor or brakeman or something I would still operate the layout on a very regular basis.

Speaking of which does anyone know if CN is hiring in the area???

[dinwitty]

I'm working on my MIlwaukee yard and it has a 4 track yard and a passenger terminal plus the North Shore terminal. For storage and testing I have now about 40-50 cars on it and about 10-20 locos, not really counted. When operating it prolly wont have that many by design but it tells the story about the rest of the layout and its potential, multiply those numbers by about 4 or so and thats maybe capacity for my layout in plannings.

[HaroldA]

By Ken's definition I can run four and as a loner that is about all I can manage.  This doesn't include any switching I may be doing in the one main yard or spotting cars in the other two locations - Shingleton or Sunrise.  Keeps me busy.

[rclanger]

Sir Madog

The fun in model railroading does not correlate to the size of a layout.

 

Thankfully!

[Texas Zepher]

cudaken

Now I am not asking how many cars or engines you have!  But how many complete trains and cars will your track hold and still be ran?

zero, I have no pike