cudakenNow I am not asking how many cars or engines you have! But how many complete trains and cars will your track hold and still be ran?
Sir MadogThe fun in model railroading does not correlate to the size of a layout.
Thankfully!
Bob
Photobucket Albums:NPBL - 2008 The BeginningNPBL - 2009 Phase INPBL - 2010 Downtown
By Ken's definition I can run four and as a loner that is about all I can manage. This doesn't include any switching I may be doing in the one main yard or spotting cars in the other two locations - Shingleton or Sunrise. Keeps me busy.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
Well...I have nothing now except a loop of test track set on a 2x4 sheet of OSB, so right now 1 train. I did however have a consist of 3-40' box, 1-42' gon, 1-35' covered hopper, 2-28' tanks, 1-70' tank, 2-50' box, 1-50' flat, 1-57' reefer, and caboose pulled up a roughly 1% grade by a single Atlas GP9. It did stall at the very top where it goes into the loop but it was right where a joint is so I'm pretty sure it was because of shotty track work.
Now for my latest dream layout, also my most realistic, is heavily inspired by the Pentrex video of GBW (12 hours, around 90 cars, 3 C424's at the head end, caboose at the rear) but downsized a little. I do like the idea of a single road freight, but only around 60 cars still probably running 3 engines though. I would say only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the cars would actually be interchanged along the line, most would be bridge traffic simply going from A to B. For easy sake, and because the idea of making up and breaking down trains appeals to me, the layout would have to a wrap around ordeal with continous running, so all trains originate and terminate at the same yard. This would also free up space with out needing two yards big enough to handle a 60 car train. The era would also be modern day so it's not like 40' cars here either mostly 50 foot boxs, 89 foot TOFC/COFC flats, 54-60 foot tank cars and such. So my whole operating scheme (mind you most always operating solo) would consist of breaking down dealing with all the cars interchanged down the mainline from the last run as needed, breaking down the train from the last run, classification of the cars, make up of a train for the next run, and finally run the next train. I say run because obviously the break down and classification of the last runs train could be a single operating session in itself.
I should also mention I have also ALWAYS planned on making the model rr a full time ordeal. It would be my retreat from stress, a retreat from boredom, a regular solo operating session, and especially if one the size of the dream layout mentioned up there, a regular multi-operator operating session. I just really like everything there is about it. Heck I think even if I had a job in the locomotive business as an engineer or conductor or brakeman or something I would still operate the layout on a very regular basis.
Speaking of which does anyone know if CN is hiring in the area???
I ran three trains last night on my 6x16 double oval layout, and given that it has one 30-degree crossing, it definitely kept my head on a swivel ... but fun!
I can handle exactly 0. My plan is to be able to keep 3 to 4 guys busy. Might be a tall order for my space but I have not drawn up a plan yet.
alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)
I guess if the is a prototype for everything then there to is a modeler for everything too.....
"One of the always mentioned advantages to a Digitrax system is that the DT400 throttle allows an operator to control 2 trains on one throttle simultaneously. If a person was truly 'operating' on the layout they wouldn't be able to control two trains."
I bought mine specifically for that reason. How else does a lone wolf modeler handle meets?
ratled
Modeling the Klamath River area in HO on a proto-lanced sub of the SP “The State of Jefferson Line”
cudaken When you run switching, timetable and mainline operations, do you do it by your self or with someone? Ken
When you run switching, timetable and mainline operations, do you do it by your self or with someone?
Ken
I can do both. The operation is a sequential movement of trains. I can either do this myself, or multiple people. Things just move faster the more people are involved. A "full" op session would include a dispatcher, yard engineer, main-line engineer, and 2 local engineers. So 5 total. I can also add 2 conductors on the locals but at 7, things get pretty tight, depending on the overall size of the crew :)
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
Without joining the fray about what constitutes "normal operations", I can run a maximum of 5 trains simultaneously, excluding one loco doing switching work. Yards can accomodate another 9. Generally I don't like the layout to be that crowded, but it can be done. Layout room 15 x 29 feet, DC block control, one operator. Cheers.
Hi!
My 11x15 two level HO layout is about 70% finished trackwise, but the remaining trackage is all planned out. Given that I have two Digitrax DT-400 controllers, 4 trains COULD be run. But for practical purposes, two trains could run on the double mains, and a third could run the sub-main and work the yard or sidings.
I learned early on (this is my first venture into DCC) not to over extend myself on running multiple trains or locos. The wonderful freedom offered by DCC also gives you the freedom for head-on collisions, runaway locos, creeping locos that slowly move into a main, etc., etc.
It sure is fun though!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Sir Madog Silver Pilot The vast majority are not interested in operations, be it timetable, train order, car card etc. What makes you come to that conclusion? - this is your own, singular view, based on assumption, not knowledge.
Silver Pilot The vast majority are not interested in operations, be it timetable, train order, car card etc.
The vast majority are not interested in operations, be it timetable, train order, car card etc.
What makes you come to that conclusion? - this is your own, singular view, based on assumption, not knowledge.
No! It is a conclussion based on knowledge gained from reading posts on this forum instead of sitting around reading other's woes. Based on the other posts it is not a singular view, but the view of many others.
Sir MadogSilver Pilot The vast majority are not interested in operations, be it timetable, train order, car card etc. What makes you come to that conclusion? - this is your own, singular view, based on assumption, not knowledge.
Like Silver Pilot, it comes from my assessment of the majority of posters on this forum. Many are young,or new operators that like to watch the trains go round and round. Nothing wrong with that...just an observation.
I hate Rust
cudakenAs Simon 1966 put it, I am a rail fan. I like to sit back and just watch the trains go around.
I like to do both, or should I say all.
I like switching, I like timetable/mainline operation, and I like being a railfan. So I designed a layout for all of these types of operation.
I prefer through stagging over point to point because point to point requires so much setup time and prevents trains from being used a second time in a session (which is particularly usefull with passenger trains - which I like.
I belong to a round robin group and some times decline any jobs and just watch the trains, other times I'm happy to be at the "hub" of hings.
It's ALL fun.
Sheldon
el-capitanI have no interest in tying up every inch of non-main track with a train though because it would make operation impossible
That is why I started this post. When I saw Sheldon post the number of engines and rolling stock he needs / wants it got me wondering what other people layouts could hold and still be ran.
It was what I thought was a simple question, guess not.
As Simon 1966 put it, I am a rail fan. I like to sit back and just watch the trains go around. Nothing wrong with running your layout like a real rail road either
Thanks for all the answers as well.
Cuda Ken
However, my layout is intended for realistic operation and not volume. If I filled up every passing siding, industrial spur and yard track with a train, I could probably fit 15 or more. I have no interest in tying up every inch of non-main track with a train though because it would make operation impossible, so it doesn't matter anyway.
CNJ831"Agreed, to a point - but again you assume to know and (sic) a lot about what people you don't even know are doing. - Sheldon" Not at all. It really doesn't take any second sight to understand what folks here, on average, are doing on their layouts. It's been acknowledged in various publications in recent years that no more than 1 in 5 hobbyists does anything that would constitute "systematic operations", while only just 1 in 3 does even simple random switching! Thus, some 2/3 of hobbyists, across the board, are simply running their trains on a whim and now with DCC often more trains than they can actually fully control at one time. In addition, it is mainly the longtime, or the more advanced, hobbyist that practices operations. The majority of folks participating in this site tend to be either entry-level, or casual hobbyists (just look at the sorts of threads posted here and especially those concerning the number of locos owned!). So...indicating that most are simply "running trains" - as opposed to doing "systematic operations" - is almost a certainty, not simply an assumption...and that colors the kind of responses we're getting to the question posed by this thread. P.S. Anyone else having difficulty posting today? All my quotes and paragraphs seem to be running together. CNJ831
I agree with the CNJ831's conclusios about the majority of the people reading and posting on this forum. The vast majority are not interested in operations, be it timetable, train order, car card etc. As CNJ stated, just the look at the majority of the type of questions posed on the forum. Most people here are interesting in running the most trains they can in the space alloted. The OP is a perfect example of this - he measures a locomotive not by its fidelity to detail, but by how many cars it can pull up what percentage grade and around how tight a radius curve. He measures a layout not by what the operations it can handle (the layout's ability to act as a miniature transportation system moving trains through its territory and deliver freight to its online customers) instead he measures it by how long it takes the trains to 'make a lap' and how many trains can be run on it at one time.
As further evidence of CNJ's statement that the majority of hobbyists are more interested in how many trains they can run at once is provided when every the discussion of which DCC system is best (Sorry Sheldon didn;t mean to swear by mentioning DCC). One of the always mentioned advantages to a Digitrax system is that the DT400 throttle allows an operator to control 2 trains on one throttle simultaneously. If a person was truly 'operating' on the layout they wouldn't be able to control two trains.
I suspect, based on the photos and descriptions posted by the OP, that the majority of his 'operations' has to do woth running trains in preselected loops of track. He talks about the "A line", the "B line" and the "C line" which are basicly separately loops of track connected to together. They may be long enough to run two trains simutaneously, but IMO it doesn't meet the definition of 'operating"
Also in support of CNJ's statement, consider the number of posts by people who talk about having an inner loop and an outer loop of track. They frequently post about the problems with shorts at the crossover between loops. These a frequent questions, AND provide insight in to the type and level of modeler that is predominate on this forum.
When you get down to it, the original question posed is ridiculous. I've seen small switching layouts that occupy several operators for long periods and are more fun to operate than large layouts that are nothing more than a few long loops of track. The number of trains a layout can 'hold' has no correlation to how good of a layout it is to operate.
Using the Layout Design Analysis from Joe Fugate's site that Stein mentioned
http://siskiyou-railfan.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.32
here are my stat's
Storage Track (cars): 64Staging Track (cars): 64Service Track (cars): 6Connecting Track (cars): 18Passing Sidings: 2Passing Train Length (cars): 18/9/18Staging Tracks: 4Staging Train Length (cars): 18/16/14Maximum Cars: 116Cars Moved: 72Trains: 5.5Dispatching Threshold: 18 car trains
With working separate narrow and standard gauge lines:
It doesn't matter since I don't have 3 operators yet. With just me, I run one train at a time, and use sequential operations. In my personal opinion, operating more than 1 train per operator is a display gimmick for visitors. And my spare bedroom is pretty crowded as it is with layout and potentially 3 operators.
Fred W
My LA&SFV RR runs four trains, two locals 5-10 cars), a main line freight (20-25 cars) and a passenger (6 cars). The two locals have specific jobs and routes that they work. The main line freight is the car holding train being as I don't have any major yards to make up trains. The locals pick up and drop cars at a siding where the main line freight interacts doing the same. I try to operate at least 30 minutes a day, its great therapy for mental happiness.
CNJ831It really doesn't take any second sight to understand what folks here, on average, are doing on their layouts.
And again I will state I must really be the odd ball, my layout plan allows for both. In addition to the operational mode I previously discribed, the mainline and branchline easily redirected into 5 seperate deticated loops to allow for mindless display running.
And, virtually all my industrial switching is completely off the mainline allowing that work to be done with the mainline in either mode - display or serious operation.
Averages are meaningless, and limiting our discussion based on who we think is reading is a negative view in my opinion. New people will not learn about the more complex aspects of the hobby if they are not exposed to them. They may imbrace them, they may not, I'm sure they will have fun in any case.
Your view always seems so negative, "the hobby is dieing", "production runs are smaller", "few people really operate", "every buys more locos than they need", etc,etc. I have been at this for 40 years, and have worked in several hobby shops, I have seen things go up and down, and seen things change, but my outlook has never been so negative like yours.
You seem almost offended by those of us who are doing more, having fun, are happy with the products, and have a positive outlook - sorry if my happiness offends you. Or is just the size of my layout space that offends you? I'm just a little guy, I know lots of people with way more trains/layout than me.
CNJ831and now with DCC often more trains than they can actually fully control at one time.
I still don't know anyone who does this, DCC or otherwise unless the trains are on seperate loops or under some sort of automatic control.
I can't begin to answer your question, since my layout is run in operational mode by a group and the number of trains we dispatch can vary. In fact, since my railroad, though consuming three decks, is all point to point (staging to staging or yard) so the number moving over the mainlines is quite small at a given time. So while your question may be interesting, it is not one that is important or needs an answer for me.
Sheldon,
I could not agree more - the question should have been, how many trains can be operated on a layout and how many operators can join in the fun! Out of necessity and not by own choice I am "condemned" to be a lone wolf, but I cherish the moments, when I can see my "old gang" to operate our modular layout. It is a single track, 400 feet long (= 6 1/2 miles) narrow gauge branch line with 7 stations and about 5 - 6 trains operating with a timetable. Sharing is part of the fun!
CNJ831Quite honestly, Sheldon, there are pretty much only two acknowledged ways of running a layout. The first to run equipment on your pike with a very definite purpose and operating scheme, with staging, switching, train assignments, car cards, and way bills - the method long advocated by our host . The second method is simply to run one's equipment for "fun" without a real plan, round and round on multiple loops, perhaps combined with running from staging at one end to staging at the other, but without "doing" anything purposeful in between. Now there isn't anything wrong with either approach and I expect that most hobbyists actually fall into that second category. However, the two methods aren't directly comparable when it comes to the potential for trains run. In addition, when the latter approach is taken to its extreme, as one often finds in the case on tinplate layouts although I've seen plenty of examples in HO as well, it simply becomes a game of intentionally seeing just how many short trains can be run on the layout at a time, or in sequence, during a given interval. Few, if any, of these trains are actually under the full control of the operator at a given time, nor have a reason for being on the pike. Now the original question of, "How Many Trains Will Your Layout Hold?" to my mind leans far more toward purposeless staging and running of as many trains as possible in its wording, although I'm rather sure that this wasn't the OP's intent. Nevertheless, without clarification of the operator's approach nothing meaningful can come from any figures presented in the thread. CNJ831.
Agreed, to a point - but again you assume to know and a lot about what people you don't even know are doing.
Sir Madog How meaningful is to state, how many "trains" a layout can hold? Regardless of the size the layout, I can run only one train at a time. That´s exactly what I want to do and to be, the engineer driving a train. DCC lets me do that, without going through a hassle of extensive wiring.
But many of us have groups of friends who participate in "operating sessons" on our layouts. Five to eight operators, a dispatcher, a yard master and/or engine hostler, all "working" at the same time.
Each operator or crew takes another train after they "complete" the movements of one train. So "moving" 5, or 10, or even 20 trains through a "schedule" in a few hours is very easy.
Such large layouts are designed for this type of interactive "operation", just like in real life. This sort of thing goes on quite a bit here in the US WITHOUT it being on a club layout, but rather on private layouts.
That's true in many ways, but it also depends on the modeling/operational goals of the individual.