For years my town of Kingsdown has sat on green outdoor carpet. Yesterday Jeremy came by and kept telling me how great my layout looked. Well the K-10 mining section does look good, not great but good. He all so he liked the town of Kingsdown?
Now I do have some well made DMP, cornerstone and Kirby kits and they are sitting on outdoor carpet and the only road was HO slot car track!
So today, I pulled all the buildings, tress, lights and cut out the carpet. Filled the gaps between the plywood sections with paper then drywall compound. Here is picture of what I have, this is from when I was building the layout with the carpet in places. God, that been 5 years ago.
Spaces is about 4 foot by 7 foot and I have around 25 buildings. There will be a team track running toward the camera with to two different companies.
Any tips of plaining a town? Pictures would help as well! In my mind town has around 20,000 residents.
Any tips on making very affordable roads, I think I still have some plaster. Drywall compound has way to many lumps in it.
Thanks for the coming pictures and tips.
Ken
I hate Rust
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.
You want what? I have a few ideas crawling around in here for you
Gotta have a good set of big homes for maybe B&B right?
Then of course a couple of downtown scenes that we came across--
As for roads I'm modelling a rather small series of towns out on the high prairies---most still had those dang gravel roads with the downtowns the only area were you might find real asphalt roads. Plaster might work--me, I'm thinking maybe try some styrene painted up and lightly done up with lines to resemble concrete roads or patched up---
Be interesting coming up with stuff---
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Some observations on a town of around 20,000 residents.
The center of town would have the passenger station and freight station. If your railroad was "poor", they'd still be the original structures. A richer railroad would have rebuilt in brick ca. 1900 - 1920. Depending on the era, the stations would be used for their original purpose or recycled to something else, like the local historical society and a hobby shop.
Industries would be near the tracks.
Also, the center of town would have the municipal buildings: city hall, police station, and library. Less likely to have a fire station because a town of 20,000 would have 2 firehouses. The municipal buildings would be small if the era is prior to 1980.
There would be stores; the kind would depend on the era. Pre 1960 you'd have typical small town stores. Nothing higher than 3 stories, though. Post 1960 you'd have specialty shops since the small town stores would have moved to big box stores away from downtown. And definitely some banks. On a modern layout, they'd as likely be independent banks as branches of national banks. A car dealer would be typical for the pre 1980 era, most likely a Ford or Chevy dealer. The car dealer would move to the outskirts of town after 1980. On a modern layout, the old Ford dealer would be the right size for a BMW or Mercedes dealership.
The high school would be on the outskirts of downtown. Prior to 1950, there would be one building; an addition would have been built in the 1950s. On a modern layout the high school would have several additions in different architectural styles.
There would be a lot of Protestant churches; the different denominations being close together. The Catholics wouldn't be in the center of town since a Catholic church has a larger church plant than a Protestant church. There may be a synagogue. After 1980, some of the churches would have landmark status, and some would be sold to other denominations. For example, the Lutherans might sell their church to the Greek Orthodox. You'd have a church with a combination of western and eastern Christian elements.
Given the space available my suggestions would be these
1) Don't get too hung up on prototype-width streets. They can be space eaters. The Walthers street and sidewalk system has a good practical width, even if you might feel pinched to actually drive on those streets. Also nothing says overly-small street like big trucks.
2) While there is a prototype for everything, don't get random and meandering with your streets but mimic the usual "grid."
3) However, don't feel obligated to have the grid be at right angles to the edges of your layout or even to the tracks.
4) Again while there is a prototype for everything, most towns have residential areas, business districts, and "zoned industrial" and it makes sense to bunch your houses together, your stores together, and keep the factories trackside on the sidings. And if anything the stores (e.g., taverns) come between the houses and the factories.
5) Fire hydrants. Man holes. Drains. Signs. Dogs {see: fire hydrants}.
6) Don't overdo it with figures. And a figure that seems to be moving/running/hammering makes for a great photo but looks very odd in real life.
7) Cars need a place to park, and people need to eat.
8) Visitors love gas stations.
9) Lawns are mowed; lots are weeds.
Dave Nelson
If you can find it, there was an article back in the 70s on guidelines for modeling towns and cities describing the difference in how each related to the railroad. In smaller cities/towns the railroad often cut across the town (at least in the east -- though in granger country it may differ) while larger cities often paralled the railroad for a couple of blocks around
cbq9911a There would be stores; the kind would depend on the era. Pre 1960 you'd have typical small town stores. Nothing higher than 3 stories, though. Post 1960 you'd have specialty shops since the small town stores would have moved to big box stores away from downtown.
There would be stores; the kind would depend on the era. Pre 1960 you'd have typical small town stores. Nothing higher than 3 stories, though. Post 1960 you'd have specialty shops since the small town stores would have moved to big box stores away from downtown.
Couple of things I would add, at least in the rural south, is downtowns hung on until the mid 70s at least. Walmart and strip malls didn't pull stores away until the early 80s. Downtown stores would include hardware, jewelry stores, drugstores, some local clothing stores, and a couple of five & dimes. (Memory lane -- dad would always take me into Roses 5&10 for hot cashews or candy while my mother shopped up and down main street. I could sit on the trunk of the car and watch trains cross main street while eating nuts and waiting on her.) Even into the 70s a town didn't have to be too big to have a couple of each type in it. Actually more choices and competition than today in the malls. Business names were more local. Even if a chain, many chains were only a few stores in that small region. Only a couple like Sears and S.S. Kreiske (I know I didn't spell that right) were nationally known. Which by the way, a Sears catalog store would be a fixture in many small towns.
And yes, I agree on the churches. You can't go down a street without hitting one. I've lived in this town for ten years now and still find new churches I didn't know were there.
Industry wise, depending on the era, it wasn't uncommon to find 2-3 gas & oil dealors, and 2-3 lumber yards, each with a rail siding, all serving towns under 20,000. Many small towns only had one or two primary "heavy" industries to serve. Those often set the tone for the whole town.
This is downtown Moose Bay, the corner of Penny Lane and Lonely Street. It's an early shot. The street in the foreground is 3 inches wide in HO. The street which crosses it is only 2 1/2 inches wide. These narrow streets make the scene look like an "urban canyon" even though the buildings are only 2 to 4 stories tall.
Later on, I've added details to the scene. Streetlights, a mailbox, pedestrians and the Walthers working traffic lights give the intersection a busy, urban look. The Hotel sign flashes and sequences its letters, which provides constant visual interest even when no trains are passing through.
Don't forget the backs of the buildings. In general, the backs will face the railroad tracks. Alleys, trash cans and fire escapes can make the rear more interesting than the front.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
In addition to the great suggestions above, why don't you model a couple streets + side alleys and such and simulate the "rest of the town" with the backdrop? This would let you concentrate on super detailing buildings and all the paraphernalia that goes along with them. (ie: streetlights, fire hydrants, trash cans, power lines, mail boxes etc.) A decent photo backdrop might serve you well in this instance and you wouldn't need to build the zillions of structures that you would otherwise have to. Just my 20,000 people with an average of 4 to a home would mean approx 5000 residences. (not including businesses!
Matt
I feel your pain.
I have been working on a modular layout for 4 years now. Here's the best shot of the what the town looks like.
http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/46229/2182589090048277291S425x425Q85.jpg
I recall you have a number of steam locomotives, so the town would maybe be set in the '40s to '50s timeframe??
If you consider a town that was founded in the early 1800s or earlier, typical for east of the Mississippi River communities, the buildings would have started out as wood frame construction. Then most communities would have had "THE BIG FIRE " sometime in the late 1800s to about 1920 or so. This would have destroyed most of the town center, and rebuilding would have been in brick and stone in the town center, as this would be more fire resistant for closely packed buildings. Buildings out from the town center and in the "low rent district" would remain wood frame construction. Homes would be wood construction, unless you are in a termite area where there would be more brick or concrete homes.
In the 1960s, there was a program called Urban Renewal in which many of the brick/stone structures in the town/city center were declared "blighted" (code for too old) and were demolished and replaced with "modern" glass and steel buildings, strip malls and similar new & wonderful buildings and uses. In the late 1950s, chain restraunts like McDonalds started showing up.
These are the standards I am using for roads on my layout:
For roads I have used Dhurams Water Putty poured about 1/4" thick, then wet sanded smooth. I use the Evergreen 6x6 as a form for sidewalks and pour using Durhams as well. Where I need lines or stripes, I paint the area white, then put down thin drafting tape and paint over with the road color. For sidewalks, I also use Smalltown plastic sidewalks, they have a lot of details like manhole covers, storm drains, and curb cuts for alley entrances.http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/699-7000
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Some ideas:
Some ideas for businesses:
Don't forget the little details like garbage cans, mail boxes, post office boxes, street lights, power lines, parking meters, and phone booths
A small area you have could not possibly have 20,000, try for something in 2 to 4000, and small towns never had large buildings, go to google maps and find a small town and check the layout of the village, one comment made above is very true, do not jam a bunch of buildings in a small space, plasticville is NOT what you want.
Left Coast Rail Some ideas: Small park with a bandstand/gazebo City Hall Police Station School Church Some ideas for businesses: Barber Shop Pool Hall Bar Post Office Bus Station Market Newstand Funeral Home Sporting Goods Movie Theater Bakery Cafe/Diner Pet Store Hardware Store Clothing Store Shoe Store Drug Store Stationary Store Tax Preparer Auto Parts Service Station Televison Radio Shop Furniture Store Don't forget the little details like garbage cans, mail boxes, post office boxes, street lights, power lines, parking meters, and phone booths
No LHS?
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
steemtraynLeft Coast Rail Some ideas: Small park with a bandstand/gazebo City Hall Police Station School Church Some ideas for businesses: Barber Shop Pool Hall Bar Post Office Bus Station Market Newstand Funeral Home Sporting Goods Movie Theater Bakery Cafe/Diner Pet Store Hardware Store Clothing Store Shoe Store Drug Store Stationary Store Tax Preparer Auto Parts Service Station Televison Radio Shop Furniture Store Don't forget the little details like garbage cans, mail boxes, post office boxes, street lights, power lines, parking meters, and phone booths No LHS?
steemtrayn No LHS?
An LHS would be more common in the Transition Era:
cudakenAny tips of plaining a town? Pictures would help as well! In my mind town has around 20,000 residents.
Use google, find some towns of a reasonable size, look for historic pictures of that town (and other towns) at the time you want to model. Will give you an impression of the style of buildings, street scenes etc.
For tips on making city scenes, have a look at John Pryke's excellent book "Building City Scenery for your Model Railroad" (http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12204.html).
Smile, Stein
It helps to know which came first - kind of a 'chicken or the egg' question I guess. In the eastern US and Canada generally the railroads were built thru / around existing cities, and had to squeeze in where they could. In the midwest and west, the railroad often came first, and the city built up around it.
When you figure it out let me know I've changed the layout of one of my small towns Perrineville named after a small town here in NJ about 20 times already. One guy at the club suggested doing it just as a city planner would. See how much room you have to work with, break that down into lot sizes, figure in your streets and just put down buildings on vacant lots till you done or it looks like you want it to. How you arrange the buildings is strictly up to u.
Thanks folks, for all of good answers and a few good photos as well. Found some ideas by doing a keyword search here for crossing. One of the problems I have planning the town is the passenger station. It is off to the right of the town, there are 4 sets of tracks that the road will have to cross. I have a better idea how to do this now.
One of the thing I want is to be able to look down main street. So the streets will have to run at a angle. I will post some more pictures after I BBQ.
Now for some of the dumber question.
1 I never did and work on bare plywood, mining section uses 2 inch foam. I know how to add small hills with foam. Any other tips? Should I paint the plywood?
2 How far away would a store be from the tracks? Say 30 feet?
3 Does Hobby Lobby carry styrene plastic. I will see how much it is from K 10 model trains. I need cheap, just about no budget for this project.
4 If I use styrene for street, then again for side walks I guess the buildings will have to set on top of styrene as well, right?
5 Dumb question, how wide is a alley? I have not been in one for 25 plus years now.
Some pictures later. Thanks again for all the great answers as well.
It is plain to see that this plain could make a possible town site. Do you think someone is already plaining, I mean planning, this already?
cudaken how wide is a alley? I have not been in one for 25 plus years now.
how wide is a alley? I have not been in one for 25 plus years now.
Alleys come in a wide variety of widths. Those designed for pedestrian traffic are often only 3 to 4 feet wide. Those designed for vehicles are often just wide enough for just a single vehicle to pass, so may be only be about one-and-a-half vehicles wide. They come wider, but you want them narrower than your regular streets.
Mark
cudaken 5 Dumb question, how wide is a alley? I have not been in one for 25 plus years now.
Any alley around here can go from about 20' wide up to a full parking lot right in the middle of a block of buildings. ------ I know of one that is just 15' wide at the entrance----
There is one alley that was recently closed to car traffic----a couple of restaurants are now using them for outdoor patios----
First decide what kind of town you want to model. Then focus on the type of structures one would normally find within 1/8, not more than 1/4 mile, of the tracks in that type of town.
In other words, don't try to include all the structures for a complete self-sufficient town with homes, stores, factories, churches, etc. Stick to the corridor through which your railroad runs.
Here are some signs & billboards for your town.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/162879.aspx
In old downtown Martinez the streets are somewhat (the tracks curves some) parallel and perpendicular to the railroad tracks. One side of the tracks is industrial and waterfront, on the other side is the business section. One street crosses the railroad tracks: Ferry Street. It formerly led to the car ferry pier, but now it is to a park, some small industries, and the marina. Main street runs parallel to the tracks. Within three blocks distance from the tracks are the county courthouse, county administration building, and jail. Businesses consist of restaurants (the most common business), used book stores, antique shops, some office buildings, a bank, bail bondsman, and drug store. There are a few small, paved parking lots, mostly public except for the one at the bank. Structures are mostly one and two-story buildings. Government buildings (except the jail) have stone exteriors and some have pillars (impressive). There aren't any traffic signals in the business district. The residential area begins several blocks from the tracks. Of course, the depots (including the new Amtrak station and the superseded SP depot) are on the town side of the tracks. You can do "Google Maps" for a view.
Martinez, founded in 1849. Birthplace of Joe Dimaggio. Short-term residence of Marilyn Monroe. Alleged location of the creation of the Martini.
If I get this link right, this photo from Google Maps answers some questions. You can see how the railroad cuts the town as well as how close the furniture store is to the tracks.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=34.715521,-81.620688&spn=0,359.994341&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=34.71551,-81.620791&panoid=l8802u6pT79TgCUqZTxluA&cbp=12,259.12,,0,12
Here's another one. There were actually several small business still rail served within the last few years.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.372977,-86.219539&spn=0,359.994341&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=35.373876,-86.22025&panoid=hHLisUWO_s4JpUMcPW6-qQ&cbp=12,160.15,,0,-7.37
This one shows just how close houses were to the mainline in older small towns.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.365256,-86.210221&spn=0,359.988681&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=35.36489,-86.211361&panoid=5BIqrGJPh4RV7CYTp-Mkcw&cbp=12,316.5,,0,11.91
What's interesting is to back out a little from these images to see how the railroad flows through these two towns. One is a railroad town and follows the track in a parallel fashion. The other came first and the railroad cuts diagonally through the town. What's even more interesting is if you look close, you can see history of older lines that have been removed.
cudaken 2 How far away would a store be from the tracks? Say 30 feet?
However far you want.
Or about four feet. Give or take a few inches.
cudaken 3 Does Hobby Lobby carry styrene plastic. I will see how much it is from K 10 model trains. I need cheap, just about no budget for this project.
Don't think of styrene as a "hobby product." It's much more expensive that way. For small sheets, go to Wal-Mart and look at plastic "For Sale" signs. They're styrene, and much cheaper than what you'd pay in a hobby shop for a blank sheet of the same size. For larger pieces, see if you've got a local signmaker or plastics distributer. I ordered a couple of big sheets (like 3x5 feet) from www.usplastic.com (the Rubbermaid people) for under $10 each.
markpierce It is plain to see that this plain could make a possible town site.
It is plain to see that this plain could make a possible town site.
How about flat white spray paint? That's about as plain vanilla as you can get.
(Sorry, I couldn't help it.)
Ken,
Looking down main street. Styrene street (.040) and sidewalks (.080) on plywood. The plywood was painted. I used latex caulk to affix the stryene to the plywood. The streets are first painted primer gray from a rattle can. Then artist acrylics brushed for the top coat: 4 pts gray, 1 pt black, 1 pt brown. Striping is automotive 1/16" pinstripes. Sidewalk is rattle can camoflage. Sidewalks were scored to scale 6' squares. All buildings have lighting. The street lights really look great at night.