Be nice to each other, this is just for fun!
In your opinion, what would you say the most important advance in Model Railroading is?
And WHY ?
Do you think its improved materials in construction of track? Improvements in locomotive and rolling stock manufacture? Better motors? Improved tolerances? Newer procedures and methodologies? Improvements in scenicking materials? Better glue? Better electronic control systems? DCC? Sound?
Or is it none of these? Are the old ways better? Which "old ways" would that be? DC Block-switching? Heavier locomotives? More solid construction? Something else?
And slightly to the side of the previous question-- what is your opinion between "Store-Bought" and "Scrounged" materials for construction, building, etc? There seems to be a definite push, particulary in the hobby press-- who understandably has an agenda to sell advertising and gain revenue-- for "Store-bought" materials and copyrighted / patented processes and solutions versus the old "tried and true" methods.
One side-effect of the above is the shift in the focus of published articles away from "do-it-yourself", "stuff I figured out", and "look what I can do with XXX" to a more commercial and "spoon-fed" approach.
Injecting my own opinion here-- I myself am sometimes put off by the constant barrage of commercialism and overt "product-placement" in many of the articles I read these days, and I'm not singling out any particular publisher with my statement. And again, I understand the need to sell copy, so that's naturally an earnest consideration. Perhaps the quality and level of contributed articles is not what it used to be? Or maybe potential authors are too busy dealing with other "Real World" concerns such as the economy, job situation, family stresses, etc. to contribute. Or maybe people have just "run out of ideas" and are tired of saying the same thing over and over.
Whatever it is, its really refreshing when an article appears that has a "homegrown" feel to it, and that doesn't appear to be obviously promoting some manufacturer's newest line of products over simply relaying useful and helpful information to the modeler. And again, I'm not knocking it particularly either since they (the publishers) have to figure out how to get the magazines sold...
So what's your opinion?
John
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.
One word, Plastic. In all its forms. Detailed rolling stock and locomotives, structure kits, scratchbuilding supplies, flex track ties, and polyfoam scenery base.
Second words, can motors and flywheels. These have revolutionized the way the locomotives operate. Just go back to an old Athearn blue box or other locomotive without the flywheels and try running it.
There are more; nickel silver rail, transistor throttles, walk around controls, DCC, Hydrocal (did you know that at one time people used asbestos furnace cement for scenery?).
nmra standards and r/p's. at least now most of us read from the same page.
grizlump
The Internet - Now supplies, information, pictures, contacts, expertise, interaction, etc...is readily available at my finger tips. It's just amazing what you can find if you know how to do a search.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Redore One word, Plastic. In all its forms. Detailed rolling stock and locomotives, structure kits, scratchbuilding supplies, flex track ties, and polyfoam scenery base.
You beat me to it.
So I'll suggest "Smaller Scales." O gauge has been around for a long time, but the growth of HO and now N has allowed those of us with modest "train rooms" to build relatively large layouts without using absurd curves. The popularity of HO and N has allowed the economies of scale to keep the prices reasonable, too.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Redore(did you know that at one time people used asbestos furnace cement for scenery?).
I read an old article in MR-- I think it was back in the 1940's-- about a guy who didn't have much room for railroading, so he dug out his crawl space and literally laid his track in the dirt with ballast, just like the big boys. He made cities, tunnels, yards, etc. there in the dirt (though not necessarily out of dirt). It was really interesting and just shows how resourceful people can really be if they want / need to be.
grizlump9 nmra standards and r/p's. at least now most of us read from the same page.grizlump
Well, maybe-- for folks who use "Paged" mode... but the latest standards lean more toward "Direct" mode.... (a little subtle DCC humor there... )
tstageThe Internet - Now supplies, information, pictures, contacts, expertise, interaction, etc...is readily available at my finger tips. It's just amazing what you can find if you know how to do a search.Tom
I concur. That was one of the items I was thinking of myself when I was writing the question. The Internet really has changed the way people can get together, communicate, establish, store and exchange information. It crosses geography, time, age, gender and culture-- and even to a great extent, language-- and permits a great sharing of information and techniques. I wholeheartedly agree that the Internet has been a game-changer, and of course not just for Model Railroading either.
MisterBeasleySo I'll suggest "Smaller Scales." O gauge has been around for a long time, but the growth of HO and now N has allowed those of us with modest "train rooms" to build relatively large layouts without using absurd curves. The popularity of HO and N has allowed the economies of scale to keep the prices reasonable, too.
That's a good observation. I didn't think of that one. But, by the same token, it has also fragmented the hobby to a degree as well-- particularly when you consider the total portion of "MR hobby dollars" available to all modelers in all scales. If there were a unified scale (and I'm not seriously suggesting that there should be), then a lot more models (variety of models) could be mfgr'd and sold affordably as the economy of scale would be even greater and the customer base united.
(Just thought I'd take the "Devil's Advocate" position )
jwhittenAnd slightly to the side of the previous question-- what is your opinion between "Store-Bought" and "Scrounged" materials for construction, building, etc? There seems to be a definite push, particulary in the hobby press-- who understandably has an agenda to sell advertising and gain revenue-- for "Store-bought" materials and copyrighted / patented processes and solutions versus the old "tried and true" methods.
This is particularly true for those of us who remember the row that arose when MR advocated using a stove polish to make steam locos black and Floquil pulled their ads because the author was suggesting using something other than Floquil paint. A.C. Kalmbach said the magazine's job was to help the modeler, not to write articles promoting "official" modeling products and agreed that the article was fine. He said a magazine that catered to the modeler would always have readers, and a magazine with readers would always be able to find advertisers.
Sadly, that philosophy seems to be long gone at MR nowadays.
This, I'm sure, will collect some negative comments...
The most important advance in model railroading is ongoing - the dissemination of information.
'Way back when, individuals decided to make models of railroad subjects. Toy makers decided to make toy trains. None of these people were talking to each other, and the result was a chaos of scales and track gauges. If two modelers did happen to meet, their models would be totally incompatible unless both had started with the same toymaker's products.
Later, modelers with similar tastes began to band together and standardize among themselves. Group A would still be incompatible with group B, but things were improving.
Then magazines entered the scene, first the railroad coverage in The Model Craftsman, then MR, then others catering to specific scales and audiences.
The NMRA used to distribute its membership roster to every member, so someone finding himself in Wonderful West Podunk could check to see if there were any other modelers there. (That was killed by rising cost and commercial mailing list pirates.)
Now the Internet allows anyone who can navigate a mouse and hunt-and-peck a keyboard to seek out information or engage in 'conversation' with modelers everywhere from right down the street to Lower Slobbovia.
I'm curious to see where this will take us. So far, it's been an interesting trip.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
John,
Pretty much agree with what has been already posted. I'll offer a few more and repeat myself repeat mysel .....
Wireless DDC and sound are huge to me. running trains independently is pretty cool and allows for much more realistic operations
Prototypical standards being applied across the spectrum of newer releases. Red Caboose, P2k, Spectrum, Intermountain, Athearn Genesis, Blueprint Series etc. The move towards prototypical accuracy helps everyone's railroad look better, even if you are freelancing.
Modern Plastic/Diecast steam. Man what a difference!! P2k, Spectrum, Blackstone, BLI etc... These locos run great (look great) out of the box and are a far cry from the earlier (mass produced) offerings.
Laser Cut kits and the move towards more prototypical building kits...What can you say? excellent structures without board by board. I'm In.
LDE's and linear layout design. More focus on operations based layouts that function well. These concepts float down to the 4 X 8 crowd as well and help create layouts that are more fun to operate on any level.
As for the RTR thing, I would say that we need all types in the big tent. I think RTR brings people into the hobby and indirectly RTR helps fund other smaller stuff that more hardcore modelers like. So I say more the merrier. Beginners (and some old timers) don't want to see a Red Caboose kit with 500 parts as their introduction to the hobby. RTR helps them get started...but after a few years they might gravitate to Red Caboose, etc.. (I did).
I think this is the "golden age" of the hobby n terms what is out there, the price, quality and the detail offered.
Your mileage may vary,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
The passage of time, which covers
- Older modelers, including those no longer with us, who have contributed the pioneering experience through direct teaching and articles
- The development of standards.
- New technologies
- MR Darwinism: the best practices are adopted.
DCC is a big advance in the hobby. Not for me in particular, since i enjoy DC, but for the average joe starting out. being able to run multiple trains with limited wires is big for the hobby in general.
Biggest detriment - plastic RTR rolling stock. Alot of guys are gonna disagree but I really feel strongly about this. I fell in love with this hobby by building All-nation wood and metal kits with my dad as a kid. Now, I have to buy kits off ebay to give my son the same experience. At some point (late 80's?) the hobby (especially o scale, maybe earlier for HO) shifted from the 'modeling trains' being the focal point to 'modeling layouts' being the focal point. Layouts still should be a big part, but it should be 50/50 between building layouts and building trains. Not 99/1 like it is now.
I know not many on here are going to agree, I just feel that it is a way more enjoyable hobby when you are building, painting, decaling, weathering your own stuff. In a way, it's a microcosm of society, we want it now with minimal effort expended.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
Most of you guys are too young to remember this one but it was a MONUMENTAL leap forward and made realistic HO operation possible
THE CHANGE FROM 6 VOLT OPERATION TO 12 VOLTS!
I changed from O gauge to HO when I saw a picture in MR circa 1948 of 2 E units pulling a prototypical 18 car passenger train. NO WAY in O gauge!
I built my first HO layout in the attic of a huge Pennsylvania stone farmhouse near Langhorne, PA. I'll never forget the first time I pulled my ABBA lash up of Varney F units in Reading colors with 100 freight cars plus a caboose out of the yard tracks and onto the main. Just like the real Reading!
OH HAPPY DAY!
BigRusty I changed from O gauge to HO when I saw a picture in MR circa 1948 of 2 E units pulling a prototypical 18 car passenger train. NO WAY in O gauge!
I wasn't around in 1948 but I know of several O scale model railroads that run this type of consist regularly.
jwhittenBe nice to each other, this is just for fun!In your opinion, what would you say the most important advance in Model Railroading is?And WHY ?
I could give four answers; across the board and for the 3 most popular scales.
Across the board: The development of NMRA standards.
O Scale: Lionel's inexpensive and reliable locomotives (F3, FM, GP7, etc.) developed between 1948 and 1955.
HO Scale: Atlas plastic tie track, ca. 1960. Anyone could build a nice layout.
N Scale: The explosion of good running locomotives, ca. 1985. No need to use (Con-Cor) PAs on freight or for switching.
I can't decide among:
Availability of small, inexpensive electric motors suitable for powering smaller-scale locomotives.
Model railroading magazines and books.
NMRA establishment of standards and manufacturers' acceptance of them.
Mark
Midnight RailroaderA.C. Kalmbach said the magazine's job was to help the modeler, not to write articles promoting "official" modeling products and agreed that the article was fine. He said a magazine that catered to the modeler would always have readers, and a magazine with readers would always be able to find advertisers.
I think that is a very wise statement and I agree with it completely.
Sometimes common sense isn't so common.
tomikawaTTThis, I'm sure, will collect some negative comments...
Well, I hope not. Criticisms maybe, but hopefully no negative comments- there's a difference.
tomikawaTTNow the Internet allows anyone who can navigate a mouse and hunt-and-peck a keyboard to seek out information or engage in 'conversation' with modelers everywhere from right down the street to Lower Slobbovia. I'm curious to see where this will take us. So far, it's been an interesting trip.
It most certainly has, Ollie, it most certainly has!
trainnut1250John, Pretty much agree with what has been already posted. I'll offer a few more and repeat myself repeat mysel ..... Wireless DDC and sound are huge to me. running trains independently is pretty cool and allows for much more realistic operations Prototypical standards being applied across the spectrum of newer releases. Red Caboose, P2k, Spectrum, Intermountain, Athearn Genesis, Blueprint Series etc. The move towards prototypical accuracy helps everyone's railroad look better, even if you are freelancing. Modern Plastic/Diecast steam. Man what a difference!! P2k, Spectrum, Blackstone, BLI etc... These locos run great (look great) out of the box and are a far cry from the earlier (mass produced) offerings. Laser Cut kits and the move towards more prototypical building kits...What can you say? excellent structures without board by board. I'm In. LDE's and linear layout design. More focus on operations based layouts that function well. These concepts float down to the 4 X 8 crowd as well and help create layouts that are more fun to operate on any level. As for the RTR thing, I would say that we need all types in the big tent. I think RTR brings people into the hobby and indirectly RTR helps fund other smaller stuff that more hardcore modelers like. So I say more the merrier. Beginners (and some old timers) don't want to see a Red Caboose kit with 500 parts as their introduction to the hobby. RTR helps them get started...but after a few years they might gravitate to Red Caboose, etc.. (I did). I think this is the "golden age" of the hobby n terms what is out there, the price, quality and the detail offered. Your mileage may vary, Guy
Thank you Guy for your thoughts!
I agree that DCC and independent loco control are nice additions although I'd wager that there are a lot of 'oldsters' out there who would argue that DC-blocks are just as effective. Or point out that there have been other methods of independent train control such as Astrac and Dynatrol, but certainly the advent of the digital microprocessor ushered in a new era of train control products.
I don't know about the 'golden age' but there certainly is a lot to select from.
And a counterpoint to my original position, if the products and methods are out there, why not use them? Perhaps the model rags are doing us a favor by introducing us to the new products and techniques that could potentially yield better or more consistent results, or perhaps cost less (Ha! :-) or be more effective, or whatever-- but it certainly does come across as 'crass commercialism' pretty often. I guess maybe I just pine for the articles of old on occasion. But I have to agree there is a wide panoply of exciting products available today to pick from, a veritable triple-chime horn of plenty!
FazbyThe passage of time, which covers - Older modelers, including those no longer with us, who have contributed the pioneering experience through direct teaching and articles - The development of standards. - New technologies - MR Darwinism: the best practices are adopted.
That's true.
I'm surprised though that nobody has mentioned "modeling skills" which develop and advance over time.
markpierce I can't decide among: Availability of small, inexpensive electric motors suitable for powering smaller-scale locomotives. Model railroading magazines and books. NMRA establishment of standards and manufacturers' acceptance of them. Mark
I'd go with all of these
Internet comes in handy as well here---easier to find prototypes for buildings and landscape when one cannot go to the location.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
el-capitanDCC is a big advance in the hobby. Not for me in particular, since i enjoy DC, but for the average joe starting out. being able to run multiple trains with limited wires is big for the hobby in general. Biggest detriment - plastic RTR rolling stock. Alot of guys are gonna disagree but I really feel strongly about this. I fell in love with this hobby by building All-nation wood and metal kits with my dad as a kid. Now, I have to buy kits off ebay to give my son the same experience. At some point (late 80's?) the hobby (especially o scale, maybe earlier for HO) shifted from the 'modeling trains' being the focal point to 'modeling layouts' being the focal point. Layouts still should be a big part, but it should be 50/50 between building layouts and building trains. Not 99/1 like it is now. I know not many on here are going to agree, I just feel that it is a way more enjoyable hobby when you are building, painting, decaling, weathering your own stuff. In a way, it's a microcosm of society, we want it now with minimal effort expended.
You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, and I wouldn't worry what other people think about it. If that's the aspect of the hobby that you enjoy-- by all means, enjoy it!
For me, I'm one of those "layout modelers" that you mentioned-- or rather, I'm on my way to becoming one. I like building train models okay, but really only as a means to an end-- running the trains. I have to admit there is a certain sense of accomplishment when I manage to put together a kit without gluing my fingers together too many times. And its especially thrilling when I can look at the picture on the box and the finished result without wincing too much...
I'll chime in and second the motion for the influence of the Interwebs. Years ago, if you needed to know the number of a particular locomotive, you had to scour old periodicals and hope for the best. And if you wanted a particular picture, forget about it! If it wasn't published in a book or magazine, or in a close friend's slide carousel, you were SOL.
Now, you want to see the fireman's side of an Alco RSD-15 in 1957 on a particular bridge along a particular railroad, you Google it, and moments later you have exhaustive resources at your fingertips.
Add to that the networking opportunities, collaborating opportunities, and all the Q&A and advice you can find, it's absolutely amazing how much you can learn just sitting in the den for an evening.
Personally, I spend wayyy too much time on this dern thing, but it's so fast and fun, it's hard to resist!
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
From the 30s to the early 70s0s Model railroading was in its developmental stage. Since then many things have become Standard Operational Practice.
Since the 70s Waterbased sscenery, The internet and DCC have been the most important advances. BILL
Track. Without it, we'd still be pushing our trains around the floor.
Andre
In order I think the most important are:
NMRA standards and RP's - I think the hobby would be very small without these, if it survived at all. Being able to mix and match manufacturers is as important to the hobby as standard gauge is to the prototype for interchange.
Wireless DCC - A simple way to follow and control your train. Plus you get sound.
Good Quality RTR - Track, locomotives, freight cars, passenger cars, and buildings. This speeds up the building of layouts so you can get to running trains faster.
Enjoy
Paul
Here's a couple:
1. The development of the Athearn Blue Box mechanism (HO scale).
Though BB loco's themselves were not perfect/ quiet runners, most of todays high-end mechanisms are variations of the Athearn BB drive (Kato, Atlas, BLI, Athearn Genesis, ect.).
2. Nickel silver track and wheelsets, they just make everything run better.
Just my ,
Jamie
Cape Vincent Southern Railroad
HO scale Horseshoe Curve in 5’x10’
My YouTube