Union Pacific Sues Athearn & Lionel!

[jerdenberg]

From the MR article, with some comments in brackets:

"willful and deliberate, designed specifically to trade upon the enormous goodwill [fading fast?] associated with Plantiff's [someone's typo] trademark.” It also alleges that their use of the UP trademark on model trains “is likely to cause confusion or deception of purchasers as to the source of origin of its goods” [do they really think we believe the models are made by UP?] and that purchasers are likely to buy trains bearing the UP's trademark “believing that they are sponsored by [certainly not], affiliated with [how would they see that?], or endorsed by [OK, valid point]” the UP. Union Pacific also expresses concern that it has “no control over the quality of the goods sold" and because of the confusion as to the source, Union Pacific’s “valuable goodwill in respect to its . . . trademark is at the mercy of the Defendant.” [its goodwill has suffered far more from the Plaintiff's actions than from the Defendants, I would say].

As did somebody above, I resent the fact that they do not stop at protecting their name, but want to squeeze money out of it too.

[M636C]

As a related diversion, an Australian company V/line Passenger, then owned by National Express, an English company, allowed models to be produced in their colours. But the model company wanted to produce both a coach (type BS) and a coach buffet (type BRS). V/line passenger refused the coach buffet, because, although they owned one, they didn't plan to paint it in those colours chosen for the model. This restricred modellers from running a train with that type of car in those colours, which was sad, because very similar coach buffet cars (type BRN) carried those colours.
But it is the right of the company to protect their image by onlt allowing accurate models. In this case, no charge was made for the use of the colours and logo.

Peter

[sarailway]

Just this afternoon, whilst driving home, I thought to my self that I might pick up a small amount of UP loco's and rollingstock as a sideline to my South Australian Railway models. Imagine my surprise to read about this law suit!

Looking at this issue from the other side of the Pacific Ocean, I am indeed saddened. Australian manufacturuers seek permission to use current corporate logos on models. **NOTE** Current corporations! A model of something a corporation owns is seen as a positive thing (I'm sure!). I cannot see why a prominent US railroad would not think otherwise. To suggest that a model of a UP railroad item could possible harm UP is totally ludicrous.

I suspect that all of this litigation has come about because one of the parties dug their heels in and would not come to a sensible compromise.

This is indeed a shame and has a great deal of potential to harm the model railroad industry. No doubt the only truly happy people involved in this sorry mess are the lawers.

Am I still going to try a little UP modelling........ No I dont think so........ Maybe Santa Fe...........

[Anonymous]

If CSX is going to enforce New York Central trademarks, I wonder if they have sent a "cease-and-desist" letter to Union Pacific.

UP's current ad campaign describes UP as "THE ROAD TO THE FUTURE." Isn't that exactly the same slogan painted by NYC on its bay window cabooses?

[BaylorMax]

I wonder if UP can enforce this now after allowing the trademarked logos to be freely used for over 50 years. I haven't looked at the law but I bet both Athearn and Lionel have had their lawyers take a look at this. My gut feeling is that it may be a bit late at this time for UP to try to enforce this now.

Steve Barkley

[Anonymous]

This is one of these situations , where you just have to ask: " What the [censored] are they thinking???" U.P. can't even run its RAILROAD correctly at this point in time, and yet they want to quibble over what is probably the equivalent of nickles and dimes in the grand scheme of things. Oh and CSX isn't just following suit...they actually were the FIRST to try this, back in the '80s, but there was such an outcry over the way they wanted it implemented, that they backed off. Although I DO defend the right of UP to DEFEND their trademarks, this smacks of nothing more than Corporate Greed, and legalized extortion, espescially for roads that UP absorbed, and that Athearn and Lionel probably produced at no cost previously. That UP would do this, on the edge of another service meltdown, shows that someone at the top of the Corporate ladder there has their priorities SERIOUSLY out of whack, and may hint that there are things seriously wrong at UP.

[darth9x9]

I hear tell that Kadee refuses to do any UP or CSX (and any of their predessors) runs because of UPs actions. It's going to interesting to see how this plays out.

[Anonymous]

I think that we model railroaders had better start finding a new hobby like real soon.
Or start hiding of all of the UP stuff until all this blowes over.
If I were a UNION PACIFIC fan, I would be running scared right about now.
BNSFfan.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF9838

I think that we model railroaders had better start finding a new hobby like real soon.
Or start hiding of all of the UP stuff until all this blowes over.
If I were a UNION PACIFIC fan, I would be running scared right about now.
BNSFfan.

Why?

You guys are so over the top on this, you're not even making sense anymore.

You pay for licensed merchandise damn near every time you buy something.

You don't even realize it.

Model trains are no different.

Relax.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF9838

I think that we model railroaders had better start finding a new hobby like real soon.
Or start hiding of all of the UP stuff until all this blowes over.
If I were a UNION PACIFIC fan, I would be running scared right about now.
BNSFfan.

Why?

You guys are so over the top on this, you're not even making sense anymore.

You pay for licensed merchandise damn near every time you buy something.

You don't even realize it.

Model trains are no different.

Relax.

What he said.

[Anonymous]

I'm sick of this. Why do we have to fight over something so dumb?

[Anonymous]

Ok next topic.....please!

[Anonymous]

Ditto!

Those who model AMTRAK were paying a fee BEFORE Union Pacific started theirs!
And CSX will be charging one soon, too.
Others will follow.

It's legal and no big thing.

Grow up!

You sound like a bunch of kids.
(Of course, not knowing ages here, you might BE kids for all I know!)

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF9838

I think that we model railroaders had better start finding a new hobby like real soon.
Or start hiding of all of the UP stuff until all this blowes over.
If I were a UNION PACIFIC fan, I would be running scared right about now.
BNSFfan.

Why?

You guys are so over the top on this, you're not even making sense anymore.

You pay for licensed merchandise damn near every time you buy something.

You don't even realize it.

Model trains are no different.

Relax.

What he said.

[Anonymous]

UP, aka U-**** is in my books, the lowest rated railroad. Sadom Heusine is rated higher

[Anonymous]

and Sadom is lower than dirt so put that in percpective

[Anonymous]

Jay and your lower than them in my book! i love everything U.P. does and i hope they keep pissing more and more people off because what are you gonna do about it? through away your U.P. boxcar or something, lol like they care..i say get every damn dime you can get U.P.!

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up9899

Jay and your lower than them in my book! i love everything U.P. does and i hope they keep pissing more and more people off because what are you gonna do about it? through away your U.P. boxcar or something, lol like they care..i say get every damn dime you can get U.P.!

I notice in many of your post you mention you are glad UP pisses everyone off.
Why? YOU feel good paying more for models? I'd figure a UP fan would be a little upset about the price increase, but still end up paying, cause they like UP.
But you act like you're really happy paying more money.

[Anonymous]

i have NO problem paying more...i like supporting my favorite RR ,you people complain to much about $5 geez!

[philnrunt]

Maybe that's because some of us have to work pretty hard for that 5$. I don't know what you do for a living, 9899, but ANYBODY trying to get deeper into my pockets is enough to make me way upset. The reason dosn't matter, the logic dosn't matter, I only have so much ca***o go around and I don't relish giving it to away, especially if lawyers are involved!

[Anonymous]

Well then dont buy U.P. stuff......leaves more for me. if it wasnt legal i would have a problem, but NFL,Coke a Cole,Disney,ect...all do this also and i buy all there products. So if you dont like it dont buy there stuff!

[philnrunt]

Aggro- it sounds like up9899 might just be living on mom and dads dime. When you don't earn it, it dosn't matter how much stuff costs.
When he gets a little life experience, he might well change his tune.

[simon1966]

I am frankly amazed that companies like UP have not done this years ago! There are very few corporations of this size with a strong brand name and image that would not want to protect the use of the brand. I doubt this is about making a buck out of the modeller, but more about UP trying to get a handle on "who and how" their brand name is used. One might even conclude that UP have been incredibly generous in allowing the free use of their name, logo, paint schemes and images in model RR for decades. If UP handle this correctly, the "fee" will not be high and they will have some say in the quality of the products being licenced. For example, they would be quite within their rights to deny the use of their brand for a really junky poor quality model. The high priced limited production run launch strategy of most of the model RR manufacturers will probably continue to drive prices up more quickly than the UP.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by philnrunt

Aggro- it sounds like up9899 might just be living on mom and dads dime. When you don't earn it, it dosn't matter how much stuff costs.
When he gets a little life experience, he might well change his tune.

Thats what it sounds like.

[philnrunt]

Simon- I won't disagree with any of your post except the "If UP handles this correctly" part. IMHO,from the hornets nest they've stirred up so far, I would say that the chance to handle it correctly has long since passed.
But it would have been interesting to see what the reaction would have been if they had been a little more even handed when this all started.Sometimes all it takes is a "I know this is gonna upset you and we are sorry, but..." attitude and the bitter pill goes down a bit easier.
If Bill posts UP's reply (a response to his e-mail to UP)then maybe we can get the straight dope and see they're reasoning.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up9899

Jay and you r lower than them in my book! i love everything U.P. does and i hope they keep pissing more and more people off because what are you gonna do about it? through away your U.P. boxcar or something, lol like they care..i say get every damn dime you can get U.P.!

A new high in eloquence on the forum?

[simon1966]

Hi Philnrunt

I am glad I am not in the shoes of the folks at UP responsible for PR. For one thing, the speed with which forums like this get worked up is amazing. It seems that whenever a change occurs there is instant venting, rumour, inuendo and not much substance. The demise of the Athearn Blue box is a good example. In the case of UP, it is unlikely that they are even aware of the negative stuff going on here. The statement on the UP web site seems very reasonable to me. http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/modelrail.shtml A few pennies on a box car is not out of order. The point is that I am not sure what the UP could have done to stop the hornets nest buzzing? I have a sneaky feeling that when this all comes to pass the impact on us model RR folks will be minimal. Horizon, who have many licence deals on their RC lines, will get the Athearn issue settled quickly and Lionel, who I think are really out of line considering their own licencing programs, (look under business opportunities on the Lionel web site) will agree to the new terms and all will end peacefully. Its not like either of these companies have never licenced anything (Coca-Cola tracks, John Deere trains etc)

[philnrunt]

Simon- after mowing the yard(thinking time) I can only come up with - If CSX had forced the issue a few years back,they and not UP, would not have been looked upon as satans own .
You're right, there is no way to put a good face (spin?) on this, and most mega-corps pay lip service to PR, but realize that the bottom line IS the bottom line. For UP, a real RR, one of the largest in the world and fairly savvy in the cut throat world of business, to worry about the fallout from this would just be asking way to much.
And, just like anything else we WANT,those that want it will find a way to pay for it.
Good exchanging views with you.

[Anonymous]

UP is so[soapbox] that they dont know how to think strait!

[Hillyard]

Interestingly enough, my first HO trainset from Athearn was a Union Pacific GP7.
This was about 1958.

All of a sudden, athearn is doing something wrong?
Seems like UP has already set a precedent of freely allowing models of their mark.
If I were on the jury, the question in my mind would be, so what's different now? It used to be ok.

my two cents worth, yours for free

Hillyard

[Bergie]

[V]