Union Pacific Sues Athearn & Lionel!

[Anonymous]

From their website press release ( http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/modelrail.shtml )

"Union Pacific defends trademarks

Union Pacific Railroad Company has filed a complaint in U.S. District Court for the District of Nebraska naming as defendants Lionel, L.L.C. and Athearn, Inc. The defendants are model railroad manufacturers who have refused to enter into licensing agreements for their commercial use of Union Pacific trademarks. The complaint alleges claims of infringement of federally registered trademarks, trademark dilution under § 43(c) of the Lanham Act, Unfair Competition under § 43(a) of the Lanham Act, common law trademark infringement, unfair competition, and violation of the Nebraska Uniform Deceptive Trade Practices Act.

Union Pacific believes it is imperative that it defends its trademarks against unauthorized use by Lionel and Athearn. Both companies repeatedly have rejected Union Pacific's lawful licensing requests.

Not only have Lionel and Athearn failed to license use of Union Pacific's historic trademarks, they have violated trademark protection laws by producing new models featuring Union Pacific's latest "Building America" branding and advertising campaign.

Union Pacific notes that Lionel has a very active licensing program that protects its own trademark. It is difficult to understand why Lionel and Athearn believe they are above the law, while more than 60 other manufacturers, including many model railroad manufacturers, have licensed their Union Pacific products in accordance with the law."

Going after the big guys first! I personally don't care, as I do not model UP nor do I have anything with their logos on it. I guess I can sleep OK now! [:D]

Bob Boudreau
Canads

[FJ and G]

I'm having trouble keeping up with all of these stories. Didn't MTH sue Lionel a while back as well? Whatever became of that?
My guess is that all of these suits will be settled out of court.
I'm kinda surprised that no other railroads have yet followed UP's lead in charging fees.
Anyway, I don't see Lionel winning this case except if the roads are predecessor roads. UP gave Lionel fair warning that they would collect fees. What were they thinking? While I don't agree w/UP charging these fees, you cannot simply violate the law.
Dave V

[lupo]

Couldn' t someone tell all these Railroad and Modelrailroad chairpeople to quit arguing
about pennies and get back to ( Model ) Railroading ?
here at the forum we members get that message once in a while and I think it helps
[(-D][(-D]
I hope this argument does not end up with my Lionel Veranda being delivered with [censored] out logoos!

[Big_Boy_4005]

I think we need to start a new forum folder for GRIPES WITH UNION PACIFIC. These topics just keep popping up all over the place. That forum would have a lot more action than the MR 70th anniversary box car (no offense Bergie).

If anyone is interested in my ranting and venting on this topic, it can be found here:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16704[swg]

[Anonymous]

Again can you say......GGGRRREEEDDDGGGRRREEEDDDGGGRRREEEDDD.......LET ME PRONOUNCE IT IN ENGLISH>>>>>>>>>GREED!BNSFfan.

[Anonymous]

THE UP CAN JUST GO [censored]THEM SELVES!
I will NEVER model that [censored] railroad ever again!

[Anonymous]

How about Union Pacific's new slogan for model railroaders - "UP Yours"?

BB in Canada

[philnrunt]

The plot thickens![}:)][}:)] Lets extrapolate this to it's most bizarre end-Athearn wins the lawsuit and takes control of UP! Their trademark slogan then becomes "The biggest little AND biggest big railroad in the world"!
Within 2 weeks Upthearn begins it's final quest to buy up all things railroad,both 1:1 and scale models.
Then , after they have absorbed every model rail manufactuer and real railroad, they begin buying up model railroads all over the world, and begin a ruthless re-paint campaign with Upflo-quil paints.Model railroaders give up their dreams and original schemes, but make millions in the process.To buy more UP equipment.
[:O][:O][:O]
Talk about the neverending story![:P][;)][}:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

How about Union Pacific's new slogan for model railroaders - "UP Yours"?

BB in Canada

LMAO!!![(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]

I do question UP's shenanigans. Seems to me that if they were going to carp about licensing their trademark, they'd have done it light-years ago. Why the barking...now?

[Anonymous]

The model manufactures just need to stop producing UP models and decals. I personnaly would suffer, but this would send a big message to the UP.
Ch

[espeefoamer]

The problem is,they wouldn't only have to stop making UP models, they also would have to stop making models of every road UP took over.That means no more MP,WP,Katy,C&NW, SP,or any of thier subsidiaries.

[Anonymous]

You guys are gonna hate me for this. but I can understand where UP is coming from. If you're a company ur gonna do as much as you can to get money, thats what businesses, do right? As much as I don't like it, I think it's a good idea for the company. I just don't know why other railroads are not doing the same,

[Big_Boy_4005]

If you don't model UP, laugh now, but be prepared to pay later!!

If UP is successful with this action, the others will follow. Lionel and Athearn are standing up for US as modelers, and trying to nip this in the bud. I have said a lot more about all of this over on the CTT forum. My ranting and venting on this topic is continued here:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16704

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

If you don't model UP, laugh now, but be prepared to pay later!!

If UP is successful with this action, the others will follow. Lionel and Athearn are standing up for US as modelers, and trying to nip this in the bud. I have said a lot more about all of this over on the CTT forum. My ranting and venting on this topic is continued here:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16704

Ditto. You can all have your fun punning UP now, but the other railroads will follow. Just take a look, CSX already is trying, next it'll be NS, BNSF, CP, etc. Then everyone will be fed up with paying and be forced to model shortlines or fallen flags (if the current RRs don't take care of that[:(]). I'm a hard core UP fan, and don't approve of this trademarking thing, but, this has gone far enough. And what were freakin Athearn and Lionel thinking when they started making UP models with the UP logos without athorization!? Nothing makes sense anymore............

[Anonymous]

You might be paying for all of the Trademarks soon is correct. The story about CSX was on Trainorders.
Union Pacific purchased 50 HO Overland flag diesels for customers last year. They gave them out to executives and users. They came in a special box and a few were sold to the public because the UP changed their order to add a few AC4400's to the customers, instead of the SD70M's that were orginally ordered.
The cost is small if you consider everything that goes on today.
I was able to purchase one of the Overland SD70M's that was ordered by the UP, but mine is in HO scale, not 1 to 1.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

If you don't model UP, laugh now, but be prepared to pay later!!

If UP is successful with this action, the others will follow. Lionel and Athearn are standing up for US as modelers, and trying to nip this in the bud. I have said a lot more about all of this over on the CTT forum. My ranting and venting on this topic is continued here:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16704

Elliot, nothing I've read addresses why UP is targeting manufacturers RIGHT NOW. This makes Union Pacific rather suspect in my eyes as a result. There didn't seem to be a problem with protecting what they felt was rightfully theres years ago; why the sudden interest? I think it has little to do with guarding their turf and more to do with greed. That's my personal opinion and God help me if I've pissed someone off but frankly, I think UP's corporate brass WREAKS to the High Heavens.[:(!]

[Anonymous]

Gang, we need to look at this UP fiasco in a more positive light. Think about it. The UP lawsuit seems to allege our small railroad empires somehow pose a threat to the financial well being of their corporation. I do not know what you guys are hauling on your railroads that might pose an economic threat to the UP, but I encourage to you continue whatever you are doing.

On a more serious (if I can manage it) note, all we need to do is find the lawyer on the UP legal staff that thought this mess up in an attempt to further his career. We make him grovel and beg for his life, beat him, tell him he is no good. Then we take him out to the infamous wall and shoot him. Then we tell the world who we are. Let everyone know that model railroaders rule the world of transportation. Yes, yes, yes! We are not going to take this crap anymore. UP, in their weakened financial state, will fall to our hostile takeover.

Tom

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Guys,

I can understand why many of us are upset over this but in the end the additional cost to us is pennies for every few dollars. As I stated recently, Disney and sports teams have been doing this for years! And remember it's not Union Pacific so much as it's their "current management", which is not the same management group of 1985.

I'm willing to guess that a bunch of us on this Forum that "are on tight budgets" still buy NFL, NBA, or AL/NL memorobilia, clothes, etc., in spite of Trademarks and Licensing costs that are passed on to all of us!

I'm just suggesting that if you're upset about this UP thing (CSX is following) THINK CLEARLY! In a few years, most of us, especially newbies, will have "distant memories" of this. It's just like when the public eventually got over Disney's "strong arm" tactics to license and protect their trademarks about two decades back (and were they nasty!). Yet, nobody talks about it anymore.

Don't let this sour you. You don't have to like the current leadership, but if you want a "Veranda Turbine", or a "Big Boy"; go for it! A boycott won't phase UP one bit.

Cheers!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by psngrtrn

The model manufactures just need to stop producing UP models and decals. I personnaly would suffer, but this would send a big message to the UP.
Ch

What message would that be?

UP makes its money from transporting goods by rail.

The company does not rely on licensing fees for revenue.

And, please, don't say it's free advertising. Unless shippers come to your basement, see your UP models and then say, "Hmmm. I think I will use Union Pacific to ship my goods," it isn't advertising.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hey Guys,

I can understand why many of us are upset over this but in the end the additional cost to us is pennies for every few dollars. As I stated recently, Disney and sports teams have been doing this for years! And remember it's not Union Pacific so much as it's their "current management", which is not the same management group of 1985.

I'm willing to guess that a bunch of us on this Forum that "are on tight budgets" still buy NFL, NBA, or AL/NL memorobilia, clothes, etc., in spite of Trademarks and Licensing costs that are passed on to all of us!

I'm just suggesting that if you're upset about this UP thing (CSX is following) THINK CLEARLY! In a few years, most of us, especially newbies, will have "distant memories" of this. It's just like when the public eventually got over Disney's "strong arm" tactics to license and protect their trademarks about two decades back (and were they nasty!). Yet, nobody talks about it anymore.

Don't let this sour you. You don't have to like the current leadership, but if you want a "Veranda Turbine", or a "Big Boy"; go for it! A boycott won't phase UP one bit.

Cheers!

Yeah, but....[%-)]
And....[:(!][|(]
Well....[sigh]
Oh, alright! Maybe you're right! [^]
(I'm still cross...but mention of the Veranda Turbine helps[:)] )

[Anonymous]

You guys have to remember that Athearn has been charging extra money for UP related equipment for months now. With this news, it seems as though they never registered with UP and therefore was not charged by them. Yet, Athearn initiated a fee months ago on UP equipment. I feel a little cheated by ATHEARN, not UP.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Allright all you legal eagles, here is a link to what I believe is the section of the Lanham Act that UP is at least in part basing their case.

http://www.bitlaw.com/source/15usc/1125.html

If I understand this correctly, this section of the law was written to protect manufacturers of products from having their labels copied. Things like fake designer jeans, and other "knock off" items.

The problem is that model manufacturers are not in competition with railroads. There is nothing deceptive going on here. It would be very difficult to mistake one for the other.

All of this begs the question, does UP have any protection under copyright law if someone copyrights a photo of one of their locomotives? Because in essence that's what they are claiming.

Food for thought.

[dehusman]

If Athearn has been charging a premium for UP lettered equipment and has NOT registered with UP then they are waaaaaaay worse than the UP ever thought of being. Whether you agree or disagree on the licensing issue, UP has done what they said and has not hidden it. If Athearn has charged extra for licensed s and has not actually licensed them then they are price gouging pure and simple.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

As an overseas modeller, when I used to think of American Railways, I thought UP.
Now I think GREEEEEEEED!
When I go on my railtour of the USA soon, you can bet your boots I won't be travelling by UP.
What an appalling display of raw Corporate Avarice! That is exactly the sort of thinking that makes America so hated around the world. It stands for GREED, GREED, GREED!

[philnrunt]

Bilby2k- Unfortunately, it's always been that way. The lack of decency all American railroads showed in the 19th century made everything they do today seem like philanthropy.
It looks like the corporations of the world (not just the US) think that the pockets of the average person are way deeper than they really are.
The info about Athearn is disturbing, I respect them alot, but now they're under new management it looks like things might be changing.
And the bottom line is, if we just have to have it, we'll pay for it, no matter the price.

[Fergmiester]

Question?

Why aren't we bashing
Coca Cola
Nascar
John Deere
Ford
and everyone else that's charging royalties for their use of their name.
UP is just one of many.

If someone was using your identity wouldn't you want some sort of control or say of how they portrayed you?

Just curious

[Eriediamond]

[#ditto] Fergie, Right on!!! Just a thought here-- take alook at whats available out there as far as buildings go, do you see any McDonalds, Dairy Queen or any brand name gas stations, etc. Hmmmm wonder why???? If you buy a model car kit or truck kit, somewhere on that box it will say "manufactered under license from". I don't understand all the stink about UP or any manufacturer as far as that goes. Been going on for years and all a sudden we gripe about it now????

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

If Athearn has been charging a premium for UP lettered equipment and has NOT registered with UP then they are waaaaaaay worse than the UP ever thought of being. Whether you agree or disagree on the licensing issue, UP has done what they said and has not hidden it. If Athearn has charged extra for licensed s and has not actually licensed them then they are price gouging pure and simple.

Dave H.

If you are seing an additional charge for UP models made by Athearn, make sure that it isn't just your hobby store being opportunistic.

[FJ and G]

Recorded conversations heard on the evening news yesterday from Enron traders:

"We sure F****ed granny."

"Can you shut off the steam plant."
"Yep, can put it off line right away."

Conversations not yet public from UP execs:

"Lets get money out of those scumbag model railroaders"
"OK, we'll slap them with fees."

dave

[lupo]

I guess as from today I am an Roaylty Rebel!
I just received my Lionel UP verandah and apperently I DID NOT PAY TO UP for the use of their logo ![:P][:P]
otoh if I did pay I would not have a problem with it,
Unfortunately I know first hand what it is like
to see others make money with your designs!