For those of you interested in MDC's Shay kits (which I may also try eventually), this is the ultimate website on tips and tricks for building them. I found it to be very interesting, and the builder did an absolutely beautiful job on his Shay.
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Darth,
Great job so far! I hope the repowering goes well. I assembled one of these many years ago for a friend and the weak frame was a big issue then. I hope that you have less trouble than I did.
Marty and Fred;
A NG modeler from Mississippi has bought all the unused kits and parts for the MDC shay from Horizon. He is now offering what he calls semi-kits for sale. These are not standard MDC kits. The models are offered for specific prototypes, mostly HOn3. They do come with custom made brass parts to match the prototype, plus a complete list of extra detail parts you need for each prototype.
The chassis comes assembled with a can motor and both NWSL shay regear kits installed. Eight wheel pick-up is also installed. These are sweet runners. Depending on prototype, custom made cab pieces and brass frame end castings are included. He also has a line of custom parts, (brass), for shays, passenger & freight cars, and I think even other NG locos.
The instructions are a lot more complete than the MDC instructions and he even tells you which suggestions to follow from Jeff Johnston's "The MDC Shay Handbook".
I am currently assembling a Mann's Creek #2, and a "generic" standard gauge shay.
I am not suggesting to anyone to buy this kit, nor am I "shilling" for the man. But he has taken what can be a good kit and made it great. I believe he advertises in the NG&SLG and possibly our host's magazine. If you want more info, contact me via e-mail/PM and I will give you his contact info.
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
Not fun when you don't get what you paid for. In that position with a locomotive purchased online. Fortunately, it's a Mantua and under warranty.
Thanks for your input to this thread all. I have one MDC two truck kit Shay that was put together by someone else. It wasn't running and was basically just losely assembled. It's running pretty good now, but still needs some tweaking. I trimmed off the teeth of the line gears which helped the engine to run much smoother. Still a bit of a jump periodically, so some more adjustment is still needed. Overall, I'm happy with the locomotive. It handles the steep grades well and I kinda like the clackety noise. Still have to work out how I want to do my lights, but that shouldn't be to hard.
I also have another two truck and a three truck kit to put together, so insights into the assembly of all the different Shay kits helps. The solutions and tricks make life a lot easier.
I got my powering kit in the mail today. Unfortunately, one of the worm shaft assemblies is missing, and they didn't give me the can motor I paid for (they specifically said it had the can motor, and charged me more for it, but I got the cheap open-frame motor instead). The parts I do have of the kit are very high quality, and after some quick simple tests, I've found they work very smoothly. It should be an excellent runner when it's done. But, I'll have to wait a little longer now before I can finish it.
Here's a few comparison shots for everyone.
Oakhurst Railroad EngineerNot to mention, the Bachmann Shay trucks are of poor quality ... NWSL has replacement gears to improve them that I haven't tried yet, but hope to in the future.
The Bachmann trucks are really pretty nice. It's just those plastic line gears, which split on many, and stayed perfect on others. I got the NWSL gears to replace the split gears on my Bachmann Shay. They're made from steel and work absolutely great, but installation was a little difficult (especially on the rear truck). I had to put a dot of super glue on the flat side of each one to keep them from slipping out of place.
Oakhurst Railroad EngineerThis e-bay item is a Roundhouse 2-truck Shay and is quite a bit larger than the Keystone Shay. Anyone have one of the Roundhouse 2-truck ready-to-run Shays? How is the quality, noise, electrical pcik-up, etc.? and how would you compare to a motorized Keystone Shay? I built one from a kit and it is OK, but not great . Marty
I built one from a kit and it is OK, but not great .
Marty
From all I've learned, the RTR Roundhouse Shays were assembled in China, but all the original design problems were present in the parts that were given to the Chinese assemblers. And they have had even more problems with inferior gears than the US-produced kits did. Net result is that unless lineshaft parts were deliberately left off or assembled disengaged during assembly, the RTR models will have split gears - it's just a matter of how little running time you get before the gears split. The binding that results from all lineshafts engaging their drive wheels will happen in the RTR model, causing the axle gear to bind/split/crack. That's if didn't already split from the shrinkage issue with the axle gear material (similar to early Proto 2000 and early Athearn steam models produced in China).
For those reasons, I stuck with the kit versions of the Roundhouse Shays so that I could correct the deficiencies before and during assembly. The NWSL full regear kit (2 part numbers) is highly recommended as a step to a smooth-running Shay.
The Keystone/NWSL kit is another level of difficulty compared to the Roundhouse Shay - which NWSL warns you about. The Keystone Shay kit builds a model for static display. The NWSL motorizing kit substitutes key components so that the model can be a locomotive. However, depending on the run of the NWSL motorizing kit, the NWSL frame pieces may not be hard enough for long life. NWSL gets (got) these parts on special order from Keystone - for a while NWSL couldn't get them sufficiently hard, and had discontinued production of the motorizing kit. Another problem area was the discontinuance of the Sagami motor the NWSL kit was built around.
Given that the electrical pickups and gears come from NWSL, the quality of these components is better than their Roundhouse counterparts. But using the NWSL regear kit and installing different electrical pickups on the Roundhouse brings the two pretty close. When completed, on my layout the 2 Keystone Shays will serve on the narrow gauge line, and the Roundhouse (at least the 2 truck) will use it's larger size on standard gauge, where the size is more appropriate.
just my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Oakhurst Railroad EngineerAnyone have one of the Roundhouse 2-truck ready-to-run Shays? How is the quality, noise, electrical pcik-up, etc
Yes, I recently purchased a 2 truck RTR Roundhouse. It's as bad as the kits are. Noisy as heck, bad electrical pickup, the covers underneath both trucks pop off when going in reverse, Unusable as purchased, but I expected this, so I have no complaints. An order to NWSL remedied all of these problems. I need to improve the electrical pickup, and the lights are LED (blue). It was DCC ready, after all of this, I almost have it to a usable model. I'll be happy to put the NWSL gears on my Bachmanns anytime, the Bachmanns are superior in noise, pickup, low speed running. Why did I get an MDC? I wanted a 2 truck shay, and I wanted to do the MDC/NWSL upgrades just to do it, it was enjoyable. The picture below shows me breaking in the bullgear assembly.
Edit: As Fwright mentions below, I removed all of the line shaft gears except one, one is all you need to drive the line shaft, crank and the motor. As you are aware, on the MDC, these components are for animation only, and are not used to propel the MDC shay.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Bill H. Got me thinking... Check that auction site, item # 230417673987 Allegedly brand new. Might be helpful.
Got me thinking... Check that auction site, item # 230417673987
Allegedly brand new. Might be helpful.
This e-bay item is a Roundhouse 2-truck Shay and is quite a bit larger than the Keystone Shay. Anyone have one of the Roundhouse 2-truck ready-to-run Shays? How is the quality, noise, electrical pcik-up, etc.? and how would you compare to a motorized Keystone Shay?
www.oakhurstrailroad.com
"Oakhurst Railroad" on Facebook
Darth Santa FeThe NWSL kit is more like the MDC drive, but to a much higher level of quality. It includes full trucks, geared nickel-silver wheels, stronger sideframes, full side gearing, a middle transfer gearbox with about a 3:1 ratio, universals, and a can motor. The Bachmann trucks wouldn't fit because they're much larger than the Keystone Shay's trucks.
The NWSL kit is more like the MDC drive, but to a much higher level of quality. It includes full trucks, geared nickel-silver wheels, stronger sideframes, full side gearing, a middle transfer gearbox with about a 3:1 ratio, universals, and a can motor. The Bachmann trucks wouldn't fit because they're much larger than the Keystone Shay's trucks.
Darth Santa FeThe Bachmann trucks wouldn't fit because they're much larger than the Keystone Shay's trucks.
Not to mention, the Bachmann Shay trucks are of poor quality ... NWSL has replacement gears to improve them that I haven't tried yet, but hope to in the future.
Darth Santa Fe Geared Steam, I won't be using Keystone's trucks or wheels. They're the same soft metal that the rest of the kit's made from, so they would wear out quickly, and the uninsulated wheels would short out.
Geared Steam, I won't be using Keystone's trucks or wheels. They're the same soft metal that the rest of the kit's made from, so they would wear out quickly, and the uninsulated wheels would short out.
Thats what I thought, does the NWSL kit drive throught the rear truck?
Oakhurst Railroad Engineer, I'd also like to see how it will all fit together. There are no good pictures that I can find of NWSL's power kit, so I'll make sure to post a picture of it before assembly.
Darth
This is going to be great, thanks for posting. Are you going to use the Keystone trucks/wheels?
Great! I look forward to seeing the rest of the story. I'd love to see how to get a motor and gears into that tiny locomotive ...
Thanks,
This Christmas, I was given a brand new Class A 20-ton 2-truck Shay kit by Keystone! This topic will cover my progress as I finish it.
I've also started assembling some basic details to the boiler and tender. Beyond this, I won't be doing much more until I get my powering kit from NWSL (currently back in stock!). According to the listing on their website, it will include a 10x25mm can motor. I was going to try and fit a coreless motor I happened to have in the Shay, but it's too big to look good. I think the NWSL motor is a Sagami or something similar, so it should still work very well.
More later!