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Building an HO scale Keystone Shay (FINISHED, with VIDEO!!)

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Posted by Packers#1 on Saturday, January 9, 2010 9:49 PM

 Darth, even though I'm an N scale modern era diesel nut, I can't help but look at your build threads and marvel at your work. Thank you for posting your progress so far and please continue to do so,a nd excellent work so far!

Sawyer Berry

Clemson University c/o 2018

Building a protolanced industrial park layout

 

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:46 PM

I got the rest of my parts from NWSL today!Big Smile Both trucks are now powered, and I've got a good motor running it.Big Smile On just a 9" straight track, the Shay runs smooooth.Big Smile Low speeds aren't great yet, but they should improve a lot once I get it to the point that I can run it on my layout and break it in. I don't have any pictures yet, but I'll be sure to post some later.

According to NWSL, the 10x25mm can motor has a 3-pole skewed armature, and the armature's diameter is around 15% larger than other motors of the same width, giving it more power (stall torque = 0.3 oz-in, which is a lot for this motor's size).

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:41 PM

New update!Big Smile


I've now mounted the pilots and coupler boxes on both ends. I used Kadee's Whisker coupler boxes for this. They didn't fit at first, but modifying them was pretty easy. I used the Whisker boxes because they use a snap-on cover, and the entire box sits in the frame. The couplers are scale size #58s, and sit about 0.5mm above the correct height (not nearly enough to cause worry).


The NWSL can motor. It's plenty strong for driving the Keystone Shay, and it's fairly quiet.


The front truck now has its wormshaft and universal in place, so all the wheels are driven instead of four.Big Smile


The motor is mostly hidden by the tender. It shouldn't show up so much once the whole engine's painted and assembled.

I put in temporary wiring from the rear truck to the motor to test it on the layout. It runs along nice and smooth, but the metal gears will need plenty of time for getting fully broken-in. Realistic speeds are up to about 5.5V (about 10 scale MPH, I'm guessing), and beyond that the engine's crankshaft spins too quickly to look realistic. It's still a nice runner, however.Big Smile NWSL provides super flexible wire for the trucks, which I'll use for the final assembly and wiring.

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Sunday, January 17, 2010 5:34 PM

Since the Shay's running pretty well now, I've decided to start with the detailing,Big Smile


It's hard to find any good pictures of this sort of Shay, so I'm using other Shay models and pictures for reference. Some of the detail parts will be left off during painting to simplify masking. I think this is going to look pretty nice when it's all done.Big Smile

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Posted by Arjay1969 on Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:30 PM

Darth Santa Fe
It's hard to find any good pictures of this sort of Shay, so I'm using other Shay models and pictures for reference. Some of the detail parts will be left off during painting to simplify masking. I think this is going to look pretty nice when it's all done.Big Smile

 

 

Very nice indeed, Darth!  Can't wait to see her in paint! Smile

 

Have you seen http://www.shaylocomotives.com/?  I found it quite useful when building one of these for a friend of mine in HOn3.

Robert Beaty

The Laughing Hippie

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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!

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Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the

end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming

your way.          -Metallica, No Leaf Clover

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Posted by tbdanny on Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:38 PM

 It's looking pretty nice already. Thumbs Up

The Location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest, Oregon
The Year: 1948
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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:51 PM

Arjay1969
Have you seen http://www.shaylocomotives.com/?  I found it quite useful when building one of these for a friend of mine in HOn3.

I have seen that website before, but thanks for the link.Smile It's still hard to find photos of a Class A, but from what's there it looks like I've got most all of the basic piping on. Nobody seems to take many photos of the left side of the good ones, do they?

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Posted by jwhitten on Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:57 PM

 That's really cool! Good luck on the project and here's hoping you'll post more pictures!

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
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Posted by jwhitten on Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:59 PM

Darth Santa Fe

Since the Shay's running pretty well now, I've decided to start with the detailing,Big Smile



It's hard to find any good pictures of this sort of Shay, so I'm using other Shay models and pictures for reference. Some of the detail parts will be left off during painting to simplify masking. I think this is going to look pretty nice when it's all done.Big Smile

 

 

What is the reddish wire that you're using?

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Monday, January 18, 2010 12:07 AM

jwhitten
What is the reddish wire that you're using?

It's coated copper wire. I have a whole spool of it on my workbench, and I've found it to be extremely useful for a number of things. I prefer it over brass wire for large curved details, because it's much easier to get a smooth curve out of it.Big Smile It's also the same thickness as the usual brass detail wire, so it looks exactly the same once it's painted. But brass wire is still better for details that need a sharp bend or more durability, like grab irons.

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Posted by jwhitten on Monday, January 18, 2010 7:46 AM

Darth Santa Fe

jwhitten
What is the reddish wire that you're using?

It's coated copper wire. I have a whole spool of it on my workbench, and I've found it to be extremely useful for a number of things. I prefer it over brass wire for large curved details, because it's much easier to get a smooth curve out of it.Big Smile It's also the same thickness as the usual brass detail wire, so it looks exactly the same once it's painted. But brass wire is still better for details that need a sharp bend or more durability, like grab irons.

 

 

That's cool. I was imagining that after it was painted and thinking that will look pretty good.

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Monday, January 25, 2010 10:01 PM

I'm starting to get the Shay ready for painting. When I pulled the crankshaft out of the engine, it basically fell apart. I tried putting it together again, but it bent out of shape enough that I can't get it to work smoothly.

I'm going to try and rebuild the crankshaft using the leftover 1.5mm steel shaft provided by NWSL for the universals (I've got about 1.5" left over Big Smile). And instead of holding it together with super-glue, I'm going to use epoxy. It should be much stronger than before, so the "engine" will work again, hopefully!

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:05 AM

I've now rebuilt the crankshaft.Big Smile

The only thing that was replaced was the center shaft. I modified the Keystone parts to fit on a 1.5mm NWSL steel shaft, epoxied the whole thing together, and it WORKS!Big Smile

Now that that's done, I should be able to get to painting soon.Big Smile

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Thursday, February 4, 2010 10:38 AM

I've decided to hold off on the painting for a little while. I recently got a very good deal on a new MDC 3-truck Shay kit (I say "new" because it comes with a can motor) with both of NWSL's gear kits included.Big SmileBig Smile It should be coming today, and I'll focus on building it. Once it's built, I'll paint it and the Keystone Shay together.Big Smile

BTW, did any major railroads use Class A Shays? Or were they only used by small railroads that no manufacturer in their right mind would make HO scale decals for?

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Posted by MPRR on Thursday, February 4, 2010 3:35 PM

Wow, I'm jealous.  2 Shays? Thats sounds like a small fleet I'd like to own. I've been following your thread because I'm interested in trying this project out someday. Can't wait to see the new addition.. And the final products once they're painted.  Good work!

Mike Captain in Charge AJP Logging RR
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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Monday, February 22, 2010 1:03 AM

I brought my Shays home from painting today, and have mainly been working on the Keystone. The boiler, cab, frame, and engine are now permanently assembled together, and my 6-diode constant lighting circuit with all the wiring is sealed inside (except for the wire I need to access later, which will be taped off for the dull coat). Almost all of the detail is assembled, and all it needs now before the final clear dull coat is some touch up paint and the decals.Big Smile It's looking even better than I imagined it would, and I'll post pictures tomorrow.Big Smile

(Note to painters: Scalecoat II seems to have a little trouble with soft white metal, and I had to touch up a lot of thin spots (yes, I know it's meant more for plastic). It does do fine on the more typical cast metal used in most kits, and on brass)

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Posted by Arjay1969 on Monday, February 22, 2010 10:43 AM

 Can't wait to see it, Darth! Smile

About the paint...did you use some sort of primer?

Robert Beaty

The Laughing Hippie

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the

end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming

your way.          -Metallica, No Leaf Clover

-----------------------------------------------------------------

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:41 AM

I've now finished the detail and added decals.Big Smile I meant to put the pictures up yesterday, but there was some sort of problem with logging in. But anyway, here they are.Big Smile


Left side. The Scalecoat paint is very high gloss, making it good for placing decals. It'll look better once it has the dull coat. The railroad name I put on is fictional.


Right side. The whistle that's on there isn't the original. The soft Keystone whistle somehow ended up under my chair, and is now quite flat. I used an extra Bowser whistle and some flattened brass wire to make a new one, and fortunately it turned out pretty good.Big Smile


Front. The boiler looks a lot better with the smokebox door on there.Big Smile You can't really see it in this picture, but the boiler and cab all lean to the left a little bit.


Back. Nothing too special here.


The cab. I blended Modelflex "Railbox Yellow" and "CSX Blue" to make the green paint, and it turned out very good.Big Smile

All that's left now is the dull coat and final assembly.Big Smile I think this is going to be one nice Shay when it's all finished.Big Smile

Arjay1969
About the paint...did you use some sort of primer?

No, I didn't use primer this time, and that may have been my problem. I figured that with the bold dark colors, I wouldn't need it. I think I will use it for my upcoming painting projects (Tenshodo GP20, Bowser L-1 2-8-2, Cary E6A, and MDC Harriman 2-8-0).

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:34 AM

The Keystone Shay sitting by the much larger MDC/Roundhouse Shay. I'm hoping to have them both done this weekend.Big Smile

I also posted this in my topic for the other Shay. That Keystone Shay really is small next to another larger one!

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Posted by Arjay1969 on Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:24 AM

 Very nice, Darth!  Now we need video of these beasties running! Big Smile

Robert Beaty

The Laughing Hippie

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the

end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming

your way.          -Metallica, No Leaf Clover

-----------------------------------------------------------------

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:13 PM

Arjay1969

 Very nice, Darth!  Now we need video of these beasties running! Big Smile

I'll try getting a video up.Big Smile

Once these are all done, I think I'll put up a Shay comparison for everyone. All three of my Shays (Spectrum, MDC, Keystone) are very nice, but wouldn't it be interesting to see how they are side-by-side?

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:20 PM

After 2 months of work, the Shay is finally finished!!Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile

From this...


to this!!



Those pictures are kind of blurry, but I wanted to show the directional constant lighting.Big Smile

The most important side of a Shay. Some people won't bother with making the crankshaft and rods operational, but I wanted mine to have the full effect.Big Smile My rebuilt crankshaft with a steel shaft and epoxy works great!Big Smile

NWSL's drive. My wiring arrangment isn't spectacular, but it works.

A cheap HO scale man standing on the little Shay. I didn't notice there was some gray left on the domes until I took this picture. It's been fixed.

Sitting with the 4x larger Spectrum Shay (80-ton vs. 20-ton).

Pulling 10 full size cars like it's no big deal.Big Smile

Getting this thing built has taken a lot of time and work, but it was all worth it!Big Smile After a little more fine-tuning, it runs smoothly, steadily, and pretty quietly for an engine with a spur gear transfer. It needs more run time before the low speed control is excellent, but it can still run pretty slowly. Some parts are fragile enough that I want to avoid taking it apart again, because believe me! This is not a fun engine to disassemble after it's been put together!!

I am overall very happy with my new Shay.Big Smile If anyone else is looking for a real challenge to be proud of, the Keystone Shay is it, and I would highly recommend it (to experts; beginners beware!!).Big Smile

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Posted by JoeinPA on Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:24 PM

 Beautiful job Darth! I enjoyed following your progress.  What's your next project?  I hope you decide to share it with us.

Joe

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Posted by SteamFreak on Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:12 PM

Darth, If you have a few parts left over, try this next: http://www.shorpy.com/node/7786  Wink

 Excellent job and tutorial! Thumbs Up That crankshaft looks like a nightmare. The three straight sections between the eccentrics cranks that you replaced -- what was the original material? Brass? Did you have to drill out the cranks to accept the 1.5mm shaft?

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Posted by Grampy1 on Saturday, February 27, 2010 9:42 PM

Now that would be a fun build. Smile  This has been a great project to follow. You have done such an excellent job. Congratulations. Smile 

As near as I can tell the Spectrum Shay is a reasonable representation of a West Coast Shay which were made specifically for the challenging conditions  and massicw logs along the west coast. They were the most advanced Shays and the largest. Some of the early ones look almost toy like when placed beside them. Such a variety.Smile

Geared is the way to tight radius and steep grades. Ghost River Rwy. "The Misty Loggers" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs5qJPRumLA
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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:57 PM

Thanks everyone for your compliments.Big Smile

JoeinPA, I think my next project will be to finish painting my Samhongsa 4-4-0, but I have some others that need finishing too. I'll be sure to put up pictures of them.Smile

SteamFreak, that's a very interesting Shay there, but I think I'll leave that project up to someone else. The crankshaft was originally a single piece casting of soft white metal. When that fell apart, I cut off the cast shaft and drilled the cranks out for the steel shaft.

Grampy1, it has been a fun project.Big Smile The Spectrum Shay definitely has more extra details, but as far as I can tell, the Keystone Shay has most of the detail the real Class A Shays did. So I guess the early ones do look a little "toy-like" compared to the modern ones.

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Posted by Arjay1969 on Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:26 PM

 Darth, I continue to be awed by your skill at building steam locomotives.  Well done, sir! Smile

Robert Beaty

The Laughing Hippie

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the

end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming

your way.          -Metallica, No Leaf Clover

-----------------------------------------------------------------

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Posted by Grampy1 on Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:47 PM

You are so right, Darth. Personally I'm impressed with the detail on all of the Shays currently being offered or recently offered. The variety of models is quite varied. Everything from the small to the large and in scale. Smile

A number of years ago there was quite a discussion going on, and maybe still is, about the scale of the Heislers being offered by Rivarossi. I think they are very close if not accurate. I've seen a Heiseler and have seen pictures of a West Coast Heisler beside a West Coast Shay. They are both massive machines, so Rivarossi is bang on the money in my books and so is Spectrum. Dang, I like geared locomotives. Big Smile

Geared is the way to tight radius and steep grades. Ghost River Rwy. "The Misty Loggers" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs5qJPRumLA
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Posted by wedudler on Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:22 AM

 Great work!

Years ago I've bought a PFM shay - and it's fun! If your engine is a good runner you will have hours of pleasure. Enjoy it.

Wolfgang

Pueblo & Salt Lake RR

Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de          my videos        my blog

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Posted by SteamFreak on Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:19 AM

Darth Santa Fe
The crankshaft was originally a single piece casting of soft white metal. When that fell apart, I cut off the cast shaft and drilled the cranks out for the steel shaft.

Wow, a white metal crankshaft... no wonder they don't last. Nice job putting it all back together.

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