Won't stay coupled! Any Suggestions?

[HO Brian]

Hi,

I have a problem with my rolling stock not staying coupled, even when they have the same couplers (though not all of them do). I have even tried tying the couplers together with fishing line but that doesn’t hold for long. Anyway, do any of you have a suggestion?

Brian

[jeffrey-wimberly]

 More information is needed. What type of couplers? Knuckle or horn hook? Where do come uncoupled? On rough track? On grades? Have the couplers all been set properly and checked with a coupler height gauge?

[HO Brian]

>More information is needed. <

 Thanks for the speedy reply!

>What type of couplers?<

Some are EZ knuckle, some are Kadee, and some that look like these. 

>Where do come uncoupled?<

At each end of the rolling stock...Ok, just kidding.  It will happen randomly.  Sometimes I get several loops around the layout and sometimes I get half way around.  Never in the same spot.  Dont' have any grades.

>Have the couplers all been set properly and checked with a coupler height gauge?<

Ok, now I feel like a rookie model railroader.  No, I haven't done this.  Is this possible with rolling stock that is from different manufactures?  I've tried replacing couplers that seem to let go more often that others and in doing so, noticed that many of my cars (rolling stock) have different ways to mount the couplers.  To bad there is not a standard. 

 Anyway, I have tried to standardize my couplers using Kadee but there isn't always a conversion for the different brands of cars and engines that I have.

thank you again for replying!

Brian

[tbdanny]

Brian,

Just another couple of questions;

1) How long is your rolling stock?

2) Are the couplers body-mounted, truck-mounted or both?

[Flashwave]

Are your couplers at the same height as each other? If not, they need to be. Or, at least close

I'm gonna reccomend looking at Sergent Couplers, Hang on I'll get the link, the couple like real ones, there's no room between the knuckles to bounce like Spring couplers, even Kadees, have room between the spring knuckles to bounce back and forth, and slide out.

http://www.sergentengineering.com/ 

[HO Brian]

>How long is your rolling stock?<

They are not the really long cars. 

>Are the couplers body-mounted, truck-mounted or both?<

Body

 

Thanks

[HO Brian]

Do the Sergent Couplers need the coupling tool every time a car gets mated to another car or engine?

Brian

[dehusman]

Get a Kadee couple gauge to make sure all your couplers are the same height.  If you don't have or can't get one of those, pick one car and start coupling cars into that car and making sure the couplers are the same height.  Anything more than half a coupler off needs work.  Keep track of which ends of which cars are high or low.

If your couplers have springs in them make sure they are in place.  If they "whiskers" , especially plastic ones, check to make sure they are still in place and working. 

Get two cars that have couplers the same height.  Couple them together and roll them slowly around the layout, watching the coupler match.  If the couplers move up or downmore than a small part of the coupler face then you have track irregularity, shim it or fix it to get it level.

Sargent couplers aren't compatible with any other brand of couplers, so if you go with them you will have to change all your equipment and it won't work on any layout without matching couplers.

[Phoebe Vet]

Take two cars that sometimes spontaneously uncouple.  Use one to pull the other slowly around your track by hand while you watch the couplers closely.  If you have humps in your track you will see vertical movement between the couplers.  That indicates a roadbed problem.

Invest in a coupler height gauge:

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/HO-Scale%20Coupler%20Gauges.htm

 

[HO Brian]

Thanks so much for the replies!!  Now, when I get a couplier height gauge and find that there is a change that is needed, I need to get coupliers that are offset to match what the gauge says..right?  Or are you suggesting some type of shim? 

Also, the idea of moving the cars around the set and watching the coupliers sounds great for see where the track is bumpy.

Thanks again guys!

Brian

[cudaken]

 Brain, first and I remember the pain of learning! First I have had no luck with stock (Bachmann) couplers, they get throwing away as soon as I open the box! Even the Bachmann couplers with springs do not hold very well. ( I think there silver cars have them)

 Kadee makes washer's so on very small differences in coupler height you do not have to change couplers. I uses .010 (gray) and .015 (red) washers. Some times you will need to use 2 of them.

 I be happy to help, PM me if you want to talk on the phone. I type real slow!

        Cuda Ken

[hcc25rl]

 Sir;  Either buy couplers that match, or , buy a KD coupler gizmo, or go fishing with the fishing line you're using.

Jimmy

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 Your tying the cars together with fishing line and they are still coming apart, what are you hauling in them lead? First off get yourself a coupler height gauge from Kadee and check all the coupler heights of all your cars. One of the most common reasons for uncoupling. #2 if you are running Kadee or similar type knuckle couplers make sure they have metal springs. the plastic ones weaken over time resulting in the couplers opening up typically on a grade.

[TomDiehl]

I had used some EZ Mate couplers because that's what came with my Walthers Superliners. After trying to run a train of these up a grade, I had major problems with uncoupling with them. Upon closer examination, I saw them come apart because the coupler shank was twisting under the load causing the coupers to slip out of each other. I converted these cars to metal Kadee's (set to the proper height by the Kadee gauge) and haven't had a bit of trouble with them since.

I've stayed with the Kadee metal couplers since they're the ones that work reliably. The standard #5 and the 40 series if you need offset head or long or short shank.

[doctorwayne]

HO Brian

Anyway, I have tried to standardize my couplers using Kadee but there isn't always a conversion for the different brands of cars and engines that I have.

 

Brian, Kadee makes a coupler to fit almost anything in HO, and for those few not covered, you should be able to modify a Kadee to suit.

Wayne

[modelmaker51]

Here's the conversion list PDF (you'll need adobe):

http://www.kadee.com/conv/holist.pdf

[ndbprr]

Each family of cars has a slightly different arrangement for the coupler pocket (draft gear on the prototype) so once you figure out how tofix one car of a certain brand the fix should apply to all cars of that brand.  That being said sometimes slight differences in rail height can cause cars to roll toward the front of the train activating in essence an uncoupoling action so check for dips.  I run primarily Athearn cars and here are my discoveries from over the years;

1. The little stamped cover can either be bent like /_/ or isn't engaged over the ears allowing the coupler to droop. Squeezing the sides with needle nose pliars gently will allow it to seat and raise the coupler sunstantially.  You will here a little click when in place.

2.  The weights used on athearn cars are sheared metal and often have a twist which forces the coupler pockets downward. make sure the weight is perfectly flat by pressing on it with your thumbs on a flat surface.

3. Totaly unrelated to your question but if your cars are too light I handle that by filling them with soupy plaster.  It forms to the car shape, adds substantial weight, is cheap and easy and if any gets on the outside it can be wiped off with a damp rag.

3.  On any car if everything is alligned and one coupler is too low Kadee makes some very thin washers you put between the truck and the bolsetr on the car to raise up the coupler.  they work great.

[Mr. SP]

Some really good remedies posted. One overlooked: Get rid of the EZMates, McHenery and other plastic couplers. The plastic couplers are flexible and even if mounted correctly wil not stay where they belong.

KADEE ONLY is what works the best. As others have posted get a Kadee coupler hight gauge and mount your couplers to to match to it.

I have a fifteen car Walthers Empire Builder and couldn't keep the cars coupled. Junking the imposter couplers replacing them with Kadee fixed the problem.

[wjstix]

Mr. SP

Some really good remedies posted. One overlooked: Get rid of the EZMates, McHenery and other plastic couplers. The plastic couplers are flexible and even if mounted correctly wil not stay where they belong.

KADEE ONLY is what works the best. As others have posted get a Kadee coupler hight gauge and mount your couplers to to match to it.

I have a fifteen car Walthers Empire Builder and couldn't keep the cars coupled. Junking the imposter couplers replacing them with Kadee fixed the problem.

That was my first thought too. I would bet if you check when you have an uncoupling for no apparent reason, one of the plastic knock-off couplers will be involved. If a car or engine comes with pretend-Kadees I'll leave em on until they fail (which they eventually do) and then replace them with Kadees.

I'd try test running a train that only has Kadee couplers and see if there are unwanted uncouplings. If so, it's a problem of the track being uneven or something like that. If not it's the plastic couplers.

[BIGLOUMAY]

Another thing to check, along with the coupler height, is the amount of play the coupler has. If there is too much vertical play, the couplers will sometimes uncouple as well.

[HO Brian]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the advise!! It seems pretty clear that I need to:

Buy a height gauge from Kadee

Buy Kadee couplers to replace the ones that I now have.

Check the pdf file (thanks modelmaker51) to see what couplers and shims I need.

The other ideas of the cars weight, rolling the car’s along the track and watching the couplers, and etc all sound good.

I’ll give these ideas a try in the next few weeks (have to order the stuff through the mail) and see what happens.

This does lead me to another question. Are the body mounted couplers better or the truck mounted? I’ve only seen the truck mounted a few times.

 Thanks again. Brian

[Phoebe Vet]

Body mounted couplers are better, but truck mounted couplers allow you to go around tighter curves.  That's why you see truck mounts on long passenger cars intended to run on 18 inch curves.

You don't need to make all those changes at once.  Apply them one at a time until the problem is solved, then you can make the other changes at your leisure.

[Hansel]

Here is my $0.02

Buy all new #5 Kadees, and probably a bunch of the high offset Kadee couplers too.  There has been many threads about other types of couplers, but it seems that most of the modelers swear by Kadees and nothing else.  Just remember to get the coupler height gage.  Depending on what you have, you might have to do some modifications to your gear boxes.  I have some old Athearn tank cars and had to glue the bottoms to the frame.  Other rolling stock, I had to cut out or cut off the original gear box and glue on or screw on the Kadee gear box that comes with all of their couplers.  You can even buys these couplers in bulk. 

The other tip, I might add is to throw out your plastic wheels and replace them with Intermountain metal wheels.  Makes the cars run a heck of lot smoother.  And you can buy these in bulk too at a good discount.

Don't forget to add weights to rolling stock to get to the NMRA weight standards.

Enjoy!

[Autobus Prime]

Hansel

Buy all new #5 Kadees, and probably a bunch of the high offset Kadee couplers too.  There has been many threads about other types of couplers, but it seems that most of the modelers swear by Kadees and nothing else.  Just remember to get the coupler height gage.  Depending on what you have, you might have to do some modifications to your gear boxes.  I have some old Athearn tank cars and had to glue the bottoms to the frame.  Other rolling stock, I had to cut out or cut off the original gear box and glue on or screw on the Kadee gear box that comes with all of their couplers.  You can even buys these couplers in bulk. 

H:

Those tank cars are a pain in the caboose, because the actual coupler cover overhangs the screws that hold it on, and it flexes, allowing the coupler to sag, then slip out.  I drilled the cover and mounting post and installed tiny screws (00, I think), which solved the problem.

I tend to agree with people here that prefer Kadees, but mostly because they uncouple better, and because they take a low coupling force; you don't have to SLAM the cars together (this may not be realistic, depending on your prototype. ).  My trains are short, 5-10 cars, and the plastic ones are adequately strong to stay coupled, if they're adjusted to the right height, so they don't bend and slip out.

I recommend "Lincoln Weights" for light cars.  You can buy them at the bank.  A roll of fifty costs half a dollar.    A different brand is sold in Canada.

[HO Brian]

Wow, you know. All of this buying new to replace what it came with, measuring with a gauge, changing out trucks…. Really makes me think harder about what brand of rolling stock I buy to avoid these problems in the first place. You know, do it right the first time type of thinking!

Thanks,

Brian

[Autobus Prime]

B:

Well, there's something in that, but you shouldn't feel like you /have/ to do every upgrade, or do every one at once.  The only absolute requirement, IMnsHO, is an NMRA gage (if you have precision calipers, you can use them with a table of NMRA standards, but they cost more. :) ).  Once you have that, you know what needs immediate attention,and what might be all right the way it is.

I still use plastic wheels on practically everything that didn't come with metal, and a lot of them are one-piece molded wheelsets (horrors!)  Some of my secondhand Life-Like trainset cars didn't roll so well, so they got snap-in one-piece plastic wheelsets (bought from Tichy; I'm not sure who actually produces them.)  These roll very well.  Light cars got some Lincoln weights (pennies, if you haven't guessed that. )

Most of the Life-Like and Tyco cars still have their snap-in trucks, and most of them have Walthers Scenemaster plastic knuckle couplers snapped into the original Talgo mountings.  If you tweak them a bit, they couple pretty well, and it's a quick and very cheap way to make them work with my better cars, which are mostly Bowser, Accurail, and MDC.   Some have Tichy archbar trucks and Kadee couplers in their own boxes. 

This fleet violates practically all The Rules but the cars roll, and they stay on the track, and presumably haul plenty of scale freight.  My little plastic engineers don't care if the cars are lettered for Jell-O, as long as they can read the reporting marks, and as long as they match the index-card waybills.

 

[Mr. SP]

The Athearn Blue Box tank cars are a problem. I made a quick and easy correction to the droopy coupler problem. On the top frame piece there is a small circular depression where the centre post of the coupler box is located. Put the two frame pieces together WITHOUT cement. Using a number 50 bit, drill a hole through both frame pieces where the depression is. After drilling the hole separare the frame pieces. There is a rivet line on the frame. Using a razor saw cut on the rivit line. This should result in two coupler box covers that are separate from the frame. Cement the two frame pieces together minus the "New" coupler box covers. Tap the hole in the frame for a 2-56 screw. Using a number 43 bit drill out the hole in the coupler box covers. Install the Kadee couplers and add the coupler box cover securing it with a 2-56 X 3/16th screw. This should secure the coupler and still allow access for service or repair of the couplers. Do Not glue the coupler box covers. 

[pastorbob]

You have been given some really good advice, so let me just make some general statements.  I have a three deck layout 28ft by 33 ft with a lot of track.  I also have way more freight cars than anyone needs or should have.  I have really slowed that down lately.  Every car and engine that runs on my layout has Kadee.  If it is not a Kadee when I buy it and open the box, it is after a little work.  My trackwork is not perfect, but I don't have problems that are the fault of coupling/uncoupling.

New equipment has any non Kadee couplers removed, there is a gallon jar under my workbench filled with plastic couplers, Kadees are installed, inspected, adjusted, etc on the test track at the workbench.

They then are given a yellow car card with a red slip in the bill pouch.  This tells me and the crews how long the car has been in service.  Any false couplings/uncouplings are noted on the slip.  When the car has been inservice for a period of time and no new enteries on the slip, it is removed and the car goes into full service.  Yeah, a lot of detail and work, but worth it.

Works for me.

Bob

[wholeman]

pastorbob

You have been given some really good advice, so let me just make some general statements.  I have a three deck layout 28ft by 33 ft with a lot of track.  I also have way more freight cars than anyone needs or should have.  I have really slowed that down lately.  Every car and engine that runs on my layout has Kadee.  If it is not a Kadee when I buy it and open the box, it is after a little work.  My trackwork is not perfect, but I don't have problems that are the fault of coupling/uncoupling.

New equipment has any non Kadee couplers removed, there is a gallon jar under my workbench filled with plastic couplers, Kadees are installed, inspected, adjusted, etc on the test track at the workbench.

They then are given a yellow car card with a red slip in the bill pouch.  This tells me and the crews how long the car has been in service.  Any false couplings/uncouplings are noted on the slip.  When the car has been inservice for a period of time and no new enteries on the slip, it is removed and the car goes into full service.  Yeah, a lot of detail and work, but worth it.

Works for me.

Bob

I like your system.  I will have to refer to that in the future.

[BIGLOUMAY]

pastorbob

You have been given some really good advice, so let me just make some general statements.  I have a three deck layout 28ft by 33 ft with a lot of track.  I also have way more freight cars than anyone needs or should have.  I have really slowed that down lately.  Every car and engine that runs on my layout has Kadee.  If it is not a Kadee when I buy it and open the box, it is after a little work.  My trackwork is not perfect, but I don't have problems that are the fault of coupling/uncoupling.

New equipment has any non Kadee couplers removed, there is a gallon jar under my workbench filled with plastic couplers, Kadees are installed, inspected, adjusted, etc on the test track at the workbench.

They then are given a yellow car card with a red slip in the bill pouch.  This tells me and the crews how long the car has been in service.  Any false couplings/uncouplings are noted on the slip.  When the car has been inservice for a period of time and no new enteries on the slip, it is removed and the car goes into full service.  Yeah, a lot of detail and work, but worth it.

Works for me.

Bob

A good use for all those plastic couplers is adding extra weight to your cars. Plus the trip pins make a fun 'scrap metal' load for your gondolas!