GraffenOne question: If you were a writer for a magazine, would you accept that the publisher wanted you to pay for the "privilege" to share your knowledge? ....
One question: If you were a writer for a magazine, would you accept that the publisher wanted you to pay for the "privilege" to share your knowledge?
....
I suspect magazines pay for finished articles or ones they feel they can edit into finished articles. While they want them factual of course, they mostly want them publishable and if necessary timely. It's like having a medical degree, no one pays you just because you have medical knowledge, they pay you to use that knowledge to diagnose and treat.
The online forums provide a place for people to share knowledge (and opinions, etc.) without doing anything with that knowledge. I'm not aware of any that pay members, because of their knowledge, to participate (although, as big as the internet is, there is probably one somewhere).
It's kind of like hanging out with each other with out being physically together and talking model railroading. Like any group we ask and answer questions, show off stuff we done, brag a little, and just kind of enjoy the experience. We "pay" for the place by having advertising, at the local bar you do it by buying a beer for more than the supermarket charges. Whether you want to pay for a place on the internet by subscription fees is up to you, but there are plenty of places where all you "pay" is getting some advertising. At least here all the advertising is for stuff I'm interested in. Some sites I go to, I pay by having to watch a soap commercial and I mean that literally - they run a video ad selling soap.
Enjoy
Paul
And I can´t see the similarities between a club and a Web-Forum. Being a member of a local MR club gives me the possibility to enjoy train-operations with others and real social interactions. Being a member of a national organisation gives me the benefits of a cool magazine and people that does their best to lobby for my interests. I don´t see neither in the Web Forums. They ARE however a great place to exchange quick info and to ask questions about stuff, even if the answers differs to the N´th degree .
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
It's not a hoax
From the forums there:
Hello everyone, There are some big changes coming to modeltrainsweathered.com If you just joined recently, you probably just made it in before the change over, which is that modeltrainsweathered.com is now going to be a Subscription Only Site. There is a lot of work and time, lots of time, that goes into maintaining this site, to make it look and feel the way it does. I have heard the request for seeing how something is actually done weathering wise, because it's hard to understand some of the techniques by just a photo, so this Fall I am wanting to bring Video to the front page with Tutorials,etc. All of this takes time and I'm excited about getting it going. I know times are tough for many right now, so as far as a Subscription Fee, I wanted to keep the price fair. $20.00 a YEAR is a little over 5 cents a day. That is Fair, but.......there are some that don't think so. So far, the response has been great! and mostly the ones that don't like it, have been ZERO posters over the last 6 Years. They have never contributed anything in 6 Years. But then on the flipside, maybe your just someone that has never posted anything in 6 years, but you have told others about the site, which is great promotion for mtw, so I thank you there. And another thing, is that there are many of you that are emailing me saying that $20 is too low because this place is a GOLDMINE of information, and it has helped them over the years. So go figure, $20 a Year is a Fair Deal. Like I have said in my mass email to most of you, and I'm still sending the emails out if you have not received it yet. modeltrainsweathered.com is "The World's Largest Network of Model Railroad" Weathering Enthusiast "Since 2004" Over the years your support and contributions have made this Forum a joy to be a part of. It has been a great place to learn, a place to make contacts, and even make some friends. The skills and know how that have gathered in this community have reached others all over the world, and have made all of us better people, and better modelers. Thank you for that. For those of you that want to know exactly what you have been a part of over the years, I have summarized below what it is to be a member and a part of this Forum. As a member, you have access... Access to the World's Largest Network of Model Railroad Weathering Enthusiast. Access to The Largest Variety of Weathering Tips, Techniques and Tricks, all in one Central Online Community. Access to Invaluable Networking Contacts that put Money in your Pocket, by doing Custom Work for Others, Selling Yourself and creating Comission Work. You can even Advertise your Ebay Auctions at no Charge on our Exclusive Ebay Approved Page. (Specific Rules Apply) "Many Forums Do Not Allow This" and... You can Showcase your Work, Improve your Skills through Detailed Critique, and build Recognition among some of the Hobbies Most Talented and Known Modelers. The Knowledge you have Access to Stretches Worldwide, and has been an ongoing Contribution by our Members for the Last 6 Years. The Subscription Rate is quite low and something that I believe to be fair. The rate is $20.00 per year which basically comes out to a little over 5 cents a day. To continue having Access to the Forum, let's say a year from now if you just join and were a part of the free entry, you don't have to do anything until a year from the date you joined. For Details on the Subscription, go to the Main MTW Home Page and Click on "FORUM REGISTRATION" This page has a Pay Pal Subscription Link near the bottom. Once again, I have a list of all the Members that have Joined, by date. So, if you received this as an email, it's because you Joined before August 1, 2008 I will be contacting people for renewel of the site as their date comes up. Thank you. Rich Divizio modeltrainsweathered.com
Springfield PA
I believe it is about niche as you define it. MTW does provide an exchange medium for those who pursue weathering to an art form in my opinion. The level of a lot of their body of work is not for everyone for whatever reason.
I have benifitted from MTW through learning new techniques and then applied the ones that fit my wants. I feel no frustration or guilt because gouache is still an unmastered skill. But $20 is an issue since I am not working and replacement jobs are as scare as 1:1 operable PAs in warbonnet.
Midnight Railroader Robt. LivingstonThe lack of topic-specific sub-forums leads not only to repetition, but impatience on the part of experienced writers, who get tired of answering the same questions or requests for advice over and over. Precisely.
Robt. LivingstonThe lack of topic-specific sub-forums leads not only to repetition, but impatience on the part of experienced writers, who get tired of answering the same questions or requests for advice over and over.
Precisely.
And since it has all been done before, archive the lot and turn the forum into a vast research library. No need to have a forum then.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Robt. LivingstonI think the Model Railroader site has heavy enough traffic to support several sub-forums. Weathering would be one of them.
Good Idea except for one obvious flaw. Both moderators here are quick to lock or shut down threads when they feel they've "run their course" or for friendly bantor they deem inappropriate. Too bad. This could have been a great forum but for them.
Robt. Livingston Leaving aside the situation at the fee-for-info site, I think the Model Railroader site has heavy enough traffic to support several sub-forums. Weathering would be one of them. The MR site suffers from topics slipping into oblivion, so newcomers have no idea what topics have already been covered. Yes, you can "search", but that isn't often done. The lack of topic-specific sub-forums leads not only to repetition, but impatience on the part of experienced writers, who get tired of answering the same questions or requests for advice over and over.
Leaving aside the situation at the fee-for-info site, I think the Model Railroader site has heavy enough traffic to support several sub-forums. Weathering would be one of them. The MR site suffers from topics slipping into oblivion, so newcomers have no idea what topics have already been covered. Yes, you can "search", but that isn't often done.
The lack of topic-specific sub-forums leads not only to repetition, but impatience on the part of experienced writers, who get tired of answering the same questions or requests for advice over and over.
Well said.
John
HanselI just went to the website this morning and there is an anoucement that says a hacker got into the website and sent out this erroneous email for the $20 fee. So it is a hoax!
I just went to the website this morning and there is an anoucement that says a hacker got into the website and sent out this erroneous email for the $20 fee. So it is a hoax!
Totally erroneous information Hansel. It is NOT a hoax.
Jerry MTW Moderator
Odd. I just this moment went to the websitee and clicked on registration. Large HUGE print "yearly subscription....... for only $20.00 a year."
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
The internet is filled with free "content" if you search it out. Charging $20 seems like a good way of keeping info and techniques to a few self-selected souls. I'm on several other hobby forums (mostly slot car related) and none of them cost me anything. Some of the most talented builders participate and show what they have done. They seem happy to explain it, too. But you do have some ads, which delay page loading and are ugly. The ads pay for the site, depending on how many "clicks" they get. I can't imagine clicking on any Google ads (the main sponsor) but some people do.
The internet is about free interchange of information. There are enough talented model builders willing to share their accumulated knowledge (for free) that I doubt we will be losing much if 5 regular posters decide to form a private club. There are enough free site hosting services that an entry fee seems self-defeating (or just clubbish).
I'm also glad to hear it was a hoax.
I disagree that this forum is average. At least among the forums I have visited, all free, this is the best. I belong to a few specialized groups on Yahoo, but they are not nearly as active, entertaining, or instructive as this one.
Each of us has to decide where and on what to spend money, but there is a Yahoo group for weathering that might satisfy your itch. There are also numerous articles on this site and others that cover the whole range of model railroading topics.
TMarshPackers#1Now if only there was a weatheirng sub-board here....... Out of the mouth of babes. (just a saying Sawyer. Not saying your a child. Even though to me you are pretty young) Good idea.
Packers#1Now if only there was a weatheirng sub-board here.......
Out of the mouth of babes. (just a saying Sawyer. Not saying your a child. Even though to me you are pretty young) Good idea.
Thanks man! hey, I'm 14, only 2 years being a teenager, lol. 7 years from legally beign an adult
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
spidgeI am willing to pay it but I am just bent that I cannot constitute spending that now. Maybe some other time. I did look forward to contributing and learning on MTW. I guess some of us will have to find another venue/site for weathering. Oh, wait isn't this site free.
I am willing to pay it but I am just bent that I cannot constitute spending that now. Maybe some other time.
I did look forward to contributing and learning on MTW. I guess some of us will have to find another venue/site for weathering. Oh, wait isn't this site free.
Now if only there was a weatheirng sub-board here.......
8500HPGASTURBINEAVERAGE MRR forums like this one really should be free, and I am thankfull they are. But for a TOP instructional forum like the weathering forum a $20.00 fee is fine.
There are several other model railroading forums with how-to content FAR above what the average modeler does...and they're free.
I am not going to pay $20 for info I can get elsewhere at no charge.
Hey, if they want to pay $20 a year great. That is way less than the cost of books and supplies to experiment with and there is a wealth of information to be gleened there. I wouldn't pay to be on a forum, especially that one, but if there are those that do, great.
Personally I see all the help I need right here. Many are frank with their critiques but not rude, insulting or just making it abundantly clear they are better than you. I've read the critiques and I've read the explanations as to the use of their verbage and tone. Hogwash.
Truthfully, and the fact is, there are plenty of people here that can accomplish the same results and will asist when asked without having to say "If you don't have a thick skin then it's your problem". They can pay their 20 dollars and cluck all they want. I have no problem.
The above in no way is meant to say all members of that forum are rude in fact many are not. Those that are and the tolerence of the administrators gives the entire Forum that feeling. Maybe that is the intention of the fees, to weed out some. Maybe it's to make it an exclusive place to go. Either way for that particular forum, I have no cares what they do with it. I do however wish it luck for the sake of those who choose to participate.
Driline kcole4001To do it right you need quite a few regular members, and have many of those regulars contribute, and not just banter, but real, concrete, article quality content. I count about 5 regular members last time I was allowed over there.
kcole4001To do it right you need quite a few regular members, and have many of those regulars contribute, and not just banter, but real, concrete, article quality content.
I count about 5 regular members last time I was allowed over there.
Did you feel special and privileged?I didn't bother with their attitude when it was free. Passamundo!
I say more power to him, I wasn't interested even when it was for "free" , nice stuff being produced no doubt, what it will do is weed out the watchers and keep the really serious waethering guys there. As far as the critiques being brutally honest etc , etc, after witnessing the behavoir over at the weathering thread here, I believe it's more about inflated ego's than trying to help people get better.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
From what I can see, this relates to the need for a new computer server to host, hosting fees and creating a more exclusive environment for people who take weathering seriously. It isn't for everyone, some people are simply not ''that'' interested in the advanced techniques developed and discussed in detail, nor are they that happy to have their work appraised very honestly.
I think US$20 is a very small amount, even with the exchange rate being unfavourable. It is a vast difference between MR charging for access to this site, a virtual self generating ad for their magazine, and a small operator trying to defray the costs of a service to a small community. It is also maybe that if you pay you have a greater degree of respect, you have something tangible to lose if you get too far out of line, unlike this site which even if you are banned from posting, you can still access.
I doubt 1800+ people will pay, but if enough do there may well be a profit available.... so what? I will pay and happily do so to remain, even though I post nothing at all. Watching my skills develop is worth every cent. If you do not place any value on that forum, don't pay, but being critical of it over $20 seems pathetic and whiny. It is less than lunch for 2 days.
As already posted, if one wants to really get serious about improving their weathering skills, then $20 is probably a good investment for an interactive source of expertise.
A good book on the subject will probably cost at least as much and contain less information.
I've seen it before, someone puts up an offshoot forum or board, but there is very little traffic, and so very little useful content, and as there's little content, it discourages traffic, which sticks with the 'big' boards. It's a tough cycle to break.
To do it right you need quite a few regular members, and have many of those regulars contribute, and not just banter, but real, concrete, article quality content. Then there are experts who will be necessary for ensuring that the content is indeed worth the time of people to search and browse through yet another board. Without them, a board is just a social site full of opinions, some good, some not so good.
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Charging for membership may just be a way of weeding out the newbs, indeed making an 'internet club' possible for those who feel the need. The exclusivity will be determined by the price of membership.
This may not be the case in this instance, it's just a thought.
It appears to me that the owner of the site may be moving the site to a business venture for professional weathering individuals to utilize for custom work. To make money, and thats OK. 1876 members, now thats $37,520 if everyone pays it, and he wants it by a certain date. I would think as mentioned before that the advertiser, which there are very few on the site, would balance any costs needed to run the site.
Great idea, but I am not paying for his new Porsche.
GraffenWell it´s nice that people are trying to make a buck here and there, BUT, if all Forums are going the route of paid subscriptions, I think they are in deep waters. If they already have advertisers, they don´t have to charge you for money, do they? I can pay for my REAL subscriptions, I.E. the real mags and so, but no way am I going to pay for things that should be free. If someone has the will there is free space on the Web to start a new free forum to compete with the paid ones. If that happens all info will be spread all over cyberspace and there is no way to get a clear overview. I just want to say: BAH! Humbug!! The MTW forum just lost one member!
Well it´s nice that people are trying to make a buck here and there, BUT, if all Forums are going the route of paid subscriptions, I think they are in deep waters. If they already have advertisers, they don´t have to charge you for money, do they? I can pay for my REAL subscriptions, I.E. the real mags and so, but no way am I going to pay for things that should be free. If someone has the will there is free space on the Web to start a new free forum to compete with the paid ones. If that happens all info will be spread all over cyberspace and there is no way to get a clear overview.
I just want to say: BAH! Humbug!!
The MTW forum just lost one member!
Exactly what I was getting on about earlier. Why the heck should people pay for online forums when there are plenty of other free forums. Shoot, I'd probably be the crazy guy to go start his own forum to compete w/ modeltrainsweathered