The day I give up my DT400 is the day they pry it from my cold....oh, okay, it has been done before. Well, it was a good saying, and applies to me in spades. I like buttons, even if they don't pertain to any train produced before about 1940. I don't have an interest in analogs to a real train throttle because I am not interested in anything more than enjoying my sound equipped steamers as if I were an observer somewhere near the tracks. If it takes a couple of presses and a knob twirl to get them underway, that's just marvy.
I had soundless engines years ago, and it just isn't the same fun for me unless they have a speaker and that tinny, staticky sound. Frankly, all the gear noise when they run quiet puts me off...I wonder if it is going to fail ere long.
-Crandell
Phoebe Vet I have 12 engines, 3 of them have sound. Experience shows that the sound engines get the most use. The only down side is that the granddaughters blow the horns and whistle almost constantly.
I have 12 engines, 3 of them have sound. Experience shows that the sound engines get the most use. The only down side is that the granddaughters blow the horns and whistle almost constantly.
Same here. My sound units get far more usage than the nonsound units. I'll often consist a couple of sound units with a nonsound unit, just so the nonsound unit gets some usage.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
I have 58 locomotives, 30 of them have sound. Everything new either comes from the factory with sound or I already have plans to add sound when I purchase it. The others I am slowly going back and adding sound. Finding room for the speaker is generally the #1 challenge. I personally like sound and feel it adds another level of realism. Is it the same as having your teeth rattle when you are standing 50' away from a Dash 9 as it roars by ? No. But compared to total quiet, except for the clicking of the wheels, I find it adds something. I am just realistic as to how much realism you can get from a 1" speaker.
Robt. LivingstonI'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with a gripe about the keypads.
Same here, the 32 buttons, endless wheel knobs, and small computer icon displays are all reasons I stayed with DC.
When I was seriously considering DCC, Easy DCC was the only wireless handheld that looked easy to use.
When I operate on friends Digitrax DCC layouts, I always try to get the UT4R!
Sheldon
I like my DT400 and I also like the UT4 that my 5 year old granddaughter uses so she can't get in trouble.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with a gripe about the keypads. When I was an industrial design student c. 1970, transistor throttles with acceleration and braking were the latest thing. A friend of mine took the TAT IV schematic from model Railroader, and built up a prototype model of a throttle using heavy, machined components. He used a rack and pinion gear to drive the speed control potentiometer, with a brass lever handle that resembled the throttle of a steam locomotive. It was an artful job, and the engineer felt like he was pulling the throttle of a real locomotive.
Robt. LivingstonAlso, the direct mechanical pleasure of operating an actually-mechanical loco bypasses the weird button-pushing and codes that are involved in digital control. Coding in commands on a keypad is NOT what steam or early diesel railroading was about. It just ain't natural!
Also, the direct mechanical pleasure of operating an actually-mechanical loco bypasses the weird button-pushing and codes that are involved in digital control. Coding in commands on a keypad is NOT what steam or early diesel railroading was about. It just ain't natural!
I agree with you on this point for sure. The way everything is crammed into a controller with a keypad is an incredibly tortuous experience. I would like to see better throttles. If there's any dcc throttle-makers out there that would like to discuss an idea for a new product, let me know.
When properly set volumes, i.e.: what you hear at a scale 1000 feet = what you hear on the prototype at 1000 feet., I find it makes me want to run everything prototypically, thus enhancing the enjoyment! I allow time for everything, from pumping up the air, standing brake test, to slowing to a crawl to allow the switchman to get off, throw a switch, and wave me through. Also having the proper whistle and bell signals adds to it all. We are after all modelling Railroading! John
I run heavy electrics, so the sound is built in to the mechanism. Humming and gear noise! Growing up along the tracks of the New Haven, and riding subways in NY, wheel, gear whine, and motor noise seems to be the main show. You don't need digital sound for that. The models are their own synthesizers, and it's analog, like the real ones. You can't beat that!
I grew up with American Flyer locos, and fell asleep many a night listening through the ducts to my father's S gauge engines chuffing away in the basement. So, sound is nothing new to me. I have watched and listened to many actual steam locos in 1:1 as well as live steam scales. Much of BLI's engine sound is superfluous, and couldn't be heard at the scale distances at which we watch our trains. Some obvious sounds which I've noticed when watching real steam, such as rod clank with the throttle closed, don't seem to be simulated at all.
Having run live steam engines, I do enjoy the sound, and one of the pleasures is the variation in exhaust as you hook up (reduce cutoff) as the engine gets to cruising speed. I listen for that in the BLI engines, but I can't hear it happening. Also, the direct mechanical pleasure of operating an actually-mechanical loco bypasses the weird button-pushing and codes that are involved in digital control. Coding in commands on a keypad is NOT what steam or early diesel railroading was about. It just ain't natural!
At speed, a steam locomotive's exhaust is more of a pulsing roar than a discrete chug chug chug, and my imagination seems capable of bridging the gap between the rumble and grinding of an old-school, all-metal model locomotive, and any attempts at simulating the actual sounds and playing them through a 1" speaker in the tender.
In spite of the above, I generally like the BLI steam locos for their sound, but I am already committed to a fleet of non-digital-sound engines, and I am not about to go spending a few more thousand dollars (and countless hours) re-vamping them with sound. The short half-life of digital technology also deters me. Sound systems from last year are obsolete next year. The year after, the off-train controls become non-backwards compatible (I think).
And one more thing: riding real steam locos and watching them from trackside, the exhaust sounds are dependent on the "scenery" for resonance, echoes, and all kinds of modulation. I don't hear any of that in digital sound. It has a dead quality.
Other than that, I like sound!
sound is good in moderation, to much sound can be very overwhelming but then again if you adjust all your sound locomotives then it isnt a problem unless of course you have that one operator that leaves the bell on
wedudler And you have to have the money for sound decoders.
Or get darn lucky and find the dang switchers with sound decoders already in them in a thrift store like I did for Pete sake
If not then-------
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
I like sound.
Running an engine with sound means running with your ears. It's fun with an diesel switcher, street running!
With a steam engine you run very slowly.
One secret is the volume! And you have to have the money for sound decoders.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
Some of my locomotives have sound and some don't. After hearing the sound equipped locomotives, the others "sound" as though they are missing something. It probably helps that S scale allows for larger speakers. I will be upgrading all them to sound as I have time and money to do it.
I suspect this is going to be like weathering, some like and some don't.
Enjoy
Paul
Hi!
I'm currently building an HO "replacement" layout and in the process converted to DCC. At this point I have 6 BLI Paragon locos (DCC w/Sound) with decoders, and will install them in my other locos when time/money are available.
I can say this without hesitation...... The BLI loco sounds bring a whole new dimension to my enthusiasm for model railroading. And, I know that installing sound in my other locos is going to happen - sooner or later.
That being said, there are times when the "noise" is just too much (especially in an 11x15 room), and I "F8" the locos involved. The addition of sound (at least in my experience) makes the start-up voltage significantly higher than non sound locos, although this can be adjusted. And lastly, sound costs money - about $100 or so a loco.
Anyway, all that being said, I suspect that when my trackage is all put down, I'll tend to run sound locos much more than non-sound locos.
For what its worth.........
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I like sound but all N-Scale sound--particularly diesel sound--always reminds me of hogs rooting in a bin full of aluminum cans. Unless it shows some improvement--and I really don't find that very promising--I'm not likely to ever get interested in it.
HO-Scale sounds a little better largely, when all is said and done I suppose, because its size allows for larger, higher impedance speakers. I toured an O-Scale layout in the St Louis area in 2001 and the sound was absolutely magnificent. Were I to go back to HO-Scale I might give serious consideration to sound; were I to come up with the space and money for O-Scale you'd better believe I'd have sound!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Question: "Is sound really popular?"
Answer: "It depends."
If you're judging by the pillows flying in the room at 4:00am and my wife and kids screaming "Turn off that alarm and get up already!" I'd have to say, "No", sound isn't really all that popular.
On the other hand, if its the sound of the doorbell signalling the arrival of my new Bachmann 2-8-2.... well, that's a different thing entirely...
I never used to care about sound on a layout. Until I *heard* sound on a layout-- listened to the locomotives growling along straining at the load. Listening to the diesels whine as they go up a grade. Or sitting on a siding a hearing the various hisses and ventilation noises and stuff- that's pretty cool. I also like the wheel-flange squeals and the coupler noises. Those are all very much fun. Oh yeah-- I almost forgot... there's blowing the whistle and ringing the bell.... I can always just say my kids like those (which is true)...
And now I look at all my locos expectantly-- "Well, whatcha waiting for? SAY something!!!" But alas, I've only got about eight or so that have sound decoders thus far. I do pair them with sound-challenged locos though and that helps a little.
Having heard sound, I don't ever want a layout *without* engine noises. However, that said, I don't really *like* the sound they make. Even the best ones are tinny and high-pitched with absolutely no bass. My wish is to leave the sound decoders in the locos but back it up with some external, under-the-layout sound system that can supply the bass ranges, which would be okay since bass frequencies are largely non-directional anyway.
As far as volume goes. Its fun to turn it all up now and then, but after awhile that gets a little old-- listening to all those locos rumbling gets a little old too.
Another thing I wish is that the sound modules were a little better insulated from the vagaries of electrical pickup. Its annoying when a loco takes a bump or crosses a turnout the wrong way and the sound decoder cuts out, or else restarts and you have to listen to the loco go through its start-up sequence and whatever initial throttle position its set for-- all while visually watching the loco chug along obliviously at the same pace the whole time. Its rather incongruous to be certain!
But all in all, I'd rather have sound than not. I'm in the process of retrofitting some steam. That's going to be fun.
For me, sound is the dimension in model railroading, which had been missing for so long. And that does not only go for engine sounds. But like with animated accessories on a layout, sound features can easily be overdone and turn into a nuisance. On a multi-train layout, the sound of a number of locos operating simultaneously would probably too much for my ears! A single loco, operated at slow speed - wow, that´s it!
Edit:
See my avatar? That Bowser F-7a has a Tsunami decoder with a quality speaker installed - the sound is just fantastic!
Margaritaman Texas Zepher I am surprised a PFM isn't already pre-drilled and cammed for sound from the factory. I should be so lucky. Just say "early run" or "original run," or whatever it's called. I love that silly loco. It makes plenty of sound on its own, just not steam sound. Sounds like a 16 year old learning to drive a stick on a Model T!
Texas Zepher I am surprised a PFM isn't already pre-drilled and cammed for sound from the factory.
I should be so lucky. Just say "early run" or "original run," or whatever it's called. I love that silly loco. It makes plenty of sound on its own, just not steam sound. Sounds like a 16 year old learning to drive a stick on a Model T!
I've got a couple of brass lokies just like that--they've been running forever and well, and whenever anyone asks me what the sound is, I just grin and say, "It's grinding coffee."
Gives them 'Character', I say! Besides, I always know where they are on my hidden track.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Texas Zepher twhiteWell, after thinking about it, there is one sound that makes me kinda/sorta grin and chuckle, and that's the cattle in the BLI 'sound' cattle car. When I first saw those I thought how silly and toy like. But I found a sale of them and purchased one for a friend. We had so much fun with that car that I went back and got a fleet of them. They are a big hit where ever I take them.
twhiteWell, after thinking about it, there is one sound that makes me kinda/sorta grin and chuckle, and that's the cattle in the BLI 'sound' cattle car.
Texas:
You know, it's pretty neat coming across something like that--a well-detailed model with a kinda/sorta 'unexpected' surprise. It reminds me that the hobby is not only fascinating, but can be done with a sense of humor, also.
It's a big hit on the layout when I run it for friends, whether they're fellow modelers or not. It pretty much relaxes the atmosphere, and that's not a Bad Thing at all, LOL!
mikebonellisr I have sound in most of my engines,either Tsunami or QSI.Being I usually run only one or two at a time I don't find it distracting.All other engines are put into mute or the track section they are on is not powered.To my way of thinking it's like watching color TV as opposed to watching black & white.I enjoy the sound equiped steam and diesels.
I have sound in most of my engines,either Tsunami or QSI.Being I usually run only one or two at a time I don't find it distracting.All other engines are put into mute or the track section they are on is not powered.To my way of thinking it's like watching color TV as opposed to watching black & white.I enjoy the sound equiped steam and diesels.
Dito...er, ditto, and precisely. Who is to say, though, since we don't know the sales volume figures for Atlas Gold, for the P2K Heritage with Sound, Paragons I & II, and so on? I would, if pressed, guess that less than 1/3 of all engines sold have even a motive decoder. Still, I wouldn't be without one...sound, that is.
San Dimas Southern slideshow
I turn the sound on for visitors, but I hardly ever use it when I am running trains by myself. It was neat at first, but it got to be distracting after a few days. Very low item on my list of needs/wants.
MargaritamanI'm in the process of converting one of my brass units .... Currently a PFM/United Sierra 2-6-6-2 with a can motor/gears and micro-tsunami.
I'm so hooked on sound that I'm in the process of converting one of my brass units and if that goes well I have another half dozen I'll tackle. Currently a PFM/United Sierra 2-6-6-2 with a can motor/gears and micro-tsunami. If I'm gonna take it all apart, I might as well tear it all apart! Keep your fingers crossed!
Well, after thinking about it, there is one sound that makes me kinda/sorta grin and chuckle, and that's the cattle in the BLI 'sound' cattle car. I've got a Rio Grande one, and since I do seasonal cattle movements on the Yuba River Sub ('seasonal' being about once or twice a week, LOL!), I really enjoy hooking that car to the head of my little cattle train and watching my little 2-6-6-0 chug from my low altitude terminal to the high altitude pasturage with those cattle sounds letting me know that this is NOT the most comfortable ride in the world.
Brings back neat memories, it does, by golly!
don7Who else has tried sound and found it not totally to their liking? Perhaps as the quality of sound improves I may give it another try sometime in the future.
Of course, I am not satisfied with the primitive speakers and baffle systems that come from the manufactures. I've spent years working on my own chambered and multi-speaker systems. This one has over 12" inches of internal channeling. My goal is the equivalent of 15" where I found a harmonic sweet spot for the prime mover sounds. The issue is that the more internal channeling there is the less the volume of the chamber. A trade off in sound quality that works in small margins for things of this tiny size. As others have said, most people run them entirely too loud which further reduces the quality.
I prefer HO steam with sound rather than without. I think BLI has done a fine job of capturing the sounds of the big steamers, their diesels and electrics are very nice as well. The J1 and T1 just wouldn't be the same without BLI's state of the art sound system. I am equally as impressed with their e7,e8, and gg1.
I grew up with athearn f7 units so diesels running in HO without sound are ok and I have just as much fun running them. The important thing is that all trains in one operating session are equal, meaning they either all have sound when running at the same time, or not at all. Its about keeping a balance, otherwise things can appear odd.
If I were modeling in n scale, I would prefer to run both diesel and steam without sound however, IMHO once you go that small, I think the sound just becomes a noisy distraction to my ears and takes away from the 'railroading in miniature' experience...thats just for me of course, not trying to knock others that love their n scale big boys with sound.
I agree with other posters that the larger scales are better suited for sound on board. O gauge engines would seem to be missing something without sound effects, I have tried running them in silent mode, and it just doesn't seem right.
One thing in particular that I don't care for in any scale is the crew chatter (although an exception being Athearn's classic Big Boy 'Aboard!!!" call which I find absolutely delightful). I find MTH's and BLI paragon 2 crew chatter, farm noises, etc. to be extremely annoying.
Btw, sometimes its really fun to turn off all your engines sounds in HO so you can hear the clickity clack of your rolling stock across the track.
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