I was wondering what is your average length for your freight trains? I personally like to run about twelve cars long since I currently don't have a layout. I've heard some people at train shows say they want to run prototypical scaled mile-long trains. That's well over 700 feet long! in HO scale. To me, a large layout should have trains at least 40 cars long.
Thanks.
Will
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
My Yuba River Sub is a relatively generous (24'x24') HO garage layout, but I usually keep my mainline freights to about 25 or 30 cars. I could run longer, but with the scenery 'breaks' I have (tunnels, cuts, bridges, etc.) the trains actually look longer.
Works for me.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
For iron ore trains, I found 24 cars (I operate them in 'mini-quad' groups of four) to be about the minimum that seemed even remotely realistic. 32 or more looks much better. Beyond that it gets hard for yard tracks and staging. For general freight, right now my switching layout (1st phase of a new larger layout) uses 8 cars at a time, on the old layout I could run one freight of about 12-14 cars or so, but I found I liked it better to run two separate trains of 6-8 cars each.
BTW I believe a scale-mile long train in HO would be 60', not 700+.
12 cars maximum. 4 or 5 look best on my 11x7 shelf layout.
wholemanI personally like to run about twelve cars long since I currently don't have a layout.
This begs the question, if you don't have a layout how can you run any cars at all?
wholeman I was wondering what is your average length for your freight trains? I personally like to run about twelve cars long since I currently don't have a layout. ... To me, a large layout should have trains at least 40 cars long.
I was wondering what is your average length for your freight trains? I personally like to run about twelve cars long since I currently don't have a layout. ... To me, a large layout should have trains at least 40 cars long.
Why do you like to run trains twelve cars long when you think trains should be at least 40 cars long? I wouldn't think a non-existing layout restricts the preferred number of cars in a train.
Mark
markpierce wholeman I was wondering what is your average length for your freight trains? I personally like to run about twelve cars long since I currently don't have a layout. ... To me, a large layout should have trains at least 40 cars long. Why do you like to run trains twelve cars long when you think trains should be at least 40 cars long? I wouldn't think a non-existing layout restricts the preferred number of cars in a train. Mark
Good point. I wasn't thinking clearly when I posted the original question. I don't have the space for a permanent layout or enough room to run a 40 car HO train in my living room. I need a bigger place.
8500HPGASTURBINE Usually between 70-90 cars. But if it's a 89' Enclosed Auto rack it's about 60. I run big trains with lots of muscle up front. Mike
Usually between 70-90 cars. But if it's a 89' Enclosed Auto rack it's about 60. I run big trains with lots of muscle up front.
Mike
That must be nice to run such long trains. If you are modeling HO, how big is your layout?
wjstixBTW I believe a scale-mile long train in HO would be 60', not 700+.
My mistake. I guess I figured the calculation wrong. I took 5,280 feet X 12 inches to get 63,360 inches. I then took that divided by 87 to a ballpark figure of 700 feet roughly.
I figured out to take 5,280 feet divided by 87 to get 60. Thanks for the correction.
I prefer to run short trains. If I'm running road engines I usually run two locos, four cars and a caboose on my very small HO layout at home. On the club's HO and N scale layouts I'll run two locos, six cars, and a caboose.
I usually run 6-8 cars but the maximum for my sidings are 10 cars.
I have three trains on the layout at this time. The longest is 25 units pulled by 2 SDP40F's and a GP40 midtrain helper, next is 18 units pulled by 2 GP38-2's and the shortest is 10 units pulled by 2 GP40's.
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Manifest trains run 25 cars, coal 28 cars and the Detroit Edison coal train is 30 cars (so I could include mid train helpers). Here is a short video of a couple of them climbing The Loops (open spiral helix) between the two decks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqGZzdJNPNk
Train length determines length of passing sidings on single track, so it comes into play. Passing sidings on mine are 17 1/2' with a minimum of 35 feet between each.
See ya.
Larry
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I have a 12x8 layout, and most of the time its 8-10 cars. From 2-bay hoppers, to boxcars. The most ever pulled was 14 cars. I only have a small Cotton Belt "geep". Now once I can get more money coming in, I hope to expand the layout out.
Seems like I like to sell off my cars/engines .
"Rust, whats not to love?"
On the layout I'm helping build for a disabled child we can run up to 30 grain hoppers with 2 RS11's at the point. The smaller mixed freights tend toward 12-15 with 1 or 2 engines at the point.
On my own--right now the grain manifests run around 15 hoppers or grainboxes while the local mixed freights run about 6-10 pieces. All with 1 or 2 engines at the point
I'm still building out on mine---
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The sidings and staging tracks on my layout limit me to about 15-18 cars, but I'm working on fixing that so I can run at least 20. The way I have my scenery cut up, a 20 car train gives plenty of illusion of being longer.
When I get the itch, I can run 50+, but there's nowhere to park it!
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
This poses the eternal question, a model layout is NOT a scale model of actual surroundings, that is, the trains and buildings may be to scale, but the distances are definitely not to scale, otherwise your layout would have to be 800 feet long, distances between houses, buildings, stations is not possible on a small layout. So presumably you should scale back the length of the train, to put a 40 car train on a reduced layout and having the caboose in one town and the engine in another when in actuality the distance is 26 miles, does not reach prototype scale. BUT who has the space to come close to actual distances.
So it seems everything is prototypical in scale except the actual layout itself, has anyone ever taken this factor in construction of a layout? I think this factor can be related to train speed also, measure a distance on a layout and and see how long it takes for a boxcar to go by a certain spot, now see how long it takes a real boxcar to go by a spot on a railway, it will be much faster than scale speed. I believe this is why model trains seem to go so slow on the layout unless you are reducing the speed to the reduced distance of the layout. I'm sure there are exact formulae for these conversions but they may not convert properly to a model railroad layout.
This begs another question -
With these long trains - how many towns is the train in at one time (is the engine chasing the caboose)?
Like what was stated above the layout must be really large to get 2 or 3 train lengths between towns.
And doing switching (block drops or individual cars) must be real fun if it is in more than one town at a time (you could do your whole train switching at one time ;-)
Bob H - Clarion, PA
50 car freights (maximum), 25 car freights, 1 car freights. It depends on whether we are looking at a staging-to-staging run-through, or a local peddler move.
The time/scale/distance equation can be answered many ways. I use scale speed based on a real-time stopwatch, and how much 1/87 distance a loco travels in a given number of seconds. I consider that the best simulation of scale speed. Through freights move at about 40 mph, passenger trains at 60 or more. However, I do not try to cram the operations of an entire railroad or division (or subdivision) into my layout, so I don't have to worry about concepts of "scale" time or fast clocks, or time tables, which destroy the illusion for me. I would be more interested in time tables on an outdoor railroad, with thousands of feet of main line; but I am more interested in being the engineer than the conductor or brakeman (and I DO NOT want to be the dispatcher or the yard clerk).
On my 4X10 oval--12 coal cars or 7 box/condolas
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ME&O
I usually run about 50-60 cars around the basement sized museum quality layout that I have. Oops sorry, I must have been dreaming. Usually about 10-12 cars (HO) is as large as I go. Anything more and, in my opinion, it's just too large for my layout. Smaller trains make me feel as if the layout is bigger, or should I say the distance the train travels seems longer.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
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I have three main lines, the A line normally has 25 to 30 foot train, mainly 50 box cars and pulled by 4 F-3's or my Big Boy. B line hauls about 25 cars, its passing spur is all so a commercial siding. C line is the short line that hauls coal cars to K-10 mining. 25 3 bay coal cars is about the max I run on it.
Bench is G shaped 19 X 13 X 9.5 feet.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Simply put: length of any train = length of passing siding available on layout. You can't go wrong with that formula.
kcole4001 Simply put: length of any train = length of passing siding available on layout. You can't go wrong with that formula.
Too simplistic....Previous posters have made valid points which I won't repeat.
One factor left out of this discussion is the scale of the models. Most people perceive that a train is long when it more than fills one's field of vision. Also, car lengths in the smaller scales are shorter than in larger scales, so more cars are needed, for example, in an N-scale train than in HO-scale. Thus, an N-scale layout requires more to satisfy one's wish for long-looking trains. Another way of looking at it is that, from a want-a-long-train perspective, an N-scale layout of the same plan (taking about one-fourth the space) will be less satisying than its HO-scale layout equivalent. So, while a 20-25 car train might seem long to one in HO, a 40-50 car train would be needed for one modeling in N. (Please, no remarks from the must-be-a-mile-long-train people.)
Some people have thought about your question on how to "scale" the layout size. One concept that used to be used often, but isn't as discussed now days, is the "smile" to measure distance. The "smile" was determined by the ratio of the fast time clock to the lenght of a scale mile in whatever scale you were in. For example, in HO a scale mile is about 60 feet so using a 12:1 fast clock creates a "smile" of five feet. Now two towns 20 feet apart became four "smiles" for the timetable.
For me, I like trains of about 15 cars and two locomotives visually, but my current layout space only allows about five cars and one loco. By modeling a branch, the length is at least realistic.
wholemanI was wondering what is your average length for your freight trains? I personally like to run about twelve cars long since I currently don't have a layout. I've heard some people at train shows say they want to run prototypical scaled mile-long trains. That's well over 700 feet long! in HO scale. To me, a large layout should have trains at least 40 cars long. Thanks.
My layout is being designed for locals consisting of 8-12 cars; through freights of about 25-35 cars; and long coal drags of 35+ cars (perhaps 35-50 cars). I don't plan for the long coal drags to stop or be switched. They will just run through so will only require a passing track long enough to handle them. The yards will be built to handle the locals and through freights.
Good point about the field of view, Mark.
I see the determining factors (given the same scale) as being:
1) era to be modelled
2) size of room available
3) space for layout in said room, which determines:
4) length of siding areas available on layout
5) mainline or branch line representation
I chose to modify No.1 and No.5 to fit with No.2 and No.3. Short trains work better in smaller rooms.
Switching scale from HO to N changes the equation completely, obviously.
I still wouldn't run trains longer than the longest passing siding, but that's just me.
Of course, there could be the situation where a trains from staging A travels to a median point, drops a cut or two of cars, then travels to yard B, while other trains will distribute the cars to their respective destinations.
Then the limiting factor would be the yard capacity.
In magazine articles we've seen layouts designed to viewed as separate scenes. This can be very effective, and trains don't need to be as long as to be percieved as realistically lengthy.
My point is that one should design the layout with desired train length and operation style in mind from the outset to get maximum enjoyment out of it. All of these factors affect each other to varying degrees.
kcole4001 I still wouldn't run trains longer than the longest passing siding, but that's just me.
Yeah, frequent saw-by maneuvers allowing trains longer than the sidings to pass each other can get old. Still, if one avoids meets where both trains exceed siding length, longer trains can be accommodated easily if train orders give extra-long trains superiority and all normal-size trains taking the siding.