Robt. Livingston In this entire discussion, not a single scale dimension has been mentioned. Since "scale" is determined by dimensions, not impressions, I guess this discussion will go on forever, around and around in circles, until someone whips out the 1/87 scale ruler, and looks up the actual dimensions of the real cars and trucks chosen by Matchbox.
In this entire discussion, not a single scale dimension has been mentioned. Since "scale" is determined by dimensions, not impressions, I guess this discussion will go on forever, around and around in circles, until someone whips out the 1/87 scale ruler, and looks up the actual dimensions of the real cars and trucks chosen by Matchbox.
I just did that with two vehicles a porchse cayman 14' and lincoln navigator 18'. You can get lengths from specification section on new car sites. I actually have three porsche caymen: one by model power 1;87 , one by hotwheels "1:87" and regular hot wheels cayman they are different sizes I need to compare the sizes with a herpa or brawa model. My Theory is that I think that some 1:87 vehicles are not exactly 1:87. We will see what scale the Hot wheels lincoln navigator is?
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You better know what the exact prototype dimensions are/were for the vehicles then. Some people don't quite know those either-----get a list made up of what you have/are using and check up on the prototypes----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
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I dont think matchbox or hotwheels have a scale. Its what ever can fit into the box. the smaller cars are definately not 1:87 but some of the large vehicles are very close for example ambulances, trash trucks, tractor trailors and some vans look in the photos below Can you tell which ones are 1:87 and matchbox.
Now, wait - Driline, I have seen two cars I have long been missing ... YOU GOT ´EM!
It´s the ambulance right in the mioddle of the picture and the green little Austin in the lower right of it. Must have been more than 45 years since I got them...
mononguy63Wow, Driline, it looks like you stole all of the Matchbox cars I played with as a kid! No, wait a minute, I still have mine. A lot of them are not quite so pristine as yours, though. I can identify about 70% of those - it's a little spooky actually. My version of the Italian sports car bottom shelf center front has somehow found its way into my 3-year-old son's Hotwheels pile.
One word. EBAY. My cars that I played with as a kid in the late 60's, early 70's were trashed by the time I was done playing with them in the dirt under the mulberry tree.
I collected all 75 of them from the year 1968 as well as others.
Midnight Railroader PathfinderFor those saying "don't do it!", what would be better: a layout with minimal but "proper" scale vehicles or a layout that is populated with vehicles even if they are off a bit? The former. I'll add cars and truck as I can afford them.
PathfinderFor those saying "don't do it!", what would be better: a layout with minimal but "proper" scale vehicles or a layout that is populated with vehicles even if they are off a bit?
The former. I'll add cars and truck as I can afford them.
The area that I model is not so populated with people that I need gazillions of vehicles. On one small townsite--3 cars and one grain truck. On a country road-----nada.
Driline
Wow, Driline, it looks like you stole all of the Matchbox cars I played with as a kid! No, wait a minute, I still have mine. A lot of them are not quite so pristine as yours, though. I can identify about 70% of those - it's a little spooky actually. My version of the Italian sports car bottom shelf center front has somehow found its way into my 3-year-old son's Hotwheels pile.
There was an older line of probably stamped-metal cars made by Tootsie Toy, of which I still have a few. I've kept them in my junk box because a number of them look very close to HO scale and could be made quite presentable with a little TLC.
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
The only problem that I can see is when the modeler gets home from wally world and rips open the blister pack and plops what very oviously is a toy vehicle on the layout.
By the way the Dodge tow truck on the corner (green and yellow) is very close to HO as is the Ford tow truck.There are also several Chevy trucks on the shelves that are HO or dang close.
When I first got into Model Railroading it was back in the early 60s. I first got into H.O. scale it was like in 65 or 66 and there wasnt awhole lot of "Scale" vehicles around. So out came the Matchboxes with the grey plastic wheels. Now some people will throw up to find the older MBs on someones layout,but that was all that we had! Some of the older stuff dont look too bad! Now it just gripes my apple when ya throw a MB Yeasteryear along side a regular Matchbox. There ya will get a size difference. The Yeasteryears were always larger than the regular Matchbox size. Then came the SuperFast wheels into the Regular Matchbox size. I think that the Superfast Matchboxes were brought out in the late 60s to compete with the "New" Hot Wheels.
The Hot Wheels were all pertty close in size in general, but a little bigger than H.O. I find that some of the construction equipment will do until their is a good model out on the market.
But for if it is close to 1:87th scale and that there isnt a model out of it. It probabaly would get used on the layout.
Look at some of the so called "scale" models of vehicles out there on the market! Some will do and others wont! I would take a H.O. scale figure" a good one" and "not a cheap one" to compare it to a car or a truck that I want to use. This is my .02 cents. Lets hear it! Kevin
When I had a layout I used matchbox cars whose scale was between 1:80 and 1:95. I also had a few tractor-trailers that I got from dollar general. Turns out they are pretty close to an athearn big rig I have.
I do have a bunch of those $1 ones from wally world, mostly older cars. I did get 4 newer cars, but they were part of 5-packs.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
Flashwave DrilineI see that and they look plastic to me Yes, but so do the HO people
DrilineI see that and they look plastic to me
Yes, but so do the HO people
No no. I meant that in a GOOD way. Although I have purchased quite a few of the GH metal casting HO work trailers and bobcat, and I must say they look fantastic after painting and weathering.
I was recently at the Galesburg train show admiring a beautiful HO modular layout that was finely detailed, until I came upon one 4' section built by some bloke that included an earth moving equipment scene. It was littered with Matchbox dump trucks and other equipment and looked waaaayyy out of place and toylike. Ruined the whole layout.
Guys,
Think of this.
Today we have the best detailed locomotives and cars,the best scenery material,the best structures and the best looking figures that has ever been produce..
Why use oversize toy cars?
There is a better solution.
Use the higher quality cars and trucks in the foreground and use the cheaper Bachman cars in the background.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/160-42206
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
-Morgan
Robt. LivingstonA few of the vehicles shown in the photo in the preceding post are 1/87. For example, the #26 dump truck with GMC tilt cab in the right rear (red cab, aluminum body), the #70 grit spreader truck (light yellow body, dark red cab), and the #44 refrigerator truck (aqua body and red-orange cab). There are several more in 1/87, but most of the models shown are larger, a few smaller.
A few of the vehicles shown in the photo in the preceding post are 1/87. For example, the #26 dump truck with GMC tilt cab in the right rear (red cab, aluminum body), the #70 grit spreader truck (light yellow body, dark red cab), and the #44 refrigerator truck (aqua body and red-orange cab). There are several more in 1/87, but most of the models shown are larger, a few smaller.
I see that and they look plastic to me. I can tell because the detail is finer. Now I think they look alright. But that green metal truck with the roof paint gone and with no windows and axles that stick out a scale 2' just plain looks bad.
RedGrey62The older (1960's) had cars that were very close to HO scale, as someone pointed out, they originally had to fit a matchbox, presumebly because the kids could only bring a toy that size or smaller in the English schools (trivia for today).
I collect the 1960's era of Lesney "matchbox" cars. They are not close to HO scale. And here's my display case to prove it.
Again, they are great to play with under the tree in the front yard, but look out of place on an HO layout. Even if they were in scale they would still look "toyish" because they dont have the fine exquisite details that plastic cars are capable of.
If you want that "toy look" then by all means use matchbox. But for those who prefer true scale fine modeling......well they just won't do.
When I was about 8 years old, my folks and I were shopping for my first train set. I had a choice between Lionel and a Tyco HO set. I chose the HO scale because it was "kinda" close to fitting with my Matchbox and Hot Wheel cars.
Now several decades later, would I buy a Hot Wheel or Matchbox car for my layout? No. But I certainly welcome my 9 year old son to bring his Hot Wheels into the train room to play with.
Hotwheels does offer a line of 1/87 HO scale cars, they are pretty much their fantasy cars but they are to scale none the less. There are also 1/87 NASCAR cars, not much use to a 60's modeller like myself, but if you're modelling one of the race tracks that has NS running by it (and there are a couple) or if you want to have a display where the NASCAR team shows up to the local grocery store, auto parts store, state fair etc, they would work.
Matchbox is another story. The older (1960's) had cars that were very close to HO scale, as someone pointed out, they originally had to fit a matchbox, presumebly because the kids could only bring a toy that size or smaller in the English schools (trivia for today). There was a site that had the history and along with it, the approximate sizes of the various vehicles. I found it thru a Google search but unfortuantely didn't bookmark it as the chance of actually finding any of the right size ones would probably be cost prohibitive because of their collector's value.
Ricky
I know my comparison was drastic, but unfortunatley you do get modelers who will use these types of vehicles as well. The problem isn't only scale. Its the "fine" details that are included in most true plastic HO scale vehicles. The matchbox vehicles are just large blocks of metal with few details.
I'd rather have 5 quality HO scale vehicles as opposed to 50 oversized toylike monstrosities anyday. I've paid as much as $25 for a pair of vehicles with trailer. Although most of my cars are in the 9 to 12 dollar range.
Hmmmmm..... Matchbox or true 1/87 HO scale. You Decide.
Matchbox
True 1/87 HO Scale
Constructive placement can enhance forced perspectives. In the right place, no one complains about an obviously n scale building placed in the background to give the illusion of greater distance to the background building. A slightly oversized vehicle could be placed in the foreground to create much the same illussion. Vehicle with slight inconsistencies (such as the afore-mentioned HotWheels Mustang with the grossly oversized rear wheel well) can be staged so that another vehicle or a building conceals the offending part. Creativity and common sense can make some out of scale vehicles work in many scenes. Besides, the real eye catchers are supposed to be the trains, the surrounding scenery is supposed to enhance the train's realism.
I once caught a train in my pajama's. How it got in my pajama's I'll never know... (sorry, Groucho)
Midnight Railroader Autobus Prime For $10 I'd rather have another boxcar or track switch, instead of a set piece that doesn't really do anything. I'm not a model-car hobbyist! Are you a model structure hobbyist?A model tree hobbyist? Automobiles are just as important as any other part of the layout--like trees or structures--in helping to cerate a realistic scene. I'm not about to devote the time to handlaying track, kitbashing structures, and superdetailing locomotives only to place toy-looking cars and trucks around them just because they're cheaper.
Autobus Prime For $10 I'd rather have another boxcar or track switch, instead of a set piece that doesn't really do anything. I'm not a model-car hobbyist!
Are you a model structure hobbyist?A model tree hobbyist?
Automobiles are just as important as any other part of the layout--like trees or structures--in helping to cerate a realistic scene. I'm not about to devote the time to handlaying track, kitbashing structures, and superdetailing locomotives only to place toy-looking cars and trucks around them just because they're cheaper.
MR:
In fact, I am a model structure hobbyist. I like building 'em. But usually you need more autos than structures, and even at that I don't spend a whole lot of scratch - I can build a good-sized building for five bucks, and in the meantime I use fillers, too, like printed buildings (homemade or copied from ancient RMC's), to stand by until I can get together time or money for better ones.
I don't spend a whole lot on trees, either. Most of mine are trimmed and ground-foamed dime-store trees, or cut-up garland treated likewise. I'm going to try Aggrojones' furnace-filter method one of these days, since I found a place that sells the filters.
Lots of fun, not much scratch, that's what I'm trying to accomplish here. I could be spending all my time griping about expense, instead, but I don't think anybody wants that. :D
A couple of HO scale vehicles, some converted from beat-up Matchbox toys. MB tow truck upper left, MB Removals Van (in NYO&W Express Delivery livery). Derelict MB snowplow/dump trucks parked in the back rank where they belong:
Jordan Mack Bulldog westbound, Ulrich Mack eastbound:
Converted Viking WWII German Army trucks, now in civilian service in Brooklyn; Hanomag on left, Opel Blitz on right:
Re-wheeled Matchbox Trojan van ahead of Matchbox tractor, clear windshields cut out and glued in. At the loading dock, a MB Yesteryear AEC sits beside a re-bodied MB trash truck:
TA462 Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars are all S scale which is 1/64. They are no where near being close to HO scale. I don't understand why people use them on their HO scale layouts.
Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars are all S scale which is 1/64. They are no where near being close to HO scale. I don't understand why people use them on their HO scale layouts.
But they aren't all 1/64. Tell me the bus is 1:64 really. It belongs between HO and N. And the Go-Kart, seat is HO. the cart itself is too big, but the seat is HO.
For those saying "don't do it!", what would be better: a layout with minimal but "proper" scale vehicles or a layout that is populated with vehicles even if they are off a bit?
I would rather see a layout with vehicles than without and what Kevin has done above fits right in. We can not all afford to go out and buy HO scale vehicles to make the scenes look right all at once, it will take time and using Matchbox/Hot Wheels as stand-ins makes sense to me.
Those WalMart vehicles have not been available here for quite some time and when they were, it was a limited selection, so they are not the great saving that some might make out. I do what I can with what I have and as with the rest of the stuff, I will replace the real bad offenders over time as resources permit.
For me, it's a matter of if they look okay. I do have some Matchbox and Hot Wheels vehicles for on my layout but only for until decent models of those vehicles come out. Back when I had my old layout, I couldn't afford to buy models of ambulances that I'd seen, and models of fire trucks and rescue squads that I wanted weren't available. So, I raided my boxes of diecast vehicles and went with Matchbox ambulances and Hot Wheels fire trucks and rescue squads. I've done some detailing/touching up on them since the photo below was taken, and they look decent to me. On one fire truck and rescue squad, I even modified the numbers to #51 (anybody know where I came up with that number?).
Basically, if a good or affordable model of a vehicle I want is available, I'll get it. But if not and I see a decent diecast vehicle that I can tweak to work for the time, I'll go with that.
Kevin
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Robt. LivingstonRecently, there has been an onslaught of plastic German-made (unless they are Chinese), current era cars in Walmart, which appear to be true HO. Detail and contours are fine. Prices are low.