This is not going to be very welcome news for many of you, but BLI has the Q2 listed for delivery late this year! That was the 4-4-6-4 Duplex which was the most powerful non-articulated steamer ever produced. First they announce that they will make the UP 9000 series 4-12-2 engines, and now this!?
I guess I'll have to start flippin' burgers.
-Crandell
But where are the switchers?
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
How come we never hear of such engines in N scale?Sure would save to get one....well...I'll keep on dreaming....for a long long time I guess.
blownout cylinder But where are the switchers?
Probably where the clowns are.
Substitute "switcher" for "clowns" in http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/alittlenightmusic/sendintheclowns.htm and you'll see what I mean.
Or Moguls, Harriman Mikes and Pacifics, or maybe NC&StL J-3's ("Yellowjackets" or "Stripes") or what have you.
Andre
Barry,How many switchers do you want? Proto 2000 already has made several runs of 0-8-0's & 0-6-0's. Spectrum has decent 0-6-0T's, and Mantua has 0-6-0T's and 0-6-0 Camelbacks. What's the problem?
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
As long as we keep buying them, they will keep making them. Who can't resist the look of a large steam loco? I suspect most of them will end up on a shelf unused.
Would I buy one? I doubt it. No room to run it (unless I put that 2 track "display loop" around the outside walls of my layout room).
Paul3 Barry,How many switchers do you want? Proto 2000 already has made several runs of 0-8-0's & 0-6-0's. Spectrum has decent 0-6-0T's, and Mantua has 0-6-0T's and 0-6-0 Camelbacks. What's the problem? Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
All kinds----look. If large loco collectors can have their fun---eccentrics like moi should be allowed ours!!
So there-----HHAAAARRRUUUMPH
selector This is not going to be very welcome news for many of you, but BLI has the Q2 listed for delivery late this year! That was the 4-4-6-4 Duplex which was the most powerful non-articulated steamer every produced. First they announce that they will make the UP 9000 series 4-12-2 engines, and now this!?
This is not going to be very welcome news for many of you, but BLI has the Q2 listed for delivery late this year! That was the 4-4-6-4 Duplex which was the most powerful non-articulated steamer every produced. First they announce that they will make the UP 9000 series 4-12-2 engines, and now this!?
Yet another example that, as I've pointed out before, the collector faction in model railroading and not the actual modelers, is what today is driving the manufacturers. If built to true scale and as a non-articulated just as the real Q2 was, the model will likely require track radii well in excess of 48" to operate (maybe 60"!). How many HO layouts have you every seen, or even heard of, with such specs? Don't expect to see many small, quality steamers in the future, that's clearly not where the market is going. The future is in making shelf queens. How's about a Pennsy S-1 next?
CNJ831
If built to true scale and as a non-articulated just as the real Q2 was, the model will likely require track radii well in excess of 48" to operate. How many HO layouts have you every seen, or even heard of, with such specs?
Super-Heavy Weighted Brass Construction and Detail Features the ALL-NEW Paragon2 SOUND & Control System Integral DCC Decoder with Back EMF for Industry Best Slow Speed Operation in DC and DCC (1 smph @ 128 Speed Steps) Precision Drive Mechanism with sprung drivers engineered for continuous heavy load towing and ultra-smooth slow speed operation Fly-Wheel Synchronized Puffing Smoke and Chuff Grade & Load-sensing variable Smoke & Chuff Intensity (Less smoke and lighter chuff sounds when on a decline/less load; more smoke and belabored chuff when on inclines/more load.) 5-Pole Can Motor with Skew Wound Armature Premium Caliber Painting with Authentic Paint Schemes Operating Cab Roof Vents Operating Metal Knuckle Couplers (2) Factory Installed Engineer and Firemen Figures Minimum radius: 22 radius (!!!) or greater recommended.
That'll look fantastic -- I can hardly wait to see the overhang on the 22" sectional track now!!
Yet another example that, as I've pointed out before, the collector faction in model railroading and not the actual modelers, is what today is driving the manufacturers.
balearic If built to true scale and as a non-articulated just as the real Q2 was, the model will likely require track radii well in excess of 48" to operate. How many HO layouts have you every seen, or even heard of, with such specs? Looks like that's not exactly what they have in mind (see below). Super-Heavy Weighted Brass Construction and Detail Features the ALL-NEW Paragon2 SOUND & Control System Integral DCC Decoder with Back EMF for Industry Best Slow Speed Operation in DC and DCC (1 smph @ 128 Speed Steps) Precision Drive Mechanism with sprung drivers engineered for continuous heavy load towing and ultra-smooth slow speed operation Fly-Wheel Synchronized Puffing Smoke and Chuff Grade & Load-sensing variable Smoke & Chuff Intensity (Less smoke and lighter chuff sounds when on a decline/less load; more smoke and belabored chuff when on inclines/more load.) 5-Pole Can Motor with Skew Wound Armature Premium Caliber Painting with Authentic Paint Schemes Operating Cab Roof Vents Operating Metal Knuckle Couplers (2) Factory Installed Engineer and Firemen Figures Minimum radius: 22 radius (!!!) or greater recommended. That'll look fantastic -- I can hardly wait to see the overhang on the 22" sectional track now!!
Yes, it probably will look very much like that 4-12-2 articulated abomination MTH recently put out. That was a classic example of turning a scale model into a toy train.
CNJ831 Yes, it probably will look very much like that 4-12-2 articulated abomination MTH recently put out. That was a classic example of turning a scale model into a toy train. CNJ831
MTH-----I thought it is/was a toy train manufacturer.
And because of the scale model thing being thrown into the toy train category as well----
We get this------overhanging thing that we see the collector going after
OY.
The description suggests that this isn't going to be your typical $399 BLI Paragon 2 engine. I'd be surprised if its MSRP is less than $599.
I would go for the S1, John, if it were to be live steam. My wife would holler that the kettle is boiling.
From a modeler´s point of view, there is no sense in releasing locos like that, but they are sellers! With the vast number of roads in the US, it is some job to find out which loco will sell, as the "standard" USRA types are pretty much covered by the industry already. I don´t think, that the typical XY RR 2-8-0 workhorse will sell well in the market. Market potential for those UP or PRR monsters seems to be bigger...
That´s why Marklin re-releases the Big Boy again - it will also sell in Germany, because it epitomizes US steam!
... and we will run it on our standard 14" radius!
That's because the masses have turned away from trains as a hobby, and manufacturers have decided to chase the money of collectors in order to survive. Since collectors usually want either oddball items or else big, impressive items (either of which set them apart from the "less-important" masses), it only stands to reason that manufacturers would build less-common engines for a relatively limited number of people as opposed to a more-common engine that would appeal to a broader cross-section of the hobby.
So tell me why would a collector want a factory (i.e. "mass") produced model that smokes and makes the appropriate sounds and maybe a few questionable ones coupled with the compromises required to make it go around 22" radius curves only to have it sit in a display case? Seems to me that this anonymous evil collector would rather have the hyper-detailed models produced by the likes of PSC, Glacier Park, OMI, etc., which don't make the compromises, which are built in very limited quantities and which go for 3+ times more, thus ensuring this "spawn of Satan collector" the satisfaction of knowing he has something the great unwashed masses can't afford.
As for "common" engines, every single USRA engine has been done already, albeit in as delivered condition and not reflecting years of shoppings and resultant modifications by the railroads that had the originals, not to mention copies.
What's your definiton of a common engine? For an SP/UP fan, those would be the Harriman 4-6-0, 2-8-0, 2-8-2, 4-6-2 (Light and Heavy). Bachmann chose to base their Harriman 2-8-0 on the IC engines with Baker valve gear rather than the more numerous SP and UP versions with valves slightly inboard of the cylinders actuated by Stephenson Valve gear. At least the Spectrums are versatile conversion fodder, having been cobbled into engines as diverse as a CV M-5 and an SP C-11 (ex Cotton Belt K-1) and redetailed for Illinois Central #908. Probably more, but those come to mind readily.
Suppose BLI had chosen to produce Pennsy engines of classes H8, H9 and H10. Would that be OK? After all, these were common engines, but only on the Pennsy. Unless you're a Pennsy fan or willing to have your free-lance line have a Pennsy look, they wouldn't do you a fat lot of good. BLI's already done the Pennsy I1s, which, given its numbers (close to 600, IIRC) would qualify it as a common engine, but again, only on the Pennsy. BLI even had the courtesy to do versions with the short 90F82 tender and the 210F82A "Coast to Coast" tender.
I wonder who would be howling if some manufacturer decided to reproduce Alaska Railroad's #'s 801 and 802, the lightest 4-8-2's in North America. http://www.alaskarails.org/pix/former-loco/JK-801a.html Not a common engine, but certainly one that could take 22" curves in HO without a lot of special engineering. Interestingly enough, someone kitbashed one out of a Spectrum USRA light. http://alaskamodelrrnews.homestead.com/Steam.html#anchor_1029
And why, pray tell, would this (the Q2) be a case of pandering to a collector of scale locomotives as you stated earlier?
You're right, the MTH UP 9000 is an abomination. No collector in his right mind would want one of those, so how do collectors end up being targets of misplaced outrage?
Jacktal How come we never hear of such engines in N scale?Sure would save to get one....well...I'll keep on dreaming....for a long long time I guess.
If you like steam locomotives instensely, maybe you chose the wrong scale.
Mark
selector This is not going to be very welcome news for many of you, but BLI has the Q2 listed for delivery late this year! That was the 4-4-6-4 Duplex which was the most powerful non-articulated steamer every produced.
This is not going to be very welcome news for many of you, but BLI has the Q2 listed for delivery late this year! That was the 4-4-6-4 Duplex which was the most powerful non-articulated steamer every produced.
I bet BLI will turn it into an articulated, even doubly articulated. Anyone dare to challenge that opinion?
blownout cylinder Paul3 Barry,How many switchers do you want? Proto 2000 already has made several runs of 0-8-0's & 0-6-0's. Spectrum has decent 0-6-0T's, and Mantua has 0-6-0T's and 0-6-0 Camelbacks. What's the problem? Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven******************* All kinds----look. If large loco collectors can have their fun---eccentrics like moi should be allowed ours!! So there-----HHAAAARRRUUUMPH
Moi? Is that French? (Canadian?)
Crandell must be thrilled! THIS news on O-Canada Day!
There's no doubt in my military mind, Mark. They'd sell one out of very four if they listed it for 26" or above, and even then it would have to be doubly articulated.
I am curious how BLI will treat the blast pipes on their version of the UP 9000's.
loathar, I have to admit that the description and specs is mighty intriguing. I am just afraid how many burgers I'm going to have to flip to get one.
selector I am curious how BLI will treat the blast pipes on their version of the UP 9000's.
I'm afraid to ask.
Crandell-I like mine rare with mayo, catsup, and lettuse. Let me know how many I must consume for you to reach your lofty goal!
PS-At least it's not another 2-10-2!
Gosh, they only made 25 of this type and they operated no longer than 7 years (not past 1951). Powerful? Yes. Successful? Marginally.
Does that finally mean, that we will always see MTH and BLI releasing the same loco into the market?
If my memory does not play tricks on me, the PRR Q2 was already available from MTH some time ago.
Edit:
- I goofed, it was in O scale!
well... not for me... i doubt the box would fit in this closet they call an apartment .
At least I was able to get my hands (hopefully) on a (very) few of the last-run locos out of Bowser....
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
andrechapelon Yes, it probably will look very much like that 4-12-2 articulated abomination MTH recently put out. That was a classic example of turning a scale model into a toy train. CNJ831 And why, pray tell, would this (the Q2) be a case of pandering to a collector of scale locomotives as you stated earlier? You're right, the MTH UP 9000 is an abomination. No collector in his right mind would want one of those, so how do collectors end up being targets of misplaced outrage? Andre
Here is where the collector market really gets funny
The thing to note here is the Novelty of the train. I know of at least 6 people up here who got all excited about the dang Q2 only because of the "Wild idea that it should do a 22" curve!!" And they propose to buy it!
Right mind? I'll say this. After working in the antiques field as long as I have, I do not estimate the ability of a collector to use that right mind. If they love what they see---out comes the wallet
markpierce selector This is not going to be very welcome news for many of you, but BLI has the Q2 listed for delivery late this year! That was the 4-4-6-4 Duplex which was the most powerful non-articulated steamer every produced. I bet BLI will turn it into an articulated, even doubly articulated. Anyone dare to challenge that opinion? Mark
Articulated? Knowing that some have already argued for this----I'll be watching for boiler overhangs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW--Loather: Moi, is sorta French--Canadian. And I'm being a satirical guy there----heeheehee
Snooze.
Wake me for a USEFUL steam model.....
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
orsonroySnooze. Wake me for a USEFUL steam model.....
What would that be, then?
If we don´t tell the industry, how should they know? As you all know, a good marketing person sells freezers to the Innuit...
Seriously, most leading European model railroading magazines conduct a poll each year, which is taken seriuos by the industry - it is not a "dream list", where you can enter just any crazy idea, but it is categorized and channelled "a little". It helps to reduce double developments, like we see from MTH and BLI.
Btw, Barry, Marklin´s famous Class 44 2-10-0 was "articulated", having a split, but linked frame - they still do that with their bigger steamers, so they can negotiate that infamous 14" radius!
The HO collector of today is not synonymous in interests with the brass collectors of the past. The latter wanted absolute accuracy in their models and models of all sizes. The great majority of today's HO collectors just want big, unusual and generally impressive-looking items. That these engines also make noise and blow smoke like the Lionel toy trains of yore is to them a plus. The absurdity of MTH's 4-12-2, articulated and split at the steam pipes from the cylinders, is a perfect example of accuracy not mattering to modern collectors. Undoubtedly, the new BLI offering will have to go much the same totally unrealistic route to operate on 22" radii.
The prices also clearly put these models in the collector's arena, rather than as models for the general layout operator. The situation was not a significant problem in the past, when brass manufacturers were separate from those making locomotives for the actual model railroad hobbyist. But now it is the source of modelers' engines that are increasingly turning to the collector market and away from the general hobbyist for their customers. I can appreciate the manufacturers' position of a search for profit but it becomes yet another factor slowly choking out the real model railroaders of the hobby.
CNJ831[ I can appreciate the manufacturers' position of a search for profit but it becomes yet another factor slowly choking out the real model railroaders of the hobby. CNJ831
[ I can appreciate the manufacturers' position of a search for profit but it becomes yet another factor slowly choking out the real model railroaders of the hobby.
Truth, nothing but the truth - that is very well describing what we see in good old Europe for some years now - locos in the price range of 500 - 1,000 $, limited runs only, and when you have finally saved up ´nuff cash, there gone!
One of the reason I gave up modeling European prototype...
... and certainly also the reason why all of the European makers had financial problems in the past.