blownout cylinder But where are the switchers?
But where are the switchers?
You can always do what the Norfolk & Western did. Just put footboards on your Y-3.
Incidentally, until they bought the S-1 0-8-0s from Chessie in 1948, the N&W did all of their switching with de-rated road locos. Of course, they had a lot of low-drivered road locos.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with small steam locomotives, none designed as switchers)
I find these types of threads interesting. What most don't understand is that the companies that manufacture the loco's know their business and what sells. They do a lot of research of what will sell and what won't. They don't care who is a an expert toy train person and who is a 20 year newbie. They care about who will buy their product and that they can make money with the products sold. Another thing they look at is tooling, including what they have on hand, what they can rent from someone else and what the costs are to design a new product. I would think that hiring someone to accurately develop a design for a loco, and produce the tooling would cost a good quarter to half a million dollars, not to mention the numerous other issues to support the product. You don't engineer a loco, but you engineer the hundreds of individual parts that become the loco. I had the experience of being a product manager for an electronic firm for 6 years. I was surprised at the cost of tooling. A design and tooling of relatively simple membrane keypad with 20 buttons and graphics cost 25k a decade ago.
My memory fails me but very recently one of the major brands canceled a release because their mold had cracked or gone bad. This would have been because the price to produce a new one was deemed too high vs the return on the investment.
Springfield PA
cudaken I all ready been to the BLI site ready to leave a deposit! Figures now I can afford one, not one to be found!
I all ready been to the BLI site ready to leave a deposit! Figures now I can afford one, not one to be found!
There is 1 on ebay, but its a buy it now for $699. These beasts went real fast. Try to track one down, its the best broadway engine I own, no question.
I hate Rust
Someone resurrected an ancient thread.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Hi Fred: I agree completely. I've contacted BLI several times and thanked them for their 2-8-2s and beg them to try a 2-8-0 or a 4-4-2. In fact I am having trouble find an PRR E-6 even in brass. Best of luck. PS I used to be a school chum of Bill Ryan's son Bill. Wonder where he is now?
Pat
1948PRRAt risk of shifting the thread...since you mentioned the legal isues between MTH and BLI, can anyone explain why the remedy involved BLI surrendering the tooling for Alco FA, Baldwin RF16, and EMD F3 models? These weren't/aren't even being produced by MTH?
An issue with market control showed up here. There was some talk, or rather rumours being tossed/kicked around that those were going to be produced but then---here we are.
1948PRRAll I read about it, up to the decision, was associated with regulated throttle control, which BLI was forced to disable, but now ships, and can re-enable.
And there was virtually nothing done on that level.
However, since that period those two have been doing a coupled tit for tat with each other. Hence my suspicion that these two are also using the collector market as a means of doing one up manship games as well. It seems that everytime one makes a particular model the other makes the same dang thing-----and using the same manufacturer? Still?
Very odd lot this----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
At risk of shifting the thread...since you mentioned the legal isues between MTH and BLI, can anyone explain why the remedy involved BLI surrendering the tooling for Alco FA, Baldwin RF16, and EMD F3 models? These weren't/aren't even being produced by MTH?
The PRR versions had trainphone antennas and were beautiful. I needed all three, Now they're gone.
All I read about it, up to the decision, was associated with regulated throttle control, which BLI was forced to disable, but now ships, and can re-enable.
Paul3 John,I've been in the hobby "seriously" for 20 years. Earlier still, I grew up with an HO layout in my basement because my father has been in the hobby since just after WWII and switched over to HO scale around 1958-63. How many decades does one have to be in the hobby before one cannot be dismissed as some kind of newbie? What I'm saying here is that just because I disagree with you doesn't make me ignorant. You and I see the same things and come to different conclusions. That doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about, just that we disagree. Paul A. Cutler III*******************
John,I've been in the hobby "seriously" for 20 years. Earlier still, I grew up with an HO layout in my basement because my father has been in the hobby since just after WWII and switched over to HO scale around 1958-63. How many decades does one have to be in the hobby before one cannot be dismissed as some kind of newbie? What I'm saying here is that just because I disagree with you doesn't make me ignorant. You and I see the same things and come to different conclusions. That doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about, just that we disagree.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************
Paul, check your PMs.
CNJ831
... Barry, Barry - you do have a way of making friends...
Sir Madog... good idea Barry, but who will make a list of what loco? They´d most likely get a zillion product suggestions because everyone wants to see "his/hers" favourite...
See? That's the problem---when the collector comes along with the monster loco email request people jump. BUT------when the guy/gal who needs a 2-6-0 for the switching wants summat they get the gears---
AACCH-----do the dang thing anyway---
Maybe we need to form a common front----The Society To Release MRR From The Collector.
Sir Madog blownout cylinder Maybe what needs done is the email barrage to other mfgrs to pick up the slack----- ... good idea Barry, but who will make a list of what loco? They´d most likely get a zillion product suggestions because everyone wants to see "his/hers" favourite... The e-mail could go like this "Dear Mr. Athearn" Instead of releasing the umpteenth new version of SD40-2, GP38-2 or SW1500 into the market, why don´t you produce a loco that is not yet available, but dearly expected by us model railroaders. This would be the type 123 of railroad XYZ in the rebuilt verson of 192x..." Maybe I am too pessimistic, but I doubt that ´d work.
blownout cylinder Maybe what needs done is the email barrage to other mfgrs to pick up the slack-----
Maybe what needs done is the email barrage to other mfgrs to pick up the slack-----
... good idea Barry, but who will make a list of what loco? They´d most likely get a zillion product suggestions because everyone wants to see "his/hers" favourite...
The e-mail could go like this
"Dear Mr. Athearn"
Instead of releasing the umpteenth new version of SD40-2, GP38-2 or SW1500 into the market, why don´t you produce a loco that is not yet available, but dearly expected by us model railroaders. This would be the type 123 of railroad XYZ in the rebuilt verson of 192x..."
Maybe I am too pessimistic, but I doubt that ´d work.
That could swing just the opposite as well..
Dear Mr. Athearn,
Instead of producing steam locomotives why not produce a line of Lima diesels? After all the market is wide open for these locomotives since they have never been mass produce.
In reality I suspect we will see cows fly before we see Lima diesels.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Instead of releasing the umpteenth new version of SD40-2, GP38-2 or SW1500 into the market, why don´t you produce a loco that is not yet available, but dearly expected by us model railroaders. This would be the type 123 of railroad XYZ in the rebuilt version of 192x..."
Maybe I am too pessimistic, but I doubt that it would work.
rjake4454 Sir Madog Risking to get kicked in my b.. , I´ll add another of mine to this thread. I don´t mind BLI and MTH releasing locos that are too large for the average layout and that saw only a small number in real life. I do like the looks of these beasts and, providing that I have some surplus cash to spend, I´d even buy one. although they´d be totally out of place and time on my projected switching layout. I understand BLI and MTH as "upmarket" brands that supply spectacular, fascinating, "emotionally laden " locos at prices Marklin and Trix are asking as well. The reason why we have this discussion is, because Bachmann, Atlas and Athearn fail to produce the ubiquiteous workhorses of the past we like to see on our layouts. IMHO, they should be the makers of those Prairies, Pacifics, Consolidations, Mikados, Ten-Wheelers, Atlantics, Hudsons. Leaving the Big Boys, Challengers, TTT´s , Triplexes, UP 9000´s et al. to BLI and MTH would then be quite ok for most of us, wouldn´t ? You state the obvious facts so clearly and concisely, much appreciated.
Sir Madog Risking to get kicked in my b.. , I´ll add another of mine to this thread. I don´t mind BLI and MTH releasing locos that are too large for the average layout and that saw only a small number in real life. I do like the looks of these beasts and, providing that I have some surplus cash to spend, I´d even buy one. although they´d be totally out of place and time on my projected switching layout. I understand BLI and MTH as "upmarket" brands that supply spectacular, fascinating, "emotionally laden " locos at prices Marklin and Trix are asking as well. The reason why we have this discussion is, because Bachmann, Atlas and Athearn fail to produce the ubiquiteous workhorses of the past we like to see on our layouts. IMHO, they should be the makers of those Prairies, Pacifics, Consolidations, Mikados, Ten-Wheelers, Atlantics, Hudsons. Leaving the Big Boys, Challengers, TTT´s , Triplexes, UP 9000´s et al. to BLI and MTH would then be quite ok for most of us, wouldn´t ?
Risking to get kicked in my b.. , I´ll add another of mine to this thread.
I don´t mind BLI and MTH releasing locos that are too large for the average layout and that saw only a small number in real life. I do like the looks of these beasts and, providing that I have some surplus cash to spend, I´d even buy one. although they´d be totally out of place and time on my projected switching layout.
I understand BLI and MTH as "upmarket" brands that supply spectacular, fascinating, "emotionally laden " locos at prices Marklin and Trix are asking as well.
The reason why we have this discussion is, because Bachmann, Atlas and Athearn fail to produce the ubiquiteous workhorses of the past we like to see on our layouts. IMHO, they should be the makers of those Prairies, Pacifics, Consolidations, Mikados, Ten-Wheelers, Atlantics, Hudsons. Leaving the Big Boys, Challengers, TTT´s , Triplexes, UP 9000´s et al. to BLI and MTH would then be quite ok for most of us, wouldn´t ?
You state the obvious facts so clearly and concisely, much appreciated.
It is so obvious yet seems so obscure to others that we get the merry go round happening here---
The reason why we have this discussion is, because Bachmann, Atlas and Athearn fail to produce the ubiquiteous workhorses of the past we like to see on our layouts. IMHO, they should be the makers of those Prairies, Pacifics, Consolidations, Mikados, Ten-Wheelers, Atlantics, Hudsons. Leaving the Big Boys, Challengers, TTT´s , Triplexes, UP 9000´s et al. to BLI and MTH would then be quite ok for most of us, wouldn´t it ?
Hi, CZ. There is an image of an intial prototype...of the model... on BLI's website. Maybe the tender shown is clear enough for you to tell if they're gonna cheat?
-Crandell
cointrain Hi all I was emailing BLI for months trying to get them to make it. I sent pictures and every thing. I did a survey on 3 websites on how may people want a Q2 and I got about 150 replys and I emailed the survey to Broadway limited after the signing just about stopped. I got an email back and they said there talking and look what I helped do. When they told me that other people also emailed them they said maybe instead of no. And look now we got it. Im gonna get a dt402d and a Ur92 so i can run all functions. Like the auto pilot. I also emailed factory direct trains for there price and they say theyll put it on next week and there price soon. There gonna email me again about something im hoping about priceIm gonna buy at least 2 at the most 4 Adam Pomeranz
Hi all I was emailing BLI for months trying to get them to make it. I sent pictures and every thing. I did a survey on 3 websites on how may people want a Q2 and I got about 150 replys and I emailed the survey to Broadway limited after the signing just about stopped. I got an email back and they said there talking and look what I helped do. When they told me that other people also emailed them they said maybe instead of no. And look now we got it. Im gonna get a dt402d and a Ur92 so i can run all functions. Like the auto pilot. I also emailed factory direct trains for there price and they say theyll put it on next week and there price soon. There gonna email me again about something im hoping about priceIm gonna buy at least 2 at the most 4
Adam Pomeranz
selectorThis is not going to be very welcome news for many of you, but BLI has the Q2 listed for delivery late this year! That was the 4-4-6-4 Duplex which was the most powerful non-articulated steamer ever produced. First they announce that they will make the UP 9000 series 4-12-2 engines, and now this!? I guess I'll have to start flippin' burgers. -Crandell
This is not going to be very welcome news for many of you, but BLI has the Q2 listed for delivery late this year! That was the 4-4-6-4 Duplex which was the most powerful non-articulated steamer ever produced. First they announce that they will make the UP 9000 series 4-12-2 engines, and now this!?
I guess I'll have to start flippin' burgers.
Crandell
I have been out chasing the 4449 out of Portland the last two days and have not seen the Q2 announcement. This probably means MTH will announce it also within a week or two. I for one will get the Q2 since I have a Westside Q2, but I don't install sound or DCC into standard brass locomotives. The pickup on one side of the locomotive and one side of the tender of the old brass does not make for good DCC operation.
Good to hear they are bringing it out. hope they realize the Q2 tender is not the same as the J1 and not use the same shell.
CZ
blownout cylinder andrechapelon Either that or we have to form an even more powerful cult that will overwhelm BLI with a flood of demands for Harriman engines that is of Biblical proportions. We'll give BLI a total of 40 days and 40 nights to get with the program. After that, they'd better either be able to tread water for an awfully long time or be well supplied with life vests. Can I hear an AMEN, brethren and sistern? Amen Bro!!!
andrechapelon Either that or we have to form an even more powerful cult that will overwhelm BLI with a flood of demands for Harriman engines that is of Biblical proportions. We'll give BLI a total of 40 days and 40 nights to get with the program. After that, they'd better either be able to tread water for an awfully long time or be well supplied with life vests. Can I hear an AMEN, brethren and sistern?
Either that or we have to form an even more powerful cult that will overwhelm BLI with a flood of demands for Harriman engines that is of Biblical proportions. We'll give BLI a total of 40 days and 40 nights to get with the program. After that, they'd better either be able to tread water for an awfully long time or be well supplied with life vests.
Can I hear an AMEN, brethren and sistern?
Amen Bro!!!
cool
Adam
I have done my part...as I said earlier. I have pointedly asked Matt Williamson and team to start feeding the rest of the USA modelling world. No more UP/Pennsy/NYC steamers for the foreseeable future. 2012 at least!
Please!!
Ah, the plot thickens. There's a powerful cult out there, this guy is part of it and he and the cult need to be stopped before any more damage is done.
Andre
Paul3IRT model railroading on a simulator...of course it's not considered "classic model railroading". It's not old enough to be considered "classic". But building a world on the PC and making accurate computer models of equipment can take just as much time, effort and research as making a real-world model of it. IOW, yes, I consider TrainSim-folks to be model railroaders, too. To me, it doesn't make a whit of difference what medium a person uses to recreate railroads. Wood, metal, plastic, electrons...it makes no difference to me.
I could argue here that there is a difference, or rather distinction, between the various forms of Model Railroading. It's just that I do not see a hierarchical development between them. If there is/was no difference the very concept of 'model railroads' would be non existent. Nor would it be any different from playing with stones or such. I don't see why his concern for 'Real' modern railroading is an issue anyways. I see that rhetoric as more purist in approach while others have a different ( dang. There's that word again) way of approaching it. Hence, overall, the merry go round of dialog-------
elauterbach You should notice that the Q2 is part of the Hybrid line. I look at this line as a replacement for the less exspensive brass that we used to see like Sunset's "prestige" line that produced a number of nice brass engines that were cheap in terms of brass prices. I will be getting one of these for my layout to run. The hybrid line seems aimed at engine that will have a lower manufacturing run, but supply engines that modelers would not otherwise see.
You should notice that the Q2 is part of the Hybrid line. I look at this line as a replacement for the less exspensive brass that we used to see like Sunset's "prestige" line that produced a number of nice brass engines that were cheap in terms of brass prices. I will be getting one of these for my layout to run. The hybrid line seems aimed at engine that will have a lower manufacturing run, but supply engines that modelers would not otherwise see.
Exactly. Very well stated.
elauterbachThe one thing I don't understand is the anger.
I don't know that anger is the right word, but frustration surely is.
And it comes from one simple fact - the money that tooled up the third Big Boy, the forth PRR K4, the third GS 4, etc, etc, could have all gone into some locos for which the manufacturer would have had no competition.
I get that people like big steam - to a limit so do I, but this sillyness of eveybody making the same models, and all of them are same giant "collector" pieces is just crazy.
OK, now we are on to some new "giants", that's better than the same ones over and over, but some variety in size would be nice.
Sheldon
There have been a number of nice smaller steam engines. The Bachmann 2-10-0, 2-8-0, 4-4-0, and 4-6-0 come to mind. The biggest problems with smaller steam is finding a prototype that will appeal to a number of modelers. The USRA light 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 are prime examples. Hopefully we will see UP and PRR 2-8-0's, as both the railroads have a large following.
The one thing I don't understand is the anger. There have been many engines produced that don't fit my layout in terms of era or railroad. However, that is just the nature of the game. I would love a nice Milwaukee Road Little Joe to pull my Walthers Hiawatha set, but no luck. We all have certain criteria an engine has to meet for us to spend the money. The Q2 may not meet your criteria, but then again the Bachmann 4-6-0 doesn't meet mine. The key is that we have more high quality engines then we ever did before. I can remember the 1980's and early 1990's, when all you had was engine that were poorly made and did not have the detail.
Eric
Rather than comment again on things I have commented on dozens of times, I will simply remind any manufacturers who might be reading that if they want my money they need to AVOID:
Anything with a rigid wheel base longer than 20 scale feet.
Anything that ran on the PRR.
Anything that has already been done by multiple manufacturers in the last 10 years.
Anything that costs over $400.00
I will consider locos that are:
Medium in size. Currently desired wheel arangements include: 4-4-2, 4-6-2, 2-8-2, 4-6-0
Any prototype as long as its features are not highly unique (like those of the PRR).
Preferably offered without sound and DCC, OR have low enough prices that the cost of those features are not a factor.
Any loco meeting this qualifications and having suitable running performance would likely be purchased in quantities of 2-4 of each.
Specific recommendations include:
Any/all Harriman locos, DT&I 800 class 2-8-2, USRA Heavy 4-6-2, C&NW 4-4-2, Any/all Reading or CNJ camelbacks, modern classes of B&O 4-6-0, just to name a few.