Hi , I have never scene this make of HO rolling stock in my local hobby shop, and I see that there are some good buys on the internet. I want to avoid cars that are similar to the older Model Power, Bachmann and Lifelike cars.
Trains Miniature was a respected name back many years ago. There are collectors who cherish anything with the Trains Miniature label. By the standards of 2009, the Trains Miniature models are only fair, the newer models from Red Caboose, Intermountain, Kadee, Atlas, and even Athearn, have better detail, more realistic paint jobs, and better rolling qualtities. Bottom line, I would buy Trains Miniature stuff off the internet, but I would not pay a super premium for the privilege. As a price guide, you can get Athearn blue box and Accurail models for $7-$10, and premium models for $20. I personally would not pay more than $10 a car for Trains Miniature models. Your mileage may vary.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
OnrmanHi , I have never scene this make of HO rolling stock in my local hobby shop, and I see that there are some good buys on the internet. I want to avoid cars that are similar to the older Model Power, Bachmann and Lifelike cars.
I started purchasing the Trains Miniature cars in HO since they had the old billboard type box cars. This was in 1970 and they have not been available for a long time now. If I remember correctly, the same people that imported Balboa brass offered the Trains Miniature line.
They were super for 1970, but time has moved on. I never built any of them and they are still new in the box. I would believe they are much better than any of the brands you listed.
With all of the great models available today, why would you want these?
CZ
One quick answer - very cheap!
Unless you've been in the hobby for many years it's not surprising for one not to recognize the Train Miniature name. Train Miniature/Train Miniature of Illinois had peak sales back around 35 years ago and were for a time a favorite of more serious model railroaders.
TM was rather unique in several ways. They were among the first to offer a broad selection of semi accurate pre-war era rolling stock. Likewise, their box cars were physically smaller than those by Athearn in the same relation as were the prototype, back in a time when many hobbyists didn't fully appreciate that various freight car styles varied in physical size. This initially hindered TM's sales but was eventually overcome.
TM cleverly made their box car ends interchangable, allowing them to create a much wider range of DS and steel car types. Although not all were truly accurate, they did provide a wider selection and diversity of rolling stock then ever possible previously. Unfortunately, TM box cars suffered from having the same awful door claws Athearn had, although the reefers had more accurate, cast in place, doors.
TM also created one of the very few actually collectible items in HO scale. Their ice reefers and more particularly their Tobacco Road series of cars is collectible right down to today.
In later years, most of the TM molds went to Walthers, who offered some of the cars, particularly the TM PRR X-29 example, in their Train Line sets right down to the present.
Outside of certain of the high value collectible reefers and the entire tobacco series, TM cars generally sell for around $10-$15.
CNJ831
CNJ wrapped it up pretty well.
Back in the 'seventies I bought a great many TM cars--there was an extremely wide variety of box and refrigerator types available. I still run them on my MR, having upgraded the trucks and couplers.
One thing about some of the TM cars, especially the boxcars, they were fairly prone to lettering them for railroads that never owned that particular type of car--for instance, lettering what was obviously a Pennsy built boxcar for Rio Grande--but their size alone made for a good prototypical 'breakup' of car heights in a freight train.
I have some of their ice-bunker refrigerator cars, and they're still incredibly good-looking in a consist. They were a good quality back then, and they still look good. I believe that they were one of the first to offer the PFE wood reefer with the Western Pacific herald--I know that the owner of my LHS had a great deal of trouble keeping them in stock. I think I ended up with four or five. Still run them, they look very nice intermingled with my Red Caboose and Intermountain reefers of the same type.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I recall when Walthers took over production of the Train Miniature boxcars and reefers c. 1986 some people at the LHS complained about the exhorbitant price - $5.29 compared to $3 for an Athearn kit. Walthers version of the cars had better decoration than the TM ones as I recall.
Walthers made many variations of the 40' boxcar, like the X-29, woodside double sheathed, woodside single sheathed, wood sided / steel ends and roofs, all wood etc. though except for the ones in their Trainline line they're no longer around. I have quite a few as they were a good deal for someone looking for 1910's-20's era built cars.
As someone noted these were based on 8' tall cars, before the 10' "high cars" came along in the thirties.
twhite One thing about some of the TM cars, especially the boxcars, they were fairly prone to lettering them for railroads that never owned that particular type of car--for instance, lettering what was obviously a Pennsy built boxcar for Rio Grande--
One thing about some of the TM cars, especially the boxcars, they were fairly prone to lettering them for railroads that never owned that particular type of car--for instance, lettering what was obviously a Pennsy built boxcar for Rio Grande--
This is still common even now. In fact, the last car I built (was last week) was a 42-foot fishbelly flat car lettered for the Southern Pacific. While the car number was in SP's flat car series, the prototype had straight car-side sills and A. Thompson's book on SP flat cars showed the railroad never had such cars. This was a Red Caboose model and this kind of thing has happened to me twice earlier this year already (Sacramento Northern GS gondola--wrong GS variation, and SP express box car--wrong running board, wrong doors, absent steam and signal lines, etc) with this manufacturer which is considered one of the better mass producers .
Mark
Someone else will have to tell you if they are any good or not because I never owned one . . . . . . . . . . but it sure wasn't for a lack of trying. I must have ordered ten to fifteen of these things through Terminal Hobby Shop when I was in Germany with the Air Force in the early-'70s; I always got an "OUT OF STOCK" certificate back. I eventually quit ordering and went to other products. About five years later I tried ordering through Hobbies For Men with the same results.
If I remember right production was so erratic that Walthers eventually dropped them from their catalog!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
I used to buy the Train Miniature cars in the 1970's. They were a kit like the Athearn BB cars. I liked the detail and quality of these cars so well that with the execption of a few Athearn passenger cars and Rounhouse old timer cars I would only buy the Train Minature cars. Never went back to Athearn for any of there cars.
So, years later when I got back into model railroading I was pleasantly surprised to locate a box of my old model railroad equipment containing a couple dozen of the Train Minature cars and a couple of MDC kit steam engines as well.
All the other boxes had been given away by my parents over the years after I left home and was no longer interested in model railroading. I have replaced the plastic wheels and couplers and these cars run great.
Weren't the Walther's work train sets 1 and 2 made from the Train Miniature molds? Those sets seem to bring in a fair amount on eBay. I have been trying to get my hands on both sets for a while now (Santa Fe).
As Train Miniature cars...
Or as Walthers....
At a time when Athearn and Model Die Casting were the industry standard, everyone was ultra familiar with their lines, so the Train Miniature cars filled many gaps because they were different cars that Athearn and MDC did not offer, yet built up in mostly the same ways. What I remember is that the Train Miniature of Illinois packaging was a plastic box, and once you assembled the car, with couplers, it no longer fit in the box because you could not turn the car sideways. Also they used some plastic for the packaging inside the box that had a textured surface that was perfect for HO stucco. I may still have a piece or two of that white plastic around somewhere.
One oddity about Train Miniature ... the plastic 33" wheel sets for their trucks were the only wheels that worked well when replacing the wheel/axle combination on the old AHM trucks. For whatever reason other makes did not work with the old AHM trucks, so I remember buying quite a large supply to retrofit my many AHM cars.
For a very brief time Train Miniature offered structure kits. I never saw one on a shelf, never bought one, and have no idea if Walthers has the tooling or not. But a couple of their structures were intriguing.
Dave Nelson
Yes, I had almost forgot that Trains Minature did have a few buildings as well
http://www.hoseeker.org/TrainMiniatureslist/tmlist1971pg3.jpg
There are listings at this site for all of the various cars as well as the buildings I did recently pickup a few of the MOW cars they produced. Got them off e-bay, was surprised at how cheap they went I thought there would have been more interest, but then again prices vary so much on e-bay that you never know what the item will fetch.
Nothing wrong with having some T-M cars around. I have a few in service and a couple more on the shelf unbuilt. I wouldn't pay a premium on them, but they were respectable value in their day.Enjoy, but don't overpay, and you'll feel you've got a fine value.
I just upgraded a Western Union work box car recently, swapping in some better trucks (see below) and Kadee in place of the X2f ones -- you can tell that one's had a blue flag on it for several decades...
I still need to put some glazing in the windows -- or just continue to pretend some vandals used 'em for target practice.
The trucks they used had actual coil springs, although the scale size vs. mass difference meant that this feature didn't act as in real life. Then you lose a spring and things get dicey, so I've put new trucks on a couple of mine. I recycle the spring to make full sets for other T-M cars.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
csmith9474 Weren't the Walther's work train sets 1 and 2 made from the Train Miniature molds? Those sets seem to bring in a fair amount on eBay. I have been trying to get my hands on both sets for a while now (Santa Fe).
Yes,those where TM line of "camp cars".
These "camp cars" started life as True Scale cars which btw came RTR.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
don7 Yes, I had almost forgot that Trains Minature did have a few buildings as well http://www.hoseeker.org/TrainMiniatureslist/tmlist1971pg3.jpg There are listings at this site for all of the various cars as well as the buildings I did recently pickup a few of the MOW cars they produced.
There are listings at this site for all of the various cars as well as the buildings I did recently pickup a few of the MOW cars they produced.
I would point out that the listing provided at the above URL is, at least with regard to the TM cars, only partial at best. The full TM line was much more extensive in road names than indicated there.
The list does, however, serve to refresh my memory concerning TM's long-lived FA-1 locomotive, which appears in the listing. Today, nearly two generations later, that same diesel still survives in production under the Walthers name (I believe with a newer mechanism) as part of their Train Line series.
While this shell is perhaps a bit lacking in detail by today's standards, the engine is still very reliable, a good workhorse runner and quite economical. I had a couple and they ran both endlessly and flawlessly on my modules at many a train show.
I'm not sure if it's true of the TM cars - I started in HO after Walthers took the TM line over so am more familiar with those cars, but I have bought a couple of the original TM cars over years - but one nice thing about the cars that Walthers produced after taking over TM was that the trucks weren't just the same truck on every car....early 40' all-wood cars from the 'teens usually came with archbar trucks, while later cars with say wood sides (double or single-sheathed) but steel roofs and ends from the twenties-thirties came with T-section Bettendorf trucks. I think they added a more modern Bettendorf truck eventually too for later all-steel cars(??). Although they had plastic wheels (with brass axles) they roll quite well.
CNJ831 is quite correct TM had a extensive line of freight cars..The early FA had a early non flywheel Athearn drive..
In my earlier post I forgot to add the Tru Scale link.
http://www.hoseeker.org/truscale/truscalecatalog1961pg07.jpg
T section bettendorfs were banned by the mid forties. Pacific Fruit Express was the exception, they were able to extend T section useage via waivers until 1952. Archbar trucks were deemed obsolete by 1917 or so but were not restricted from interchange until 1942. Many survived past this date to serve on company cars not subject to interchange. Now back to the subject at hand, TM cars were good for their day, they still hold there own when updated with stand alone ladders, grabs, underbody detailing and new roofwalks. I do advise you ditch or carefully inspect the provided truck frames as I have encountered some that were disorted and also chase the truck mounting hole with a 2-56 tap, while your in this deep, ditch the supplied coupler mounting for a Kadee box, verfiy it is up to proper weight and enjoy.
Dave
I remember when Walthers began releasing the TM cars under their own banner, that the trucks provided--though seemingly correct for the type of car--were also in kit form and extremely tricky to put together. In more than one instance, it took me about 45 minutes to assemble the car and 3 days to get the trucks right. And even then, the rolling qualities were not that good. I finally ended up purchasing separate trucks for every TM kit I bought. But I sure liked the kits.
Folks:
Some of the TM structure kits are still available from Life-Like. The factory/warehouse/office is actually a set of 3 variations of the Mt. Vernon Mfg. Co kit, which before TM had it, was sold by Ulrich. It's a modular design and can be kitbashed or varied quite easily with multiple kits. The hotel was also Ulrich's, and is now LL's Belvedere, and is also modular. The shanty, windmill, and water tank are now grouped as LL's "Western Homestead" kit.
twhite I remember when Walthers began releasing the TM cars under their own banner, that the trucks provided--though seemingly correct for the type of car--were also in kit form and extremely tricky to put together. In more than one instance, it took me about 45 minutes to assemble the car and 3 days to get the trucks right. And even then, the rolling qualities were not that good. I finally ended up purchasing separate trucks for every TM kit I bought. But I sure liked the kits. Tom
That's right, I had forgotten about that. They had springs and everything. I guess in a way they were very realistic but wow!! I think I got one together and working (sort of). Luckily right about the time I started into HO Walthers came out with "normal" style plastic trucks (where you just put the wheelsets in) and I bought a set of those for any Walthers kits that came with the other type. After a while the Walthers kits of the old TM type cars came with the one-piece trucks.
I sure did like those cars though, I must have bought 20 or more back when Walthers made them.
Stix:
One of the things I remember about the TM trucks is that the supplied springs from Walthers were not of the same consistency, or even the same length, sometimes. Fitting them was a nightmare, and after they were together, the trucks themselves rode very unevenly. And God forbid that you coupled the cars together with too much force, because the shock would make the springs pop out of the bolsters. Even running, you weren't sure that they wouldn't come loose and collapse the truck. I had several derailments in the middle of the train because the truck on my TM car just gave out.
Not one of Walthers' smarter moves, IMO.
While this thread has been going on, I've been looking at some of my older TM cars. It seems that I replaced the trucks with either Kadees or Athearn truck frames with Kadee wheels. They're still rolling along quite nicely.
And the cars themselves still look darn good!
My father bought a set of 3 of the old beer reefers for me, so they were probably the first car kits I ever put together. Dknelson, I forgot about the axle length on those cars being a perfect fit for AHM rolling stock, because I replaced some of my AHM wheels with Train Miniatures as well.
At some point they offered a set of those reefers decorated for all 50 states, probably during the Bicentennial. The last time I was at the LHS, he was selling a complete set of them secondhand in what appeared to be in perfect condition.
CNJ831, I'm surprised to hear the FA's were good performers. I read somewhere that they were problematic, due to a high RPM motor, and insufficient gear reduction that caused it to run hot. I didn't know they existed until I saw one on eBay a while back, which got me curious.
Steamlocomotive.com has a cars spotter's guide, and Tony Cook is in the process of adding TM to his site.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/model/tm/
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
SteamFreak CNJ831, I'm surprised to hear the FA's were good performers. I read somewhere that they were problematic, due to a high RPM motor, and insufficient gear reduction that caused it to run hot. I didn't know they existed until I saw one on eBay a while back, which got me curious.
The re-motored Walthers Train Line version of the FA-1s were good runners. I really can't say just how good/bad the original TM examples were.
CNJ831 SteamFreak CNJ831, I'm surprised to hear the FA's were good performers. I read somewhere that they were problematic, due to a high RPM motor, and insufficient gear reduction that caused it to run hot. I didn't know they existed until I saw one on eBay a while back, which got me curious. The re-motored Walthers Train Line version of the FA-1s were good runners. I really can't say just how good/bad the original TM examples were. CNJ831
The original FA ran like a non Flywheel Athearn since they used the old Athearn drive.
http://www.hoseeker.org/TrainMiniatureslist/tmalcofa1.jpg
BRAKIECNJ831 The re-motored Walthers Train Line version of the FA-1s were good runners. I really can't say just how good/bad the original TM examples were. CNJ831 The original FA ran like a non Flywheel Athearn since they used the old Athearn drive. http://www.hoseeker.org/TrainMiniatureslist/tmalcofa1.jpg
CNJ831 The re-motored Walthers Train Line version of the FA-1s were good runners. I really can't say just how good/bad the original TM examples were. CNJ831
The Train Miniature cars are among my favourites, and I often find them on the "used" table at the LHS for under $5.00.
I modify them with wire grabs, new paint and lettering and updated underframes, and they make into decent-looking cars that are perfect for my mid-to-late '30s era layout. All of the cars shown were lettered with either Champ decals or C-D-S dry transfers.
Here are a few:
This one was one of my first efforts, involving new ends, rebuilt sides and floor, and lots of wire grabirons:
Here's the TM version of a Pennsy X-29:
And, for comparison, the Red Caboose X-29:
If you have some time, here's a link to a roll-by featuring many upgraded TM cars.
Wayne
doctorwayneIf you have some time, here's a link to a roll-by featuring many upgraded TM cars.
Wow, Wayne. Remind me to go "fishing" with you sometime.