"How many layouts have you built and what did you learn from them?"

[Javern]

I've built two and I have learned I can spend a lot of money on a layout and still never quite happy with it

[selector]

Trainluver, thanks for taking the time to answer me. If you haven't already completed your last layout, I sincerely hope you can get it done with a minimum of anxiety and discomfort. Sounds to me like you will persevere, even though it was rough.

UKguy (Karl), I have been looking over your shoulders, too, and if your layout is anything at all like the pic that is below your signature, I haven't much to show ya, Bud. [^]

Seriously, I have wanted to see what you folks would say about my product, but I don't have a digital camera (price = one LL 0-6-0 plus one BLI 4-6-4 over here in maple leaf country). Maybe I'll get my neighbour over to snap a few shots.

Glad to hear that you are experiencing the same thing....from a misery loves company point of view. It was a great big bear on my back, and I'm glad I can finally run trains. Unfortunately, (and don't laugh!), I am now learning the value of flex-track and real turnouts. My EZ-track ones are proving to be iffy, and my trains derail inconsitantly. i finally put a spot of solder on the heel of one particularly troublesome point and it seems to have helped. it now wobbles less and the gob of solder forces the flanges away from the but end of the adjoining track.

This is getting long. I'll work on the pictures.

[douginut]

4 layouts, downward from 4x8 to hollow core door. none very successful but all great fun. 11 Ntrack modules. They were all fun. now out of biggish house w/basement to little apartment so it will be another ntrack or ONETRACK module depending on the mood of the Ophir and Tintic board.

Doug, in Utah

[ukguy]

Selector, I need to put a new pic on my signature after 'Hurricane Kim' (my wife in a state of extreme PMS) blew through the train room and leveled the hundred or so trees that were planted, so the pic is just a memory of what was. Luckily there was minimal 'real estate' damage, rolling stock and buildings were away in a safe place due to a pre-empting 'Hurricane Warning' earlier that day.
Anyways, its all repaired (two weeks of work that could have been spent elsewhere) and the 150 new trees are made and ready to go in.
Looking forward to seeing the pics when they come in.

Oh and this is my first layout since I was a kid and just played with basically an oval with a few sidings. I've learned wayyyyyy too much to list here, and I'm still learning!!

Thanks for the help on quoting Gary, I guess I couldnt see the wood for the trees in the FAQ.

Have fun & be safe.
Karl.

[Anonymous]

Guys,

This was my response in the original post. Thought I'd repost it here.

Funny you should ask. I have built two layouts and am in the beginning stages of a third. Here is an article I wrote about the last one but never did anything with. The layout discussed here was a Marklin layout. Sorry that it is so long.

Ten things I did wrong and would fix on the next layout

1. Not making a clean electrical connection to every track piece. This error caused me more grief than any other mistake (except spraying the power studs). When the track is new and laying on the cork, it usually functions perfectly. However, after painting, ballasting and gluing of the ballast the track often loses electrical contact Glue seeps in between the press on track connectors and interrupts the electrical flow between pieces. My advice: solder leads to every piece of track. This will take longer in the beginning but not half as long as I have spent trying to make up for not doing it.

2. Spraying the studs. Nothing I did was as bad as this mistake. It dogged the railroad the entire time and was a huge error. When applying glue to the ballast , I soaked the heck out of everything. I sprayed and sprayed matt medium to make sure that things stayed put. The layout looked great but nothing would run at all. For two rail track all one has to do is brite boy the rails and your off and running. Marklin track has studs. Lots of them . They must be individually scraped. There are still dead spots that I have never been able to fix from that fatal spraying. Advice: spray the track sparingly, wipe with a wet cloth to remove the glue. Use a dropper when possible, between the rails (this strategy worked fine on other sections of track)

4. steep grades. Ok, everyone does this at least once and I am sure that those of you bent on doing the steep grade thing are not going to be swayed by seeing the warning in print again. The reasons for having 5 or 6 percent grades are that one can climb (in a short run) high enough to cross over the other track and it is possible to have two levels of track in a small space. For two rail systems, most locos will not pull trains up these grades with out traction tires. Marklin gear has the tires and has no problems in this area. The more insidious problem with steep grades is how they look. One cannot put buildings next to them lest they look out of plumb. Trains look unrealistic climbing them as well. Advice: consider hiding steep grades or using a helix if you must climb.

5. hidden track work that I couldn’t reach. Another one that every one does at least once. There was only a little bit of this on the current layout and it happened to be where a large proportion of my derailments happened as well as a switch failure. Advice: make sure you can reach it!!

6. no switching plan before starting, lack of run-arounds. I had little idea why one needed run-arounds until I tried switching some facing point moves. Without the run around you are in trouble big time. Sure they take up space and appear to be extra track work but they are necessary. Advice: try switching your track plan on paper with cutouts for the cars and the locos before you build. Consult other more experienced train guys for help in this area.

7. Yard lead in a tunnel, down hill, s curved and crossing two power districts. This one is about as dumb as it gets but you would be surprised to hear how many guys tell me that they did the same thing on their layouts. Leads are necessary to switch the yard and they must be in plain sight. Any grades here are undesirable as are s curves. Power blocks must be broken in spots that will not require shuttling back and forth between throttles. Advice: plan the yard throat and leads carefully.

8. Not finishing the train room, atmospheric conditions in the garage. This one falls into the “well duh,” category. I was in such a hurry to build my railroad that I didn’t care about the huge gaps in the garage door that let in lots of moist air every night. Nor did I care about the rafters that dropped crud down on the layout. Later when track started corroding and rusting, I began to care about the gaps in the door. It was then too late to fix the problem. As for the ceiling: You haven’t lived until you have tried to hang drywall and finish a ceiling above a nearly completed layout without damaging it. Advice: Consider that the layout will turn out great and that you want to do it right the first time. Fini***he space as well as you can before construction begins.

9. Track on ¼” ply wood. Another rather obvious one. It can be very annoying to spend $50.00 on a sheet of plywood for sub-road bed and then throw half of it away as waste because the track cutouts left you with odd shaped pieces. I saved a few bucks and used ¼ inch plywood. I was later rewarded for my thriftiness with warping track and humps, dips and runaway cars on “level track”. Advice: Use the stiffest, thickest plywood you can as sub-roadbed. I like master modeler Tony Koester’s response as to why he uses ¾ plywood for his sub-roadbed “Because they don’t make 1” plywood!!”

10. Severe curves. This one slipped by me. I spent a large amount of time plotting elegant flex track curves for the visible sections of the track on my layout. Some how I rationalized using one section of a 15” radius curve on my main line to make a slight bend along the front of the layout. The bend as it turns out is actually quite severe and it will derail a train running at speed. I later (years later) realized that I had let this one slip in unnoticed by me even though I had stared at it every time I was been working on the layout. Advice: check and recheck those curve radii. Have an experienced train guy check as well.

I am now in the process of making a whole bunch of new mistakes...

Have fun,

[betsy662]

Since the 1970's, I have had numerous false starts, a couple of successes, and of course, my current layout is somewhat successful, what you see pictured here is what I refer to as the "Final Extension", final you say? Yes, for the house I'm living in now, which is a rental, we are looking for our own house, and this layout is designed to be taken completely apart, thats why this final extension is just that, final for the moment..........[8D][8D][8D][8]

[MisterBeasley]

I've just started my third, but it's my first as an adult. The trains lived in attics for 30 years, but now they're out.

I've learned that you CAN teach an old dog (me) new tricks. I've built benchwork I'm proud of, and now I'm having fun with foamboard. So, I'm much less apprehensive about learning new techniques for scenery, and painting and weather buildings.

Unfortunately, I've also learned that I may have been carting junk from attic to attic for the last 30 years. That old brass track - dumpster bound. But I'd really like to keep my old engines, even if it means spending more to upgrade them than they're worth. Like old friends, y'know?

And, I've learned that the Internet, and particularly this forum, is a vibrant, living community which is doing a lot for this hobby. Thanks to all who participate.

[wccobb]

At age 74,I've built a few layouts and I gotta add to what the older guys have said:
!) The ole eyes just ain't the same, and the larger scales are much easier to work with.
2) With stiffening back, etc. every duck-under becomes an increasing challange.
3) Same with reach. The deeper the scenery, the more difficult.

If becoming a Senior Citizen ain't within your sights, ignore this. IF it is, you might give these suggestions some thought.

[DigitalGriffin]

I'm going to build my first around the room multi layer layout soon. Heck this will be my first layout period. As I only have room for one layout, I have to get this one right.

Am I worried? Darn right I am! I have tight tolerences and I'm worried the wall won't be straight, or something else will disasterously will go wrong. Or maybe I'll cut a plywood sheet crooked with my circular saw. Or that I may even figure the height needed for my hidden track wrong! I'm also worried about the tortoise installs.

I almost want to hire someone to do the benchwork for me! Even with all the books, I can still think of a million things going wrong.

~Don

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

....That old brass track - dumpster bound.....

Mr.B, don't scrap that brass! Use it to model abandoned tracks or paint it a rust color and make a scrap pile on the layout somewhere near the railroad shops.

[cwclark]

thanks to aggrojones and his ability to dig up old bones , (I asked this question 2 years ago) I thought i'd reply to it again...one thing i would like to add to the initial comments of this post is that you can still learn stuff in this hobby even after doing it for as long as some of us have been in the hobby...i've found some new ways of scenery building..the new plaster cloth used to build mountains and hilsides is a godsend...no more fuss with the mess of plaster drying to my hands and ending up in places i didn't want it to stick to using the old plaster and newspaper strip method....another thing i've learned is mastering an air brush..i'm starting to get good with it..weathering as well as painting that favorite locomotive in a black widow paint schemes and the like...another thing I learned that has improved my rolling stock performance is the inhanced performance by switching to metal trucks...they run smoother than the plastic ones and the track doesn't need cleaning so much....I also have to give some credit to joe fugate...his mini clinics on here have taught me different ways of tackling scenery techniques using variations of some of the old techniques incorperated with new ones...so what i would like to add to my original post is that the MRR forum is another great source for learning the how to's involved in this hobby in better and more efficient manners...chuck

[tomikawaTT]

Not counting Lionel 027 on the living room rug, I've been involved with five club layouts and have started a dozen of my own.

Lessons I have learned?

1. Operation is addictive. As soon as the wheels begin to turn, construction progress slows dramatically!

2. Derailment-resistant trackwork is a matter of careful tracklaying and adhering to standards.

3. Try new ideas. Some of them actually work!

4. "Good enough" isnt. Don't hesitate to tear out and rebuild.

5. Finishing a layout is the impossible dream. There's always something to add, change or subtract.

[Anonymous]

I have built around three layouts and I have learned a few things from them

1. No matter how big you go, you always want to go bigger

2. Model trains are literally like the heavy drugs because once started it is so addicting and you will make many many purchases that are not needed and not afforded at the time but you will sacrifice something needed in home or life for a new train or something train related. LOL

3. Trains will always be on your mind no matter what you are doing or where you are. You could be at work in an important meeting and on your mind is a "where can I go railfanning this year" LOL

[GAPPLEG]

Garsh, In the 70's I built my first N scale layout, it was 8 x 12 Then I moved, When I looked at building my second layout I realized more was available in ho at that time. So I switched to HO. Then I moved. GEts redundent, Built a small ho layout in my third place 8x10 , then I moved, I now vow to die in this house. Present layout was started 2 years ago, 12x16 , track work , track work , trackwork , get it right first.

[jecorbett]

My current one is my third. The first was a 6X8 in a spare bedroom of my apartment. It was an island layout with a double sided backdrop. I learned the importance of good benchwork because this was a real wobbler. I learned how to lay track and ballast it and got my first expierience with building structure and rolling stock kits.

The second layout was in an 11X28 section a basement in my first house. There was an extension to a staging loop into the other section of the basement. I learned a lot about wiring blocks for DC control, reverse loops and turnouts. The big thing I learned was the importance of starting with a track plan with operation in mind. I was more concerned with creating scenic features for the trains to run through than with operations in mind. The track plan was more of an evolution. Halfway through construction I did some major surgery and completely changed the schematic. I finally got a completed mainline with about 75% of the scenery in but the operating scheme was very unsatisfying and I lost interest in completing it and went on about a 10 year hiatus from the hobby which ended when I moved into my current home.

I am now on my third and hopefully last layout. This is the one I hope they find me slumped over at room temperature, but not for at least 30 years from now. I think I have done a lot right with this one. The benchwork is rock solid and the schematic should allow for interesting operations once it is reasonably complete with all the rolling stock and motive power I plan. I have learned the basics of DCC and am starting to pick up on some of the advanced features. I am still in the testing and debugging phase with the track work but have completed most of the scenery in the yard and engine terminal as well as some of the industrial areas. There have been a few minor mistakes along the way but overall, I am happy with what I have so far.

[dhilyer]

WOW!!! I didn't know that you could learn so much just by playing with trains.

I am trying to complete my first layout (HO, 4x8). Track is down, electrical is complete, trains are running. Scenery is coming together, still got to make the trees and plant them. Hope to begin structures this week. I am also in the "thinking" or preliminary stages of the second layout. Got some good ideas from the CSX and NS lines that intersect 2 blocks from my office. My first hurdle will be real estate. I am trying to negotiate a lease agreement with my wife for some room in our son's play room. Stay tuned for that outcome!!

What have I learned? Well, [#ditto] most everything from above. But most importantly, I have learned to take my time and do not ru***he RR. It will be there when I have time even if it is only 1 minute as I pass by going to another part of the house.

I have also learned that this forum is a bottomless barrel of knowledge. If you can't find an asnswer here it is because you haven't asked!!

[BigRusty]

In over 60 years, I have built 8 layouts. I learned all the trivial things you guys post about but the basics are 1. Do the room first. 2. Use open bench work. 3. Good trackwork, well supported with 3/4 inch plywood, 4. Under table multi track reverse staging loops. 5. Never put ANYTHING on the track that hasn't been thoroughly inspected for EVERYTHING, from lubrication to wheel gauge and coupler height. If it don't fit, you MUST NOT USE IT - until you fix it.

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomikawaTT

4. "Good enough" isnt. Don't hesitate to tear out and rebuild.

5. Finishing a layout is the impossible dream. There's always something to add, change or subtract.

Those two hit close to home. I am presently going to rip up a lot of track, not all of it, and I have to build and add switches. It never was really good enough. (gulp!)

In view of what I just stated, your #5 is self-evident.

-Crandell

[Texas Zepher]

I don't even know how to count "layouts". I had multiple HOs, an N, O, and G all at the same time. I had eight sitting in the garage once just to send to the local equivalent of toys-for-tots. And how does one count clubs and friends. Ones built for others for profit... Um maybe 40. Then there are all the experimental ones where track is just assembled but never perminantly attached.

I think it is most interesting that I've learned the opposite of what some other people have posted here. Just proves model train layouts are a very subjective and individual thing.
I guess I've learned that:
1. There is always more to learn.
2. Even things one has learned and knows are subject to change because of new materials, technology, economics, and/or more in depth and better research.

[SpaceMouse]

I've done half of a layout. IT started as a 4 x 8 but expanded to 4.5 x 8 because EZ track takes more room than Atlas. It is now 5 x 8 because I added siding.

1) EZ Track isn't. I've not run in almost 2 months now because I took everything apart to raise the scenery relative to the track so the docks are the right height. I should be able to run this weekend.

2) Plan for what you like not what you think the kids will like. What was going to be a Hogwarts layout has been converted to the Rock Ridge and Train City. It is working out better than it should considering I designed if for a different type of scenery/landscape. I only went from Modern England to 1885 America.

3) Anything can be changed, but it would have been nice to have planned it right in the first place.

4) I have a basement layout planned and the space allocated for it, but it seems like there is so much to do left on the 5 x 8 that I might not get to it for a long, long, long, time.

[Tom Bryant_MR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by areibel

...
Don't leave your precious model RR tools out for the wife to access, or she'll be cutting the dog's toenails with your Xuron nippers.

How true [:D]. I physically separated my tools into the "household" ones and the "RR" ones, however, what did I find the other night ... my RR nippers in the living room where they had been used to cut some wire for the shutters ... DOH!

-Tom

[Tom Bryant_MR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

...
1. There is always more to learn.
2. Even things one has learned and knows are subject to change because of new materials, technology, economics, and/or more in depth and better research.

When I started this about a year ago, I guess the experience was like getting hooked on drugs. I've pondered the "why is that" question for myself. "Why does this fascinate me so? "Will I burn out or give up on this?" An earlier comment; "... find me slumped over at room temp ...". I can only think of one other way I would rather go - [;)]

I think the two little items above from Tex says it for me. It just never ever gets boring. It is probably why there are so many here that have been at it for 10, 15, 20+ years.

What have I learned ? A lot; but have not even begun to exhaust the possibilities.


-Tom

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomikawaTT


4. "Good enough" isnt. Don't hesitate to tear out and rebuild.

This one I have to disagree with. It would be nice to build everything to craftsman quality but for someone building a large layout, it is not practical. If I was into building a small layout, then it would make sense to make sure everything on the layout was of the highest quality. Since I don't believe in reincarnation, I intend to complete my current railroad in this lifetime. To do that, I simply don't have the time to spend 80+ hours on every structure and piece of rolling stock to make it top drawer. At some point, you have to accept the good enough approach. My approach is to achieve a level of quality in relation to a structures distance from the front of the bench work. The closer it is to the viewer, the better it must be. But even then, I am not out to achieve contest quality. If and when I reach a point of completeness, as opposed to finished, then I can go back and start replacing the lesser quality items with better work. Until then, I have to be willing to accept OK. Now this approach does not apply to trackwork. That must be of a high standard from the start or it will be nothing but problems.

[icmr]

Ive had 3 layouts. I have learned that sometimes you need to plan and other times you dont. I have learned more than that but I cant list everything.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by icmr

Ive had 3 layouts. I have learned that sometimes you need to plan and other times you dont. I have learned more than that but I cant list everything.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

What I have learned about plans is you have to be flexible. Sometimes what looks good on paper doesn't look good or operate well in 3-D. Also, sometimes a better idea will occur to you once construction begins so you learn to adjust.

[Anonymous]

I have built at least 8 layouts, and no matter how much planning I put into it, when I am done, I always see a way to make the track plan better, ALWAYS!

[waltersrails]

2 ive built 4 ive had in my life. The last one was preety much bad beginer this one looks pretty real expect the bassesting could be a little better.

[tomikawaTT]

JECorbett:

When I said, "Good enough isnt," I meant that you shouldn't live with a problem. No prototype road would tolerate a permanent speed restriction because of kinked, sagging or misaligned track. Neither should a model railroader.

My work is a long way from museum quality! My only overriding standard is that trains have to remain on the rails unless removed by the 0-5-0. If they don't, the offending rolling stock gets pulled for inspection and adjustment and the offending trackwork gets a visit from the resident gandy dancer.

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomikawaTT

JECorbett:

When I said, "Good enough isnt," I meant that you shouldn't live with a problem. No prototype road would tolerate a permanent speed restriction because of kinked, sagging or misaligned track. Neither should a model railroader.

My work is a long way from museum quality! My only overriding standard is that trains have to remain on the rails unless removed by the 0-5-0. If they don't, the offending rolling stock gets pulled for inspection and adjustment and the offending trackwork gets a visit from the resident gandy dancer.

I think we are on the same page. Track work and rolling stock must perform reliably or be fixed immediately. Trying to live with problems will detract from the enjoyment of the hobby. On the cosmetic stuff, scenery and structures, we can live with less than top drawer. Unless one is blessed with exceptional skills, and I am not, it just takes to long to create a structure that meets our highest standards, unless we are building small layouts or dioramas. There has to be a compromise between what we would like to be able to do and what we have time to do. My standard is I can live with flaws as long as they don't jump out at you. That's why I spend a little more time on my foreground scenes and structures. Even those aren't going to be show pieces. The layout has to please me first and my eyes see the big picture, not the fine details. Most visitors will see things the same way. As for the rivet counters, if they want to look for flaws, they will find plenty.

[SOU Fan]

I have built one layout and have learned a ton of things(most of them the hard way)[banghead]. Too many to list.[:)]