"How many layouts have you built and what did you learn from them?"

[cwclark]

Gary...couldn't find the old one in a search but if anyone would like to reply to this topic... go for it!...i've built 5 layouts in the past...the first two were disasters...2 ovals on one sheet of flat plywood...the third one i build got a little better ...a large dogbone but it was still on flat plywood...the forth one I build was ok i started using risers and different track levels but the funds weren't there to put in quality equipment..lots of scratchbuilding made up for the lack of funds...the last layout i built was more for training purposes...i was a scoutmaster with the boy scouts and they offered a merit badge in railroading so I was also the merit badge councilor....the boys had certain requirements to meet which included, wiring, track ballasting, landscaping scenes, along with learning occupational skills for the real thing ( i relied on my two uncles that work for SP to do that part of the merit badge)..They did a real good job on building mountains, putting in bridges, ect...the room was too small for a large layout so it had it's limitations...so what did i learn?...1. take your time, do the job at hand well...take as long as you need to get the perfection the hobby demands... 2. read...read...read....get your hands on as many publications you can..you will be suprised at the stuff you think you know and find out differently what's in your head isn't always the case after you read something about a certain situation involved in the hobby....3. listen to the old timers...those that have done it for years and years get good at it and they are a rich source of knowledge...4. enjoy the hobby..if you get tired of one project...move on to something else...there are all kinds of different projects a person can get started on to break the monotony of doing one thing at a time...(just remember to eventually finish what you started..I don't like to work with plaster so i'll work with it until I grow weary of it then go do something else..like put a kit together or do some electronic project..then i'll get back to the plastering eventually...don't let one thing burn you out....and lastly...make lots of friends that are interested in the hobby...you can get good ideas and information when more than just "you" are involved....i'm off now to start my 6th and probably my final layout...wish me luck !....Chuck

[Anonymous]

Hi Chuck
I have built four of my own and been involed in the construction of three others
what have I learned
1 some form of open plan bechwork is what to build with
2 You stretch and pin old bed sheet over the open bit when enough track is down to run trains. (its cheaper than replacing breakages)
3 wiring is a KISS principle job
4 when my best friend and I start work on scenery together Don't forget the DANGER Tempremental artists at work. if it is quiet when we are working the scenery will be
[oops][tdn][censored][V]
5 for over all effect mass detail the front and slowly decrease level of small details as you move away from the viewer
6 use mini scenes to draw the viewer to where you want them to look
7 first scenery feature in is the back scene followed by the key identifier piece(what!! you dont have one??)
8 when you cannot think of any thing to do go and read the beginers book I garuantee you will learn something no matter how much you think you know.
9 keep to the chosen theme through out the line if it changes follow a natural progresion in the change
10 no mater what hapens there will be moment you think why am i doing this! these moments will pass.
That is what I have learned so far I have been at it a while and am still learning
oh and there is allways something you will have to get some one else to do because no mater how hard you try you will not get it right
dont be afraid to ask for help its only a hobby
regards John

[Anonymous]

I have Built 1and the most impotant thing I learned is buy locos an rolling stock that fit on your radius.I am currenly working on a second one.

[CBQ_Guy]

I've built, or help build, a mess of layouts over the past almost 50 years, and the one thing I've learned is that "a layout never is finished"!
(or is it ,"I never seem to finish what I start!"?)

[Anonymous]

hi CBQ guy
Some one once told me a layout ends up complete but never finished becaus ther is
always something that can be done to it.
regards John

[Anonymous]

I am working on my sixth layout. My layouts have taught me to be precise, especially with trackwork and electrical things. It has allowed me to exercise my first love of the hobby, scratchbuilding. I have learned patience with myself, I have learned to use the best materials I can afford. Perhaps the greatest lesson I have learned is to not ru***o get a project finished, but to take the time necessary to do it right. I have also learned modelling skills such as scenery building (God bless you, Dave Frary!). I have learned what makes a good layout for operation, and have developed a tremendous desire to have as much staging as I can logically include in my layout.

Keep steam on the mainline.

Tom

[Anonymous]

I have built 3, well I am on my third as an adult. What I have learned from the past ones is that the bigger the better but never big enough.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cwclark

Gary...couldn't find the old one in a search.... Chuck

Hi Chuck
Here's the link to the old thread I posted over a year ago How many layouts have you built and what did you learn from them?
Thanks for bringing it up again. There are a few new modelers just starting out and they really should read about others experiences so they don't make the same mistakes. But it's kind of like listening to our parents. Do we ever? No. Were they right? Yes.

Good luck with the new layout. I've seen part of it in your replies to Joe Fugate's FORUM CLINIC: Building realistic scenery. Looks great!
I highly recommend to anyone who hasn't visited Joe's Clinics or web site to do so.

[jrbernier]

I have built 4 HO layouts(3 in my parents house, 1 in my house):

1) 1965 - 5' by 9' layout based on MR 'Ma & Pa series. 18" radius curves.

2) 1966 - Same 5' by 9' frame with 'legs'. based on MR PH&C series. 22" radius curves and some early 'staging'. Good Layout, learned to 'operate'.

3) 1968 - Larger, 8' by 13' layout. Hand laid code 70 trackage(running with the big 'dog's). Layout never finished(went in the Army).

4) 1972 - back from the Army, tore down layout #3 and rebuilt on the same footprint. Code 70(Lambert/Shinohara) trackage, 30" radius, with a small branch line.

5) 1987 - New home/new layout. 25' by 20' area to build layout in. Present layout is still here, and is operational.

What I have I learned?

1) A basic 4' by 8'(or 5' by 9') layout is great for 'first time'. You really learn basic construction, and can then really gauge what your wants/desires are.

2) Try to settle on a good basic plan, and build it. Too many layouts 'change' as the owner discovers something new. There is nothing wrong with change, but one needs to complete that first layout. Too many times the first layout is junked as too many 'changes' have left their toll, and the builder wants to just start over. Many times they never get to the scenery stage, and even the follow-on layouts will suffer from this as the builder has not developed 'skills' in that area(or electrical, etc...).

3) Make a decision about what is going to be left on the layout and what will either be stored in the box or put on a display shelf. Too many layouts become a repository for the owners acumulation for engines/cars. the layout gets 'stuffed', and construction stops. I have a shelf system under my layout for storage and only 60+ cars and about 10 engines are on the layout. 30+ other engines & 300+ cars are stored. I know the layout cannot operate good if I stuff the tracks with cars.

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

My first trainset was a 4x8 table (Plywood) And it was a basic oval around the the whole track with some turnouts, and small time staging areas. No Roadbed though, also it had to run off tracks that stoped at the edge of the table ( The corner...) for extensions.

I hated the way that it was set up because it was not something I planed it was an exact copy out of one of the Model Railroader books( At least an exact copy of the track plane but not anything else...[V])
Plus wiring was next to impossible to accomplish...[xx(] The area was Under neath the table was closed off.... for good.[banghead]

SSSOOOO I took everything off the table exept the meeger scenery, and then took a Chainsaw to the table and cut it up...[(-D]
And used the 2x4 pieces of the old table to start the new set.
Which is done in diaramas... piece by piece. [tup]
I learned that Starting big (4x8) Is not the best way to go sometimes ( especially if your a newbie to model railroading. and a small start (2x4 or 3x4 Point A to B Diaramas are better... at least for me!
[:0]Oh and I almost forgot USE ROADBED! It makes too much noise with out roadbed...[D)][:D]

[TurboOne]

I built two layouts. One 27 years ago, one 2 months ago. Both are 4 x 8 plywood. Track nothing else but scenery.

I will expand the new one to 14 x 8 this April. Add real scenery. It is kid friendly so my kids and their friends can play.

I learned that you can't build more than track on plywood in a day. Lots of work, but isn't that half the fun ??

Tim

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbernier
... Try to settle on a good basic plan, and build it. Too many layouts 'change' as the owner discovers something new. There is nothing wrong with change, but one needs to complete that first layout. Too many times the first layout is junked as too many 'changes' have left their toll, and the builder wants to just start over. Many times they never get to the scenery stage, and even the follow-on layouts will suffer from this as the builder has not developed 'skills' in that area(or electrical, etc...).

yes...yes...YES!!!

I'm battling the demon of indecision as I try to build Layout #3. I used Abracadata software to generate a workable track plan, printed it out, planned the wiring etc. ---
and now I keep thinking "Hey wouldn't it be even better if...[whatever]". That's when I need to remind myself of a closing line in a popular Kenny Rogers song ("The Gambler"):

"There'll be time enough for [changin'] once the [construction] is done[:-^]"

[vsmith]

Beyond the prerequisite kids oval on a 4x8 sheet of plywood...

3, one 24x48 N layout, one 24x48 HOn30 layout, and one 18" x 24" HOn30 layout...all never finished. I hate scenery, I got so dam frustrated at the scenery process each time. I let myself beleive that finishing the layout was the most important part of model RRing, got real burned out , cursing the process and trashed them all (actually the Northridge EQ introduced the 18 x 24 layout to the floor of my kitchen)

Nowadays I realize its the modeling that I truely enjoy, so yeah, I'm doing a layout, but if it takes me 20 years to finish ehh, thats OK. I'm in no hurry.

My layout exists only as a means to run my model creations on. If it never gets beyond the track on plywood phase, as long as I'm enjoying scratchbuilding and kitbashing, I'm good with that.

Dont ever feel than you HAVE to fini***hat layout, do what you can when you can, but never let it predominate you into forgeting what it is you truely like about your hobby, even if thats just letting them run on a bare sheet of plywood.

[jrbernier]

VSmith,

You make a very good point. A lot of folks are 'model builders' - They like to build models. Some folks are 'layout' types and get the most fun out of building nice scenes. The MRR press has been pushing the complete layout with hoardes of correct cars, lots of staging, and well decorated layout rooms.
I guess I fall somewhere in between and enjoy watching/operating trains on my layout. Truth is that last year I was into 'model building', and even when I am in the 'operate' fever, most of you running is just that - Watching a nice train orbit the layout while doing laundry....

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

I've built a total of seven N scale layouts in my time. Five were for me and two were for a friend of mine. With each layout, I applied experiences that I had learned from those before it. The last one that I built last year was really hard on me, so I doubt I'll build anymore. Unlike on all the others, I was wise enough this time around to build it so that I could change things around and go from one era to another if I want to in order to give me some variety.

[Anonymous]

I'm on my third; my biggest lesson was in the quality of my roadbed/track work. It isn't enough just to mark some lines and start laying track. Even if you plot your arcs, and calculate your grade transitions, it still comes down to time taken for simple precision with assembly and curves--especially with flexible track (I use lots of compound or decreasing radius curves)...otherwise I spend half my time following the trains around re-railing cars.

Oh, and it definitely doesn't hurt to spend some extra $$$ on higher quality construction materials. As dad always tells you, "ya get what ya pay for."

[oldyardgoat]

Dear Chuck,
I am on my fourth N-Scale pike. I did not follow the rules, being the 'lone wolf' that I am. The first was a 7x10 freelanced theme with center access. It was designed to be moved in sections. It was relocated to seven apartments in eight years, the last via a window. From that I learned many skills and got over my fear of scenery. The story of that experience became an article in the NMRA "Bulletin" in March, 1983.
My second effort was based on the Barstow-Daggett (CA) stretch of the ATSF (w/ UP rights). A divorce forced abandonment just as track laying was ready to start.
The third was the proverbial 4x8 based on the Barstow yard and was meant to be a learning platform to try skills and methods. This pike had to be cut in half, set on its side to re-work the wiring and plot the dissecting points, to get it into the room of my first condo. I also erected an overhead light panel for lighting. This layout was moved a third time when I married my wife. The two sections were each cut in half for expansion to a 4x12 in my garage. Then Key and Hallmark had the gall to produce my favorite steam engine in brass. My trackwork was a mess, ending the ten year life of that pike. I kept the light panel. I learned about planning and unforseen obstacles, and that I did not like yard operations in my scale, nor wiring. It's either wire it or tie a string to the front coupler. Oh, and maintenence vs. a garage location.
My current layout is a 4x12 with a 3'-6"x 8 extension. I used the L-girder framework from the previous effort, but had to raise the "ground" level about 12 to 16 inches for the extension to clear the wife's car. Some help from a sales lady (the guy just couldn't grasp the idea) at Home Depot solved the suspension problem. I have been working on this layout since 1992. I spent the first two years in planning. I am not a computer whiz, so I used Atlas' "Right Track" software. Its simplistic, but it works for me. I like first-class railroading with passenger trains and the whole bit. My minimum radius, except for one staging track, is 17". I just finished the lights on my CTC panel, after four years of putting it off. This is another freelance with a generic prototype theme. Everything is in the ordinary everyday scene. I decided I like watching the trains go through town. At present, I am preparing for my first open house on a layout tour in June, in conjunction with the Santa Fe Modelers (SFRH&MS) Convention in Pasadena.
This layout will be vacated next year when we move out of the area. The next will be my last in this rhelm. From this layout I have learned that the below level staging was my biggest mistake. I have had to cut several access hatches to reach mass derailments in the ten track staging area. I dabbled in 1-1/2 turn helixes, which can be accomplished without fancy supportwork. I use the basic 1/2" plywood (use ACX grade!) cookie-cutter method. The lower level base and the upper level base sheets meet to form the helix. One spiral works fine. The other had a heavy 2.5% grade on a 16" radius curve. This one had to be removed and replaced with a 17.5" r. curve and elevating a part of that staging section. In the beginning I also built a test oval into the plan, which had to be removed when the tight spiral was replaced. The next layout will have exposed staging, train order operation to minimize wiring (no CTC panel-but I'm proud of how this one turned out), linear track plan, and its own room prepared beforehand. I will take one finished plywood section with me to incorporate into the new pike. I also built my first kitbashed structure and model from field research. I also created the backdrop for this pike-a whole new adventure. I have learned to expand my horizons and discover new abilities with this layout. So don't be afraid to wade in and try new things-it can be fun, and mistakes are food for more ideas.

[selector]

Trainluver1, when you say that the last one was really hard on you, would you care to elaborate? Was it physically too demanding, or just stressful?

I have built only one, just since early January, an 8 X 11 in one corner of an unfinished basement. I was very green in skill development, but I had taken the time to do some research and figured out early that this would probably be my only layout while in this house (expected occupancy is 5-15 years). Also, my personality is such that I go crazy on a piece of work until it is done. So the layout is now essentially complete minus some weathering and a couple more residential buildings.

I have learned that I need to take more time to do things. My layout turned out very well, but it could have been better. Also, I learned to trust myself when i conclude that I should go on with a plan. I knew that a 4X8 layout would not satisfy me for long, either in the building or in the running. I needed 'mass' and variation in order not to get bored.

Probably the best thing I've learned is that I am not unique, stupid, fearful, incapable, or alone is this fantastic hobby. Many others are just as concerned about a next step, reading and pondering every bit as much, shopping wisely, and whistling to themselves while they do their favourite thing!!

It is very good to have you all with me.

Cheers, everbody.

[Anonymous]

I've built two layouts in the past ten years. The first was N scale, but I only got the track down. I was in college and started dating the my wife, so trains kinda took a back seat and the layout was abandoned.
The second, and current layout is HO scale, which I always liked more anyway. It is about 80% complete. By complete I mean I've almost gotten the layout I envisioned when I started. I've gotten to do a lot of the things I always dreamed of being able to do with a layout. Funny thing is, now I've discovered how much more there is out there, things like helixes, DCC sound, etc., and I'm really not sure what the next step will be.
I'm toying with the idea of building a small, 4x8 portable layout to display in the local train shows.


What I've learned so far from building these two layouts:

1. A much greater portion of patience. Don't try to fly through everything. Take the time to build quality benchwork, properly lay and ballast track, foundational stuff like that.
2. Use quality materials.
3. Books are a great resource, but when it came to scenery I found that watching someone else do it really helped.
4. Don't get sidetracked by worrying about how my layout compares with someone else's. I don't need to incorporate something into it just because someone else did.
5. Wife holds the checkbook. Spend time with her too, or the RR budget will dry up reeeealy fast!
6. Use larger radii for curves. Almost all of mine are 18" radius, and it really limits the type of engines and rolling stock I can run. When I started I didn't care, but as time went on I started wishing I hadn't limited myself, and changing over to bigger radii now isn't really practical.
7. Invest in your RR in increments. Dumping a bunch of money all at once into buying materials and then changing your mind about the kind of layout you want results in either ebay or stuff collecting dust on your shelves.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Trainluver1, when you say that the last one was really hard on you, would you care to elaborate? Was it physically too demanding, or just stressful?

I have built only one, just since early January, an 8 X 11 in one corner of an unfinished basement. I was very green in skill development, but I had taken the time to do some research and figured out early that this would probably be my only layout while in this house (expected occupancy is 5-15 years). Also, my personality is such that I go crazy on a piece of work until it is done. So the layout is now essentially complete minus some weathering and a couple more residential buildings.

I have learned that I need to take more time to do things. My layout turned out very well, but it could have been better. Also, I learned to trust myself when i conclude that I should go on with a plan. I knew that a 4X8 layout would not satisfy me for long, either in the building or in the running. I needed 'mass' and variation in order not to get bored.

Probably the best thing I've learned is that I am not unique, stupid, fearful, incapable, or alone is this fantastic hobby. Many others are just as concerned about a next step, reading and pondering every bit as much, shopping wisely, and whistling to themselves while they do their favourite thing!!

It is very good to have you all with me.

Cheers, everbody.

I think it was just too stressful. But like they say, never say never...

[selector]

I find that fascinating, Tainluver. I will not continue to press you for details. It is just that I felt driven, almost compulsive about getting mine done, and there were times when I was getting irritable, feeling overhwelmed, and generally numb about the magnitude of what I had undertaken. I was most definitely stressed. Luckily, I persevered, had the time, and the $ (sort of) to see it through. I can now breath.

Thanks for replying. And (never) is unutterable....I agree. [^]

[Train 284]

I have built 4 layouts, 1 N scale and the others HO. The N scale was a 4x8, but quite detailed, It fell over however and was damaged beyond repair. Next, I built a HO layout I did not like the first two designs so I tore it down and started over again twive. I think the biggest things I've learned is that you must have a lot of patience, oh and all the needed funds!

Matt

[Anonymous]

I'm on my first layout, nothing big, just a 4x8 with a T at one end for east/west staging. I'm working very slowly to avoid mistakes and the things that I found intimidating arn't so tough after all. I just carefully plan my next steps, and not rush into anything. What I learnt? It's not so difficult, just give it a try and learn from your mistakes.

[areibel]

I've built 3, well 3 1/2 if you count the current project- What did I learn?
Layout #1, HO, 4 by 8 mid 1970's- no more brass track, and no more AHM engines!

Layout #2, HO, 4 by 8, early 1980's- You might think there are more important things than trains, but they really aren't!

Layout #3, HO, 12 by three with an island, mid 80's- Dummy! You shouldn't have destroyed all that hard work from layout #2!

Layout #3 1/2, TT scale, 8 by 12 "L" shape, still under construction- I've learned several things-
OK, some things ARE more important than trains ( wife, kids).
But don't buy a house that might be big enough, it won't be!
Once a damp basement, always a damp basement.
What is considered a kit in one scale ain't even close in another.
Don't leave your precious model RR tools out for the wife to access, or she'll be cutting the dog's toenails with your Xuron nippers.
Kadee coupler springs can fly quite a ways!
Sometimes you are your worst critic, and most importantly
Quit being so danged serious, this is supposed to be fun!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

I find that fascinating, Tainluver. I will not continue to press you for details. It is just that I felt driven, almost compulsive about getting mine done, and there were times when I was getting irritable, feeling overhwelmed, and generally numb about the magnitude of what I had undertaken. I was most definitely stressed. Luckily, I persevered, had the time, and the $ (sort of) to see it through. I can now breath.

Thanks for replying. And (never) is unutterable....I agree. [^]

No selector. You're not pressing. I don't mind telling you the whole story. Pull up a chair...

The fact is, I have both allergies and asthma real bad, and any time I had to do any sanding or painting, I had to either hold my breath or put on a clumsy resperator that fed me fresh air.
The work schedule I was on at the time only allowed me a couple of hours of work time a day, and I was jus too busy on weekends to fool with it at all.
I'm one of those people that doesn't like anything like that hanging over my head, and want to get in there and get my projects done as fast as I can-but do a good job too...
I've always been like that-even as a kid.

trainluver1

[Don Gibson]

FOUR, & the importance of GOOD TRACKWORK.

[SP9811]

four, and in a month I'll be moving into a bigger place so im gonna add on to the pike I have now

[ukguy]

Selector, I have been kind of following your progress as you seem to be on the same sort of schedule as me, get it started, work as much as you can and get it finished. Alot of what you said ealier also relates to me and the way I have been working. Most of the areas involved are new to me also.

Ummmm how do I do a quote box, I cant find it in the help section.....

Selector Quote.. ""I have learned that I need to take more time to do things. My layout turned out very well, but it could have been better. Also, I learned to trust myself when i conclude that I should go on with a plan. I knew that a 4X8 layout would not satisfy me for long, either in the building or in the running. I needed 'mass' and variation in order not to get bored.""

Anyway, the reason for the post is that I havent seen any pics of yur progress to date. Do you have any? Are they online? Can you post some?

Many thanks,
Karl.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ukguy

.. Ummmm how do I do a quote box, I cant find it in the help section.....Karl.

Karl
For the quote box, start with

and end with [\quote] However with a forward slash instead of a backward slash like I've shown.

There is more information about fromating text under FAQ (near the search box above).

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