Multiple Locomotives with sound on one layout.

[selector]

Oops!. Yes, I did mean that, Rex. Thanks for the correction. [^]

(sheesh) [:I] No more coffee for Crandell.

[rexhea]

I agree with Andy that it is a matter of opinion and mine happens to be pro-sound. Of my modest roster of 14, all are sound with the exception of 2 switchers and 1 Geep. Yes, many running at the same time can get on your nerves if you are having a bad day or you are trying to concentrate on a complex switching movement, just simply mute the locos and go on. The added realism of having sound when we want it is well worth it.

I also agree that we have a tendency to turn the volume up to loud when we first get them and it is impressive to our guests. But, soon we realize that it is not necessary to have an ear splitting bell and start adjusting down to a more suitable volume.

FYI Selector: I think you meant to write F9 for shutdown sequences. F6 is used to bring them back up from shutdown. [;)]

REX [:)]

[selector]

The QSI decoders (my only experience) have a three-stage shutdown on my Hudson. If I don't want to run the loco for some time, I am instructed to press button "6" twice on my Digitrax DT400 hand paddle. That places the loco on disconnect, press twice again for standby and the dynamo will wind down, lights go off, and the steam effects lull a bit. A third double press on #6 puts the loco into total shutdown, and it goes silent. Of course, I can always just hit the mute button (F8), and sound will decrease to whatever you set (highest is 50%).

[Sperandeo]

Hi Simon,

I'm fortunate enough to get to operate Bill Darnaby's Maumee Route layout fairly often. Bill has a large roster of steam locomotives, all sound equipped, and he's been adding sound to a few diesels too over the last couple of years. I thoroughly enjoy it, and don't think the sound ever gets annoying or distracting.

I've observed, however, that Bill sets the CVs on his Soundtraxx decoders so that locomotives are silent until selected by a throttle, and his decoders turn the sound off automatically if an engine hasn't been used for several minutes. He also switches off the power on his roundhouse and staging tracks, primarily to reduce the load on booster power supplies, but this also has the effect of limiting the number of engines emitting sound at any given time. And Bill sets the volume of his decoders low enough so that you hear only engines that are fairly close, and not those at the other end of the basement. Hearing engines coming toward you and going away is part of the fun, and you wouldn't be able to appreciate that if individual engines were too loud.

I think that at least some people who say they find sound annoying have been around layouts where the volume was tuned up too high, but obviously this is all a matter of opinion. My opinion is definitely pro-sound.

So long,

Andy

[rrinker]

John - do you have any pictures of your Stewart B-unit installation? I have one of those dummy B's and was considering putting in a Soundtraxx decoder and, since there is a lot of space in there, some BIG speakers.

--Randy

[simon1966]

Antonio, I am actually considering a plan B. As a result of the thread on Soundtraxx, It got me to thinking and realizing that I can get a CB&Q E unit from BLI for not much more than the sound decoder from Soundtraxx. If I then sell the P2K I am probably even, with a much safer solution. I did not realize at the time that the Soundtraxx have motor buzzing issues and don't work on DC, so the BLI solution is a lot less work, for what I suspect will be a better solution. I may actually put this on hold to see if anything ever happens with the Tsunami!

[AntonioFP45]

Simon,

Please post your results after you install the sound in your E unit. If the Tsunami is not out by August, I'll go ahead and use your alternative or a DSX setup.

By the way, which horn are you selecting?

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hey Simon!

I totally agree that sound can be annoying when turned up.

When I visited a club layout a month ago. Several sound equipped locos were running. I noticed that most of them had the sound turned, low. These were the units that were fun to listen to.

BTW: Which decoder are you installing on your E unit?

Sorry for the delay in resonse, I've been out all day in Miami actually working for a change (except for a side trip to "Ready to Roll" [}:)] )

I am planning to use the Soundtraxx DSD-LL100LC This is a direct light board replacement install for the P2K E unit. I have not ordered it yet, but have heard that it is a decent solution.

[AntonioFP45]

JohnColley's post reminds of something that I'm very much looking forward to. The new Tsunami decoder, as well as future sound decoders are supposed to be equipped with a "Reverb" feature. That really would be a nice effect, especially on club layouts and in tunnels. (Now, if Soundtraxx would just hurry up!)

In real life when we hear trains at or in a town, the sound can be heard bouncing off of buildings, hills, and even mountains. This is why I especially enjoyed listening to the old GE U-Boats so much. At full throttle, the GE FDL series diesels, which were already loud, could be heard "chugging hard". [tup]

Sorry, I slipped down memory lane.......again! [sigh][8D]

[selector]

I'm in full agreement. I was amazed and very pleased with my new BLI Hudson early in January. I think it was on the second or third of my short runs with the thing that I turned to The Boss and said, "I'm turning the volume down; it's too loud." The look of gratitude on her face confirmed my conviction.

Happily, most steamers quieten down after they have sat for a minute. So, I leave the volume at around 60% on all locos, and it is fine with one or two moving.

[WilmJunc]

Unfortunately for my bank account, I am addicted to locos with sound. The key is to balance the volumes so that some are not drowning others out. The BLIs for example are extremely loud and need their volume turned down.

I would love to have sound in all my locos. Unfortunately, some of the small switchers do not have enough room for speakers.

As far as getting as close as possible to the prototypes, they all have sound.

[jfugate]

I agree with what's been said on here ... keep the sound low and multiple units on the layout with sound is not a problem. With a walkaround layout design, the engineer can stay close to his loco and can hear it just fine.

Sound is addicting ... not all the units on my layout have sound .... but once a visiting operator runs a sound equipped lashup, the response is always the same: "You need sound in *all* your lashups. When I got the next lashup and it didn't have sound, I felt like something was wrong with it!"

By the way, I just add sound to a unit in the middle of the lashup, and that's enough to make it seem like the whole lashup has sound for diesels. That way roughly 1/3 of my locos need to have sound, and I can economize on those pricey sound decoders.

The other thing to watch out for is MRC sound decoders. They don't have any way to control the volume except to hardwire a resistor into one of the speaker leads ... which is unfortunate. Soundtraxx has volume control, mute, and an automatic sound on sound off when you address the loco.

[johncolley]

That's why system volume is a controllable function guys. Think about what you are hearing. What do you hear at 100 ft, 1000 ft? Adjust each unit separately then put them together to see if you need to tone it down some more but still have the effect. I have a pair of E7's from BLI I run about 40-50% volume. Ditto my 4 unit Stewart FT ABBA with one B a dummy with soundtraxx decoder, 2 woofers, and a tweeter. The 3 powered units have digitrax dh163d decoders and it is a sweet running/sounding package. Also remember that sound bounces off drywall and increases when bounced out of a corner. Brush and trees are a great excess sound absorber and don't be afraid to put some soft foam absorber between the track and walls in hidden trackage such as tunnels and staging.

[twhite]

I've got about 7 BLI steamers, and I've turned the sound down on all of them (I'm DC, not DCC). I also have a built-in Soundtraxx system on the layout with under-the-layout speakers situated at several points that I use with my non-sound brass. I love watching steam and I love HEARING steam, so my garage isn't the quietest place in the world when I'm out running the trains. But I do agree, the sound-equipped locos tend to be set really LOUD when you first run them. I've got two BLI Pennsy M1's and a Pennsy J-1 and occasionally, just for fun, I'll stage a Pennsy triple-header, and hoo-boy, does THAT take the roof of of the garage! But all in all, I'm happy that sound is now available.
Tom[:P][:P]

[jrbernier]

cacole,

QSI is NOT selling aftermarket units for HO. Only units for 3 rail are offered. Look at the QSI web site:

http://www.qsindustries.com/New%20Train%20Page/train%20page.htm

scroll to the bottom of the page....

Jim Bernier

[rrinker]

Step 1 for all three of the QSI locos we have aquired so far is to TURN DOWN THE VOLUME!

The toy train crowd seems to like things LOUD so as shipped the volume on these things is always at the max. Not only does cutting it back allow you to actually talk to someone while the locos are running, it also greatly improves the sound quality.
Once the master volume is cut back, it's time to fiddle with the individual sounds, so that, for example, the air pump sound doesn't overwhelm the horn. Under DCC, adding momentum to the Atlas Trainmaster resulted in some great sounds as the train gets moving.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

It'd be cool if a DCC company could offer something like the QSI Quantam soundsystem for installation in DC or DC/DCC ready locomotives. That way us DC guys could have some fun with sound in locomotives other than BLI and Lionel!

Atlas and Life-like (P2K) also make sound locos with the QSI sound chip.

In fact, their diesels are better than BLI's, IMHO. Not only are the details and drives better, but Atlas and P2K have taken pains to use more accurate sounds.

And if you are a steamer type, P2K is coming out with them in sound, too !!!

You might give them a look over.

I have the P2K RI E6A with sound, and love it.
But for now, I plan on only my passenger trains having sound locos.

That might change if QSI ever does put out separate sound chips at a cheaper (than Soundtraxx) price. But to convert most of my fleet (50 locos) to sound right now would be too expensive.

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Simon!

I totally agree that sound can be annoying when turned up.

When I visited a club layout a month ago. Several sound equipped locos were running. I noticed that most of them had the sound turned, low. These were the units that were fun to listen to.

BTW: Which decoder are you installing on your E unit?

[simon1966]

Antonio.....[bow]

OK, it is a year later and suddenly this topic re-appears at the top of the list.

Since I posted this last April, I have added a 2nd BLI steamer, an E7 and a switcher. I am also about to install a Soundtraxx into a P2K E7.

So what has been my experience. I think it can be summed up with what happened last weekend. I let my 2 boys (7 and 5) have free reign on my layout. (Don't worry, they really understand about being careful and I trust them). I noticed that it was silent. I asked my 7 year old what was going on. "It is too noisy Dad" was his reply and he had muted all the sound locos. I have reduced the volume on all the locos even more and will see if this makes it better. I think that the key is sound in moderation. Keep the volume down, especially on the diesel units.

[Anonymous]

I have some sound equipped engines BLI N&W A and LIONEL Veranda and also some that are not delivered yet: ATHEARN Challenger and BLI AT&SF Northern.

Locomotives with sound are no goal for me. When they run it often sounds not realistic. The sound of a rolling train is often louder than the engine! In a depot a sound equipped engine is a good eyecatcher (also earcatcher I think) but when there are more than 2 or 3 you sometimes only hear a undefinable "NOISE"!

And when you present a layout on a fair - sound is bad!

I remember a fair here in Germany few years ago.
Our clublayout was displayed side by side with a LGB layout. Most trains with sound. A car with bleating sheeps. I will never forget this.

Our layout was a hand controlled point to point modul layout. Such a layout needs a lot of concentration, in fact when vistors ask you. Controling and answering isn´t easy at the same time. And we were only a handful members!

After 2 hours the sound made you excited! Since that day I´m no sound fan!

[cacole]

To 4884bigboy -- you can purchase QSI sound systems from QSI themselves. I believe they are located somewhere in Oregon. They have a Web site -- just type "QSI" in Google. But be forewarned -- they are EXPENSIVE . I'm sure the manufacturers get a hefty volume discount, but if you or I want one as an individual modeler, they are close to $200 each!

[Anonymous]

A lot of this depends on what you are trying to do.
Yes, sometimes when I'm operating, a sound equipped engine is a neat thing to have, and 5 or 6 of them operating at once is even neater.[:D] At least until it gets to the point that nobody can hear the dispatcher over the din!!!! [;)]
However, when I'm working on something, especially something tedious, Or if I am trying to explain something or get and explaination or even a casual conversation, idling engines can be a real distraction.[:(!]
This is why the DCC gods gave us function 8. [(-D] Turn the sound off or on, depending on your needs

[cacole]

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post about the Cochise & Western layout -- the engines we run are Broadway Limited and a Lionel HO Challenger with QSI sound systems; several Bachmann Spectrum steamers with SoundTraxx systems, including two Shays; and an Illinois Central A-B-B-A Proto 2000 E-7 set with sound and dual speakers in all 4 units. Even with all that din, we don't find it confusing or irritating, and we get many oohh's and ahhh's at our open houses. The multiple sound systems actually help us keep track of our locomotives so we can avoid head-on collisions.

[AntonioFP45]

Snake,

I'm in the planning stages. Just about finished. Will be an "around the wall" type layout. Theme: small east coast town circa 1960. Host Railroad; Seaboard Coast LIne.
Hope to start construction mid-June.

I currently have a 9ft. long by 1 1/2 wide "Test track" shelf. Power Pack is an MRC 2500. It's an excellent unit. My shelf actually resembles a "module". Two track mainline with a "branch off leg" that leads to a branch line.

I test cars and locomotives frequently as I'm currently repairing and updating rolling stock (metal wheels, Kadees, weights, etc). I chuckle when visitors, who are not into trains carefully inspect it. My friend Cmarchand jokingly refers to my shelf as
"That little trolley line of yours!"

[AggroJones]

If my layout had multiple locomotives with sound, it would just become a head ache. But if your layout is so large, engines can run in different sound zones, then its fine. I've tried running 2 sound equiped locos at the same time on my layout, and all it seemed like was noise! It wasn't pleasant.

[Anonymous]

It'd be cool if a DCC company could offer something like the QSI Quantam soundsystem for installation in DC or DC/DCC ready locomotives. That way us DC guys could have some fun with sound in locomotives other than BLI and Lionel!

[Anonymous]

Antonio, If you've told us before, I don't remember, how large is your layout?

Simon GOOD question! I have a 5'x13' layout which I plan to run one freight , 4-8-4 steam, and one passenger , A-B-A Daylight, and would like to have sound. I too have wondered if the sound from more than one engine would be to much.

I would like to get BLI's Santa Fe 3751 when released. However, my Athearn PA-1's don't have sound and would have to add a Soundtraxx system in order to have sound for both. I wish BLI would offer their sound system for installation into another mfrs engine/car. In my case, I could put their diesel sound system in the B engine (dummy).

[orsonroy]

I've run on a couple of layouts that have all-sound equiped rosters, and I'm planning to do the same with mine. Right now, all I have are two of the BLI USRA Heavy Mikes, which I love having run at the same time. Listening to both of them on a doubleheader is really cool, and having multiple engines chuffing around at different parts of the layout is really neat.

Sound is a major part of railroading, as is their sheer size. I always thought that something was missing with steam modeling, and sound was it (OK, steam effects too, but those don't scale well). To me, noise is PART of railroading. If you want a really quiet model railroad, you should probably model electrics, which really don't make any noise at all!

One of the layouts I operate on is a VERY large two deck layout. All the engines have sound, and it's not annoying at all. Engineers are supposed to whistle and sound the bell at all the appropriate places and times, so you would think that there would be a lot of noise. There isn't. The volume is turned down so that you can hear the engine fine when you're next to it, but becomes part of the background hum when you're 20' or more away. And it's neat to occasionally hear a steam whistle in the distance, while you're running all alone down a 12 mile long model RR mainline!

[simon1966]

I am running my Mike on DC right now as I have not purchasd DCC. I anticipate making the jump to DCC by the end of the Summer. Understanding that you can lower the volume on the units so that the operator close to the loco can hear it without the sound filling the train room is very appealing. My 4 year old is a little heavy on the horn! MS train simulator through a sub woofer at full volume is enough to wake the dead. I did not want to get to the same situation in the train room! Thanks for the input. I guess we should have the NMRA produce a dB meter and scale so that we can produce scale sound for the trains.

[AntonioFP45]

Good posts and info guys.

I know this sounds ambitious but I intend to have sound in the majority of my locomotives; starting with my HO carbody and cowl units as they're a little roomier to work in.

Sample Scenario: I think that it would be very satisfying to see and "hear"

~On the mainline, two GE U-Boats struggling with a heavy, phosphate hopper train.

~On a hot summer day around noon: An SW9 switcher busy performing it's industrial chores in town. It's horn "tooting" frequently for the numerous crossings and pedestrians in the area.

~Sitting at the service facility; a line of EMD six axle locomotives standing by. The distinctive "whine" of 645 series turbocharged engines idling can be heard. They've been serviced and are ready for the next assignment, (the wait won't be long!)

~Later, we see a pair of E7s with a long distance streamliner. She's 10 minutes behind schedule. Two short "honks" from the lead unit's Wabco horn, and she's pulling out of the station... picking up speed towards the permissible 85 mph.

With the volume set "low" scenes like this, IMHO, would be the equivelant of a meal in a fine restaurant!

Simon1966 and everyone else: If you like it, steam or diesel, and can do it, enjoy it!!!! Some of us have been waiting years for dreams like this to reach reality.

Enjoy your sound, and please keep us posted on your progress and decisions!