Multiple Locomotives with sound on one layout.

[simon1966]

Well TZ, since I started this thread 2 years ago it documents fairly well my life so far with DCC and sound. When I opened the thread I had one BLI steamer and was still running DC. My Digitrax Zephyr now has a booster, extra throttles and a PC interface for using the JMRI software, essential IMO if you want to run sound and get it to the way you want. My roster includes 2 BLI Diesels, 2 BLI Steamers, 1 Soundtraxx Diesel and 2 Soundtraxx steamers. All have their volumes well down as life with sound at full volume soon becomes a headache. My oldest boy still tends to turn off the sound and prefers to run silent. But, I really like sound. I like the extra realism. I like being able to use the bell and whislte in prototypical ways. I am looking forward to expanding with some of the new sound decoder offerings like the Tsunami, Digitrax and Locsound. My roster of locos is about where I want it to be, so I don't see myself buying many more locos, but any I do will either have sound installed or will have the option to install it. For example, I really wanted a Wabash Atlas Trainmaster Gold. I was never able to get one, so have the Silver version and plan on adding a sound decoder.

[BRVRR]

I am now up to ten sound equipped locomotives on the BRVRR. Two BLIs, a heavy Mike and a Hudson. Most of the rest have Soundtraxx LC decoders, but I do have one DSX for ALCOs and a couple of MRCs, steam and diesel. I also have steam and diesel Soundtraxx decoders installed under the table to give my non-sound equipped locos a voice. I seldom run more than three trains at a time on the 4' x 10' BRVRR, but right after Christmas, my grandson and I had four steam locomotives with sound on the mainlines at the same time. With the sound turned down to reasonable levels and scale speeds, the sound is not overpowering. [:D]

Here's a link to the photo from my website:

http://intergate.com/~acoates149/images/SNPF/FourEnginesC.jpg

My Zephyr has never even hiccuped power wise. I have several AB and ABA loco sets, usually one loco with sound and the rest of the units powered. Up to 7-powered units at a time and no power problems.[:D]

Check out my updated website. Many new photos of new and remodeled equipment and layout scenes. Link is below or in my signature.

http://intergate.com/~acoates149

I like sound, but I do use F8 or F0 (MRC) when I'm alone sometimes.[:I]

Incidentally, the Soundtraxx DSD100LC decoder (motor and sound) is available for about $36.00. I purchased several after Christmas at that price. With a good speaker and enclosure, you can add sound to a loco for about $45.00.[tup]

[Isambard]

We've just asked club members to keep the sound levels from their steam and diesel locos down so that they are not heard more than about eight feet away.
With three or four locos rumbling, chuffing, tooting, banging couplers, braking etc and with the rolling noise from metal wheels on fast moving trains it became too distracting for good communications between the dispatcher and the train crews.
[:)]

[MidlandPacific]

I went to see Howard Zane's massive layout a couple of months ago - fills a large basement, and entirely sound-equipped. When he turned on the power the locomotives in the yard nearest the staircase gave off quiet loco-at-rest sounds - air pumps, escaping steam, that kind of thing. He had turned the sound down so that it added to the impression (which I always have anyway with HO stuff) of a certain physical distance. I was an agnostic about sound until then, but it made a great impression.

[Texas Zepher]

It has been a year now since this discussion. With so many more people having locomotives with sound now it seemed like a good time to bring it up again and get some updated thoughts.... Has anyone changed their mind since they last posted here? How about all those to which sound is a new thing?

Since our Club brought this issue up, all the sound volumes have been turned down and we have had no complaints.

[AntonioFP45]

Tilden,

It sounds like you're having a lot of fun! [;)][:P][C):-)][tup]

[Tilden]

Sound is Good! Trains and train yards are noisey places. Of course in the confines of a layout, taking into account others who may not fully share our joy of trains, some adjustments are necessary. I run HO and have installed sound on at least six of my diesels with more to come. Unless shut off, (and the units can be shut off individually) all the sound comes on when you fire up the layout. Sometimes I leave all the sound on for awhile (turn the bells on all the units, you can clear the house) but I usuall run the sound only on the units currently in use. This might be three units. Two running the main and one switching. The newer sound units with a dozen sounds are great and one inch speakers are much better than 7/8" speakers.

[BRVRR]

I have three sound equipped locos on the BRVRR together with 20 or so others not so equipped. I often run all three of the sound equipped locos at the same time. (Three trains is almost the maximum allowable at one time on the 4x10-foot BRVRR). With the speeds and sound set at reasonable levels I don't feel it is overpowering or distracting. At 11:00 at night, my wife sometimes disagrees, however!

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey
Atlas and Life-like (P2K) also make sound locos with the QSI sound chip.

In fact, their diesels are better than BLI's, IMHO. Not only are the details and drives better, but Atlas and P2K have taken pains to use more accurate sounds.

With that thought, I would like you to comment on the P2K GP9 released a couple months ago. Specifically what do you think about the prime mover sound? What about the initial start up? I sensed no pain here at all.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

John - do you have any pictures of your Stewart B-unit installation? I have one of those dummy B's and was considering putting in a Soundtraxx decoder and, since there is a lot of space in there, some BIG speakers.

I've been experimenting and have several, I'll try to photograph them for you. Unfortunately I paint the whole thing flat black so they aren't going to photo too well.

In my best sounding unit, so far, I used a single 1 1/8" speaker. The speaker is mounted in one end of a straight PVC coupling. In the other end of the coupling I make the largest baffel I can with a capped pipe. The pipe is capped with a simple circle of sheet styrene. Place a small piece of foam in the inside end of the pipe to prevent sound from bouncing back off the cap (that could make it echo and boom). To determine the length of the pipe turn the sound on and slide the pipe in and out of the coupling until you find the most pleasing sounding resonance (unfortunately I found the best resonance sound at about 13" which is obviously way too long to fit in the B-unit!). I ended up making the pipe extend about 4" from the coupling. Glue the pipe into the fitting at this length. This is an end-firing speaker arrangement.

If you are doing this with an FT unit you may have to do something for the dynamic brake knotch that hangs down from the roof. Either cut a groove along the coupling or trim the dynamic brake area.

[WilmJunc]

Amendment to my information on the MRC decoder above:

The unit includes a pre-wired, pre-baffled speaker

[AggroJones]

This may be slighly off topic, but..

I've been informed the BLI Santa Fe 3800s, due August 2005, will have the option of no sound/DCC. Knocks $100 of that MSRP. Thats fantastic for people like me.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

I have been following ya'll on your sound systems,I have a MRC sound and power 7000 systems and I love it but want to get sound system to go in my engines,does any body no where I can get a sound system for under $100.00?

[^] OLE'IRISH[:)]

"SOUND FOR under $100"? 'Taint that cheap.

Since speaker Installation and Bafflling are so important, that's $100 or more to have it done - or you can learn to do it (I did). Trick is to get $100 worth of sound out of a $10 speaker.

Then there is the module ........ or pay $100 more for the engine, with sound installed.(Atlas - Broadway Ltd.) - A bargain.

OR, learn to go "Ding ding, Chug chug"

[jfugate]

Steve:

Excellent! This is a big improvement.

The one thing Soundtraxx still gives you then, is independent volume control on each sound. In my case, I found the bell to be way too loud so I have cut it way down. For those who worry about sound driving you nuts it is handy to have independent volume control on each sound.

Thanks for the update, Steve. This is great news about the MRC sound decoder.

[WilmJunc]

Joe:

You adjust the volume by changing one of the CV values (don't remember which one). The volume change is for everything. There were no independent volume changes available.

Steve

[jfugate]

Wilm:

How do you adjust the volume on the decoder, and can you indepently adust the volume on each of the sounds?

From what you're saying, it appears MRC may be correcting this almost boo-boo in their decoder offering.

[WilmJunc]

Joe Fugate:

A few weeks ago I purchased a sound decoder that was made by MRC. I don't know the model # at the moment. It cost under $80, and I can adjust the volume. It was recommended by my LHS. He said it was a recent release, and recommended it for use with an IHC 2-6-0 steam engine. He did not think that it was worth putting the more expensive Soundtrax decoder into an IHC. The combination has worked out. I have a steamer with sound for under $150.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ftwNSengineer

Accually I think Im more concerned with stuff like the additional load on the power supply[?]

ftw:

The extra load on the power supply is an issue, but not always in the way you may think. QSI sound decoders include a significant capacitor in them that needs to charge on initial track power up. This capacitor enables the sound decoder to keep the sound going even if the loco encounters dirty track., a nice feature that the current crop of Soundtrax decoders does not have.

However, that power up current sucking capacitor causes issues. The first is they jack up the power up current drain dramatically, so much so that certain boosters, particularly Digitrax boosters, may not power up at all because they interpret the sudden current draw as a short. There are some pretty decent workarounds to this problem at this point, but at first this problem took folks somewhat by surprise. See this page on Tony's Trains Exchange site for the results of their testing regarding this problem: http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/pshield-restart.htm

The other issue is the extra load drawn when the loco is running with sound. It's apparently somewhere around .1 - .2 amps for SoundTraxx and .3-.4 amps for QSI decoders -- according to tests made recently by Gerry Hopkins, MMR from Australia. See: http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=109

So at the moment, QSI decoders are current hogs and will cut the loco capacity of your boosters *in half* or more (in other words, a QSI equipped loco counts as two-three soundless locos). Soundtraxx decoders are much more forgiving, and when turned off (I use the packet timeout so they turn on and and off by themselves, so they only make noise when addressed) take almost no extra current. A Soundtraxx decoder counts as an extra half loco or so.

[jfugate]

Like most things, you get what you pay for on the MRC sound decoder.

It's biggest problem is there's no way to control the volume, short of hardwiring a resistor onto one of the speaker leads. You can mute the decoder if you press F8 twice.

Can't speak to how it sounds, but the volume issue is enough to make it worth it to spend a few dollars more for a DSD100LC from SoundTraxx. I am particularly fond of the packet timeout feature on Soundtraxx decoders. I have mine set so they automatically shut down after 60 seconds of not receiving any more DCC packets from the throttle.

And of course, with the Soundtraxx decoder, I can independently control the volume on *each* sound - very nice! With the MRC decoder, you better hope the overall volume you set with the hardwired resistor is right for all the sounds.

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oleirish

I have been following ya'll on your sound systems,I have a MRC sound and power 7000 systems and I love it but want to get sound system to go in my engines,does any body no where I can get a sound system for under $100.00?

[^] OLE'IRISH[:)]

http://www.modelrectifier.com/products/trainSound/product.asp?ID=1691&Subcategory=Prodigy%20DCC

MRC makes a sound decoder for under $80.00 I don't know much about it, but it is certainly the lowest cost decoder solution right now.

[red p]

Accually I think Im more concerned with stuff like the additional load on the power supply[?]

[oleirish]

I have been following ya'll on your sound systems,I have a MRC sound and power 7000 systems and I love it but want to get sound system to go in my engines,does any body no where I can get a sound system for under $100.00?

[^] OLE'IRISH[:)]

[red p]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

If my layout had multiple locomotives with sound, it would just become a head ache. But if your layout is so large, engines can run in different sound zones, then its fine. I've tried running 2 sound equiped locos at the same time on my layout, and all it seemed like was noise! It wasn't pleasant.

That may just be another part of realism,I work for a real railroad and the noise isnt pleasant

[trainwomen]

Hi from Australia,
I have been running sounded locos for a couple of years and currently have about 15 on the layout. I have naturally modified the volume to suit the room size (18ft x 12 ft) but couldn't imagine going back to silent running. I often run 5 or 6 locos simultaneously and just love the sound of a steamer struggling up through the deep cutting on the branch line. I use a NCE dcc system and like the flexibility it gives me. For me sound adds another dimension to model railroading - but when I shut the system down at the end of an operating session the silence is deafening.

[AntonioFP45]

CPPeddler,

Just my observation as a prototype railfan.

Outside of town where there aren't too many buildings, I can hear locomotive horns "faintly" about a mile away. The bell sounds which are "sharp" 1/3 mile away, while the prime mover sounds on modern units I hear "rumbling" about 1/8 mile away. Wind conditions are also a factor.

On a layout, other than a horn, if a locomotive is more than 10 feet away from me, I should barely hear the prime mover, or not hear it at all. That's my personal preference.

Hope this helps!

[CPPedler]

I like to hear these loco's that are fitted with sound. I have 5 Soundtraxx equipped diesels and a BLI SD40-2 and with some of the Soundtraxx decoders the volume was about right for me , but the BLI sound unit is turned right down , it was far too oppressive at the factory setting. What I would like to know is, how far away can a REAL loco bell and horn be heard.?? I accept that in a built up area or in mountains that the the horn would be heard perhaps further but in normal conditions,how far can it be heard??? Living in the U.K. , we don,t have horns like the U.S. and no bells. So if someone has the answers ,I would like to hear your views. CPPedler

[Anonymous]

It works great with DCC, you can control t he volume and what sounds are on when. I have tow sound equpped on my layout, and the LHS called a couple of days ago wiht an Atlas tha was on order, so I should have a pretty good sample whenever I get to town and bring that one home. Wiht the BLI and PwK I have, I'd much prefer the P2K's operation. However, I'm expecting a lot out of the Atlas since I run a couple non sound equipped ones and they are the smoothest quietest on the board..

Hope that helped,
Greg

[Callan89]

Yes, sound Is great.
I'm about to get my first sound-equipped loco, an SF Zebra striped SD24. At first I didn't like sound , but then, slowly it became smoother, better, and softer. My unfortunate first expirence involved A massive HO-scale bigboy, the volume ALL the way up. This was when I was a member at the Pleasanton Fair Grounds Club about a year ago. I was working on the layout, dusting, then WAM! [B)] WHOOOO WOO!! HISHHHHHH!!! Ker-KLUNK Ker-KLUNK! IT went past me at least 60/80+ dB! and worst if all, there was a jump in the track where i was standing, so the dartn sound started over again with that high pitched HISHHHHH! I was literally knocked to the floor! after that my ear was ringing for about 2 days! The only other (W)ringing I wanted to do was to the engineers neck! [:(!][}:)]Anyways, just here to tell the horror story to repeat this valuble message, KEEP THE VOLUME TO A REASONABLE LEVEL- [:D]thanks. Ahhh...sound [^]

[Anonymous]

I put sound in my P2K ABBAs. Now, I had just installed the decoder, I hadnt tried it yet. I took them out to a big local layout to run. I put them on the track and they started idling, it was a little loud, but not bad. Then, I gave a blast on the horn! It nearly made me deaf! and the guy's cat ran out of the train room faster than ive ever seen a cat run! Moral of the story. Turn your sound down.